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[Thelonelykoopa]

Then how about the opposition gets it's shit together and makes that a reality instead of allies invading each other

We can't atm hopefully we can in the next two years but it's going to be a fucking long time till we fix the systematic issues that allow a peraon like Trump to get elected as they have been present in our government since the start.

 

[Kthulhu]

Hopefully the US is just a brief hiccup and some kind of sanity returns.

Well, we elected Obama after W. Bush, so anything's possible.

 

[Tommy DJ]

I believe the republicans are playing to whims of their current party leader. I do not believe it's a long term shift in strategy for the party. How can it be when this is how Americans think....

The strong bonds that Americans feel with Europe are not going to go away just because Trump says so. I bet these numbers of Americans who view Europe as an ally is even higher than Europeans viewing the same of America even.

And yet...

There are dozens of polls that suggest that Republicans have softened and even reversed their opinion on Russia simply because of the foreign policy shift. And its not going to be temporary as the tea party has a complete grip of the party as of now.

The fundamental problem are not Americans as a whole. The fundamental problem are Republicans and Republican voters. The Tea Party and Republicans who own vineyards and stocks in Russia are not going to go away. Unless the Democratic Party can consistently win day in and day out (unlikely due to Electoral Collage and Republicans being pretty much against freedom, liberty and justice for all), Europe is going to have to keep on dealing with this yoyoing in foreign policy.

 

[Xando]

Nah, not Russian tanks. Tanks from concerned citizens without any nationality. They do speak Russian, though...

Ah yes those unidentifiable green men

 

[Violet_0]

?

he might not have won their votes, but he certainly won their ... uh ... hearts?

 

[LizardKing]

Are you guys trying to imply that Obama didn't take military action against Russia when they "invaded" Ukraine because he viewed Russia as an ally?

 

[Belfast]

Sadly a lot of Americans will be happy about this.

Probably, but as an American, I hope this doesn't make it harder for me to go or move to Germany in the future.

SO is a native Berliner and I'm all America'd out at this point.

 

[Tommy DJ]

Are you guys trying to imply that Obama didn't take military action against Russia when they "invaded" Ukraine because he viewed Russia as an ally?

That's like a reverse "buuuut Obama".

 

[Muffin1611]

Are you guys trying to imply that Obama didn't take military action against Russia when they "invaded" Ukraine because he viewed Russia as an ally?

What? We're trying to imply that Trump doesn't even acknowledge Ukraine as a problem and there are some suspicious reports of his team talking to Russians, in part suspected to discuss lifting of sanctions.

Further implying that Trump wouldn't give a shit if the same happened to another Eastern European/Baltic state

 

[Xando]

Are you guys trying to imply that Obama didn't take military action against Russia when they "invaded" Ukraine because he viewed Russia as an ally?

Was Obama under investigation for his russia ties? Did Obama refuse to criticize Russia? Did Obama ever questioned Art. 5 of NATO? Did Obama threaten a trade war with europe? Did Obama reveal classified information to Russia?

 

[Aureon]

It's impossible to have bigger EU integration than before without Britain.

Bigger, yeah.
Deeper is a better word.

 

[LizardKing]

What? We're trying to imply that Trump doesn't even acknowledge Ukraine as a problem and there are some suspicious reports of his team talking to Russians, in part suspected to discuss lifting of sanctions.

Further implying that Trump wouldn't give a shit if the same happened to another Eastern European/Baltic state

Saying "watch what happens when Russia invades Estonia and the US doesn't do anything," and then saying "why wait, they didn't do anything about Ukraine." Is not supportive of a policy shift between presidents. Not saying there isn't one. Just saying that it's more complicated than that. It's really off the point anyway, which is that Americans overwhelmingly view Europe as allies and Russia as an enemy or at least not an ally. It's not a long term winning strategy for the republicans or one I expect them to continue to support because Americans have not fundamentally changed. We still are like minded with Europe.

 

[Xando]

Saying "watch what happens when Russia invades Estonia and the US doesn't do anything," and then saying "why wait, they didn't do anything about Ukraine." Is not supportive of a policy shift between presidents.

Ukraine is neither in NATO nor in the EU

 

[KingSnake]

Saying "watch what happens when Russia invades Estonia and the US doesn't do anything," and then saying "why wait, they didn't do anything about Ukraine." Is not supportive of a policy shift between presidents. Not saying there isn't one. Just saying that it's more complicated than that. It's really off the point anyway, which is that Americans overwhelmingly view Europe as allies and Russia as an enemy or at least not an ally.

Estonia is a NATO member. Supposedly protected by the famous article 5 that Trump doesn't want to acknowledge anymore.

 

[PdotMichael]

Russia will not invade the baltic states. People need to calm down.

 

[LizardKing]

Ukraine is neither in NATO nor in the EU

I took it as a more general comment about the US allowing Russian imperialism. Maybe that's not what they meant. But then I wasn't the one who brought up Ukraine.

