The people in power do seem to think a small segment of Twitter should run their countries (into the ground).
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Hamas terrorists infiltrated Israel. 1400+ killed, 2400+ wounded, 240+ abducted. Israel declares war
- Thread starter ADiTAR
- Start date
IDKFA
I am Become Bilbo Baggins
Israel cancels White House visit after US doesn't block UN ceasefire vote - BBC News
In a change in position, the US refrained from vetoing the ceasefire measure, which also calls for the release of hostages.
www.bbc.co.uk
Does anyone think that Hamas will release hostages and call it a day? I'm skeptical.
What is even the long term goal in this? ("demand of immediate ceasefire for the month of Ramadan leading to a lasting sustainable ceasefire")
Lets just assume Hamas returns all the hostages (at least half of them probably dead), what afterwards? Rebuild Gaza... and then? Give Palestinians their state?
What kind of message are we sending here? In order to achieve your goals, be a terrorist and slaughter as many innocent civilians as possible while sacrificing your own children.
Will Hamas just magically disappear with their own state? Or would they be worshipped as the achievers of the impossible? Will Hamas stop putting the majority of their ressources into destroying Israel?
Can anyone tell me what the UN thinks is going to happen?
Lets just assume Hamas returns all the hostages (at least half of them probably dead), what afterwards? Rebuild Gaza... and then? Give Palestinians their state?
What kind of message are we sending here? In order to achieve your goals, be a terrorist and slaughter as many innocent civilians as possible while sacrificing your own children.
Will Hamas just magically disappear with their own state? Or would they be worshipped as the achievers of the impossible? Will Hamas stop putting the majority of their ressources into destroying Israel?
Can anyone tell me what the UN thinks is going to happen?
The truth is, they won't agree to a state. That's why the best play for Israel is to push them into agreeing to one, as fucked up as it is, eventually Israel wants peace. It'll be a win win situation if they actually agree to a state, but if they won't the world will see that they just want the whole place.
And it's a shame Western countries so easily abandoned Israel now, and basically trying to force an election here. Netanyahu must go, but whoever comes next won't be any different in terms of continuing the mission.
Rentahamster
Rodent Whores
While I may agree with this thought in a general sense, I can't help but look back at America's 23 years of military operations and $4 trillion dollars spent and see that it is way past the near future and America is still fighting (i.e. engaging in military operations to fight the war on terror). Is it because -
- America wasn't trying hard enough to win?
- America is trying hard enough, but it'll take longer than 20 years?
- Even though America is still militarily engaged internationally, America hasn't experienced another 9/11 level event, and that is an acceptable definition of winning.
- America withdrew from Afghanistan in 2021 and ended the combat mission against the IS in 2021, so by that definition, we're not fighting anymore, that's a win, and 20 years still counts as "near future".
- This strategy doesn't actually work very well for this particular set of problems.
Or is it something else that I haven't considered?
Havoc2049
Member
Different types of conflicts. With Isreal, they are fighting a neighboring power, or you could maybe even call it an internal conflict, a civil war.
DragoonKain
Neighbours from Hell
I was never a free speech absolutist. I believe in it generally, but I also do think censorship should apply in certain situations. Nothing has affirmed my stance on this more than what twitter has become since October 7th. Yeah, before Elon bought it, there was stuff on there that people got suspended for that was absurd, like stating biological facts. But the amount of hardcore antisemitism on that platform now is horrifying. I've never seen anything like it on any other social media platform. There are entire threads where it's someone making some post and all the replies are "Typical Jew response" "Get lost, Jew, nobody likes you." etc. And none of these accounts get deleted or suspended. And it's all they do everyday is spew out hatred against Jews.
Now I'm sure some of these accounts are foreign troll accounts meant to stoke flames. But not all of them. Anyone who thinks this type of garbage is healthy for any platform has allowed culture war nonsense to cloud their judgement. Excessive hatred should always be suppressed. You can't have stable communities without doing so. And I don't think the "Just block them" argument applies because there's so many of them. A lot of free speech absolutists use the argument that the reason to allow this type of hate is because you can just block it of you don't like it. If you're a user on there's who's Jewish and you are a user who has gotten the attention of the antisemitic corners of the platform, you'd have to spend half your time on the platform just blocking account after account.
