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[EatChildren]

Man that Scientist Mordin video is the most impressive one yet. I know it's not combat and it's a simple short video, but it really makes me feel like they are right on target with this game. Getting bought by EA might have been the best thing for Bioware. No doubt the extra resources and budget have helped/

Which one, exactly? Link?

 

[Vamphuntr]

I wish they'd announce in detail what all the bonuses and requirements for character saves will be in ME2. I'm currently going through ME again due to losing my old Level 60 save (BAH!), and the OCD in me is going to want to do it again just to get the level 60 bonus.

Currently level 41 on Feros, with Virmire and Ilos to go, along with Bringing Down the Sky and Pinnacle Station. I also have a couple of minerals to go, otherwise I think I've exhausted all the secondary quests.

Well from what I understand there are no level 60 bonus per se. From what they said I understood that the higher your level, the more ressources and bonus you would get at the beginning of ME 2. At level 60 you would get the maximum ressources bonus possible. I could be wrong though since they changed their tune pretty much every week :lol (At first no NG+, now NG).

 

[Confidence Man]

Are they making the upgrading simplistic, or is it instead refined? Take the skill system. Mass Effect 2 has less skill levels, but we can assume that the skill advancement (ie: upgrading) will take as much time as it did in the original. Now looking back on the original, did putting one point on Decryption or any other stat really make a big difference? Nope. Most of the time stat increases were working towards the 'levels' of a stat that rewarded with souped up powers and what-not.

That's exactly the thought process that turned Deus Ex into Invisible War. Exactly. You can go back to interviews and they say the very same thing about why they "refined" things like weapon upgrades.

Harvey Smith: In the process of getting the game done, we came up with this maxim ... Less is ... No, not less is more ... "Lesser granularity." Some role-playing games are like "Our game is better, because our skills go from 1 to 100!" So you can have a dexterity of 97 or a dexterity of 96. And what's the difference? As a player I can't tell. That's a high degree of granularity. Maybe less granularity is better. Maybe a dexterity of 1 to 5 is even better, because the difference between 1 and 5 is huge. I can tell. I can even feel the difference between 2 and 3, it's drastic.

Ultimately the game was a disaster. The only thing anyone learned from it was not to start simplifying mechanics that no one ever had a problem with in favor of some flawed idea of aesthetic elegance.

And if you think just because it's Bioware they must know what they're doing you might need reminding that the great Warren Spector was out there telling everyone how great the deliberate streamlining of Invisible War was going to be.

 

[ZombieSupaStar]

Well let me just bring up Vampire: Bloodlines. It didn't have xp granted for killing or fighting anyone and yet its a great RPG.

bioware is no troika

and yes...i think im kinda serious :lol

 

[I <3 Memes]

Which one, exactly? Link?

http://www.gametrailers.com/video/exclusive-scientist-mass-effect/58986

 

[EatChildren]

That's exactly the thought process that turned Deus Ex into Invisible War. Exactly. You can go back to interviews and they say the very same thing about why they "refined" things like weapon upgrades.

Ultimately the game was a disaster. The only thing anyone learned from it was not to start simplifying mechanics that no one ever had a problem with in favor of some flawed idea of aesthetic elegance.

And if you think just because it's Bioware they must know what they're doing you might need reminding that the great Warren Spector was out there telling everyone how great the deliberate streamlining of Invisible War was going to be.

Good example, except Deus Ex suffered from more problems than the streamlining of the interface. Deus Ex was heavily based on being about to do what you want, and you know what? You could. You can go anywhere, kill anyone, and do either of these things at any time. It's a game that presented you with a free world. Your stats came into play with great importance because you needed them for intricate interaction with the world.

Steamlining a game like that is stupid because the only thing that can be lost is depth. You cant take a deep game, chop bits off, and expect it to be just as deep. It doesnt work like that.

But Mass Effect wasnt deep. It was an action-RPG where stats played little part on the overall player interaction with the game. Conversations? Not a single stat had any importance except for Charm and Intimidation, as well as Paragon/Renegade. As far as I'm aware they return, at least Paragona and Renegade.

