George Oscar Bluth II
Banned
Exactly, and I love Spider-Man 2.
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Let's talk about a small scene from Raimi's Spider-Man 2...
- Thread starter SCULLIBUNDO
- Start date
Yup...
Pie and Beans
Look for me on the local news, I'll be the guy arrested for trying to burn down a Nintendo exec's house.
I'm not as much a fan of Spider-Man 2 as most of the world (you lost yer powers coz ya didn't belieeeeeve! nonsense), but 1 & 2 really nail the human Peter Parker and the formula, just whiffing on a confident quippy Spidey.
All the Spidey sequels since have got the action and the quips, but nowhere near the humanity of Raimi's films. Also no JJJ because YA BLEW IT
All the Spidey sequels since have got the action and the quips, but nowhere near the humanity of Raimi's films. Also no JJJ because YA BLEW IT
Subpar Spatula
Banned
We're at this point in the movie discussion adventure?
Discussing movies isn't discreditng. Geeeeeeez. That's some weird victim mentality.
Glass Rebel
Member
Subpar Spatula
Banned
Using Raimi as a comparison to illustrate why Homecoming isn't that good isn't discrediting.
If you dislike people talking critically about your favorite thing then leave the conversation?
Glass Rebel
Member
You are not talking critically, you are dismissing people's arguments for how Homecoming is that good. Because you don't like them.
People have been talking about the movie's strenghts in the OT and the same shit happened.
Subpar Spatula
Banned
I haven't dismissed an argument.
By the same three people funny enough...
well that video sent me to this video which has me laughing like crazy. tobey is the goat grunter/screamer
I haven't read Spider-Man comics so I have no idea which one of these series are the most faithful to the comics, but to me Raimi's Spider-Man movies are still the best movies of the bunch. Best MOVIES, I don't know if they're the best Spider-Man movies, but they are movies that I enjoy more than the other Spider-man movies.
Homecoming was pretty fun and entertaining but lacked the heart of Raimi's and didn't have that emotion sweep for me.
Homecoming was pretty fun and entertaining but lacked the heart of Raimi's and didn't have that emotion sweep for me.
Zvonimir Boban
Banned
lol nah.
He's a stubborn son of a bitch who always does what he feels is right, even if that means rebelling against authority. Shit, his big hero moment in the first movie was disobeying orders to go rescue Bucky and the rest of the POWs.
Cap was never a military man, the military was just a way to help him to do what he felt was right at that time.
- he was made aware that these weren't faceless bad guys but real people with families
- dude was selling powerful weapons to other criminals
I think both points go hand in hand. Vulture wasn't just stealing from big governments, he was stealing powerful technology and selling it to criminals. Criminals who will rob stores, banks, etc. And these weapons were crazy powerful, and could easily cause collateral damage. It's not as simple as the underdog vs the 1%.
For the first point, I think Peter realized Vulture was going after the big stash. He knew villains with Avenger's tech/etc. would be a massive problem. And he knew only he could stop it (well he tried calling Happy but that didn't work out).
One thing I really loved though was even after the Vulture threatened to kill Peter's family and friends, dropped a building on him and left him to die, he still saved Vulture's life at the end of the film.
For the first point, I think Peter realized Vulture was going after the big stash. He knew villains with Avenger's tech/etc. would be a massive problem. And he knew only he could stop it (well he tried calling Happy but that didn't work out).
One thing I really loved though was even after the Vulture threatened to kill Peter's family and friends, dropped a building on him and left him to die, he still saved Vulture's life at the end of the film.
radios shipping overview
Member
Shared universes and planned sequels allow so many excuses to be made for bad filmmaking. That is, until the sequels stop coming and people have to acknowledge a movie's faults as they are.
Yeah spiderman 2 had heart. Spiderman homecoming is a fun ride i guess. lacked any emotion whatsoever and by the end i couldnt care less about peter and how well things turned out for him.
Completely empty for me, just like most of the MCU. Just lots of quips and a fun ride but nothing more then that and thats ok, its just a comic book film.
Completely empty for me, just like most of the MCU. Just lots of quips and a fun ride but nothing more then that and thats ok, its just a comic book film.
Thunder Monkey
Banned
I love that scene.
It's 100% on Rosemary Harris.
I just can't stand Maguire's portrayal of Peter.
It's like Raimi said "Play every scene as if you're on the highly functional area of the autism spectrum."
Which if he did... that might excuse it and make Maguire one of the better actors out there. Speaking as someone on that spectrum... it never left my mind when he was on screen.
It's not what I think of when I think Peter. I just chalked it up to bad performance. Could have been well-intentioned, but bad direction though.
Still a great scene. But one of many that have emotional depth, not because of Peter, but because of the actors surrounding him.
I really love these movies as movies. Even as superhero movies they are a cut above. But I don't particularly like them as Spider-Man movies.
That make sense?
It's 100% on Rosemary Harris.
