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[Messofanego]

Just curious, what does Japan think of ScarJo's casting?

Someone tweet Brian Ashcraft about this.

 

[unholyrevenger72]

Yeah also speed racer and dragon ball bombed.. Partly because they failed to capture the fans of the original material and that also had to do with hiring actors that do not look like the original material at all.

Even if the movie had perfect casting, it still would have been shit.

 

[peanutbutterlatte]

Someone tweet Brian Ashcraft about this.

He's like the journalistic equivalent of white-washing though.

"We have plenty of talented Japanese journalists."

 

[Henkka]

He's like the journalistic equivalent of white-washing though.

"We have plenty of talented Japanese journalists."

That made no sense at all.

 

[Aztechnology]

Why did they cast Scarlett Johansson as the major in Ghost in the Shell?
Well it's simple, Scarlett Johansson is a big name who's been proven to do sci-fi material well. Just take a look at Under the Skin and Lucy.

Wait wait. I get the rest of your post. But did you just essentially say Lucy was a good Sci-Fi... I can't let that go. That movie was a hot mess. It was like some especially terrible version of limitless with a whole lot more technobabble and logic gaps.

Daniel Wu, currently starring Into the Badlands, worked this way.



Daniel Henney found a strong career as an actor in Korea.



Maggie Q found a career in Hong Kong first.


None could speak the language, but still found opportunity.



As I've pointed out elsewhere, the star-driven picture is mostly a myth and crutch these days, not based in any reality.

Here's a result from crunching the hard data.



http://www.vulture.com/2012/07/why-stars-dont-matter-gavin-polone.html





Notable quote:


A film like Strange is being sold on one thing and one thing only:

I couldn't agree more. Really at this point it's getting quite frustrating how the audience is seen as too simple to care about anything other than star power and big explosions. I think there's a big enough audience that appreciates writing, acting, plot and authenticity above names and CGI.

There's never been a better time or more receptive audiences to diversity and smaller actors who could make their careers off movies like this that absolutely do not need a full cast of "bankable" stars.

 

[Vinci]

Sure looks like a GREAT idea to cast this white, blond American as a dark haired Asian.

10/10

Hollywood is a pretty gross place. I cant wait to see all the white people playing section 9 employees.

Not in any way defending whitewashing, or how poorly I expect Ghost in the Shell to be translated into a Hollywood film, but Kusanagi hasn't looked that Japanese in a long while. The most recent depictions of her, even within Japan, have skewed heavily more towards Westernized features than in her earlier designs.

Take a standard picture of her from Stand Alone Complex and compare her to ScarJO, and the comparison isn't as contrasted.

Again, I think she should be Japanese. I don't agree with whitewashing. But it's clear to me that Japan has even started to shift characterizations of her away from her original look, perhaps to appeal to more global audiences? I don't know why.

 

[Chariot]

Not in any way defending whitewashing, or how poorly I expect Ghost in the Shell to be translated into a Hollywood film, but Kusanagi hasn't looked that Japanese in a long while. The most recent depictions of her, even within Japan, have skewed heavily more towards Westernized features than in her earlier designs.

Take a standard picture of her from Stand Alone Complex and compare her to ScarJO, and the comparison isn't as contrasted.

Again, I think she should be Japanese. I don't agree with whitewashing. But it's clear to me that Japan has even started to shift characterizations of her away from her original look, perhaps to appeal to more global audiences? I don't know why.

Or that's just the way anime style is. I am tired of this "anime characters look white"-discussion.

 

[Kuroyume]

Not in any way defending whitewashing, or how poorly I expect Ghost in the Shell to be translated into a Hollywood film, but Kusanagi hasn't looked that Japanese in a long while. The most recent depictions of her, even within Japan, have skewed heavily more towards Westernized features than in her earlier designs.

Take a standard picture of her from Stand Alone Complex and compare her to ScarJO, and the comparison isn't as contrasted.

Again, I think she should be Japanese. I don't agree with whitewashing. But it's clear to me that Japan has even started to shift characterizations of her away from her original look, perhaps to appeal to more global audiences? I don't know why.