Everything else was primarily combat focused. Everything. Sure some stats also counted towards hacking and decrypting, but even all those were combat focused. The 'depth' of the stat system was 99% focused towards combat.

And end of the day the minor upgrades didnt make a big deal. Learning new abilities, powers, and getting your equipment up to scratch did. The weapon system was just as bloated; there were only four guns in the game no matter how you spin it, and despite the wealth of different brand and rank weapons you'd always, always go for whichever was the highest in stats, leaving practically every other loot pickup totally useless.

I'm not positive BioWare will pull the changes off because I dont worship the ground they walk on. They're not one of my favourite developers. I'd even say I'm concerned that some of the changes will be missed (eg: Mako, I liked it). But overall the stat system can be changed as far as I'm concerned.

It's not a case of Deus Ex, because Deus Ex: Invisible Wars' changes ruined the depth of interaction with the world itself. It doesn't need to be that way with ME2, because the stats only ever interacted with combat.

http://www.gametrailers.com/video/exclusive-scientist-mass-effect/58986

Thanks. Hadn't seen that video. Certainly shows the writing is up to scratch, even if the male Shepard is acted like a dolt :lol.

 

[I <3 Memes]

I take back what I said about the guns looking like bullet hoses. Now after seeing better videos of the gunplay they do seem to fire nice and crisp. Wish there were more videos with gunplay in them to look at though. Most are showing off the biotic/tech capabilities of the different classes. Still wish there was more recoil to the weapons.


The videos I've been watching are obviously from the xbox360 version of the game and the players are using a controller. Unfortunately the game seems to have lock-on targeting for the weapons. Please tell me the PC version will have free aim.

 

[cleveridea]

the OXM review is real, just bought in barnes and noble was surprise to see it

the no xp thing I think is like their talk of immunity being game breaking (ie immunity can be triggered in perpetuity, ie recharge time quicker than its duration) so they want to keep a challenge throughout by limiting character growth within tight parameters (thereby making player level predictable the entire playthrough)

edit- the thing I will miss both is that I liked at higher difficulty levels u got more xp, thereby providing an actual gameplay reason to benefit from playing harder levels.

 

[Vamphuntr]

the no xp thing I think is like their talk of immunity being game breaking (ie immunity can be triggered in perpetuity, ie recharge time quicker than its duration) so they want to keep a challenge throughout by limiting character growth within tight parameters (thereby making player level predictable the entire playthrough)

Well that doesn't make much sense if quests still gives exp. If you do a lot of side quests then your level wouldn't be predictable no?

 

[Nab]

Man, how come Salarians never look this badass in the game:

 

[Lostconfused]

Man, how come Salarians never look this badass in the game:

Because Salarians don't really look like that.

 

[Nab]

Because Salarians don't really look like that.

It's not fan art, it's from the comic books. Written by Mass Effect 2's lead writer. There's a degree of canon, surely?

 

[cleveridea]

in the review they mention heavy weapons that sound cool, as well as grenade launcher they have missile launcher,

Spoiler

avalanche weapon to freeze enemies and what sounds most awesome to me is particle beam

it also confirms that you dont control the mako, you get dropped to a location on foot

 

[K.Jack]

The videos I've been watching are obviously from the xbox360 version of the game and the players are using a controller. Unfortunately the game seems to have lock-on targeting for the weapons. Please tell me the PC version will have free aim.

They wouldn't dare to use anything other that free aim in the PC release.

Man, how come Salarians never look this badass in the game:

BUT THEY STILL HELD THE LINE.

 

[Lostconfused]

It's not fan art, it's from the comic books. Written by Mass Effect 2's lead writer. There's a degree of canon, surely?

Artistic license. Those proportions don't look right for a Salarian.

 

[Vamphuntr]

it also confirms that you dont control the mako, you get dropped to a location on foot

<3 <3 <3 No more getting stuck trying to climb a mountain with the mako YAY

 

[Lostconfused]

Well that doesn't make much sense if quests still gives exp. If you do a lot of side quests then your level wouldn't be predictable no?