Now I'm sure some of these accounts are foreign troll accounts meant to stoke flames. But not all of them. Anyone who thinks this type of garbage is healthy for any platform has allowed culture war nonsense to cloud their judgement. Excessive hatred should always be suppressed. You can't have stable communities without doing so. And I don't think the "Just block them" argument applies because there's so many of them. A lot of free speech absolutists use the argument that the reason to allow this type of hate is because you can just block it of you don't like it. If you're a user on there's who's Jewish and you are a user who has gotten the attention of the antisemitic corners of the platform, you'd have to spend half your time on the platform just blocking account after account.
StreetsofBeige
Gold Member
Anti-semitism has always been around, but there wasnt an Oct 7 event to spark them to all come out of the woodwork. And when you got so many mobs, protests, social media posts etc.... it's impossible to control them all. Then it becomes a situation where either it fizzles out or it keeps going.
As for free speech and censorship, I've always been a supporter of it being free as long as it doesn't get into realms of stupidity, off topic, lying or outright disgusting stuff.
Something like twitter is one where there is no core topic, so being off topic doesn't apply (like baking pies on a car forum unless there is a OT tab like GAF people can post what they want). But in terms of gross stuff like someone wanting to post snuff videos or purposely trying to lie to the masses in a bad way that stuff should be deleted.
Free speech within reason.
DragoonKain
Neighbours from Hell
My theory is just like 2020 emboldened a bunch of racist people who have agendas against demographics deemed "privileged" or majority and spew bigoted hateful things about them, the same is happening since October 7th.
I think a lot of people out there have real deep seated anger against specific groups of people and don't really have the balls to come out and say it until they see a movement large enough coming out also saying it with impunity, and then they feel safe to join in. And since October 7th we are seeing it now because so many people are coming out against Jews, many with no repercussion whatsoever, so many feel emboldened.
The thing is though, you can't cleanse hatred and anger, it'll always exist. But if we didn't have so many cowards, people would have put their foot down from the jump and said no this is gross, only douchebags talk this way. But just like we didn't get that in 2020, we didn't get it after October 7th. Sure we have a lot of hateful people, but most people aren't. I think most people out in the world are cowards though. Most people run from a fight, most people avoid resistance, most people avoid confrontation.
The long term solution to this is the EXACT SAME long term solution EVERY country eventually tries to implement.
1. Secure borders in places and ways that make them easy to defend, difficult to cross, and cheap to control. Thus Gaza stabbing into the heart of Israel was never gonna be a good option.
2. Keep people who want to hurt you as far away as possible, preferably by not allowing them into your country and by punishing them when they snipe at you from the edges of your control.
3. Exert whatever influence you can to create a more hospitable environment for your interests in these foreign places, or failing that, force them into such internal conflict that they can't fuck with you.
Kilau
Member
Media here has turned the corner on aiding and abetting the murdering, raping terrorists.
news.gallup.com
Disgusted once again with this country but not surprised.
Majority in U.S. Now Disapprove of Israeli Action in Gaza
A majority of U.S. adults now disapprove of Israel's military action in Gaza, a shift from the prior survey in November.
news.gallup.com
Disgusted once again with this country but not surprised.
VortexCortex
Neo Member
Dumb fucks are now trying to blame Israel for 9/11...
Media here has turned the corner on aiding and abetting the murdering, raping terrorists.
Majority in U.S. Now Disapprove of Israeli Action in Gaza
A majority of U.S. adults now disapprove of Israel's military action in Gaza, a shift from the prior survey in November.
Disgusted once again with this country but not surprised.
These are rarely indicative of the whole. Who did the survey? How many people did they get? Every single person at the local synagogues had no idea there was a survey, nor did any of the allies around them. Admittedly, that is still a small sample size of around 1000 people total, but that is 1000 that would be staunchly pro-Israel.
I am sure millions of others are in a similar situation across the country.