Her name is Motoko Kusanagi dude... WHATEVER

Scarlett Johansson is the fucking worst. She seems to have no problem getting work at all. I mean, I actually like her... But, she couldn't turn this one role down? Shameless. I wonder if she would ever consider doing black face for a role. Probably.

 

[DryEyeRelief]

Not in any way defending whitewashing, or how poorly I expect Ghost in the Shell to be translated into a Hollywood film, but Kusanagi hasn't looked that Japanese in a long while. The most recent depictions of her, even within Japan, have skewed heavily more towards Westernized features than in her earlier designs.

Take a standard picture of her from Stand Alone Complex and compare her to ScarJO, and the comparison isn't as contrasted.

Are you actually Danish?

 

[Carl2291]

Her name is Motoko Kusanagi dude... WHATEVER

Scarlett Johansson is the fucking worst. She seems to have no problem getting work at all. I mean, I actually like her... But, she couldn't turn this one role down? Shameless. I wonder if she would ever consider doing black face for a role. Probably.

Hahaha man this post. Give your head a shake.

 

[wildfire]

On the other hand they are also trying to court the likes of China and still have not made the connection that maybe having Asian leads would maybe help with that.

Actually they do know that and have experimented a few years ago. Chinese audiences reacted poorly to Hollywood not using Chinese people for Chinese sounding parts. Hollywood is both too racist and too insensitive to the racism of other groups to care. They've gotten better but it takes the right people being in a position to make a successful movie for it to ever happen. Change can't occur with the old blood that is still running things with their culturally limited mentality.

 

[KonradLaw]

Scarlett Johansson is the fucking worst. She seems to have no problem getting work at all. I mean, I actually like her... But, she couldn't turn this one role down?

Well..realistically the only two candidates for this role would probably be Jenniffer Lawrence and Kristen Stewart

 

[Apt101]

As an aside, as a half-asian, the term "oriental" doesn't bother me - not like it does some friends and family members. I have never seen it used with malice, just ignorance.

About Scarlett being cast, I think it's unfortunate that this keeps happening. Like whenever they finally make Akira I know Tetsuo and my boy Kaneda are going to be two mega white dudes, probably with surfer accents, knocking around Neo Tokyo. And someone mentioned the massive asian market for films (particularly China). Hollywood, IMO, has almost nothing to lose, as it's not like asian actors face the same kind of racism blacks do; remember Heimdall, Johnny Storm, Finn, et al? If they were asian actors I can (confidently) guarantee you the backlash would have been muted, and the movies probably slightly more successful overseas. Well, except for Star Wars, that vehicle would have crushed ass regardless. But I think you get my gist.

 

[Vicetrailia]

Not in any way defending whitewashing, or how poorly I expect Ghost in the Shell to be translated into a Hollywood film, but Kusanagi hasn't looked that Japanese in a long while. The most recent depictions of her, even within Japan, have skewed heavily more towards Westernized features than in her earlier designs.

Take a standard picture of her from Stand Alone Complex and compare her to ScarJO, and the comparison isn't as contrasted.

Again, I think she should be Japanese. I don't agree with whitewashing. But it's clear to me that Japan has even started to shift characterizations of her away from her original look, perhaps to appeal to more global audiences? I don't know why.

It's skewed in your eyes as a westerner.

But to the japanese, she is a Japanese character. If she wasn't, you would know.

 

[SolidChamp]

Lethal Weapon 4 says everything we need to know about the little regard/respect Hollywood has for its Asian actors.

Movie is oddly racist.

I don't expect Marvel's money-printing, toy assembly plant that is the MCU to start taking "risks" with their casting.

 

[Llyranor]

I don't even know the source material, but I shook my head when I saw Tilda dressed as a bald nun in the Strange trailer.

But I guess they needed rhe Star Power. After all, movies can't sell when you have Asian no-names like Jet Li and Jackie Chan. You got to bring in the star power if you want to bring in the audience. Starring MICHAEL ANGARANO

Oh, hello.

