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[fallengorn]

Its a minor gripe of mine just minor I absolutely love the show. Your wrong about Renly though. Its hinted at. How many sentences are dedicated to being even vaguely about Renly not having a thing for women? 3 sentences maybe? Now how many minutes in the show have been used so HBO can check that box "appeals to homosexual audiences".

Just saying..

That first scene basically informed:
Confirm Renly's relationship with Loras
Reintroduced who Stannis is
Nutshell description of Stannis' personality
The origin of his ambition for the throne

I guess you can try and shove those things somewhere else, but with the one scene you know the emotional reasoning and context for things in season 2.

 

[Fuu]

(Major ASOS)

Spoiler

The "people taking a shit" comparison is so entertaining because of Tywin's demise, it's one thing I hope they don't change.

 

[J Tourettes]

ASOS

Spoiler

Jon going down on Ygritte.

Which, ya know, thinking of her lifestyle and hygiene..holy schnikes.

Vaginas are supposed to be self cleansing. Must've still fizzed on the tongue a bit though.

 

[petethepanda]

(Major ASOS)

Spoiler

The "people taking a shit" comparison is so entertaining because of Tywin's demise, it's one thing I hope they don't change.

I thought that right after typing it rofl. That's going to be so awesome.

 

[Vyer]

. How many sentences are dedicated to being even vaguely about Renly not having a thing for women? 3 sentences maybe? Now how many minutes in the show have been used so HBO can check that box "appeals to homosexual audiences".
..

You really think that's the point of it?

 

[BruceLeeRoy]

You really think that's the point of it?

A "just because" sex scene to me is, the narrative purpose of the scene ends and we then watch two (or more!) characters do it for a minute or two. There are no scenes like that in this show.

A scene that serves a narrative purpose, be it exposition or character development, that also happens to have sex in it, is not a "just because" sex scene to me.

For me a "Just Because" sex scene is a scene that is a narrative waste. In Season 1 we very clearly find out that Renly is gay because of that its no surprise why Margaery will remain a virgin for a considerable amount of time. Despite that though that story branch is basically non-existant in the book despite vague hints, so when we get a more confirmation that yup Renly is still gay and can't get it up for Margaery that is pointless. All those extra minutes for a dude

Spoiler

thats neck is about to get slit

seems pretty over the top.

(Major ASOS)

Spoiler

The "people taking a shit" comparison is so entertaining because of Tywin's demise, it's one thing I hope they don't change.

Ha that will be great stuff.

 

[Cornballer]

Thanks, plywood. Those look great. Do you have time to do Cersei shoving Tyrion?

 

[gutshot]

Come on, it's extremely transparent that a lot of the sex on the show exists solely to fill the childish sex 'n titties HBO quota. It has such a reputation that even SNL has poked fun at it.

And as far as exposition itself goes, the show is terrible with it in general, not only when people are doing the nasty. It has an extreme case of tell-not-show. Obviously a lot is due to budget and the lack of the characters' internal monologue, but they really need to find more ways to creatively convey information within a tight budget without resorting to simple information dumps (lazy writing they often try to cover up with the aforementioned sex 'n titties).

The writers have said HBO has no such quota and has never forced them to include any sex or nudity. The reason they are liberal with their use of sex and nudity is the same reason they include lots of graphic violence and strong language: they want to convey that this world is gritty and real.

I do tend to agree that the exposition could be handled better in some cases. But, on the other hand, the writers have an extremely difficult job having to adapt a book series that is very heavy on backstory and very heavy on internal monologue. They are doing a pretty good job, all things considered.

 

[Forsaken82]

I think she looks mid to late 20s. I'm curious if they will change the storyline down the road (Series.. can't remember which book but it's beyond COK. Either Feast or Dance.)

Spoiler

to not include her getting married to Tommen. When she was 16, it was at least within the realm of possibility... but with her being clearly much older, it might come off as too creepy. I guess Tommen's actor will be a few years older by then but she'd still look like his mother.

All of the actors in the show are represented as older than their counterparts in the book. Arya for instance is 14 (i believe) on the show, but shes 11 in the book for instance. Myrcella and Tommen have been cast, and they look older than there book counterparts as well.

Spoiler

and lets be honest, it isn't like Margary is going to have to make out with Tommen... she gives him cats... not sure what creep factor you are really worried about

 

[GCX]

For me a "Just Because" sex scene is a scene that is a narrative waste. In Season 1 we very clearly find out that Renly is gay because of that its no surprise why Margaery will remain a virgin for a considerable amount of time. Despite that though that story branch is basically non-existant in the book despite vague hints, so when we get a more confirmation that yup Renly is still gay and can't get it up for Margaery that is pointless. All those extra minutes for a dude

Spoiler

thats neck is about to get slit

seems pretty over the top.

