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[Oersted]

Is Germany a reliable ally?

I will fall for the bait.

The common people do not make these decisions.

The goverment does.

The US goverment is not a reliable partner.

Do you understand that?

No more free candy therefore no longer reliable partners.

Yes, Lugbrug has been a while. Did your mind finally arrive in 1950?

 

[Orniletter]

#TeamMacron

 

[GoldenEye 007]

If she's not trying to hold it together and instead is entertaining thoughts of division then yes she is part of the problem. I don't care who "started it."

The US at the very least refuses to be reasoned with. The reality is that we cannot be trusted or relied upon. So what's the point of beating a dead horse?

At some point, the EU will have to realize that and do what they can for their best interest. Trump and co are incapable of dealing with the complexities of the world. Britian made a very definitive decision to leave the EU behind.

The reactions and actions from the EU are naturally very limited given the reality of the situation in the US and UK.

 

[gutter_trash]

Did the EU and NATO really need so many members from former Soviet countries?

EU was cooler without former Yogoslavia and those other Eastern European countries

 

[sasliquid]

I am British

I can confirm we are scum

We will see how scummy we are next week. Will be very or extremely?

 

[ittoryu]

If she's not trying to hold it together and instead is entertaining thoughts of division then yes she is part of the problem. I don't care who "started it."

The UK is leaving the EU, but Merkel needs to keep it together. Right.

 

[shem935]

I like how it's merkels fault trump is a nutter who has made it clear he doesn't care about the EU. Now that she is dealing with that fact and wants to strengthen ties with people who actually want to be allies and work to better the world together she is at fault somehow?

 

[Tommy DJ]

If she's not trying to hold it together and instead is entertaining thoughts of division then yes she is part of the problem. I don't care who "started it."

When the entire Republican Party is literally trying to divide apart the world and basically toeing the line with Russia, even guys like McCain who can't do anything but maybe say that they're "concerned", maybe thinking about division and contingency plans is perhaps smart.

There's no indication that the USA can fix what they're doing right now. It isn't a Trump issue, its an issue with the people.

 

[GoldenEye 007]

I like how it's merkels fault trump is a nutter who has made it clear he doesn't care about the EU. Now that she is dealing with that fact and wants to strengthen ties with people who actually want to be allies and work to better the world together she is at fault somehow?

It's really baffling. Blame Merkel when it is the US and UK being isolationists and upending the system!

 

[Palette Swap]

If she's not trying to hold it together and instead is entertaining thoughts of division then yes she is part of the problem. I don't care who "started it." She needs to be a voice of reason here and unite while others are foolishly trying to divide.

It's a matter of reciprocity. Britain's trade interests are becoming increasingly orthogonal to ours, while the current US administration is a foreign policy liability, and has stated repeatedly they wanted the EU gone.
So yeah, you can't bend over backwards for countries who are actively fighting against your best interests. Pardon my French, but fuck them.

 

[LizardKing]

The US at the very least refuses to be reasoned with. The reality is that we cannot be trusted or relied upon. So what's the point of beating a dead horse?

At some point, the EU will have to realize that and do what they can for their best interest. Trump and co are incapable of dealing with the complexities of the world. Britian made a very definitive decision to leave the EU behind.

The reactions and actions from the EU are naturally very limited given the reality of the situation in the US and UK.

When the entire Republican Party is literally trying to divide apart the world and basically toeing the line with Russia, even guys like McCain who can't do anything but maybe say that they're "concerned", maybe thinking about division and contingency plans is perhaps smart.

There's no indication that the USA can fix what they're doing right now. It isn't a Trump issue, its an issue with the people.

I edited to say this...

If she's not trying to hold it together and instead is entertaining thoughts of division then yes she is part of the problem. I don't care who "started it." She needs to be a voice of reason here and unite while others are foolishly trying to divide.

Of course while in the meantime hedging her bets and working behind the scenes to make sure the EU will be able to be strong either way. But this is not the type of rhetoric that should be coming from her mouth, and should not be the first course of action even if the US/Britain "started it."

