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[PBY]

Well, if you read any of my posts you'd already know I specified it as being influential in sound (is there another kind of influential there that isn't periphery?). And all your points about collabos are moot because I -again already- specified that cross-genre collabos skyrocketed after Ye burst on the scene, and his subject matter melded with that of stuff like pop enough that it spawned a generation of artists that could easily do the same and get in on that pop money. Case and point: Drake and Flo-Rida wouldn't be on every other Rihanna and Katy Perry song and vice versa if it wasn't for the foundation Kanye laid. That shit happening in 2002? Nope. Like someone else said in this thread, everyone is watching what Kanye does next, whether they hate him or like him. They know from TCD and Graduation especially that what he does may be a gamechanger implicitly like it has been in the past. And they clearly haven't embraced him because he's not as cool of a guy as MJ was, Kanye was never a child-star from the start, Kanye didn't start in a genre that had the widest appeal, etc. etc. etc.


This is a good point against Kanye.

I would argue that those early rap legends which ppl highlight were INCREDIBLY influential, especially within hip hop. But they haven't had the evolution and longevity that Kanye has. What rapper can claim the switchups from CD to 808s to Graduation to MBDTF/WTT?

Kanye has continued to evolve and change, whereas the majority of those groups basically owned one lane, but didn't move past it. The closest I'd say would be Eric B/Rakim, and even they can't claim Kanye's longevity.


Also- no one is MJ. MJ is stadium worldwide status. Kanye is arena-tier. Different universes. But in terms of ambition, reach and longevity and influence, there is a lot of MJ in Kanye. I mean, who is closer? Serious question

 

[Jay Sosa]

So The Carter 1> Underground Kings?

Yep, by far

bruh get the entire fuck out of here. TM101 > wayne's entire discog. past and definitely future.

sn: GAF hates kanye so fucking much lol.

I love TM 101 but come on, Jeezy was then what Gucci is now, a mediocre(at best) rapper that is carried by his production. Wayne actually was nice back then while Jeezy had lyrics like:

Patty cake, patty cake, microwave
Suckas make a square, goddamn I'm paid (ha ha)
I'm so cool, but I'm so hot, and
I'm, I'm so fly, and you, you're so not (nope)

People actually jumped on the Wayne's the best rapper alive bandwagon (for two albums) while Jeezy was laughed at for being a horrible rapper by anyone who wasn't into trap rap. I remember vividly the amount of threads about how horrible Jeezy is on allhiphop.com.

So Kayne has more influence in rap than say Rakim, KRS, Chuck D, RZA, etc?

In the last ten years? As sad as this is yes he has. I bet most of these new rappers don't even know who the people you just mentioned are.

 

[codhand]

jay for example initiated more features and crosspollination of genre than Ye overall and earlier. you could just as well argue for artists like Public Enemy doing recording collabs with metal bands etc etc. furthermore your comparison overall is just terrible. the public and music industry have clearly not embraced Kanye in the same manner as they did MJ. not in any sense.

while i cant see jay going out to wisconsin to recruit justin vernon, i still think the mj comparison shit is bananas,

also the Less Than Zero soundtrack as evidence? that is just major labels initiating collabs as opposed to an artist who is actively seeking them out, and trying to challenge himself, not sure jay has challenged himself artistically, ever.

I love TM 101 but come on, Jeezy was then what Gucci is now, a mediocre(at best) rapper that is carried by his production. Wayne actually was nice back then while Jeezy had lyrics like:

 

[thabiz]

In the last ten years? As sad as this is yes he has. I bet most of these new rappers don't even know who the people you just mentioned are.

Over RZA? cmon.

 

[Detox]

Dr Dre changed the game multiple times, influence longevity? Look at the headphones. Kanye won't change the game anymore all he can do is meld genres, like mixing both types of trap or using 80s synths etc.

 

[codhand]

Over RZA? cmon.

yeah, rza would be the one whose influence continues to be felt the most, but krs?

Dr Dre changed the game multiple times, influence longevity? Look at the headphones. Kanye won't change the game anymore all he can do is meld genres, like mixing both types of trap or using 80s synths etc.

I'm waiting for Forbes to announce Dre has more money than Jay, not sure in reality if it's close, but it is starting to feel like it, between, dre's golden touch on new artists and 300 mill for selling Beats By Dre the company.