Renly is one of the top players in the game right now. You really think he deserves no screen time? Also the scenes develop Margaery and Loras' characters as well and not just Renly's.

 

[BruceLeeRoy]

Renly is one of the top players in the game right now. You really think he deserves no screen time? Also the scenes develop Margaery's character as well and not just Renly.

I didn't say he doesn't deserve screen time I just struggle to see how any of that adds to his depth of character.

You know who is perfectly cast in this show though fricken Theon. I loathe that guy which is a good sign.

 

[Vyer]

For me a "Just Because" sex scene is a scene that is a narrative waste. In Season 1 we very clearly find out that Renly is gay because of that its no surprise why Margaery will remain a virgin for a considerable amount of time. Despite that though that story branch is basically non-existant in the book despite vague hints, so when we get a more confirmation that yup Renly is still gay and can't get it up for Margaery that is pointless. All those extra minutes for a dude

Spoiler

thats neck is about to get slit

seems pretty over the top.
.

That scene was about Margaery and the Tyrell situation more than about Renly. The point of it wasn't to tell you Renly was gay.

 

[Forsaken82]

I didn't say he doesn't deserve screen time I just struggle to see how any of that adds to his depth of character.

You know who is perfectly cast in this show though fricken Theon. I loathe that guy which is a good sign.

It doesn't necessarily play into HIS story,

Spoiler

but the future stories of Margeary and loras.

it is all about the bigger picture. The great thing about this series is that every character plays a huge part in just about any other character.

 

[BruceLeeRoy]

That scene was about Margaery and the Tyrell situation more than about Renly. The point of it wasn't to tell you Renly was gay.

Yeah I know man.

It doesn't necessarily play into HIS story,

Spoiler

but the future stories of Margeary and loras.

it is all about the bigger picture. The great thing about this series is that every character plays a huge part in just about any other character.

I just finished [ASOS] so right now I might be missing some narrative impact from that scene.

 

[Forsaken82]

I just finished [ASOS] so right now I might be missing some narrative impact from that scene.

Not necessarily an obvious narrative impact, but the fact that we know Renly is gay (which we don't exactly get from the book) sort of pushes the reader to assume "is Margaery really a virgin, did renly sleep with her?" These scenes in the show add to that overarching plot point.

 

[Lothar]

That scene was about Margaery and the Tyrell situation more than about Renly. The point of it wasn't to tell you Renly was gay.

That point could have been made in a sentence or two by another character. Maybe an insult from Stannis making fun of him for not satisfying his queen.

 

[Joe Shlabotnik]

For me a "Just Because" sex scene is a scene that is a narrative waste. In Season 1 we very clearly find out that Renly is gay because of that its no surprise why Margaery will remain a virgin for a considerable amount of time. Despite that though that story branch is basically non-existant in the book despite vague hints, so when we get a more confirmation that yup Renly is still gay and can't get it up for Margaery that is pointless. All those extra minutes for a dude

Spoiler

thats neck is about to get slit

seems pretty over the top.

Super duper spoilers ahoy:

Spoiler

That's exactly why he needs those extra minutes. They had one scene established in the middle of last season, and Renly has like an episode left at most. An extended scene with him and Loras shortly before he's finished both serves to attach the audience to the character so it means something when he's gone, and adds drama to Loras' (mistaken) beef with Brienne when he rushes in. These are all characters involved in a hugely important and dramatic upcoming scene and we need to become very familiar with them very quickly.

 

[BruceLeeRoy]

Super duper spoilers ahoy:

Spoiler

That's exactly why he needs those extra minutes. They had one scene established in the middle of last season, and Renly has like an episode left at most. An extended scene with him and Loras shortly before he's finished both serves to attach the audience to the character so it means something when he's gone, and adds drama to Loras' (mistaken) beef with Brienne when he rushes in. These are all characters involved in a hugely important and dramatic upcoming scene and we need to become very familiar with them very quickly.

The

Spoiler

Brienne

thing is a good point.

 

[gutshot]

I think Matt Zoller Seitz's editorial from last year is so on point. Here is the main thrust of his (and my) argument with regards to the sex and nudity on Thrones.

It’s of a piece with a tediously moralizing strain in American criticism, one which insists that all sex and nudity must be dramatically “justified,” even if it occurs on a TV series based on a highly sexual series of fantasy novels that take place in a male-dominated world in which women fight tooth and nail for power, and achieve it.