The game would just scale to your level. The way the characters level is extremely predictable, you get 2 skill points per level and you only have 6 skills that you can distribute the points to. Health is probably a static stat now depending entirely on the level of your character so what your health is would be entirely predictable during the entire game. Just because you can grind XP doesn't mean you would out level the content if the game mechanics don't allow you to.

 

[Nab]

Artistic license. Those proportions don't look right for a Salarian.

I prefer to think it's just some crazy Salarian 'roids at work

 

[Vamphuntr]

The game would just scale to your level. The way the characters level is extremely predictable, you get 2 skill points per level and you only have 6 skills that you can distribute the points to. Health is probably a static stat now depending entirely on the level of your character so what your health is would be entirely predictable during the entire game. Just because you can grind XP doesn't mean you would out level the content if the game mechanics don't allow you to.

I'm not only talking about level though. If you do a lot of side stuff I would think you could upgrade/customize your gear more since you would gather more ressources. It's not easily predictables with all of these things.

 

[Lostconfused]

I'm not only talking about level though. If you do a lot of side stuff I would think you could upgrade/customize your gear more since you would gather more ressources. It's not easily predictables with all of these things.

Why? It all depends on how the "fuel" mechanic works, you might only be able to do so much exploration at a time which would limit how much xp you can get or what kind of upgrades you can get. Its entirely predictable for them considering they made the game.

 

[cleveridea]

couple more things from the review - origin story carries through to new game (and "reputation")

and the advantages from an import character are "more experience, credits, mineral resources and paragon/renegade points" depending on character level

texture pop-in is gone

all ME1 team members 'have been busy' and you find out what they have been up to

no more loot, doing research and upgrades instead, no cool armors to find and upgrade parts provide "minimal bonuses'

completing companion story unlocks a cool ability for them

 

[Confidence Man]

No more loot? Do you even find anything anymore? If there's nothing to find there's probably no hacking into anything anymore. Wtf.

 

[MrTroubleMaker]

http://www.gametrailers.com/video/exclusive-scientist-mass-effect/58986

thanks, I haven't seen that either

 

[Twig]

no more loot, doing research and upgrades instead, no cool armors to find and upgrade parts provide "minimal bonuses'

The weapons I'm okay with because they weren't really that visible to me when I was actually playing. Plus I almost always prefer upgrading and customizing to simply finding new stuff. (And yet I still love loot-whore games, oddly enough.) But I like all the different armor graphics. ):

Good news about texture pop-in, though. Even on PC ME1 suffers from this way too much.

Also: Mordin is amazing I love him already. <3 Salarians

 

[Lostconfused]

No more loot? Do you even find anything anymore? If there's nothing to find there's probably no hacking into anything anymore. Wtf.

Sounds exactly what I expected. You find minerals which you can use to research upgrades on normandy for your weapons/armor. Basically you can change the way your gear looks but the stats are all going to be same probably.

But I like all the different armor graphics.

You can change the way your stuff looks. Its just that the stats wont change.

 

[Metalic Sand]

couple more things from the review - origin story carries through to new game (and "reputation")

and the advantages from an import character are "more experience, credits, mineral resources and paragon/renegade points" depending on character level

texture pop-in is gone

all ME1 team members 'have been busy' and you find out what they have been up to

no more loot, doing research and upgrades instead, no cool armors to find and upgrade parts provide "minimal bonuses'

completing companion story unlocks a cool ability for them

This sounds really bad. Like the game has been turned into some sort of gears of war.

 

[Deleted member 30609]

Really, Mass Effect is a game that succeeds in spite of itself. There are a number of glaring design and technical problems, some of them pretty drastic. Aside from the music and art, I don't think a single part of ME reaches "sacred cow" status and could maybe deal with a change.

well said.

I'm glad Bioware are taking some chances and, at the very least, acknowledging and trying to fix what was 'broken' in ME.

 

[Vamphuntr]

Sounds exactly what I expected. You find minerals which you can use to research upgrades on normandy for your weapons/armor. Basically you can change the way your gear looks but the stats are all going to be same probably.

You can change the way your stuff looks. Its just that the stats wont change.

If that's the case then yeah then the scaling will work fine because it is predictable.

 

[Confidence Man]

That's shitty.

I'm calling it right now, this is Bioware's Invisible War. Massive fan backlash. Count on it.