 

[ape2man]

Time for bigger EU integration now that the naysayers are out

EU army and Eurozone federal budget would be good first steps

Please be a joke post



Am I reading this wrong and you're making a joke? Because Wilders didn't win the election.

He, did. VVD lost 8 PVV gained 5. PVDA was decimated both parties are pro euro.

?

That message was delivered by lying to the public at several occasions and by funding and interference from Russia. The only way to react is to become a stronger Union.

That is never going to happen until countries will keep there promises and brussels enforces them. Until now non of the budget promises france has made they kept. and brussels refuses the enforce them on france. That sends one clear message to the smaller nations. If your big the rules dont apply to you, so why would they when a even more integrated union would happen.

 

[Meowster]

The end of an era... sad times but I don't blame her. We are totally unreliable and reckless. Donald Trump is an active threat to global peace.

 

[Skyzard]

Good.

 

[KingSnake]

He, did. .

That's some alt reality that you're promoting.

 

[Sibylus]

If ever. Damage could be permanent.

Not permanent, but damage of centuries or millennia would be nonetheless devastating. Let's try to avoid having to terraform our own planet if we can help it.

There are mixed reactions to this

Some scientists argue it would be drastic
While other scientists argue it won't be so bad

Even without the Paris Accords, we are relying less on coal and more on natural gas and alternative energy is on the uptick


http://www.cbsnews.com/news/what-ha...raws-from-the-paris-climate-change-agreement/

I'm no climatologist, but I've seen and used the greenhouse emissions models that chart the most likely of outcomes given different levels of international greenhouse reductions. We're past the point of "won't be so bad"―we're talking degrees of damage that will be with us for over a century (at best) and how long/severe recovery from that will be. A major contributor like the US pulling out amounts to significant nerfing of the agreement, and the possibility of copycats effectively killing it.The article tries to remain neutral on questions of outcome, but in reality it's not that promising. The Paris Accord isn't even as drastic as would be preferable. It's a helpful start.

 

[Xando]

I took it as a more general comment about the US allowing Russian imperialism. Maybe that's not what they meant. But then I wasn't the one who brought up Ukraine.

It is a false example though.
Ukraine is a third country without any military alliance to the EU or the US.

Estonia is part of a military alliance in which Trump refused to commit to a shared defense clause(which was only used once, by the US).

 

[Muffin1611]

He, did. VVD lost 8 PVV gained 5. PVDA was decimated both parties are pro euro.

That is not what "winning an election" means.

 

[PdotMichael]

Love the "Europe will turn right-wing like us!" posts like it would reflect the fact that the USA just elected a reality tv star.

 

[Christhor]

Love the "Europe will turn right-wing like us!" posts like it would reflect the fact that the USA just elected a reality tv star.

At the pace the elections are going? Wouldn't be too surprised. Has there been any election in Europe the past year where the right wing hasn't at least gained some ground?

 

[gutter_trash]

At the pace the elections are going? Wouldn't be too surprised. Has there been any election in Europe the past year where the right wing hasn't at least gained some ground?

Greet lost, Le Pen lost, Hofer lost.

May is winning because Corbyn sucks really bad but aside from that, most of Europe have been electing mainstream governments

 

[oti]

Love the "Europe will turn right-wing like us!" posts like it would reflect the fact that the USA just elected a reality tv star.

Ah yes, the whole "we Brits and Americans are stupid so you're stupid too" narrative. That worked out great, didn't it.

 

[Ogodei]

There are mixed reactions to this

Some scientists argue it would be drastic
While other scientists argue it won't be so bad

Even without the Paris Accords, we are relying less on coal and more on natural gas and alternative energy is on the uptick


http://www.cbsnews.com/news/what-ha...raws-from-the-paris-climate-change-agreement/

That's definitely the big question. Trump can throw out all the regulations he wants, but the industry trend is downplaying coal more and more, though Natural Gas is only less-bad rather than good, but that's still an improvement.

Thing is, American businesses can't just flip the pollution switch, you have to assume not only what the regulatory environment is but what it will be, if a plant lasts 30 years then you want to map out the probably political environment until almost 2050, and there's simply no way that climate denialism and pro-coal policies are still winners in 2050.

Of course, they may not be planning as aggressively as the Paris Accords might want them to, but the estimate that we're all still doomed if the US doesn't get on board ignores that cautious industrialists might assume something close to Paris Accord compliance in their models.

 

[Micael]

Was Obama under investigation for his russia ties? Did Obama refuse to criticize Russia? Did Obama ever questioned Art. 5 of NATO? Did Obama threaten a trade war with europe? Did Obama reveal classified information to Russia?

And the Philippines.

 

[krishian]

Ah yes, the whole "we Brits and Americans are stupid so you're stupid too" narrative. That worked out great, didn't it.

 

[ape2man]

That is not what "winning an election" means.

Well winning a election in most countries is gaining a majority. Holland is not like most countries. Plus it did send a clear message, if your super pro euro you could lose voters. Thats one of the reasons VVD changed there messaging

 

[Christhor]

Greet lost, Le Pen lost, Hofer lost.

