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Marvel's Daredevil S2 *Spoiler Thread* |OT| Elektra Boogaloo - March 18th on Netflix

It's neither. Not everything needs to be an overarching arc.

Exactly. The idea that his concussion should have been stretched over half the season is silly at best.

DD pushed himself too far and could have been killed had Castle not respected him. The whole point was to establish DD's vulnerability and they did that. Mission accomplished,
 

Red

Member
They could have used it as a jumping off point to have Matt learn to use his other senses to track enemy movement which would then lead to a much more satisfactory way to deal with the Hand (other than their exhales).
Exactly. It was not utilized.
 

V_Arnold

Member
Exactly. It was not utilized.

Except it was. He could not have seen coming that he would need to deal with that in his moments of panic. Concussions like that are not to be taken lightly. It would have been wildly out of character to show him go "ok,maybe I meet undeads tomorrow, lets train for this".

Also, its very CW-ish to have some main theme for an episode then present that theme as a solution as if it was precognition.
 

Red

Member
Nah. The deafness was pointless. We already know the injury was significant—he was shot in the head. Showing him sit against a wall and scream for four seconds until he gets better is nothing, it's a throwaway moment that could have been given significance by illustrating the stakes. If Matt is presented with a problem he cannot solve because of his deafness it shows us what he has to lose by being careless, leaving himself open to attack, even just continuing his Daredevil career. If Matt is deaf for thirty seconds and gets frightened but then gets better it shows us nothing. It's redundant information.

I think you are being deliberately misleading by saying Matt would think to "train for undeads." But if he was truly worried about becoming deaf, and wanted to continue his crusade, he would have to compensate and become more skilled in other ways. It would instigate conflict, and allow him to grow, to be forced to overcome a second disability.
 

Piku_Ringo

Banned
Can someone please take that scene from Daredevil S2 where Matt's getting his head slammed against the desk by Kingpin and shop Snyder and Kevin Tsujihara's faces in?
 

Mariolee

Member
I love the show but theres a bunch of plot holes. For example:

5gJI0Be.gif

I thought this was INCREDIBLY well done and phenomenal acting.
 
There actually might be a plothole with that. The noise of the shattered glass in the Punisher fight still fucks him up, because of the after effects. Probably not too much later the noise of a gunshot (to remove the chains) doesn't pain him one bit.

,,The hole" wasn't a plothole though. This season clearly wasn't made with conclusions in mind, but building plots that will continue into season 3/defenders.
 

SJRB

Gold Member
..didn't they dig the hole to dig up the ancient resurrection coffin?

At least, that's how I interpreted it, never thought anything else of it.
 
..didn't they dig the hole to dig up the ancient resurrection coffin?

At least, that's how I interpreted it, never thought anything else of it.

Some people think it's Fin Fang Foom, but as others have said this is the studio that can't spring for the Avengers Tower in its CG budget...
 

V_Arnold

Member
Nah. The deafness was pointless. We already know the injury was significant—he was shot in the head. Showing him sit against a wall and scream for four seconds until he gets better is nothing, it's a throwaway moment that could have been given significance by illustrating the stakes. If Matt is presented with a problem he cannot solve because of his deafness it shows us what he has to lose by being careless, leaving himself open to attack, even just continuing his Daredevil career. If Matt is deaf for thirty seconds and gets frightened but then gets better it shows us nothing. It's redundant information.

I think you are being deliberately misleading by saying Matt would think to "train for undeads." But if he was truly worried about becoming deaf, and wanted to continue his crusade, he would have to compensate and become more skilled in other ways. It would instigate conflict, and allow him to grow, to be forced to overcome a second disability.

Well, its okay to disagree. The POINT of that scene was to show how and WHY Matt keeps calling in sick days which eventually turn out to become a major issue within the Nellson and Murdock, therefore it had a point, and it was good at that.

Also, him being a bit pragmatic, I think it was obvious that if you have an issue with everything becoming a screeching sound and then you go blind, you will NOT start to "Train", but either try to get help OR just go and stay where you are, moving as little as possible. He did the latter.
 