 

[lazygecko]

My mind always wanders back to the Mortal Kombat and Street Fighter movies when this topic is brought up. Mortal Kombat played the whole thing completely straight, and starred unknown Chinese-American Robin Shou as the protagonist Liu Kang. And while Street Fighter may not have technically been whitewashing, I'm pretty sure relegating Ryu to a side character and putting Van Damme as Guile in the lead qualifies as such.

Of course, Street Fighter flopped while playing it as safe as they could with bankable star power, while Mortal Kombat dominated the box office for several weeks.

 

[KonradLaw]

My mind always wanders back to the Mortal Kombat and Street Fighter movies when this topic is brought up. Mortal Kombat played the whole thing completely straight, and starred unknown Chinese-American Robin Shou as the protagonist Liu Kang. And while Street Fighter may not have technically been whitewashing, I'm pretty sure relegating Ryu to a side character and putting Van Damme as Guile in the lead qualifies as such.

Of course, Street Fighter flopped while playing it as safe as they could with bankable star power, while Mortal Kombat dominated the box office for several weeks.

Yeah. But which one stood the test of time better? MK is just embarassing today, while Street FIghter is so bad, it's better watch than when it was released.

 

[Lyte Edge]

Has anything been said about the Ghost In The Shell live-action movie storyline yet? The character Scarlett is playing does have a prosthetic body, and it could be explained that she is using a body that is 'western' in appearance. I'm quite sure that this was not the reason why she was selected for this role, though.

 

[Vulcano's assistant]

Has anything been said about the Ghost In The Shell live-action movie storyline yet? The character Scarlett is playing does have a prosthetic body, and it could be explained that she is using a body that is 'western' in appearance. I'm quite sure that this was not the reason why she was selected for this role, though.

we only know that it is a sequel to Lost in Translation.

 

[Kinyou]

The reaction to Johansson's Ghost in the Shell look reminds me of the backlash when the Nina Simone biopic starring Zoe Saldana was released last month. In both cases, the filmmakers went to some lengths to alter the appearance of their leading ladies, rather than cast actresses who more naturally matched the subjects.

huh? Doesn't Johansson just have a different haircut? I wouldn't compare that to prosthetic makeup

 

[Kaze Kyou]

I'd say American TV has been doing the right thing when it comes to Asian-American actors. As someone has said in this thread, this might have something to do with less risk involved.

Ironically, I think, Asian females get better, meatier roles than Asian males. In the Expendables 2 they cast an Nan Yu as the supporting actress, and in Pacific Rim they cast Rinko Kikuchi to play opposite the lead actor. Even if they don't land the lead roles, they always seem to get a substantial role as opposed to Benedict Wong in every sci-fi movie, Sung Kang in Fast and Furious, and Kenneth Choi in Captain America.

Is it the fetish-isation of Asian women? Are Asian men too "effeminate" to play the strong, make lead? Are Asian men "not hot enough" to land the audience?

C'mon Hollywood.

 

[Glass Rebel]

In the case of the MCU, a lot of challenges they face with Asian characters are because of the source material. Many of their Asian and Asian-related characters were conceived years ago as horrid stereotypes of Asian people and Marvel is right in recognizing that. The problem is that they rarely if never go the other way. You won't see an Asian Tony Stark, Asian Hawkeye, Asian Doctor Strange, Asian Scarlet Witch or Asian Quicksilver.

I'm pretty sure they cast Tilda as Ancient One for two reasons: 1. to sidestep the issue of the AO being a Fu Manchu stereotype 2. to have the AO appear as someone with ambiguous features. Coupled with the fact that she's a great actress, it doesn't make her a bad choice. However, I'd argue that it's "funny" that these ambiguous characters always occupy a spot on the White spectrum...

 

[entremet]

I have a lot of Asian friends who'd take issue with their use of 'Oriental' in describing people than Swinton playing that role.

Poor attempt at parallelism by the writer.

 

[Dali]

I thought Speed Racer was perfectly cast.