 

[SlickVic]

Amazon does have the CE back in stock, but it's $13 more than the regular version, and the regular version has the $10 rebate. Can't really justify the CE.

I'm reading on their forums that the Cerberus Card is coming with every copy of ME2 (at least for NA). Probably just going to be some access to Day 1 DLC to hinder used games sales.

If so, only reason I'd want the CE is the very slick box but that just ain't worth $13 more AND no $10 Amazon credit to me.

 

[EatChildren]

This sounds really bad. Like the game has been turned into some sort of gears of war.

It sounds absolutely nothing like Gears of War and I'm really sick of people using that comparison for every single game that happens to have guns and a cover system.

That's shitty.

I'm calling it right now, this is Bioware's Invisible War. Massive fan backlash. Count on it.

Of course there will be fan backlash. Blacklash from people who thought all that loot and all those pretty numbers made the game a deep RPG.

 

[Twig]

You can change the way your stuff looks. Its just that the stats wont change.

How's that work? S:

Do you just "find" skins?

 

[X26]

Still got it preordered and am still excited, but a lot of these new details and tidbits (THOSE FUCKING VINES!) are a bit dissapointing to hear about

 

[Lostconfused]

How's that work? S:

Do you just "find" skins?

No idea. There is a screen shot of the menu on Bioware's site though.

Still got it preordered and am still excited, but a lot of these new details and tidbits (THOSE FUCKING VINES!) are a bit dissapointing to hear about

Well all of this was obvious for a while now so I tried to match my expectations, maybe lower them a bit.

 

[cleveridea]

This sounds really bad. Like the game has been turned into some sort of gears of war.

ironically that section of the review is titled "Gears of War"

Here is the exact verbiage for that section...

Sadly though, your rewards for cracking skulls disappoint. Wholly new gear is surprisingly rare. This means no more painful inventory management, but it also gives your lust for loot an ice-cold shower. You can finish the game with just two or three weapons of each type. You can customize your setup with parts that grant minimal bonuses, and paint yourself in simple patterns, but the thrill of finding a gleaming new suit of kick-ass armor is entirely absent.

But don't despair: there are plenty of upgrades to research back in your hub/ship Normandy. Improve your firearms, armor, biotics and even the ship itself. Replacing corporate gunsmiths with a do-it-yourself ethic means just racking up a fortune in credits won't do though. Grab a pickaxe and and put on your prospector hat, because you'll need a whole mess of raw materials.

Sadly combing virgin planets for [mineral list] isn't just tedious its downright boring. Staring a quivering element concentration graph and launching probes isn't so much a chance for discovery as it is a joyless time-suck

They also mention hacking minigames and discovering weapon blueprints so looks like no loot from dead enemies, but still some lockers type things (NOT explicitly mentioned, but thats the impression I get). so find blueprints, then do planet mining to actually make them!

they mention the lack of enemy loot as being offset by "massive amounts of thoughtful storytelling" providing the game its "real weight"

 

[Draft]

:lol

So I think maybe the biggest problem in ME1 was inventory management. And it sounds like they solved that problem for ME2... by getting rid of inventory items.

 

[Slackbladder]

So you make parts on the Normandy? Kinda' like in KotoR 2 where you had a 'bench' and upgraded your light sabres?

I've just noticed Steam say ME2 will be available 26th Jan, even though it's not released in the UK until the 29th. Does this just mean a pre-load, though? I hope so because my Direct2Drive release date is the 29th as is the street date for retail sales.

 

[Vamphuntr]

couple more things from the review - origin story carries through to new game (and "reputation")

and the advantages from an import character are "more experience, credits, mineral resources and paragon/renegade points" depending on character level

texture pop-in is gone

all ME1 team members 'have been busy' and you find out what they have been up to

no more loot, doing research and upgrades instead, no cool armors to find and upgrade parts provide "minimal bonuses'

completing companion story unlocks a cool ability for them

I guess they really watered down the RPG elements (aside form the choices/story). Seems kinda weird. I don't think Bioware even made a shooter before so it will be interesting to see. The removal of loot is a good thing though. The pacing in battle/dungeon will be better. No more scrolling through a huge list of weapons/armors/mods every five minutes. I suppose it will also make the time spent aboard the normandy (upgrading) more valuable than in ME.

