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Merkel warns US, Britain no longer reliable partners
- Thread starter Xando
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JonnyDBrit
Member
If you're trying to use trends to support your theories at least use them properly. Going by the trends the right wing parties in Europe are past the peak moment. All the right wing parties got in elections results below their polling average in the previous year before the elections. Yeah, I know you'll answer something about polls and Trump and Brexit. But you shouldn't because the same polls estimated well enough the actual elections result.
Refugees, Brexit and Trump couldn't push them to victory. Only UK and US surrendered to this round of stupidity. That doesn't mean that some new wave is not possible in the future. But it's up to Merkel and Macron and the rest of EU to act properly in the next years so it doesn't.
Stumpokapow
listen to the mad man
If winning the election means getting the most votes, PVV did not win the election.
If winning the election means getting the most seats, PVV did not win the election.
If winning the election means being part of the subsequent government, PVV will not have won the election.
If winning the election means doing well compared to polls, PVV is perhaps the biggest loser of the election.
If winning the election means gaining seats, then GL and D66 won the election and CDA also beat PVV.
Overall about 1/3rd of the seats in the Dutch house are held by Euroskeptic parties and the remaining by pro-EU parties.
The real stories of the 2017 election is that Wilders failed to translate polling momentum into results and the collapse of Labour. VVD's losses primarily benefitted CDA and Labour's losses primarily benefited GL and D66. I'm really sorry you support Geert Wilders, but you supporting him doesn't mean he's not a giant loser.
😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂
So the people on the street are the one who decide that?Is Germany a reliable ally?
GAF teaches me something new every day.
He is complicit by saying Trump effectively committed to Art. 5 during his speech (which he didn't).
TatteredHat
Member
By that logic, GroenLinks won the election. But they didn't, and neither did the PVV. Wilders didn't win shit.
PdotMichael
Banned
Stuck in the past, maybe a reason why everything in the USA is so counter-progessive.
hydrophilic attack
Member
damn
The dumbasses on the street decided on Brexit. Some people have been tainted by the brexit lens.
Alternatively, just because the US government acts like dumbasses on the street, it doesn't mean other nations do.
Good news for you: The people on the street wont vote on if germany will defend other NATO members.
Saint Gregory
Member
Corbyn has some decent ideas, his europe policy is the same disaster as May though.
Let's see what the Senate Foreign Relations Committee chairman thinks about Trumps trip:
https://twitter.com/SenBobCorker/status/868833347254067201
It's almost hilarious how effusive republicans have to be in these interviews now in order to stay in Trump's good graces. Most of those quotes sounds as if Trump wrote them himself.
Pancake Mix
Copied someone else's pancake recipe
Is Germany a reliable ally?
This says it all, lol.
Germany is not at all reliable where Russia is concerned either. They're too reliant on Russian gas.
Muffin1611
Banned
This post says it all about how much effort you took in reading this thread first.
Are you aware of the fact, that the Bundeswehr is stationed as the first line of defence if Russia would attack europe?
hydrophilic attack
Member
did you just go goodwin's law? Germany is not reliable because they were once nazis?
Germany dealt a lot better with their Nazi past than, say, Brits with their colonialist path, with colonialist sentiments still breaking the surface every now and then
Well, that edit changed things significantly, but I caught your true feelings before you edited
Pancake Mix
Copied someone else's pancake recipe
It's spelt baffling, and it shows attitudes in Germany pretty well.
Politicians mirror those attitudes. Germany is too reliant on Russia to be a reliable partner either.
Pilgrimzero
Member
Calling it now, Trump causes WWIII
Orniletter
Banned
Exactly. The highpoint of pent up anger, russian propaganda, late effects of the financial crisis and terrorist attacks couldn't get the anti-EU parties into power.
The EU economy is actively recovering, the refugee crisis is over and the UK slitting it's own throat at the altar of nationalism and exceptionalism will show just how dumb of an idea leaving the EU really is.
Things aren't all sunshine and rainbows, obviously not, but...dare I say... the worst (Le Pen winning) is behind us.
Is Germany a reliable ally?
Can you show me where Pew voters determine the response of Germany's government to an Article 5 attack on a NATO member?
Muffin1611
Banned
Talking shit and then correcting spelling, incredible.
German politicians are aware of the fact that they're obligated to respond to Article 5, since they're simply obligated to. No matter how much Germans dislike war after their history of failed wars.
Comparing that to Trump and saying "Germany isn't reliable on this either!" is just hilarious.
Outstanding edit
I wonder why germany has a different view on millitary action as most countrys 🤔 I cant remember anything...
Also, regarding your Russia argument: Bullshit. Why is the Bundeswehr then stationed as the first line lf defense against russia if Putin would want to invade?
Educate yourself, thank you.
Pancake Mix
Copied someone else's pancake recipe
Where does Germany get their natural gas in the immediate term in that scenario? There's a reason why Germany has been loathe to criticise Russia...
And where does that leave politicians the next election, given public attitudes?
Napalm_Frank
Member
It's easy to say that without Britain the doors are open for integration but the eurozone was and still is a mess and Brits had very little to do with it. Euro will be the biggest challenge that faces european integration and fixing the issues certainly won't be easy.