I have no doubt in my mind that most folks are pro Israel, but aren't the ones being targeted for these surveys and don't live their lives online to the point of making bot accounts to spam social media with hate and vitriol like the Pro-Hamas groups do.
darkangel-212559
Banned
Rocket interception blew up in front of me today. I was really close. Heard a loud sound, saw the iron dome interception and then BOOM, my wife who was in our apartment at the time said our apartment shook.
Here's an image from someone else who took a photo from their apartment window, I was a LOT LOT LOT closer, as in it was RIGHT in front of me in the sky. I was outside at the time and wasn't able to get back home fast enough and I had no time to take shelter from any potential falling shrapnel. I know I should have laid down in the shelter position on the ground but I just panicked and tried to run which was stupid of me and I was on a bunch of stairs.
The sirens didn't go off with it's usual 30 second time to get into a bomb shelter as the IDF said that the rocket (or drone? So many conflicting stories) wasn't aimed at the town where we live (apparently) , but still I think if there's a rocket interception literally over where we live there really should be.
Just insane. But G0D protects. So nothing to worry about. Still I can't wait for Hizbollah to be destroyed.
Here's an image from someone else who took a photo from their apartment window, I was a LOT LOT LOT closer, as in it was RIGHT in front of me in the sky. I was outside at the time and wasn't able to get back home fast enough and I had no time to take shelter from any potential falling shrapnel. I know I should have laid down in the shelter position on the ground but I just panicked and tried to run which was stupid of me and I was on a bunch of stairs.
The sirens didn't go off with it's usual 30 second time to get into a bomb shelter as the IDF said that the rocket (or drone? So many conflicting stories) wasn't aimed at the town where we live (apparently) , but still I think if there's a rocket interception literally over where we live there really should be.
Just insane. But G0D protects. So nothing to worry about. Still I can't wait for Hizbollah to be destroyed.
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I am glad that you and yours are still safe. Hamas and their protectors can’t be defeated soon enough. Hopefully there is a day soon that things can be peaceful over in Isreal.Rocket interception blew up in front of me today. I was really close. Heard a loud sound, saw the iron dome interception and then BOOM, my wife who was in our apartment at the time said our apartment shook.
Here's an image from someone else who took a photo from their apartment window, I was a LOT LOT LOT closer, as in it was RIGHT in front of me in the sky. I was outside at the time and wasn't able to get back home fast enough and I had no time to take shelter from any potential falling shrapnel. I know I should have laid down in the shelter position on the ground but I just panicked and tried to run which was stupid of me and I was on a bunch of stairs.
The sirens didn't go off with it's usual 30 second time to get into a bomb shelter as the IDF said that the rocket (or drone? So many conflicting stories) wasn't aimed at the town where we live (apparently) , but still I think if there's a rocket interception literally over where we live there really should be.
Just insane. But G0D protects. So nothing to worry about. Still I can't wait for Hizbollah to be destroyed.
StueyDuck
Member
The hamas propaganda is strong. Anytime I even see a side glance at anything on Twitter or tiktok etc it's all people with Palestinian flags in their bios and spreading crazy misinformation.Media here has turned the corner on aiding and abetting the murdering, raping terrorists.
Majority in U.S. Now Disapprove of Israeli Action in Gaza
A majority of U.S. adults now disapprove of Israel's military action in Gaza, a shift from the prior survey in November.
Disgusted once again with this country but not surprised.
I literally saw a Swedish woman saying that Muslims and Christians have always been friends except the Jewish people try get in the way.
I genuinely haven't laughed that hard in a long time. Only a literal retard and I mean serious diagnosed mentally challenged person could actually believe that is true.
I'm not even religious and I know how painfully untrue that statement is. Much like all the people who have been beheaded and murdered over the last 30+ years in western countries because of the radical beliefs.
So long story short, unfortunately the social media propaganda machine for hamas is just getting stronger it seems.
It's not Hamas, it's an evil axis that promotes it like China, Iran and Russia.
It's never been easier to manipulate people.
nkarafo
Member
This police officer's grandfather could very likely be one of the soldiers who fought in WW2 and risked his life so the nazi flag would never wave in Britain. The very reason why he grew up in freedom and not some totalitarian regime.
And now that same officer and his kind don't give a shit about the nazi flag waving in his own country. He just sits there sipping his coffee.