Nizz

Member
Finished the season last night, all in all I felt like everything was improved from the first season (which I really liked). Jon Bernthal nailed the Punisher, the scene in the cemetary with him and Daredevil where he told the story about his daughter at school was touching. And man, when Potter gave Daredevil the billy club in the finale episode I had a big smile.

The one thing though that I feel the terrible 2003 movie got right over the show is the visualization of Daredevil's powers. The show taps into his sense of hearing heavily, but I wish they would explore his other heightened senses a bit more. If they could incorporate his sense of touch, taste and smell more often.

I loved the in-universe explanation for having to change his headpiece, new mask fits and looks a lot better now.
 

Red

Member
Matt doesn't call off because he can't hear for a minute, though. That's not why he keeps shirking the lawyer biz.

Also, Matt is the last character on this show I would describe as pragmatic. The conflicts between him and Castle, him and Elektra, him and Stick, him and Karen, him and Claire, and him and Foggy are all based around his rejection of pragmatism. He is an idealist. He is a dreamer.
 

Snake

Member
Overall, quite a good season. Better than season 1 in some ways, except for, notably, Daredevil himself. High points were Elektra and Punisher. Low points were too much generic ninja action.

Punisher and Elektra both shine–if for no other reason–on the strength of their casting. They are both standout choices who bring enough gravitas to their scenes to make up for whatever deficiencies the writing is leaving them with. It didn't shock me that Jon Bernthal was good, but I wasn't expecting Punisher to be so well realized. Elektra, on the other hand, did shock me a bit. Elodie Yung had a great onscreen presence and I was constantly surprised that she was selling the material she was being given. I didn't seek out the marketing for the season, but from what I did see Elektra was M.I.A., so the fact that she had a large [and good] impact on the season was a surprise.

There were a lot fewer outright bad scenes this season. S1 had a number of cringeworthy Foggy scenes, but he was perfectly fine here. Karen is a little worse this season, but not bad except for her Hero monologue in the finale, which was very weak.

The fight scenes/choreography are not as good as season 1 in final estimation. Episode 3 is definitely good, but there's little else to appreciate through the rest of the season aside from a number of brief, thrilling moves that Elektra and Daredevil get in occasionally. The exception is that The Punisher's action is good throughout. Overall Season 1 simply had a much more raw feel to its fights, while Season 2's Daredevil never feels like he's in any danger whatsoever.

Finale was weak at parts. First, it felt noticeably worse in terms of editing. Then the use of the Punisher at the end was a huge missed opportunity. He just shows up and shoots one guy then nods and bows out for the season. Could have easily provided support against a greater number of the nigh-unlimited ninjas and made that scene have a lot more oomph. Then came Karen's aforementioned bad monologue, followed by the never-interesting notion of a character who just died being resurrected. I didn't hate the finale, but it was the weakest episode of the season by far and that's a shame.

Seasonal structure was superior to Season 1. Four episodes of a Punisher arc, a few episodes-long Elektra arc, then a convergence of the major plotlines, ending in a branch-out for each. Much better than season 1 in this respect, which was just a slow burn of Daredevil and Kingpin's gradual entry onto the scene.

Season 1 did a good job of establishing that, while Daredevil is super-humanly capable, he is still blind and has certain limits. Season 2 essentially treats Daredevil like he can literally do anything and see anything. His surroundings and how sound interacts with them and gives him a "picture" are practically non-existent. As a consequence, Daredevil himself is a lot less engaging of an onscreen hero. Daredevil was probably my biggest disappointment with the season, even though it wasn't Charlie Cox's fault, and DD wasn't actually bad in any way.

The antagonists were a definite weak point. Nobu was inferior to his Season 1 appearances, and wasn't nearly enough to carry the final episodes this time around. The Blacksmith didn't need to be much more than he was, and Clancy Brown was fine, but what happens after he's revealed is mostly forgettable. To the extent that The Punisher is treated like an antagonist in the first arc, the season is well served. But that's about it. To be fair, Kingpin's appearances are also good even though they're limited.