 

[enzo_gt]

Also- no one is MJ. MJ is stadium worldwide status. Kanye is arena-tier. Different universes. But in terms of ambition, reach and longevity and influence, there is a lot of MJ in Kanye. I mean, who is closer? Serious question

People are focused on Kanye being MJ. He's not. Nobody will ever be better than MJ, even if they by some magical objective measure are.

But I agree, I don't think anyone else can answer that question. I complained about rappers not having hunger in the past on GAF, and I don't think anybody is as hungry as Kanye is. Even if you hate what he's doing and think he's pretentious, the dude is on some permanent musical crusade. Few artists reinvent themselves that many times and stay relevant.

 

[PBY]

Over RZA? cmon.

RZA over the last ten years? I stan so hard for RZA but please.

RZA has had insane influence. He built up a whole culture within hip hop, and he developed a whole new sound.

I'd argue that Kanye has way more range than RZA though, and Kanye's own albums sonically span across more genres.

 

[codhand]

rza x james blake yall

#guitarcenterbeats never forget

 

[Rocket Scientist]

Listening to hate it or love it by The Game and Fiddy, reminded that there were some pretty great lines in there. Sick beat too.

 

[PBY]

rza x james blake yall

#guitarcenterbeats never forget

LMAO. I still can't get through that vid without laughing.

 

[codhand]

LMAO. I still can't get through that vid without laughing.

shit was worse than a mario paint beat

 

[enzo_gt]

Cross-posting from the Kanye thread: Kanye gets Donkey of the Day. Pretty much everything Charlamagne said is how I feel.

 

[thabiz]

But they haven't had the evolution and longevity that Kanye has.

Call me when Kanye is putting out albums 30 years from now.

 

[Jay Sosa]

Ah yes he also was one of the first: "I'm a Hustler and drug dealer and make music for the streets so it's ok if I can't actually rap" rappers. Can't blame him, still works today.

Over RZA? cmon.

The last few years? What has RZA even done the last 5 years or so that would count as influential? (serious question, I tend to forget things).

 

[PBY]

Call me when Kanye is putting out albums 30 years from now.

Have you noticed that rap icons are nowhere near rock icons? Why are the Stones still selling out, while rap legends can't sell out a goddamn stadium? Hate it or love it, but I really think that Jay Z and Kanye are the rap's first hope at achieving something close to that. Wu Tang is close, but they aren't at that rock legends tier.

 

[The Return of]

Yep, by far.

Fuck outta here. Most Known Unknown was hot as hell too.

I ain't even going to join this Ye discussion lol

 

[codhand]

What has RZA even done the last 5 years or so that would count as influential? (serious question, I tend to forget things).

kinda hard to compare, as rza is on his "book & score shit"

one of the first: "I'm a Hustler and drug dealer and make music for the streets so it's ok if I can't actually rap" rappers. Can't blame him, still works today.

Was anyone before him in this regard? serious question.

 

[cdyhybrid]

Those rock legends had like a 30 year head start though.

 

[Esch]

Well, if you read any of my posts you'd already know I specified it as being influential in sound (is there another kind of influential there that isn't periphery to the music itself?). And all your points about collabos are moot because I -again already- specified that cross-genre collabos skyrocketed after Ye burst on the scene, and his subject matter melded with that of stuff like pop enough that it spawned a generation of artists that could easily do the same and get in on that pop money. Case and point: Drake and Flo-Rida wouldn't be on every other Rihanna and Katy Perry song and vice versa if it wasn't for the foundation Kanye laid. That shit happening in 2002? Nope. Like someone else said in this thread, everyone is watching what Kanye does next, whether they hate him or like him. They know from TCD and Graduation especially that what he does may be a gamechanger implicitly like it has been in the past. And they clearly haven't embraced him because he's not as cool of a guy as MJ was, Kanye was never a child-star from the start, Kanye didn't start in a genre that had the widest appeal, etc. etc. etc.


This is a good point against Kanye.

No. stop. You dont have any data or evidence about collabs being caused or correlated with kanyes rise from the underground. there isnt even anything in his body of work circa 2002 to indicate this.... I would put Timbo and Pharrell over him in that regard.You say it was Kanye, fine. it was Jay Z. after vol 1 he was doing increasingly larger amounts of work outside the genre, on their own and his projects. No other hip hop artist had the same rapport outside the genre in terms of actual work done. i have literally no idea how youre attributing this to Ye.