I don't know much about Dr. Strange or the character Tilda is playing but it was very jarring to see this temple in Tibet with all these adornments we've seen in cinema and TV time and time again and then the person at the center isn't chow yun fat but some old white lady with a crappy bald cap on. Wtf?

 

[Error]

The Tilda Swilton bit in the Doctor Strange trailer made me laugh, looked absolutely terrible. Rest of the teaser was great, though.

 

[Harmen]

I'd say American TV has been doing the right thing when it comes to Asian-American actors. As someone has said in this thread, this might have something to do with less risk involved.

Ironically, I think, Asian females get better, meatier roles than Asian males. In the Expendables 2 they cast an Nan Yu as the supporting actress, and in Pacific Rim they cast Rinko Kikuchi to play opposite the lead actor. Even if they don't land the lead roles, they always seem to get a substantial role as opposed to Benedict Wong in every sci-fi movie, Sung Kang in Fast and Furious, and Kenneth Choi in Captain America.

Is it the fetish-isation of Asian women? Are Asian men too "effeminate" to play the strong, make lead? Are Asian men "not hot enough" to land the audience?

C'mon Hollywood.

I honestly do not understand the lack of male Asian heroes/leads. Some of the most badass and most influential action heroes of the past were played by Asian males. Jackie Chan, Bruce Lee, Jet Li are prime examples. I am aware those all fall into the martial arts stereotypes. But I don't understand why this never led to a rising popularity of male Asian actors in general.

Maybe because several Asian countries have big budget, well grossing filmindustries themselves? Not that that makes a lack of Asian males in American productions right. But at least I know many acclaimed classics featuring Asian males. Actually, thinking about that makes matters even more odd. Some Japanese classics helped shape Hollywood to what it is today. Star Wars, for example, draws heavily from Japanese cinema. Hidden Fortress I think? So obviously many people in Hollywood have always liked to watch Asian films, actors included.

 

[dramatis]

The author captured pretty well the ill feeling I got when I watched the Doctor Strange trailer.

That said, Hollywood is probably working on stuff with more Asians in because of China, but I don't think those efforts will be seen for a while yet. Plus there's a question of China wanting in on the international market themselves. I think more Asians are going to be the inevitable future.

 

[El Topo]

In the case of the MCU, a lot of challenges they face with Asian characters are because of the source material. Many of their Asian and Asian-related characters were conceived years ago as horrid stereotypes of Asian people and Marvel is right in recognizing that. The problem is that they rarely if never go the other way. You won't see an Asian Tony Stark, Asian Hawkeye, Asian Doctor Strange, Asian Scarlet Witch or Asian Quicksilver.

There is no inherent reason why Strange couldn't have a different ethnicity or gender. The same is true for many of their characters. Heck, given e.g. the success of Guardians of the Galaxy you could also ask why they are not bringing more unknown/underused characters into the MCU in the first place. The idea that Marvel should get a free pass because of their own, decades-long horrendous treatment of certain groups (notably people of color and women) in comics is asinine.

Edit:
I think that's what you're saying, I just wanted to reiterate this.

 

[Blackhead]

Daniel Wu, currently starring Into the Badlands, worked this way.



Daniel Henney found a strong career as an actor in Korea.



Maggie Q found a career in Hong Kong first.


None could speak the language, but still found opportunity.



As I've pointed out elsewhere, the star-driven picture is mostly a myth and crutch these days, not based in any reality.

Here's a result from crunching the hard data.



http://www.vulture.com/2012/07/why-stars-dont-matter-gavin-polone.html





Notable quote:


A film like Strange is being sold on one thing and one thing only:

Daniel Wu and Enter the Badlands.
Maggie Q, both appeared in a entertaining bad movie called Naked Weapon
Rapper Jin I guess.

Jin :O. I knew the Hong Kong scene and the Kpop peeps but Jin I had no idea. Why aren't there more people going through Japan? Is it because Japan entertainment is dominated by animation? What about China?

 

[Glass Rebel]

There is no inherent reason why Strange couldn't have a different ethnicity or gender. The same is true for many of their characters. Heck, given e.g. the success of Guardians of the Galaxy you could also ask why they are not bringing more unknown/underused characters into the MCU in the first place. The idea that Marvel should get a free pass because of their own, decades-long horrendous treatment of certain groups (notably people of color and women) in comics is asinine.