 

[The Lamp]

They are so attractive for their ages.

God I love the new generation of liberal hottie kings of western society, including the gay Luxembourg PM and his cute spouse. 😍

Oh wait, right, back to Merkel. It's a shame that the US and U.K. have basically bewildered her with our incompetence. Germany probably feels like they can't trust anyone they used to anymore. Don't worry Merkel, you just need to ride out the train until our leadership swaps over.

 

[shem935]

I edited to say this...

If she's not trying to hold it together and instead is entertaining thoughts of division then yes she is part of the problem. I don't care who "started it." She needs to be a voice of reason here and unite while others are foolishly trying to divide.

Of course while in the meantime hedging her bets and working behind the scenes to make sure the EU will be able to be strong either way. But this is not the type of rhetoric that should be coming from her mouth, and should not be the first course of action even if the US/Britain "started it."

Maybe the US shouldn't leave the Paris agreement and the UK shouldn't leave the EU then. But oh no their feelings might get hurt.

 

[Micael]

If she's not trying to hold it together and instead is entertaining thoughts of division then yes she is part of the problem. I don't care who "started it." She needs to be a voice of reason here and unite while others are foolishly trying to divide.

That was honestly not what I got from what she said, she is merely stating what is now pretty much a fact that the UK and the US are just simply not reliable, and as such more emphasis should be given to securing things internally than seeking help outside, the UK not only did Brexit for a completely stupid political play which would be terrible even if remain had won, but is now talking about hard Brexits and not owning previously agreed to engagements (talking of the brexit bill), the USA the only country to have evoked article 5 did not explicitly supported it in a time of unease with Russia, and is threatening to leave the Paris agreement, something which they only very recently entered, not to mention relying on Trump or the GOP for anything is shaky at best.

In short I do not think she is actively seeking to distance herself from the UK and the USA in fact the article mentions "While Germany and Europe would strive to remain on good terms with America and Britain, "we have to fight for our own destiny", Merkel went on." just more internal cohesion.

 

[Oersted]

I edited to say this...

If she's not trying to hold it together and instead is entertaining thoughts of division then yes she is part of the problem. I don't care who "started it." She needs to be a voice of reason here and unite while others are foolishly trying to divide.

Of course while in the meantime hedging her bets and working behind the scenes to make sure the EU will be able to be strong either way. But this is not the type of rhetoric that should be coming from her mouth, and should not be the first course of action even if the US/Britain "started it."

She is trying to unite Europe

 

[Nerazar]

Did the EU and NATO really need so many members from former Soviet countries?

EU was cooler without former Yogoslavia and those other Eastern European countries

Well, I suppose Russia would be bigger by now if not for the EU/NATO membership of those countries.

 

[WedgeX]

Sadly a lot of Americans will be happy about this.

How many decades now have conservatives fostered a hatred of Europe? Its damn ridiculous.

 

[TheRealTalker]

and so on this day it was written in textbooks that the EU, became the SUPER power known today called the EU GALACTIC EMPIRE.

 

[LizardKing]

Maybe the US shouldn't leave the Paris agreement and the UK shouldn't leave the EU then. But oh no their feelings might get hurt.

You can't expect 100% agreement with allies. You have to look at the bigger picture. Times are rough right now I get it. But saying this isn't helping.

That was honestly not what I got from what she said, she is merely stating what is now pretty much a fact that the UK and the US are just simply not reliable, and as such more emphasis should be given to securing things internally than seeking help outside, the UK not only did Brexit for a completely stupid political play which would be terrible even if remain had won, but is now talking about hard Brexits and not owning previously agreed to engagements (talking of the brexit bill), the USA the only country to have evoked article 5 did not explicitly supported it in a time of unease with Russia, and is threatening to leave the Paris agreement, something which they only very recently entered, not to mention relying on Trump or the GOP for anything is shaky at best.