May is winning because Corbyn sucks really bad but aside from that, most of Europe have been electing mainstream governments

They lost, but they still gained votes. If they gain as many votes next time, they'd win the elections, no? It's weird how the right wing gaining votes and support from the people seems to be considered no big deal.

 

[PdotMichael]

soon(tm)

 

[Fallout-NL]

Terrorists and Russians managed to divide us. We remain the fools.

When you put it like that... Yeah, they totally fucking did.

 

[Muffin1611]

They lost, but they still gained votes. If they gain as many votes next time, they'd win the elections, no? It's weird how the right wing gaining votes and support from the people seems to be considered no big deal.

Well winning a election in most countries is gaining a majority. Holland is not like most countries. Plus it did send a clear message, if your super pro euro you could lose voters. Thats one of the reasons VVD changed there messaging

It's almost like we had a refugee crisis before these elections that polarized these voters and not even then the right-wing parties won

 

[GrizzleBoy]

Well both nations have spent the last couple years undermining the European union and diplomatically weakening it, much to Putin's delight.

Imagine if you had two friends that spent two years calling your/thier after school club a failure after leaving, while also trying to get others to leave and or/disband the group.

Of course you're not going to be relying on those twats. They can probably just fuck right off.

But you know what would be hilarious?

If one of those friends came crawling back asking if they can still use the club room and get club discounts because those things are apparently very important and super beneficial. They apparently want nothing to do with the club, but would like to make a "deal" to continue using club property/perks. As if they think people who stop paying the membership fees should get better treatment than those who are subscribed and aren't trying to ruin the fucking club.

It's be pretty hilarious imo.

 

[Thelonelykoopa]

I appolgise for my Outburst I try not to get angry.I know asking for an EU invasion is silly I'm just depressed and angry at the same time at our entire government right now and how much it's fucking over my family and that was just me ranting trying to get it out my system ; Didnt really help I'm still pissed off but clear enough in the head to apologise for my Behavior.

 

[GAMEPROFF]

The ideological and economic gulf between Germany and France has been widening for a long time now. Germany sees France as irresponsible and not mature enough to lead.

Bullshit.

 

[qcf x2]

Just reading the quotes in the OP; it seems kind of like a statement against isolationism but at the same time suggesting isolationism as the alternative -- that is to say, isolation from alliance with the isolationists. Am I misreading?

 

[Christhor]

It's almost like we had a refugee crisis before these elections that polarized these voters and not even then the right-wing parties won

Business as usual then eh, mate?

 

[jelly]

Terrorists and Russians managed to divide us. We remain the fools.

It's sad that people don't realise countries are doing their wish lists. They haven't outright won but they certainly changed the world towards bad things and the UK, US fell for it hook line and sinker.

 

[PdotMichael]

Business as usual then eh, mate?

The Pro European candidate just crushed Le Pen and you are trying to paint it as a win of the right-wing.

Okay.

 

[GAMEPROFF]

. Am I misreading?

Yes.

 

[Muffin1611]

Business as usual then eh, mate?

I dunno, you tell me with all these parties not winning elections and the refugee crisis slowly fading out of the consciousness of the public.

 

[Dubbedinenglish]

Nah, not Russian tanks. Tanks from concerned citizens without any nationality. They do speak Russian, though...

Got them on a special at he surplus store

 

[Alanae]

They lost, but they still gained votes. If they gain as many votes next time, they'd win the elections, no? It's weird how the right wing gaining votes and support from the people seems to be considered no big deal.

The thing is that even with all the stars aligning at the perfect time the majority of people still rejected them. Unless the EU really manages to mess up in a major way in the next 5 years this kind of chance wont be coming up again. If anything the full effects of brexit being on display by then will further dissuade people from wanting to chase them down that path.

 

[Christhor]

The Pro European candidate just crushed Le Pen and you are trying to paint it as a win of the right-wing.

Okay.

I never said it was a win, but it's not a good idea to pretend like everything's peachy in the EU countries.

I dunno, you tell me with all these parties not winning elections and the refugee crisis slowly fading out of the consciousness of the public.

It's impossible to say what could happen in the next four years. I'm not going to pretend like things can't go to shit as long as they're gaining votes.

 

[hydrophilic attack]

Basically, the rise of the anti-EU parties was a stupidity wave. That wave reached its crest with Brexit and will now recede as everyone else sees the consequences of anti-EU stupidity on the UK economy

 

[Muffin1611]

It's impossible to say what could happen in the next four years. I'm not going to pretend like things can't go to shit as long as they're gaining votes.

As the other poster said, we had about the perfect conditions for these parties to seize power, and they majorly didn't.

And now we all get to see the effects of that kind of foolishness in Brexit and it's consequences, while me and many other Germans are still waiting on those bad effects the local refugees supposedly bring.

 

[ArkhamFantasy]

I wonder what McMaster thinks when he reads what Merkel said here.