Yes, that is what I am saying.

 

[Sho_Nuff82]

I like the casting of Swinton. She does the plucky sage thing rather well (Constantine).

ScarJo is legitimately the only female actress who can carry am action movie by herself right now. So while she's horribly miscast, I can understand going for that Lucy bank.

 

[BronsonLee]

Why are people bringing up The Last Samurai and The Forbidden Kingdom

In Last Samurai, the entire point of the movie is that Tom Cruise is white, does not belong where he is whatsoever, and yet comes to be accepted and find a place in life after being lost for so long.

In Forbidden Kingdom, this dumb kid gets knocked off a building and goes to a fantasy land where everybody does crazy kung fu shit and it's basically Journey to the West

And Kingdom was VERY clearly marketed with Li and Chan as the stars, so just posting a character poster is very disingenuous. Anagrano's name isn't even on the cover IIRC, it's Li and Chan together

 

[BLACKLAC]

I don't know much about Dr. Strange or the character Tilda is playing but it was very jarring to see this temple in Tibet with all these adornments we've seen in cinema and TV time and time again and then the person at the center isn't chow yun fat but some old white lady with a crappy bald cap on. Wtf?

Not a bald cap.

http://www.ew.com/article/2016/04/13/doctor-strange-tilda-swinton-bald

When this writer visited the Doctor Strange set in London last year, the fact that Swinton was playing her character — a superpowered mystic called the Ancient One — as hairless was something the actress had asked Marvel Studios boss Kevin Feige to request I not reveal.

“She said, ‘I need to talk to you about something,’” Feige explained at the time. “I said, ‘Do you not want him to say you’re bald?’ ‘That would be wonderful.’ ‘Okay. I’ll ask.’”

Subsequently, Swinton made her own case when I spoke with her on set. “You’re not going to talk about what I look like, because we mustn’t!” she insisted. “Please! It would be such fun if people don’t know anything.”

Swinton’s decision to play the character without hair, of course, feeds into the mystery of the role’s sex. “Look, she’s a chameleon in everything she does,” said Feige of the actress. “She can harness this amazing androgynous sense. So, we use the term ‘her’ and ‘she’ in the film. But, other than that, it’s very androgynous. Because it doesn’t matter.”

 

[old manatee]

I'm not watching a movie where people refer to Scarlett Johansson as Motoko Kusanagi with a straight face. Eat me Hollywood.

 

[UnemployedVillain]

Yeah. But which one stood the test of time better? MK is just embarassing today, while Street FIghter is so bad, it's better watch than when it was released.

MK is objectively and factually better than Street Fighter: Let's make Guile the main character because AMURICA and we forgot about Ken, but let's cast JCVD for star power even though he can barely speak english

 

[Dali]

Not a bald cap.

http://www.ew.com/article/2016/04/13/doctor-strange-tilda-swinton-bald

Noted. Point still stands they are in some Asian city, in an ancient Asian temple, surrounded by Asian people and the guru is a pale, white woman. I mean i don't think having an Asian master would really be a stereotype if that's what they are trying to avoid. It would be like having a white person playing the role of the president of the black student union at Gambling.

Edit: and I can only assume it was this post that lead to me immediately getting an ad written in Korean at the top of the page.

 

[antispin]

Didn't say "bearded white sorcerer guy with a cape". E.g. i could see Chiwetel Ejiofor as a good Strange with proper beard. He has a good body language. Like the character he played in Firefly movie (the operative).

But let's say they would cast Charlize Theron as Strange... i could not really relate to her as "Dr. Strange", no matter how good she plays.

I don't know... I think Tilda would make a good Dr. Strange.

 

[Maintenance]

I find the GitS case worse to be honest, at least they should've changed the character like Edge of Tomorrow did.

 

[DrForester]

I'm mixed on the Oriental.

On one hand, yeah, they could have gotten an Asian woman to play her, and should have gotten an Asian woman to play her.