 

[PBY]

kinda hard to compare, as rza is on his "book & score shit"

Top 3 song on that soundtrack was a Yeezy joint.

Timbo and Pharell over Yeezus in terms of influence? Oh gawd boi. Influence =/= collabos.

 

[Detox]

Criticising Jeezy's lyrics doesn't work, put Rakim, KRS, Daddy Kane, Nas and Jay in a room give them the beat for thug motivation and they won't be able to make a better song. No lyricist can get that motivation like Jeezy, it's martial music for the trap and by extension life in general if you can relate.

 

[thabiz]

Criticising Jeezy's lyrics doesn't work, put Rakim, KRS, Daddy Kane, Nas and Jay in a room give them the beat for thug motivation and they won't be able to make a better song. No lyricist can get that motivation like Jeezy, it's martial music for the trap and by extension life in general if you can relate.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6_yU8RoxVpo

 

[Jay Sosa]

Fuck outta here. Most Known Unknown was hot as hell too.

I ain't even going to join this Ye discussion lol

Well It's just my honest opinion, sorry..

Well at least the ye discussion isn't about how we rank his albums.

Was anyone before him in this regard? serious question.

Not to that extent. I mean it's an incredible stupid and ignorant thing to say but in a genre where most of the sales come from image and not actual talent it's a good marketing strategy.

 

[PBY]

Kanye cycle spilled into the OT and everything went to shit.

 

[enzo_gt]

No. stop. You dont have any data or evidence about collabs being caused or correlated with kanyes rise from the underground. there isnt even anything in his body of work circa 2002 to indicate this.... I would put Timbo and Pharrell over him in that regard.You say it was Kanye, fine. it was Jay Z. after vol 1 he was doing increasingly larger amounts of work outside the genre, on their own and his projects. No other hip hop artist had the same rapport outside the genre in terms of actual work done. i have literally no idea how youre attributing this to Ye.

Well, neither do you have any more than I've provided. Where is the burden of the proof?

Plus, if this was really attributable to Jay, why did it take so long after and post-Kanye and post-Graduation for the bubble gum rapper lane to appear and allow more collabos in the pop space? The content of Kanye's music, which is pretty different from Jay's outside of some occasional themes of bravado, is what allowed that IMO. Kanye's image also helped facilitate that in a way I don't see Jay doing.

 

[The Return of]

Well It's just my honest opinion, sorry..

Well at least the ye discussion isn't about how we rank his albums.

Shit opinion! ! Lol


Well the thing is about ye discussions it typically somehow turns into ranking

 

[thabiz]

New Planet Asia is fucking awesome.




And just because I love ya Chuck.

Shut'em Down

 

[enzo_gt]

For a change we should rank Kanye's weed booze carriers for a change.

 

[PBY]

For a change we should rank Kanye's weed booze carriers for a change.

Cudi #1

...now we Cudi cyclin.

 

[thabiz]

not cudi again.

 

[enzo_gt]

GLC and Pusha are up there, close to CuDi status.

Mr. Hudson in "What happened to that boiiiiiiiiiiiiii?" tier.

 

[Esch]

Well, neither do you have any more than I've provided. Where is the burden of the proof?

Plus, if this was really attributable to Jay, why did it take so long after and post-Kanye and post-Graduation for the bubble gum rapper lane to appear and allow more collabos in the pop space? The content of Kanye's music, which is pretty different from Jay's outside of some occasional themes of bravado, is what allowed that IMO. Kanye's image also helped facilitate that in a way I don't see Jay doing.

i said it was my opinion, not a fact. What do you mean take so long? Jay was fine doing collabs with R&b and pop stars all through that time. and he was one of.id post a ton if i wasnt on mobile. The bubble gum and pop rapper has been there almost since the beginning... what ye is responsible for is hip hop gravitating away from gangsta shit. tbh that has as much to do with oversaturation though. its not like Kanye had any dominant part in normalizing hip hop with other genres or the public. and even if he truly did, he still wouldnt be a patch on MJ.