Good thing humans can't live so long for his ancestors to see him. The disgrace is strong with this one. Sorry British mates, your country is most likely the first to go. Let's hope at least you can do one good thing and become the example for the other countries to avoid.
Wow, active and overt defending of Nazi imagery by officers. England, you need to get your shit together. Fire these cunts.
I gotta think there is a daily brief at high levels that is just flabbergasted at how many (potentially) violent young Muslim men they have allowed to accrue in England and how disastrous it would be if they decided to REALLY get out and cause trouble.
But appeasement....has that ever worked long term?
Lukaku's First Touch
Member
You can change England into whole Western Europe. They're a problem everywhere...
it's only going to get worse as long as leftists remain in power. Sadly the hard right parties have boners for Putler, so I have no idea who to vote for.
They must be running out of virgins up there....
DaciaJC
Gold Member
Netanyahu seeks to use 'Al Jazeera' law to shut down broadcaster
One less mouthpiece for that Islamist propaganda outlet sounds like a good thing.
One less mouthpiece for that Islamist propaganda outlet sounds like a good thing.
near
Gold Member
In the officers' defence, it's not illegal to wear/have Swastika or Nazi memorabilia in England. He's not able to articulate himself very well here, and it is difficult to explain this to people in a way that doesn't cause offence or imply that there is nothing wrong with the Swastika. He's not wrong though, Swastika's need to be taken in context that demonstrates how it is being used to propagate a hate crime, in which case he can make an arrest. Or if the symbolism is being used in conjunction with a public order offence. He doesn't make the laws, he just governs them, unfortunately some of our laws are stupid and need to be changed.
Which will do nothing, because they are trained to act this way.
A bit of a take when even they admitted it was a mistake, clearance was given but somehow that didn't get through to whoever was operating the drones. Seven aid workers are dead due to a communication error, it's not the best look sadly.Driving through Gaza might get you killed. News at 11.
CharmingCharlie
Member
Yeah I fully believe that Israel has a right to defend themselves but even I am a tad bit "okkkkkkkkkkkkk this is kinda a dick move". They were on an approved route, they are an "approved" NGO and their vehicles were clearly marked as being the world kitchen. This kinda comes across as intentional. They were in three seperately clearly marked vehicles. I could buy a mistake with one vehicle but to then go and take out the other 2 clearly marked vehicles. It probably doesn't help that in all the interviews I have seen of Benjamin Netanyahu he looks smug as fuck that the Israel Army did this.
Interesting that the three brits were all ex-military, where they security for the aid workers, mercs, or there for some other reason? Let the conspiracy begin!!
Still, never a great outcome if it was a legit aid convoy, but it is a war zone for a good reason.
There is nothing you can see the swastika as in this case other than overt antisemitism using the group that single handedly tried to exterminate the entire Jewish population from this planet. This isn't some historical documentary, this isn't an actor in costume leaving set, these are racists. Pure and simple.
If you enter a war zone, you should always expect that you life could be cut short at any moment. Whether it is an "approved" route or not. War is war and no one is safe. If these people were innocent and just trying to help, then this is a sad situation, but not one that is outside the realm of possibility and something they knew going in.
However, given the continued obfuscation of "aid work" being used to transport weapons and aid terrorists? I am not going to immediately assume innocence or guilt until there is plenty of evidence to suggest such. Always better to be on the side of skepticism and caution than immediately assume guilt or innocence in these situations.
near
Gold Member
The officer is getting grilled under the assumption that he is defending the idea that the swastika is not antisemitic. When he says 'it needs to be taken in context' he is referring to making an arrest, not that the swastika as a symbol needs to be taken into context to determine whether it is antisemitic or not. It feels more like miscommunication on the officer's part, and assertion on the woman's part. You can see him clearly stating "I didn't say it wasn't, did I?" when they suggest that his stating the swastika is not antisemitic. The problem here is that he doesn't state that it is antisemitic, probably because he is defending the position he has to take in order to make an arrest with those pro-Palestinian supporters waving swastika signs. Though, I agree 100% with you, anyone waving those signs/flags with swastikas on are antisemitic and racist.