On the other hand, I love Tilda Swinton in just about everything.

 

[S.Holmes]

Seems like a very clickbait article done in a very amateurish way. I mean how are you going to claim Mordo is a sidekick to Strange ? REALLY ?

Clearly there's a serious diversity issue in Hollywood. Clearly whitewashing is a very important issue. But Marvel is one of the better studios out there when it comes to that. In Strange you have an asian guy, a black guy, a white guy and a woman (I know all are British) but still. How is that whitewashing ? I love Ditko's comics but it had a lot of racist stereotypical undertones making Wong more like his servant and such or associating every Asian with the mystic and martial arts side (especially the character of Ancient One). Considering most movies these days (i'm looking at you Gods of Egypt) are the epitomy of whitewashing I wouldn't go as far as claiming Marvel to be guilty of that. At least they're making an effort which is more than I can about most.

More asian actors/actresses should be getting prominent roles in Hollywood.
But they should avoid to cast them in stereotypical roles. Nothing upsets me more than stereotyping. Which is why I'm glad Marvel avoided that and went with a woman for the role. I remember reading that they were interested in Michelle Yeoh but that it didn't work out. Still Tilda Swinton is a good choice as she has that universal androgynous look. I prefer to see the Ancient as someone not bound by their gender.

 

[jdstorm]

And even they killed the Asian guy as soon as he landed the white girl ;-;

Actually she was Israeli. Which is its own culture. Plus they couldn't help that since he technically died on film close to a decade ago in Tokyo Drift

 

[Chariot]

I find the GitS case worse to be honest, at least they should've changed the character like Edge of Tomorrow did.

I don't know why they even bothered to get the IP in the first place. You could just rip it off and make it full american. With this half-assed approach with the names and the hair, you're just pissing people off and adding nothing.

 

[El Topo]

But Marvel is one of the better studios out there when it comes to that.

The studio that'll have its first movie about a female superhero 18 movies in? Are they really better if we just look at the numbers, e.g. if compared to the DC or FOX superhero movies? Honest question.
Also I'd like to add that "The others are worse" is not a good defense, especially when the bar is so low.

 

[BLACKLAC]

The studio that'll have its first movie about a female superhero 18 movies in? Are they really better if we just look at the numbers, e.g. if compared to the DC or FOX superhero movies? Honest question.
Also I'd like to add that "The others are worse" is not a good defense, especially when the bar is so low.

You mean the same studio that has been around for only 8 years?

 

[Alienfan]

Ghost in the shell isn't whitewashing when the character was fucking white to begin with. God this is one of the most head-scratching controversies in a very long time, there's real discussion to be had about whitewashing in Hollywood, but this is just isn't it.

 

[Htown]

The studio that'll have its first movie about a female superhero 18 movies in? Are they really better if we just look at the numbers, e.g. if compared to the DC or FOX superhero movies? Honest question.
Also I'd like to add that "The others are worse" is not a good defense, especially when the bar is so low.

To be fair, basically 90% of Marvel's best and most prominent female characters are locked up in the X-Men license.

Ghost in the shell isn't whitewashing when the character was fucking white to begin with. God this is one of the most head-scratching controversies in a very long time, there's real discussion to be had about whitewashing in Hollywood, but this is just isn't it.

the character wasn't white to begin with, are you kidding?

 

[Alienfan]

To be fair, basically 90% of Marvel's best and most prominent female characters are locked up in the X-Men license.



the character wasn't white to begin with, are you kidding?

Um, yeah she is?

 

[Chariot]

the character wasn't white to begin with, are you kidding?

That's one advantage good characters of African descent have - a lot more difficult for white people to claim that they were white in the first place. Not that they wouldn't try anyway.

Um, yeah she is?

Buddy. Ghost in the Shell is a japanese manga, by a japanese guy made for a japanese audience. A story set in future japan, discussing japanese issues with a Major working for a japanese agency with a japanese name. And you think she would be white? Get your head out of your armpit.

 

[old manatee]

Um, yeah she is?

Are you going to back that up with anything?