 

[PBY]

In actual Kanye news


Word on the e-streets is that ‘Ye will be appearing on the official remix of Drake’s “Started From The Bottom”. The track is also said to feature Lil Wayne, Rick Ross, Wiz Khalifa and Riff Raff. Nothing has been officially confirmed yet, but that lineup is definitely not too far fetched.


the fuck is thisssss?

http://www.fakeshoredrive.com/2013/...ter&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=WordSocial

 

[//B1G]

So the takeaway from this whole thing: you dudes are dumb as hell for arguing about something so fickle.

 

[PBY]

So the takeaway from this whole thing: you dudes are dumb as hell for arguing about something so fickle.

you aint heard dat.

 

[thabiz]

guess we finally get to see what it looks like when shit collides.

 

[enzo_gt]

In actual Kanye news


Word on the e-streets is that ‘Ye will be appearing on the official remix of Drake’s “Started From The Bottom”. The track is also said to feature Lil Wayne, Rick Ross, Wiz Khalifa and Riff Raff. Nothing has been officially confirmed yet, but that lineup is definitely not too far fetched.


the fuck is thisssss?

http://www.fakeshoredrive.com/2013/...ter&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=WordSocial

Drake squashed his thing with Kanye?

I am IN. Hope this means they'll work together more in the future.

So the takeaway from this whole thing: you dudes are dumb as hell for arguing about something so fickle.

Yeah this shit breaks down to perspective at the end of it when you can't really draw causation at the end of it all anyways. I apologize for perpetuating this shit longer than I should, GAF-Hop. May the Yeezy cycle slip into an eternal slumber.

 

[PBY]

guess we finally get to see what it looks like when shit collides.

When you and 36 get together?





/cheapshot, all love fam, love to troll stuck in the 90s ninjas.

 

[thabiz]

When you and 36 get together?





/cheapshot, all love fam, love to troll stuck in the 90s ninjas.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E7t8eoA_1jQ

edit: Wait 90's. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Y1Emb7Jyks

 

[//B1G]

Lol gaf's got a longer retention rate than one would assume.

 

[PBY]

Styles P>Kanye. Done w that thread.

 

[thabiz]

on the real.

GOAT. no doubt.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1DWGNewrMQY

 

[codhand]

Styles P>Kanye. Done w that thread.

in no way shape or form

Spoiler

except rapping

is styles p better than kanye

 

[enzo_gt]

on the real.

GOAT. no doubt.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1DWGNewrMQY

I actually listened to Follow The Leader for the first time a few weeks ago.

Goddamn I love me some Eric B & Rakim. Still like Paid In Full better though. What project do I check out next?

 

[PBY]

I actually listened to Follow The Leader for the first time a few weeks ago.

Goddamn I love me some Eric B & Rakim. Still like Paid In Full better though. What project do I check out next?

Let the Rhythm Hit Em, and then go into Rakims solo stuff

 

[Esch]

these 7 man remixes are so terrible. when was the last time any of these took off? 4 or 5 people at most.... and even then shits not gonna take off. i dont get the point of them. theyre not gonna become hits and the tracks arent really good as listening material... seems like a waste of $$$

 

[thabiz]

I actually listened to Follow The Leader for the first time a few weeks ago.

Goddamn I love me some Eric B & Rakim. Still like Paid In Full better though. What project do I check out next?

Theres only two more sadly. Let the Rhythm Hit Em and Sweat the Technique.

Rakim solo. I really liked The Master.

 

[PBY]

these 7 man remixes are so terrible. when was the last time any of these took off? 4 or 5 people at most.... and even then shits not gonna take off. i dont get the point of them. theyre not gonna become hits and the tracks arent really good as listening material... seems like a waste of $$$

I think the point is to get fans of those artists to check for the original. Just like weird fan service. I dunno, I agree they are always terrible.

 

[enzo_gt]

Thanks, biz and peter.

these 7 man remixes are so terrible. when was the last time any of these took off? 4 or 5 people at most.... and even then shits not gonna take off. i dont get the point of them. theyre not gonna become hits and the tracks arent really good as listening material... seems like a waste of $$$

The Deuces remix was super dope. Everybody brought it, even Andre 3000.

EDIT:

Supposed lead single off of his next album, King Remembered In Time.


[KRIT hook copypasta here]