I just can't stand Maguire's portrayal of Peter.
It's like Raimi said "Play every scene as if you're on the highly functional area of the autism spectrum."
Which if he did... that might excuse it and make Maguire one of the better actors out there. Speaking as someone on that spectrum... it never left my mind when he was on screen.
It's not what I think of when I think Peter. I just chalked it up to bad performance. Could have been well-intentioned, but bad direction though.
Still a great scene. But one of many that have emotional depth, not because of Peter, but because of the actors surrounding him.
I really love these movies as movies. Even as superhero movies they are a cut above. But I don't particularly like them as Spider-Man movies.
That make sense?
Aaron Strife
Banned
That scene has always stuck with me, I'm glad someone else recognizes it.
broncobuster
Banned
That was a good read.
The catalyst was putting two and two together that the Vulture was gonna pull one last job and no one but him knew about it.
I loved Homecoming but no even right out the theater I didn't once think it touched SM2. Raimi SM1 maybe. Maybe. Although I think SM1 is a better film I'm not a big fan of how campy it is, and the CGI and choreography are weaker. Homecoming is just kinda dumb fun.
WrenchNinja
Member
I can't recall a "I'm broke" moment in Homecoming. Like maybe Peter asking Aunt May for a new backpack? His dopey original costume? The broken old looking phone he uses? It was more his conflict with losing out on normal high school experiences like hanging out with the decathlon kids and the homecoming dance and having to be Spider-Man instead. There should have been more with May trying to illustrate his background.
Civil War had the dumpster diving and that showed Peter's economic background in 5 minutes
Civil War had the dumpster diving and that showed Peter's economic background in 5 minutes
Thunder Monkey
Banned
One of Tobey's better performances in the series.
Thunder Monkey
Banned
Rosemary Harris is on point through the series.
Her worst moment is the Gobby attack in 1.
Overacted to Shatnerian extreme.
Her worst moment is the Gobby attack in 1.
Overacted to Shatnerian extreme.
Cap doesn't change at all. Only thing that changes is the world around him.
He spends 3 films centered around saving Bucky and saying fuck all to everything else.
SporeCrawler
Member
MCU spiderman is much younger than Raimi spiderman.
Thunder Monkey
Banned
Now I didn't want to say it, because I figured there would be a dogpile and backlash... but I liked Homecoming enough... but I'd still place it behind both SM2 and 1... and everyone should know I'm not that huge a fan of Raimi's SM1.
But it at least had those moments. Homecoming has a great Spider-Man. Best I've seen on screen so far, and it's light years better than the Amazing series... but it really lacks the moments Sculli and others are pointing out in this thread.
It's a fairly good comedy though.
But it at least had those moments. Homecoming has a great Spider-Man. Best I've seen on screen so far, and it's light years better than the Amazing series... but it really lacks the moments Sculli and others are pointing out in this thread.
It's a fairly good comedy though.
SporeCrawler
Member
SM2 is still the best super hero movie. No MCU movie or Nolan Batman comes close (maybe Thor Dark World). Homecoming was never going to top it.
I mean, the most interesting thing about the character is the love/hate relationship he has with being Spider-Man to begin with. It's hard, it sucks, and it puts a serious strain on his relationships, mental health, and career prospects. He probably would have earned that dope penthouse apartment himself if he could actually focus on his studies, but it's because of Spider-Man that he's pretty much going to be living in a shit hole and not be able to support his aunt. Imo, at least, the "hate" part of that love/hate relationship is far more interesting to see and a lot more important to the core of what makes the character appeal to so many people around the world.
I don't necessarily even disagree with you completely, I do think Raimi could have done a better job of highlighting the other side of that coin as well, I just think Homecoming went pretty much in the complete opposite direction which doesn't work either. It was touched on a little bit with him having to skip the homecoming dance but not as much as I'd have liked. And now
that May knows...
FinaruDensetsu
Member
OP what you described about homecoming is literally every single MCU movie. It's dumb, whack you over the head, unsubtle, heavily focus tested movie making that appeals to the general masses.
Vampfox
Banned
How is he suppose to look?
He's trying to stop a train and it's clear that he's really straining to stop it.
There's nothing wrong with Toby's face.
It would be more interesting if the dramatic stakes of the scene didn't directly lead to an action set piece. There is really no emotional toll in Aunt May's house being foreclosed other than yet another on-the-nose reminder that Peter's life is trash at that point, further prodding him to give up being Spiderman.
The scene where he tells aunt may his role in Uncle Ben's death is far more impactful and informative of Peter's character.
The scene where he tells aunt may his role in Uncle Ben's death is far more impactful and informative of Peter's character.
I hope he gets the next reboot.
Join the rest of us in forgetting that exists.
The Raimi and Nolan trilogies remind me just how much of a assembly line machine the MCU is, lacking in heart and soul. That kinda depresses me, that this is what is applauded as superhero franchises at its finest. That's not to say all MCU movies are hollow spectacles, off the top of my head, the first Iron Man and the Captain America trilogy had this aspect buy that's about it.