While the ninjas did not rise to the level of being embarrassing, they were mostly a distraction from everything else I wanted from the season and basically all of the action surrounding them was uninteresting.

If I had to rate this season compared with season 1 they would both get pretty equal [solid] scores, just with varying strengths and weaknesses.
 

Burt

Member
Good season, liked it better than the first, but man, the show can be idiotically audacious in the questions it fails to have its characters ask.

Like, "What's that hole for?"

Or, "I am the Black Sky? Why am I the Black Sky? Forget it, I am the Black Sky!"

Or, [anything Stick ever says]

Or the at least half dozen other times over the course of the season that I had to say to myself, "That just happened. Why aren't they acting like that just happened or that they aren't allowed to talk about it?"

Seriously though, someone please give me a Black Sky rundown that makes sense beyond the reductive explanation of "Black Sky bad, no let ninjas get Black Sky."
 

Zekes!

Member
Me and the girlfriend just finished S2 tonight. I really liked it, I felt like it was an overall improvement over S1. Everything to do with the Punisher was awesome, Elektra really grew on me and I surprisingly ended up liking that there was a bunch of stuff going on at the same time. I was also weirdly stoked when he got the billy club, it felt like a long time coming.

Excited to see where Season 3 goes. It feels like there's some set up for a Born Again like arc eventually.

I keep saying this, but I really hope this show goes on long enough that we get a Mark Waid influenced season with Matt wearing the 'I'm not Daredevil' Xmas sweater
 

raphier

Banned
Nah. The deafness was pointless. We already know the injury was significant—he was shot in the head. Showing him sit against a wall and scream for four seconds until he gets better is nothing, it's a throwaway moment that could have been given significance by illustrating the stakes. If Matt is presented with a problem he cannot solve because of his deafness it shows us what he has to lose by being careless, leaving himself open to attack, even just continuing his Daredevil career. If Matt is deaf for thirty seconds and gets frightened but then gets better it shows us nothing. It's redundant information.

I think you are being deliberately misleading by saying Matt would think to "train for undeads." But if he was truly worried about becoming deaf, and wanted to continue his crusade, he would have to compensate and become more skilled in other ways. It would instigate conflict, and allow him to grow, to be forced to overcome a second disability.


"Inconsistent thematic elements" is a hallmark of poor writing.

Fucking really? Sometimes it shows them in a bar getting waisted for no reason, other than just to get to the next plot. It's called breather moment. I don't just know how can it ever bother you.
 

Shahadan

Member
I want season 3 now ;(

More trials, less ninjas plz.


Edit: Sometimes I forget they're even lawyers. I mean, super hearing and shit is useful in court, use that in your show ffs.
Also shame Reyes is dead, she was a cool adversary until her last episode where she was suddenly all "mah daughter! plllleeeeaaase I'm sorry! Look I'm wearing a sweater I'm a good person now! " which basically destroyed her character anyway.
 
I thought for sure the whole concussion/deaf thing was going to be a re-occurring thing throughout the season but it wasn't. Instead they introduced silent ninjas.
 

KonradLaw

Member
Matt's powers seems weird. Since he couldn't sense the ninjas when they were sillent it means he doesn't have the radar sense. In which case how the hell can he move this good? Notice inanimate objects or tell when a container is full of something.
 
Matt's powers seems weird. Since he couldn't sense the ninjas when they were sillent it means he doesn't have the radar sense. In which case how the hell can he move this good? Notice inanimate objects or tell when a container is full of something.
Isnt his radar basically like a sonar though? The sound echoing on the surfaces is what I thought made him "see" or sense his surroundings. Ninja's being silent in a silent environment would basically make them invisible to him.

I really dont know how it works though lol, and there are some weird things like him being able to know how many fingers Foggy was holding up at some point..
 