 

[elrechazado]

Of course there will be fan backlash. Blacklash from people who thought all that loot and all those pretty numbers made the game a deep RPG.

Didn't make it a deep rpg, just made it a game we love.

 

[golem]

I don't think Bioware even made a shooter before

MDK2

 

[elrechazado]

I can't decide which I want to become a Mass Effect 2 themed meme more,

Space-furniture, or

Spoiler

"Krogan deviants enjoy Salarian flexibility"

I vote for future blouse.

 

[Vamphuntr]

MDK2

Is it any good?

 

[golem]

theres just something satisfying about picking up a +0.5% damage weapon from some poor rent-a-merc that you just dispatched. Although inventory management on consoles always seems a headache

Is it any good?

pretty fun actually

 

[Killthee]

Is it any good?

Its bloody awesome.

 

[EatChildren]

Didn't make it a deep rpg, just made it a game we love.

Yeaaah, no. You loved the full product on what it delivered as a whole and what it created. If you actually sit back and identify what you liked and disliked about the first game you'd probably find many of the changes wouldn't actually effect you at all. People are throwing a fit because they're under the delusion that tons of stats and loot somehow make a game deeper or rich or some bullshit.

It's idiocy to praise Mass Effect despite it's flaws and then bitch about a sequel you haven't played because it makes changes to these flaws. Not accusing you of doing this, it just seems to be a case of people really not thinking things through. Especially the "ITS LIKE GEARS OF WAR" argument, when the game is clearly a light years away from that franchise.

On the subject of loot I honestly ask people to think about the 30+ hours people spent on Mass Effect and how much time was dedicated to picking up valuable loot and spending time at retailers. Unlike other loot based RPGs where you'd continuously find useful upgrades and equipment, Mass Effect was more or less "equip the weapon with the best stats, sell/omni-gel the remaining 30, and keep it for the next few hours".

 

[Confidence Man]

Yeaaah, no. You loved the full product on what it delivered as a whole and what it created. If you actually sit back and identify what you liked and disliked about the first game you'd probably find many of the changes wouldn't actually effect you at all. People are throwing a fit because they're under the delusion that tons of stats and loot somehow make a game deeper or rich or some bullshit.

It's idiocy to praise Mass Effect despite it's flaws and then bitch about a sequel you haven't played because it makes changes to these flaws. Not accusing you of doing this, it just seems to be a case of people really not thinking things through. Especially the "ITS LIKE GEARS OF WAR" argument, when the game is clearly a light years away from that franchise.

On the subject of loot I honestly ask people to think about the 30+ hours people spent on Mass Effect and how much time was dedicated to picking up valuable loot and spending time at retailers. Unlike other loot based RPGs where you'd continuously find useful upgrades and equipment, Mass Effect was more or less "equip the weapon with the best stats, sell/omni-gel the remaining 30, and keep it for the next few hours".

You don't think stats and loot add anything to the game? Why do you think people play Torchlight, for example?

If finding new equipment has been all but stripped from the game then yeah, that's a huge negative, regardless of how it was handled in ME.

Which, for what it's worth, was perfectly fine. I don't know what RPGs you're playing where you don't find new equipment that's better than the stuff you're carrying. The rate at which you acquired new stuff was obviously too high, and the inventory you were given to manage it all was substandard, but that could've been fixed.

 

[elrechazado]

Yeaaah, no. You loved the full product on what it delivered as a whole and what it created. If you actually sit back and identify what you liked and disliked about the first game you'd probably find many of the changes wouldn't actually effect you at all. People are throwing a fit because they're under the delusion that tons of stats and loot somehow make a game deeper or rich or some bullshit.

It's idiocy to praise Mass Effect despite it's flaws and then bitch about a sequel you haven't played because it makes changes to these flaws. Not accusing you of doing this, it just seems to be a case of people really not thinking things through. Especially the "ITS LIKE GEARS OF WAR" argument, when the game is clearly a light years away from that franchise.