Zvonimir Boban
Banned
yep
I thought that Spider Man 2 went way over the top and hammy to demonstrate how shitty Peter's life was. I thought Homecoming handled Peter's conflict between his superhero and personal life in a much more subtle and nuanced way. That scene where
perfectly illustrates the "great power and great responsibility" mantra from the comics.
Peter looks longingly at Liz and her friends at the hotel pool and wanting to join them in doing normal teen stuff instead of catching Vulture
SporeCrawler
Member
i dont know they have consistent quality and a continuing story thats the main reason why i go back watching them. as a series the MCU is unbeatable at this point, although the single movies usually are not incredibly great (there are some exceptions like captain america winter soldier, civil war and antman)
QuantumZebra
Member
I'm staying out of here cause Homecoming spoilers but I will say I highly doubt it comes close to SM1 or 2.
2 is the best superhero flick of all time (haven't seen Logan or Wonder Woman yet though).
SM3 should have canned Sandman but it is nowhere as bad as some people think.
Topher Grace was a good Venom, too.
2 is the best superhero flick of all time (haven't seen Logan or Wonder Woman yet though).
SM3 should have canned Sandman but it is nowhere as bad as some people think.
Topher Grace was a good Venom, too.
This always fit their depiction of Peter Parker. That's his idea of cool, and the movie is making fun of him for it. At his worst, controlled by a symbiote that unleashes his darkest impulses, he just becomes a douche.
Wow I need to rewatch this film. Maybe college age sets up for much more interesting characters
Yeah he does, by the end of the movie he's basically focused on being Spider-Man entirely so much so that it's not only to the deteriment of his love life, but to his school, social life and just in general his life as a person. The scene link posted by Scullinbindo has MJ and Harry both saying "Peter we haven't seen you in a very long time, where have you been?" and his only reply is that he's been busy. He's not only not dating MJ, at this point he barely has or sees any friends now because of his responsibility. That was the last part of his arc at the end of the first movie.
Eh? GotG vol.2 is my favorite MCU movie thus far and I can't even agree with this. Characters aren't given enough time to just allow themselves to really emote for me to think it had a harder emotional "punch".
Subpar Spatula
Banned
I think the MCU is the first movie franchise to reach pop music level of factory assembly.
All this thread has done is further convince me that there will never be a "perfect" Spider-Man movie because Spider-Man means something different to everybody, and everyone has different criteria for what constitutes an "accurate" Spider-Man film. So every one of his movies is going to have a significant "Not my Spider-Man" contingent arguing against it. Like I'm sure a lot of people became fans from reading the comics, but what does that even mean? Spider-Man comics have had a lot of cooks in the kitchen over the decades, and each creative team brought their own flavor that some people will swear by and others won't. Bendis' Ultimate Spider-Man is now old enough to be many people's childhood Spidey, and he is a much different character than the Spidey that Stan Lee wrote. I mean, even Spidey under JMS' pen is remarkably different than he is as currently written by Dan Slott.
That said, I personally think the idea some people have brought up that Spider-Man 2 isn't true to the comics is laughable. It follows Amazing Spider-Man #50 practically beat for beat (even bits like Peter ignoring a crime in progress shortly after he gives up being Spider-Man, and rescuing someone as Peter Parker shortly before deciding to become Spider-Man again are in the comic). Outside of the opening fight scene he doesn't really crack jokes in the original issue either, spending most of the story in angst. The psychosomatic loss of powers angle (and Doc Ock as the antagonist) in the movie is right from Amazing Spider-Man Annual #1, which also had an undercurrent of Peter wanting to just have a normal life.
Sam Raimi clearly loved the early Lee/Ditko/Romita Spider-Man, and aside from Spidey being mostly silent in his movies I think he nailed that incarnation of the character pretty well. Spider-Man 2 is a fantastic film.
That said, I personally think the idea some people have brought up that Spider-Man 2 isn't true to the comics is laughable. It follows Amazing Spider-Man #50 practically beat for beat (even bits like Peter ignoring a crime in progress shortly after he gives up being Spider-Man, and rescuing someone as Peter Parker shortly before deciding to become Spider-Man again are in the comic). Outside of the opening fight scene he doesn't really crack jokes in the original issue either, spending most of the story in angst. The psychosomatic loss of powers angle (and Doc Ock as the antagonist) in the movie is right from Amazing Spider-Man Annual #1, which also had an undercurrent of Peter wanting to just have a normal life.
Sam Raimi clearly loved the early Lee/Ditko/Romita Spider-Man, and aside from Spidey being mostly silent in his movies I think he nailed that incarnation of the character pretty well. Spider-Man 2 is a fantastic film.
Razgriz-Specter
Member
Yeah, Martin from Double Toasted described it that way and honestly after hearing that it really doesn't bother me all that much anymore.