The phrase “sexposition,” however catchy and cute, is a loaded one, and maddening. It concedes that the makers of a particular R-rated TV series have gone out of their way to blend theoretically prurient sex and nudity with actual storytelling, but are being taken to task anyway. Not once in any scene of the show’s first season did the filmmakers show unclothed or copulating characters without some kind of necessary plot movement happening at the same time, always giving the narrative element prominence. And when you look at the total running time of season one of “Game of Thrones” — somewhere around 600 minutes — less than five percent of its running time featured sex or nudity of any kind. Viewed in its totality, “Game of Thrones” is a chaste show. And yet the sex and nudity are constantly being scrutinized and judged for being “necessary” or “unnecessary.”

Meanwhile, as I have noted elsewhere, neither McNamara nor other critics editorializing about supposedly excessive nudity and sex on “Game of Thrones” ever say so much as one measly word about the intensely graphic violence and raunchy language on the series.

For the record, I don’t have a problem with any of the violence or language on “Game of Thrones,” either; it’s set in a Dungeons and Dragons-flavored version of Hobbes’ State of Nature, and as such, we should expect to see elemental human activities depicted often, and with gusto, and if we have a problem with that, we shouldn’t be watching. I just find it grimly amusing that, for whatever reason, sex and nudity must be handled with special care, and must always be “necessary” and utterly unimpeachable in their presentation, yet profanity and violence are rarely held to such such standards. This is America’s Puritan mentality coming home to roost in criticism. Closeups of throats being slit and limbs being lopped off are an expected part of R-rated entertainment aimed at adult viewers, and not even worthy of comment. But nudity and sex must be “justified.”

 

[Bigfoot]

Sex talk again. Seems to happen every episode. Does it actually bother that many people or are some of us (myself included) ok with it?

It's times like this I wish GAF had a poll option. I'd like to know if I'm in the minority or if it is just a small group of prudish GAF members that complain each week.

Edit: That article in the post above describes it perfectly.

 

[BenjaminBirdie]

Sex talk again. Seems to happen every episode. Does it actually bother that many people or are some of us (myself included) ok with it?

It's times like this I wish GAF had a poll option. I'd like to know if I'm in the minority or if it is just a small group of prudish GAF members that complain each week.

Edit: That article in the post above describes it perfectly.

I'm with you on this one. Roll call!

 

[Plywood]

Thanks, plywood. Those look great. Do you have time to do Cersei shoving Tyrion?

Shove Only

 

[BruceLeeRoy]

Shove Only

I love Tyrion soooo much.

 

[Zabka]

I'm mad that there isn't more sex. Spartacus makes this show look like church.

 

[RobotsAnger]

Sex talk again. Seems to happen every episode. Does it actually bother that many people or are some of us (myself included) ok with it?

It's times like this I wish GAF had a poll option. I'd like to know if I'm in the minority or if it is just a small group of prudish GAF members that complain each week.

Edit: That article in the post above describes it perfectly.

Well you can count me in as one of the members who doesn't mind them. But I understand there are offended/sensitive members on this board so I prefer to not participate in these discussions.

 

[Onemic]

I think Matt Zoller Seitz's editorial from last year is so on point. Here is the main thrust of his (and my) argument with regards to the sex and nudity on Thrones.

Sums it up to perfection

 

[Cornballer]

I think Matt Zoller Seitz's editorial from last year is so on point. Here is the main thrust of his (and my) argument with regards to the sex and nudity on Thrones.

Thanks for posting that - I was about to dig that article up, and I agree wholeheartedly with his argument.

http://i.minus.com/ib0Alfk2NJqn7X.gif[IMG]
[URL="http://i.minus.com/iQ8wvsX9lL01Q.gif"][B]Shove Only[/B][/URL][/QUOTE]Awesome, thanks!

 

[PhoenixDark]

I have no problem with sex in general - I love Spartacus afterall. My problem with a lot of the sex in GoT is that it's used as a crutch for average exposition. I get the impression the writers aren't confident viewers can be trusted to listen to exposition, therefore decide to distract with a host of awkward sex scenes that feel unrealistic. I hate to beat a dead horse, but the dragon naming with Viserys in S1 comes to mind first. Not only is it a scene that establishes no information the viewer actually needs, the ridiculous nature of it kills the scene. Somewhat similarly, the LF scene from S1 comes to mind. The dialogue is again rather heavy handed, and its made worse by Gillen's disinterested delivery. In this case the story was relevant to establishing the character though, but I feel it could have been handled much better.