What's with the tone here? They've already admitted it was a communication mistake, a fuck up which cost 7 people just helping out their lives which Israel has already admitted too.
CharmingCharlie
Member
I get the skepticism after the whole UNRWA scandal. But the WCK is a completely different beast to UNRWA, they were operating in Gaza with Israels approval. Infact after the 7th October terrorist attack in Israel the WCK were there in Israel helping both victims and the IDF in the aftermath. If Israel for even a minute insinuate that the WCK were "harbouring or aiding" terrorists I am gonna call utter bullshit on that. The WCK were there to provide food aid to those in need and it was done with the explicit permission and approval of the IDF. This is one hell of a fuck up by the IDF and I would say at this point we need to be skeptical about what excuses the Israeli army comes up with cos they know they fucked up big time here and will be looking for a scapegoat.
the WCK are the real deal. They were helping a lot in Ukraine back in 2022/2023, helped thousands and were a beacon of hope, working under fire at times. Basically doing what Amnesty and Red Cross had no balls to do. They’ve also coordinated with the Israelis for a while now to get aid in. Seeing the news was really heartbreaking.
Horrendous mistake for Israel to make, especially when they’re clearly unable to dispute WCK’s claims that the Israelis were informed about movements as per protocol.
At least Israel’s owned up to this one and they should do their best to provide compensation/closure or whatever. Even if it means transparent punishment for those who made the call.
Dr. Claus
Vincit qui se vincit
Now if only we could ban Al Jazeera world wide.
IDF really needs to do much better. When clearly marked aid convoys are targeted you know that little care is given with civilians in other instances. Like when the Israelis with their hands up were mistakenly shot. How many times are Palestinian civilians shot with their hands up, then? It’s probably not the only time this is happening.
Redneckerz
Those long posts don't cover that red neck boy
I get that, but this is really low-balling the situation. IDF is really trying its best, and it is the best compared to other combat situation in the last decade and more.
It's a war, people are on edge, scared, we're talking 18-21yo soldiers who have not had to deal with this kind of setting ever. Mistakes happen, and for the most part those are mistakes.
If the US and the world has backed Israel this war would have ended 3 months ago, we would've gone into Rafah and finished the job. Right now there's little chance of a deal with Hamas when US is pushing Israel to ceasefire unilaterally.
What exactly do you want Israel to do? stop the war, wait a few years, do it again?
FUBARx89
Member
Israel has every right to defend themselves, but what do you want the USA to do realistically?
They've been asking for Netanyahu to allow more aid in and he has constantly said no. They've asked Israel not to attack Rafah due to the dire circumstances in Gaza right now and he's probably not going to listen. Authorising more illegal settlements to be built, despite it being illegal in the middle of a war isnt exactly grand either.
Killing 7 aid workers, in marked vehicles, who Israel knew about with at least a double pass of a drone is hard for any country to defend.
Alot of world leaders have spent significant political capital assisting Israel, but it does have it's limits.
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Sorry, that's not true. Israel has done everything the US asked it, and the US is the reason for the humanitarian crisis in Gaza. If it let Israel blockade Gaza, no food, no fuel, no nothing, for 1 month, you'd see the people in Gaza revolt or even Hamas inner people do it because they have family who they don't wanna see starve.
It would've given Israel the leverage it needs to end the war and bring the hostages back.
The dire situation in Gaza is because of Hamas, stealing the free food and selling it back to Palestinians for crazy prices. The reason food trucks are stuck is because the UN and UNRAW have not set up any logistics to move it or defend it, not Israel blocking them. Even now, for no reason either to appease the US, Israel just opened two more lanes for food to enter.
Of course the aid workers was a big mistake, and it's very unfortunate that it happened. Israel is being pressured by the world on everything, while there's zero pressure on Hamas or Qatar. Zero. That's the difference that's very easy to ignore and why the war won't stop.
Very easy to sit on the sidelines of this and criticize.
Have higher standards of conduct.
Every data shows IDF has the highest standard of combat. If it didn't, I wouldn't need to read everyday on more fallen soldiers.
Strange you don't demand that of Hamas. Why is there zero pressure on Hamas to surrender? to release the hostages? The war would be over today if the world came together to cut their funding and tell them to surrender.
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