In short I do not think she is actively seeking to distance herself from the UK and the USA in fact the article mentions "While Germany and Europe would strive to remain on good terms with America and Britain, "we have to fight for our own destiny", Merkel went on." just more internal cohesion.

I guess maybe in reality she is not trying to distance herself as much as it sounds. But it's still dangerous talk and shows chinks in the armor of western alliance that some parts of the world just got giddy about when she said this.

She is trying to unite Europe

While dividing the western alliance? That's not a good way to go about it is my point. EU's alliance is important but so it is with all NATO countries.

 

[commedieu]

Good luck eu.

I think it will work. No one wants war. The main issue for it isn't world policing it's being at constant battle with resource rich nations, or dragged into the US's issues.

Germany just thrived on solar/wind? What was it... for. A day? If the eu focuses on renewable energy/climate change and education Their western problems will literally die out.

The American economy isn't going to hold up to trump.

 

[Simplet]

Oops, just read an article on Spiegel.de this morning about the upcoming EU-China-Summit, that the EU could break with the US and instead could cooperate with China in the near future. Doesn't sound too unrealistic now.

Saying that Europeans are going to give up the US for China is a real stretch, but you can bet your ass they're going to make a big show of joint environmental initiatives at the very least, especially if Trump pulls out of the Paris agreement.

 

[Schattenjäger]

Trump's leaking of sensitive information which was not shared with allies, for example. Israel and the UK are downsizing their information sharing. Give the Leaker-in-Chief more months and more countries will follow.

They aren't downsizing
Making alterations is not downsizing

UK and Israel will always be strong allies regardless of who is a president

Other countries have remained allies with us even after the Iraq debacle

It's not the election of the US president that drives who allies with us.. it's mutual benefits and historical bonds.. re-electing Trump would have little effect being that we are still the only remaining superpower and most of our ideals align with Europe

 

[Kusagari]

I'm honestly not sure if this confrontational tone both Merkel and Macron seem to be taking will work out.

 

[Dreams-Visions]

Trump doing Putin's work.

this shit is tragic.

 

[Chmpocalypse]

It's impossible to have bigger EU integration than before without Britain.

Were you a leaver? This sounds like the idiotic "Brittania is the most important country ever" garbage they try to sell.

 

[Muffin1611]

I edited to say this...

If she's not trying to hold it together and instead is entertaining thoughts of division then yes she is part of the problem. I don't care who "started it." She needs to be a voice of reason here and unite while others are foolishly trying to divide.

Of course while in the meantime hedging her bets and working behind the scenes to make sure the EU will be able to be strong either way. But this is not the type of rhetoric that should be coming from her mouth, and should not be the first course of action even if the US/Britain "started it."

Instead of foolishly trying to hold it together with countries that can't be reasoned with anymore, integrating together with the other countries sounds like a logical strategy imo

 

[Xando]

If she's not trying to hold it together and instead is entertaining thoughts of division then yes she is part of the problem. I don't care who "started it." She needs to be a voice of reason here and unite while others are foolishly trying to divide.

Of course while in the meantime hedging her bets and working behind the scenes to make sure the EU will be able to be strong either way. But this is not the type of rhetoric that should be coming from her mouth, and should not be the first course of action even if the US/Britain "started it."

She tried since the election and Trump is still looking more favourable towards Russia than towards the EU.

At some point we have to start looking out for ourselves if we don't want what happened to Ukraine to happen to Poland or the baltics.

At best the Trump administration is unreliable, at worst they're actively working with our national security threat number one.

 

[Dr.Acula]

I think the world has to operate on the assumption that any information given to the US may be shared with Russia, unfortunately.

At some point we have to start looking out for ourselves if we don't want what happened to Ukraine to happen to Poland or the baltics.

Or the rest of Ukraine.