In the recent season of Spartacus there's a brothel montage in nearly every episode where you see a bunch of ridiculous sex for a minute. Likewise GoT has its own brothel shots that sort of "set the scene," for instance the infamous peeping scene in episode two. That type of nudity/sex is there to establish the scene - a brothel is going to have rampant sex. In that sense it makes sense, my problem is with the more ridiculous aspects of that scene, specifically the snowball. And given the limits on time, it struck me as unnecessary screen time that could have gone somewhere else. Did we really need a scene turning LF into some comic book villain/pimp? Why not just have him quickly tell Ros to stop sulking, then waltz off to attend a small council meeting.

 

[petethepanda]

It's funny that so much sex talk has sprung up after an episode that doesn't really have any, lol.

 

[AngryMoth]

It's funny that so much sex talk has sprung up after an episode that doesn't really have any, lol.

The cycle must not be broken!

 

[fallengorn]

Imagine if there was a Yara sex scene...

 

[q_q]

I agree with PD. It's not that the sex is offensive, but that in many cases it seems forced and unnecessary and seems to be used as a crutch to make the story more shiny and edgy without providing a whole lot of substance. Not to mention the fact that many of the sex scenes are just outright bad, and awkward to watch. I literally burst out laughing during the Melisandre/Stannis sex scene in episode 2. It looked more like satire than believable sex.

 

[Lothar]

I think Matt Zoller Seitz's editorial from last year is so on point. Here is the main thrust of his (and my) argument with regards to the sex and nudity on Thrones.

This guy is very very very stupid.

"Not once in any scene of the show’s first season did the filmmakers show unclothed or copulating characters without some kind of necessary plot movement happening at the same time, always giving the narrative element prominence."

Um, the scene with Viserys and Doreah in the bathtub where she talks for five minutes about dragons for an obvious example?

Did he even watch the TV show?

 

[KingK]

I don't personally have a problem with all of the sex. If I'm watching the show alone or with my close friends it's whatever. But when I try to watch it with my family or with my roommate and his friends who are really Christian it turns them off of the show and makes it really awkward. My family doesn't really give a shit, I'm sure, but my roommate and his friends who are huge fantasy fans that I know would otherwise love the show don't really like it because of all the sex. I just feel like it limits the audience unnecessarily.

Plus, I would rather they cut barely useful sex scenes than cut major parts of other character's storylines.

 

[Enco]

I don't personally have a problem with all of the sex. If I'm watching the show alone or with my close friends it's whatever. But when I try to watch it with my family or with my roommate and his friends who are really Christian it turns them off of the show and makes it really awkward. My family doesn't really give a shit, I'm sure, but my roommate and his friends who are huge fantasy fans that I know would otherwise love the show don't really like it because of all the sex. I just feel like it limits the audience unnecessarily.

Plus, I would rather they cut barely useful sex scenes than cut major parts of other character's storylines.

Yea this is no way a family show.

I miss Sean Bean. By far the best person in a shitty world of shitty people. His daughters are pretty awesome though. As is the fat guy from the Night's Watch.

If all the Lannisters don't die a slow and painful death, I'll feel cheated. The Imp is cool though.

 

[Zabka]

Any jokes that don't advance the plot should be eliminated as well.

 

[Bigfoot]

This guy is very very very stupid.

"Not once in any scene of the show’s first season did the filmmakers show unclothed or copulating characters without some kind of necessary plot movement happening at the same time, always giving the narrative element prominence."

Um, the scene with Viserys and Doreah in the bathtub where she talks for five minutes about dragons for an obvious example?

Did he even watch the TV show?

That scene was useful to me as a non book reader at the time as it explained that dragons did exist recently and it showed their history was linked to that family. Sure the dragon names went on a bit but not a big deal. The scene also helped expand those characters, plus the girl was hot so that's a plus.

Sometimes you have to look at the scenes without thinking of the books to get a better view of their purpose. And sure, that scene could have taken place with them eating dinner instead or something but it didn't seem out of place at all.

 

[fallengorn]

I literally burst out laughing during the Melisandre/Stannis sex scene in episode 2. It looked more like satire than believable sex.

I think that was the worse of the new scenes they added but I will say, that's probably how Stannis has sex.

 

[Massa]

This guy is very very very stupid.

"Not once in any scene of the show’s first season did the filmmakers show unclothed or copulating characters without some kind of necessary plot movement happening at the same time, always giving the narrative element prominence."

Um, the scene with Viserys and Doreah in the bathtub where she talks for five minutes about dragons for an obvious example?

Did he even watch the TV show?

Did you even watch the TV show? That scene was important.

 

[scosher]

Haters, I thought the Viserys/Doreah was one of the best sexposition scenes last year.