I don't get it why did Matt tell Karen that he is Daredevil? After avoiding everything, closing his office, losing his best friend and focusing on being Daredevil.

The Hand felt nonthreatening in the whole season, Punisher arc was way more interesting then The Hand arc.

Every finale of Marvel Netflix show's have been disappointing.
 

KonradLaw

Member
I don't get it why did Matt tell Karen that he is Daredevil? After avoiding everything, closing his office, losing his best friend and focusing on being Daredevil.
To get in her pants?
Also..ending with that scene sucked. Feels like such a cop out. I always love looking at reactions of people when they learn superhero's identity. Unless they start S3 in exact same moment I will feel cheated.
 
To get in her pants?
Also..ending with that scene sucked. Feels like such a cop out. I always love looking at reactions of people when they learn superhero's identity. Unless they start S3 in exact same moment I will feel cheated.

Yeah I love those moments as well, I hope he was dreaming or something lol.
 
They really should have just allowed the ninjas.

They were so lame, with their little tryhard runs with their swords on their back, they were so fucking lame.

And I'm pretty sure the random yakuza dudes were more effectively dangerous than them.

Nobu being the final boss was super lame as well.

Also all the black sky stuff, super lame.

Electra's death flag conversation and death was also super lame.
 

Kain

Member
The best part of the season was the Punisher by a mile. Maaaaaaaaaaaan was he cool, no half-measures or compromises, he just kicks ass. Elektra was cool, too.

So what exactly is inside Elektra that they want so bad? Demon? Power? Spirit? So confused.

Yeah, that was the worst part of the season, what's with Elektra? They want her blood, she has some kind of magic inside, what? Also what about the hole?

Also ninjas everywhere, they were so, so, so lame.
 

Ophelion

Member
So what exactly is inside Elektra that they want so bad? Demon? Power? Spirit? So confused.

Well, the Hand have always been kind of an apocalypse cult masquerading as a ninja dojo. I mean, in the comics they worship a demonic being literally just called The Beast. So I'm guessing she's comicbook ninja antichrist.

Which, this being a comics thing, in no way guarantees she'll end up being bad by the end. On the contrary, she'll probably end up using her ninja antichrist powers for..."good?"

I couldn't seriously say she'll end up a goodguy with a straight face. That girl is crazy. I can't imagine the events of this season are going to help her temperament either.
 
Just finished Season 2. A few things:

- The entire Punisher arc is easily among the best comic book related things ever shown on screen. Bernthal was terrific in the role. When he met the Kingpin, I completely lost my shit. The Blacksmith part felt a bit rushed and out of nowhere but it didn't diminish my enjoyment of everything that came before it.
- Speaking of which, the Fisk vs. Murdock scene was amazing if only to remind the viewer of how S1 was as much about the Kingpin's rise to power as it was about Daredevil.
- Karen really came into her own in this season. I'm still bummed that they killed off Ben but Karen sort of taking his mantle and following the Punisher/Blacksmith stuff allowed for some great stuff.
- They're really selling the hypocrisy and dickishness of Matt. It makes for a less likeable character but I'm curious to see where they take him in S3, especially since Nelson & Murdock (& Page) is done by the end of the show.
- The mystical ninja stuff was less exciting, not necessarily because it dealt with magic stuff but mostly because of the practically faceless enemy. Nobu was a cool one-off enemy in S1 and bringing him back for S2 should have only served to establish that the Hand possesses the ability to bring back people from the dead. There isn't much else to him and it was disappointing that he ended up being the final enemy. Now that they can bring Elektra back from the dead and have her lead the Hand, I'm a bit more confident that this part of the Daredevil universe can get more interesting.
- What was the point of Madame Gao returning? Last season they had a Steel Serpent tease, this time there was nothing. Felt a little bit out of place.
- The action was top notch for the most part. The staircase fight was amazing but I think the Punisher prison hallway fight was even better. It's only in the latter part of the show where I noticed that the fights were sometimes way too dark.
- Hogarth appearing was a nice touch. I know people complain about there not being enough crossovers in these things but I don't think the story would have benefitted from a JJ or Luke Cage appearance. These small bits of acknowledgement that these shows play in the same neighbourhood are enough for me.