 

[gutter_trash]

Trump is a temporary simptom.
relations with the US will resum to normal as soon as Trump is impeached or resigns

 

[TheLaughingStock]

So this is Europe's UExit? Merkel is being dumb here and it's dangerous talk. To think that Europe can't be as close with staunch and like minded allies in the US and Britain is giving the rest of the world who continuously has worked against US, Britain and the EU's interests exactly what they want. And then some go a step further and think they should snuggle up to China? Yeah because the EU and China are more compatible and have much more the same interests in play now that US/Britain voted for Trump/Brexit? Ridiculous.

How is Merkel being dumb? She can do whatever she wants. China isn't malevolent anymore than any other sovereign nation and if Germany thinks as the ring leader of the EU it's in their best interest to become a close partner and end the era of western alliance then so be it. The EU can't insulate themselves from the demands, interests, and will of countries like the US, China, or Russia regardless of who they run to.

 

[shem935]

You can't expect 100% agreement with allies. You have to look at the bigger picture. Times are rough right now I get it. But saying this isn't helping.

"Expecting 100% agreement"=/ Staying invested in a common economic union or sharing a basic worldview backed up by science instead of corporate lunacy. These aren't minor squabbles, they are foundation level questions about the future of relations between countries.

 

[Schattenjäger]

Trump is a temporary simptom.
relations with the US will resum to normal as soon as Trump is impeached or resigns

Correct

Or if he finishes one or two terms as well

 

[soldat7]

All according to plan.

 

[Xando]

Trump is a temporary simptom.
relations with the US will resum to normal as soon as Trump is impeached or resigns

I read this alot yet the real problem is the GOP.

What guarantees will we (as in europeans) have there won't be a Trump 2.0 in 4 years?

 

[Muffin1611]

Trump is a temporary simptom.
relations with the US will resum to normal as soon as Trump is impeached or resigns

I doubt that.

Sure, relations will actually be productive when he's out.

But he's doing active damage that will leave the US behind on several topics, while giving the EU a reason to get more independent and better integrated.

 

[zero_suit]

Trump is a temporary simptom.
relations with the US will resum to normal as soon as Trump is impeached or resigns

Not necessarily. Almost all of the GOP is trash.

 

[Chmpocalypse]

Yeah that free candy of being dragged into a bullshit war that destabilized an entire region, the free candy of having more terrorist attacks which comes in no small part due to the destabilization of the region (not that terrorist attacks themselves are new), the free candy of getting a financial crisis in no small part caused by a severe lack of financial regulations in the US because the power of the free market fuck yeah (the EU had roughly 4 trillion more GDP than the USA before the crisis), the free candy of having to take a bunch of refugees due to previously mentioned things, the free candy of giving between zero and none shits about global warming, good thing trump came along or we might just all get diabetic from all this free candy the US was handing us out.

I mean don't take this the wrong way, not saying the partnership with the USA isn't beneficial, it was in the past and is going to continue to be in the future, because really the relationship we have with the USA is really not going to happen with someone like China, but the idea the USA was handing out free candy is hilarious.

Dude

I think I have to call the cops, that was just a brutal murder

(Nice job schooling the shitposter!)

 

[shem935]

"Trump is a temporary system, this doesn't prove the US is unreliable", forgets we had George Bush 16 years ago.

Like Europe has to have the biggest whiplash. Bush fucks everything up, Obama tries to come in and fix it, Trump continues fucking everything up. How is this not unreliable? The US seems to about face every 8 years.

 

[oti]

People blaming Merkel for this mess. 😂

 

[commedieu]

Trump is a temporary simptom.
relations with the US will resum to normal as soon as Trump is impeached or resigns

Wrong.

There are millions that agree with trump that have shown their cards. A Republican bodyslammed a reporter, didn't step down, but went on to win an election and was given 100k+ is donations for doing so.

The damage from his actions will be devastating. As well as Republicans will control branches of America's government, and have a bias in the Supreme Court. America is done for and will need time to face it's own internal issues before even being able to take on a seat at the world's table.