- Developed the character of Viserys and made him more than just a two-dimensional caricature of a bratty prince.
- A sex scene (or post-coital) is really the only time Viserys would even open up like that
- Doreah's tits.
- For non-readers, we learn that dragons did exist in this world, and aren't just fairy tales or legends.
- First references to things like the (minor ACOK spoiler)

Spoiler

Faceless Men

- Doreah's tits.

 

[Steelyuhas]

So I was thinking about the opening title sequence, and the locations, wondering what would be in this season. I think

Spoiler

Qarth

and

Spoiler

Harrenhal

are pretty much confirmed, but what about others? I think it's slightly weird that they show Castle Black every episode that's beyond the wall, but I'd imagine that

Spoiler

the Fist of the First Men

will at least get some recognition in the opening credits. What I also found odd was that Dragonstone was shown in episode 3, when Renly is meant to be nowhere near Dragonstone, but on virtually the other side of Westeros near Highgarden. Similar to how they insist on showing Vaes Dothrak for anything mildly Dothraki. Can anybody think of any others?

I'm a little confused at the inconsistency of the opening credits this year.

Dragonstone was not featured in episode 3, yet it was in the credits. Castle Black/The Wall is shown even though they aren't there, Vaes Dothrak is shown on the credits, but Dany is in the Red Wastes, and it was featured in episode 3 even though we didn't see Dany.

I've noticed that the opening credits has changed in season 2 to only show the actors that are in the episode, but I wish they would do the same with locations.

 

[levious]

For me a "Just Because" sex scene is a scene that is a narrative waste. In Season 1 we very clearly find out that Renly is gay because of that its no surprise why Margaery will remain a virgin for a considerable amount of time. Despite that though that story branch is basically non-existant in the book despite vague hints, so when we get a more confirmation that yup Renly is still gay and can't get it up for Margaery that is pointless. All those extra minutes for a dude

Spoiler

thats neck is about to get slit

seems pretty over the top.



Ha that will be great stuff.

I wouldn't call them vague hints in the books.

 

[Jonm1010]

Im not against sex in tv shows. In fact the last episode did the sex fairly well. It served a purpose and didnt seem forced.

When I take issue is when the sex seems to ruin the flow of the episode or seems forced and unoriginal.

For me the laughing about the "sexposition" was because they just kept using the device and a similar scenario over and over and over and over. Episode after episode after episode. Sometimes twice in an episode. It's not prudish, its just tiresome and comes off lazy after the same device kept being used with little or no deviation from the formula.

Dont get me wrong, i love this show to death. But that was my main complaint last season - that and some of the directing on the episodes - and that was the reason for the annoyance, not some deep down ingrained puritan influence. Though for the most part this season I have no complaints.

 

[BruceLeeRoy]

I wouldn't call them vague hints in the books.

All of the statements are used in the form of a joke or sarcasm how wouldn't that be considered relatively vague?

 

[Lothar]

Did you even watch the TV show? That scene was important.

Things you learned from that scene:

Dragons existed - Already established. From the 2nd episode where Dany's handmaidens are telling her that the dragons are gone.
Viserys is a dick - Already established - totally pointless when in the next scene he's doing something far worse. Hitting the girl and dragging her by the hair.
Family is tied to dragons - Established throughout the series. How many times does Dany go on about dragons or mention the blood of the dragon? A lot.

For me the laughing about the "sexposition" was because they just kept using the device and a similar scenario over and over and over and over. Episode after episode after episode. Sometimes twice in an episode. It's not prudish, its just tiresome and comes off lazy after the same device kept being used with little or no deviation from the formula.

Exactly.

Any jokes that don't advance the plot should be eliminated as well.

Does the joke take an entire 5 minute scene to tell? Then hell yeah, it should be left out.

 

[levious]

All of the statements are used in the form of a joke or sarcasm how wouldn't that be considered relatively vague?

When they're explicitely about renly and loras having had anal sex, I just can't see that as vague, but if you do that's fine.

 

[BruceLeeRoy]

When they're explicitely about renly and loras having had anal sex, I just can't see that as vague, but if you do that's fine.

What!? Where is that? What book and page number?

 

[Gvaz]

Catched up.

I want to beat the shit out of Theon.

That rancid cunt.

I had this feeling until later on. Then my opinion took a 180.

Also why the fuck did he call it the kingsguard, not the Rainbow Guard?

UGH!

 

[GCX]

What!? Where is that? What book and page number?

Iirc the most blatant quote is in AFFC.

 

[BruceLeeRoy]

Iirc the most blatant quote is in AFFC.

Ahh I just started AFFC. Well that undermines my whole argument then.