Is baffling how one could fail to understand that Merkel's speech addresses exactly this internal mentality of Germany about war. That's why this speech exists. That's why Germany approach slowly changed in the past years. The public will follow if the issue is well explained and makes sense for them.
Muffin1611
Banned
Ah yes, I can totally see a NATO nation being attacked by Russia and German politicians just going "Yeah, not sure about that one, I mean, we need that gas y'know!", effectively making NATO useless in the process.
How about you spend 5 seconds on critical thinking before you post
You Are Viewtiful
Member
Merkel is right but Putin is laughing his ass off.
-Plasma Reus-
Service guarantees member status
So much hot fire 🔥 🔥 🔥
1. eastern europe might have something to say about that, unless they don't count anymore for geostrategical calculations
2. I'm sure the russian army is quaking in its boots at the undermanned and underequpied german "army" in the event of an invasion. Realistically, in a UK&US-less scenario Russia is fearing French nukes and long supply lines being disrupted by a hostile populace due to potential occupation of eastern europe not German soldiers.
Regardless, this entire conversation is rather absurd anyways because Russia isn't going to invade Europe. They have neither the resources nor the manpower to launch a successful invasion without destroying themselves in the process. This isn't the cold war and russia is not the soviet union. All Putin wants is disruption between the western alliance so he has a better geostrategical hand to play, and with the US out of the picture he has a much better hand to play against the fractious EU.
They are pretty cool with the Bundeswehr beeing around. I can link the 1 hour radio report to you, but I dont see a real reason since you most likely dont have the german skills to understand it.
The guys who are sitting there are pretty much aware of the fact that they are going to be wiped out. And still, they are there.
Everyone in administration is saying that Trump said USA stand by Article 5 by just showing up.
Exactly.
If you follow her speeches Merkel has been slowly but surely preparing the german public for this since the Trump election in november.
The tone in german media has changed quite a lot in the last 6-7 months. From EU policies to military rearmament there has been a clear shift from 'no never" to 'we have to bite the bullet for our own good'. Even nuclear armament was discussed in conservative media (something i've never seen in german media before).
That's what i'm saying. From a european point of view there is no difference between Trump, Pence, McMaster or Mattis.
PdotMichael
Banned
The myths of the Russian army are still alive on GAF I see.
http://www.ard.de/home/radio/Pulverfass_Baltikum/3788114/index.html
Thats the report I am talking about.
Fun Fact: Its a NATO Mission
Thats the report I am talking about.
Fun Fact: Its a NATO Mission
I'm not sure what you're getting at? While yes the strengths of the Russian army are vastly overplayed on both sides for political reasons, it's not exactly a controversial statement to suggest that the poorly maintained and manned german defense situation would be overwhelmed without US support by a Russian attack.
However, this is an all but meaningless scenario to contemplate because the German army (as of today and the foreseeable future despite the panic here) in a 1 on 1 fight with Russia would never occur because NATO comes into play. US troops are stationed all across europe. Even without the US and UK, France isn't going to sit by and let it happen either and France has nukes. Again: Putin knows this, and is never going to attack. All putin wants is pressure on all sides involved so he has a better hand to play.
ape2man
Member
If winning the election means gaining a significant amount of votes compared to the previous government that lost a lot of votes.
I'm really sorry you support Geert Wilders, but you supporting him doesn't mean he's not a giant loser.
Where did i ever say that i support wilders? LOL. The only reason VVD did not lose as big as the pvda was because the VVD took a anti-euro stance in the elections or has everyone forgotten that.
If winning the election means doing well compared to polls, PVV is perhaps the biggest loser of the election.
The polls have not painted a accurate indication of the voters, at least the last 3 elections.
If winning the election means being part of the subsequent government, PVV will not have won the election.
Well every if this keeps on going they will have to talk to the PVV, or reelections.
Overall about 1/3rd of the seats in the Dutch house are held by Euroskeptic parties and the remaining by pro-EU parties. And thats not big? And i think your forgetting the VVD Thats not a clear message by the dutch that we should step back and think instead step forward.
Indeed. That is generally the principle one should stick with. Elect responsible people that know more than you do. Unfortunately we see how it doesn't work in places like the US.
Everyone involved is very aware of the fact that we dont get shit done alone against russia.
The NATO leader are aware. The Bundeswehr and the Bundesregierung are aware that these people are send to die, as our soldiers located at Lithuania are. But thats not the point, the russians know that they are not going to touch Lithuania, because otherwise there is really World War III.
My original statement was, that the Bundeswehr and the Bundesregierung are willing enough to help their allies in Lithuania to send people who would get wiped out for the alliance. And it doesnt matter if Fritz on the street is against providing help - Angela Merkel and Ursula Von der Leyen are the people who would matter in this case.
10/10
Chmpocalypse
Blizzard
Chmpocalypse
Blizzard
Correcting someone else's spelling by misspelling "spelled"
Fucking LOL
Sweeney Tom
Banned
@keithboykin
So, to recap, the French think Trump's a dictator, the Germans think he's unreliable & the British think he can't be trusted with intel.
Not mentioned: Canada thinking he's a useless idiot
So, to recap, the French think Trump's a dictator, the Germans think he's unreliable & the British think he can't be trusted with intel.
Not mentioned: Canada thinking he's a useless idiot
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