This mindset was highlighted by trump. But it's supported by every elected Republican seat, as well as a population.

Thinking this is just a 4 to 8 year issue is tone deaf.

 

[FantasticMrFoxdie]

are...are we the baddies now?

 

[zero_suit]

People blaming Merkel for this mess. 😂

It's laughable.

 

[LizardKing]

How is Merkel being dumb? She can do whatever she wants. China isn't malevolent anymore than any other sovereign nation and if Germany thinks as the ring leader of the EU it's in their best interest to become a close partner and end the era of western alliance then so be it. The EU can't insulate themselves from the demands, interests, and will of countries like the US, China, or Russia regardless of who they run to.

And I would have the right to call her wrong if she thinks that, as it's my opinion that that is not in the best interests of any western powers. I know she CAN do it. What's your point there? Also China is actively hostile towards western ideals of freedom, liberty and equality and to this day is still a major violator of human rights. I don't know where this warm and fuzzy China is no worse feeling comes from but it's just wrong.

People blaming Merkel for this mess. ��

It's laughable.

Who did that? I don't see anyone blaming her for this mess.

 

[kharma45]

edit - wrong thread

 

[Sgt. Kabukiman]

I'd watch that romantic comedy.

 

[Chmpocalypse]

They aren't downsizing
Making alterations is not downsizing

UK and Israel will always be strong allies regardless of who is a president

Other countries have remained allies with us even after the Iraq debacle

It's not the election of the US president that drives who allies with us.. it's mutual benefits and historical bonds.. re-electing Trump would have little effect being that we are still the only remaining superpower and most of our ideals align with Europe

You're arguing that re-electing trump as president* would have no effect in a thread where his first election* is literally having significant effects.

Your argument makes no sense.

 

[Oersted]

And I would have the right to call her wrong if she thinks that, as it's my opinion that that is not in the best interests of any western powers. I know she CAN do it. What's your point there? Also China is actively hostile towards western ideals of freedom, liberty and equality and to this day is still a major violator of human rights. I don't know where this warm and fuzzy China is no worse feeling comes from but it's just wrong.





Who did that? I don't see anyone blaming her for this mess.

Whatever happened to "You can't expect 100% agreement with allies."?

 

[Sibylus]

Folks criticizing Merkel and Macron fail to realize a few things:

• Trump can't be appeased. He burns everyone in time.
• Trump is the symptom of a centuries-coming existential crisis for the American political system. America may not even be democratic by the time 4-8 years have passed, and talking about this shaking off like a case of the common cold is naive.
• Trump is an existential crisis for the international balance of power. 4-8 years of dividing NATO is more than enough time to weaken our collective security and give opportunities for outside actors to take advantage. Will Georgia still be free in a decade? The Baltics?Realistic question to be asking right about now. Before it's too late.

 

[Shoeless]

Trump is a temporary simptom.
relations with the US will resum to normal as soon as Trump is impeached or resigns

I don't know if it's really possible to return to "old normal" after the Trump administration and Brexit. There's going to be a new normal, and it may very well involve old "empires" like the US losing supremacy and spiraling into less global and financial importance while new economies like China move in to fill the void.

America almost seems a bit like England did in the early 20th century, when the UK was still clinging to "the sun never sets on the British Empire," and really believed it was still a major, colonial influence on global affairs even as the US itself was taking up that role. If the US continues to be anti-globalist and withdraws into itself, becoming a coal-consuming nation obsessed with opening factories--because this, apparently, is the best way to be employed in the world--and shutting down schools, while putting a leash on the media and mixing state with religion, then it's going to watch other economies leap frog ahead while the people themselves say stuff like "We used to be the peace keepers of the world until those ingrates turned their backs on us," never understanding that it was the US itself that turned its back on the rest of the world.

 

[Schattenjäger]

You're arguing that re-electing trump as president* would have no effect in a thread where his first election* is literally having significant effects.

Your argument makes no sense.

I'm arguing effects in the long term