On the subject of loot I honestly ask people to think about the 30+ hours people spent on Mass Effect and how much time was dedicated to picking up valuable loot and spending time at retailers. Unlike other loot based RPGs where you'd continuously find useful upgrades and equipment, Mass Effect was more or less "equip the weapon with the best stats, sell/omni-gel the remaining 30, and keep it for the next few hours".

Yeah, best to not tell me what I loved or didn't, thanks.

 

[EatChildren]

You don't think stats and loot add anything to the game? Why do you think people play Torchlight, for example?

Because it is a loot heavy RPG. Loot heavy. A game that has been designed heavily around the aquisition of loot, frequently. Much like Diablo.

If finding new equipment has been all but stripped from the game then yeah, that's a huge negative, regardless of how it was handled in ME.

What? That makes no sense. It's totally based on how it was handled in Mass Effect. The loot was near useless in the original. Bitching about the lack of loot in the sequel compared to the relatively useless loot in the original makes no sense.

Which, for what it's worth, was perfectly fine.

No, it wasnt. It was one weapon afloat in an ocean of useless shit. The game had four weapons. You picked the best one and kept it for a looong time. Loot was useless.

I don't know what RPGs you're playing where you don't find new equipment that's better than the stuff you're carrying.

Vampire: Bloodlines had sweet fuck all loot and is easily one of the best RPGs ever made.

The rate at which you acquired new stuff was obviously too high, and the inventory you were given to manage it all was substandard, but that could've been fixed.

For what gain?

Again I ask people to think about the loot system in Mass Effect, what they liked and disliked, how it was managed throughout the game, and how it relates to the changes in Mass Effect 2.

As I said, you'd always pick the best stats on a weapon because there was only four weapons in the game. No huge range of swords, axes, maces, and shields here. Four weapons. No magical enhancements, rare abilities, or anything like that. Four weapons. Best stats = the one you equip. Everything else, of which you will get plenty, is useless except for coin.

So how often did you switch and upgrade your weapon? As you increased in level I'm guessing not very much. In fact, nearing the end of the game now, I've switched my pistol and sniper probably four or five times, now using Spector gear and thus not needing anything anymore.

The only enhancements of weapons came from the modifications, which much like the loot drops came thick and fast but were mostly useless thanks to keeping the same high end stuff for most of the game.

Now lets look at the changes in Mass Effect 2. You've still got guns, and you still upgrade them. You still enhance and improve the weaponry and equipment you've got. Hell, you probably do so at the same rate you did in Mass Effect. Difference? You dont have to sell hundreds upon hundreds of useless shit in between each upgrade that you stumbled upon every few hours.

It sounds like you just want loot for the sake of loot. You want more loot in a game that never had anything useful to begin with. You're free to be disappointed they didnt expand on the loot concept, but what we're getting does not seem much like a dumbed down version, but instead the trimming of the fat that had no part of the original game in the first place.

RPGs dont need tons of loot and a billion stats to be deep. That is not what makes them RPGs. That's not what made Mass Effect so great, and its arguably what made it (of many things) flawed.

Yeah, best to not tell me what I loved or didn't, thanks.

Then how about you and others explain to me what was so great about the loot? What was so integral and important and oh so wonderful about the loot? Because none of you have done so. I've stated why it was crap and why the changes are fine, but I'm hearing from the other end is 'hur dur its Gears of War' and other silly complaints, and all it's coming across as is "I want loot for the sake of loot", which is crummy game design.

 

[Wiggum2007]

ME1 didn't have armor variety either, there were the L, M, and H variations but besides that it was all the same shit with different textures. ME2 will have just as much variety visually with the ability to customize the look of your armor. I like this personally because I'll be able to have the best armor stats-wise and fit it visually to my tastes, unlike ME1 where I wore one of the shittiest armors throughout the whole game just because I thought it looked better than anything else.

 

[Son of Godzilla]

The requisitions officer in ME1 was awesome and really did a good job on expanding on the idea of commerce actually existing in game.

While I agree that looting corpses to create a wardrobe of 300 identical suits that magically healed the bullet holes you just blew into them is dumb, I hope the game still provides a believable amount of equipment management.