I think I liked it overall a bit better than Daredevil S1
 
Isnt his radar basically like a sonar though? The sound echoing on the surfaces is what I thought made him "see" or sense his surroundings. Ninja's being silent in a silent environment would basically make them invisible to him.

I really dont know how it works though lol, and there are some weird things like him being able to know how many fingers Foggy was holding up at some point..

This is not how sonar works.

Echolocation works by bouncing sound off things and gauging how long it takes to return. It's entirely dependent on the shape and density of the object and has nothing to do with how much noise an object is making.

xDcSIAx.png
 
I enjoyed this season a lot. Punisher needs his own series and I wanna hear about it sooner rather than later. Elektra is also obviously gonna come back to life just like The Hand.

This is not how sonar works.

Echolocation works by bouncing sound off things and gauging how long it takes to return. It's entirely dependent on the shape and density of the object and has nothing to do with how much noise an object is making.

comic430.png

This made me LOL, but I think the other guys is fundamentally wrong, I don't think DD uses sonar to see things. I might be wrong though.
 

Rhaknar

The Steam equivalent of the drunk friend who keeps offering to pay your tab all night.
they established he DOES see, he sees a world on fire, in season 1

tumblr_nmm60vlo541tmsfhoo2_r1_500.gif


and in season 2 its like he can only "see" with super hearing
 

Ophelion

Member
This made me LOL, but I think the other guys is fundamentally wrong, I don't think DD uses sonar to see things. I might be wrong though.

It's called a "Sonar Sense" in the comics, but it uses actual sonar about as much as Superman actually uses X-Rays in his X-Ray Vision. They're just convenient quick phrases that convey the idea of what they can do, but people get all hung up on the nomenclature.
 
Just finished season 2

MY GOD!!!!!!!!!

Better than Season 1, which I hold in high regard.

This is one of the best shows I have ever seen. The writing, and how they keep quality over 13 episodes is amazing to me.

This is a incredible version of one of my favorite heroes in Daredevil.

Charlie Cox is a god damn Revelation.
John Bernthal is Balls to the wall, and acted the shit out of the script. this dude is a master at his craft.

Deborah Woll- I cant even write what I really want to. (banned, GF, etc....) Just wow.

This has been the best 26 episode start to almost any show I can think of.

10/10 and its not even debatable.
 
Count me in as another guy who thought Frank was going to mow down all the rooftop ninjas with the mini-gun. He doesn't even save DD in the end; just offs two ninjas that Matt could have handled on his own. I suppose they didn't want viewers to diminish DD and perceive Frank's violent methods as superior.
 

fanboi

Banned
The problem I have with DD is t even due to DD as a show, spoiler for Jessica Jones,
is because they are in the same place as bloody Killgrave that would just tell them to fuck of and he would rule the city

Silly yes I know :)
 

Zero-ELEC

Banned
The problem I have with DD is t even due to DD as a show, spoiler for Jessica Jones,
is because they are in the same place as bloody Killgrave that would just tell them to fuck of and he would rule the city

Silly yes I know :)

Kilgrave's dead, tho.
 

Zeta Oni

Member
Just finished the season, and all I can say is...

That pawn shop owner probably should have realized offering up little girls to the giant man paying with cash stacks for a police radio was not gonna end well...

I really hope we get a Punisher series now, cause while I had believed Thomas Jane would never be replaced, John Bernthal is now the Punisher in my eyes.
 
Just finished the season, and all I can say is...

That pawn shop owner probably should have realized offering up little girls to the giant man paying with cash stacks for a police radio was not gonna end well...

I really hope we get a Punisher series now, cause while I had believed Thomas Jane would never be replaced, John Bernthal is now the Punisher in my eyes.
umm, I'm not 100% but I'm pretty sure there were talks of Punisher getting a spinoff
 
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