Support NeoGAF

[jeff_rigby]

Hmm, I hadn't seen that notch. I'd suggest it could be because of the PS logo but I don't know how these images are created.

Here's a rough guess.

Edit: I forgot to curve the underside, meh.

Excellent but I'd move the blu-ray drive forward toward the front. Power supply should be in back with drive platter moved forward with lid hinge moved forward. This also reduces the height the lid must be lifted to place a disk. Also lid is smaller and needs less structural strength. Spring loaded lid with push once to release catch would be easier if pressing on the front of the lid.

 

[Varth]

Hats off to Jeff Rigby. I think i have no idea what is actually going on in this thread, but it sure is fascinating to read.

Yup. Still think we're taken round for a supercazzola prematurata, though

 

[jeff_rigby]

Yup. Still think we're taken round for a supercazzola prematurata, though

Wow, way to get around the Mods; I take it you arn't being literal. You must be using the term in reference to the movie; I.E. Nonsense talk. As to the software updates coming, no that's fact...PS3 refresh including HDMI pass-thru and support for a depth camera, that's opinion with some support.

The definition of supercazzola: “A word made up of two elements in the Italian language: the prefix ‘super’ and the noun ‘cazzo’ {prick}. The fundamental linguistic structure on which it is based is that of the ‘fruit-salad’ word, in which there is a combination of different terms or parts of different terms with the creation of a semantic confusion.”

The last PS3 chassis was the 3000 and a new version of the PS3 firmware 3.0 was released at the same time. This new PS3 chassis will be the 4000 series released at the same time as the PS3 Firmware 4.X series. Is this related in some way with features?

 

[Elios83]

Hmm, I hadn't seen that notch. I'd suggest it could be because of the PS logo but I don't know how these images are created.

Here's a rough guess.

Edit: I forgot to curve the underside, meh.

Imo you are pretty close with this. Overall size will be between the original PS2 and the PStwo.

 

[pharmboy044]

A top loader PS3? It looks a bit tacky doesn't it? I guess it doesn't matter as long as it sells for $199 or lower.

 

[Kung Fu Grip]

Yeah top loaders are old school.

 

[anonymous_abc]

A top loader PS3? It looks a bit tacky doesn't it? I guess it doesn't matter as long as it sells for $199 or lower.

surly it would have to be lower, you can get a slim for 200

 

[Shiggy]

(Jeff_Rigby alert)
?

 

[Fonz72]

Yeah top loaders are old school.

And they don't eat your games when the YLOD!

 

[Deadbeat]

Okay I know it was mentioned somewhere in this thread as to the state of the ps3 OS in ram usage while playing games but I was wondering if I could get more details.

In regards to when the ps3 is running a game: How much ram did the OS use when the ps3 came out? How much is it currently using? How much will it use in the supposed December update that jeff is talking about(this might be a question only for jeff RIGBY)?

 

[KennyLinder]

It used to use LOADS. It's a long time ago now, but I am sure it was something crazy like 96mb (or might have been 128mb). In the game we were working on at the time, an earlyish PS3 game, we wanted to have the PS3 on-screen keyboard for name entry, but couldn't because it required 25mb!

Crazy days.

 

[pcostabel]

Yup. Still think we're taken round for a supercazzola prematurata, though

Con scappellamento a destra?

 

[Bojanglez]

I did wonder if a new model with a top loading disc tray would be released as in the last firmware update I notice that "Eject Disc" became "Remove Disc" which otherwise it would not make sense to change.

 

[sloppyjoe_gamer]

I did wonder if a new model with a top loading disc tray would be released as in the last firmware update I notice that "Eject Disc" became "Remove Disc" which otherwise it would not make sense to change.

I noticed that too, and questioned why they would do that. After reading your post above though.....

I think all of you talking about a top loading new system design are dead on.

 

[KennyLinder]

There was also a change of text regarding "Hard Disc Drive" too, it now says "Storage". Something like that...

 

[makingmusic476]

ALl this WebMAF stuff... would such updates be coming to old ps3s as well? Or is this strictly ps3.5 talk.

I just upgraded from a launch unit to a slim like two months ago, and I'm gonna be pretty disappointed if they announce a new ps3 with a bunch of exclusive features just a couple of months down the road. =/

 

[Auto_aim1]

I did wonder if a new model with a top loading disc tray would be released as in the last firmware update I notice that "Eject Disc" became "Remove Disc" which otherwise it would not make sense to change.

Ah yes, this somewhat makes sense now.

 

[Audioboxer]

Would a laptop hard drive fit into one of these projected models?

 

[Shikoro]

There was also a change of text regarding "Hard Disc Drive" too, it now says "Storage". Something like that...

System storage...

 

[zomgbbqftw]

ALl this WebMAF stuff... would such updates be coming to old ps3s as well? Or is this strictly ps3.5 talk.

I just upgraded from a launch unit to a slim like two months ago, and I'm gonna be pretty disappointed if they announce a new ps3 with a bunch of exclusive features just a couple of months down the road. =/

Dude, it's Jeff Rigby, it's not coming. A lot of what he is talking about is probably being prepped for PS4 and Vita.

 

[east of eastside]

Hmm, I hadn't seen that notch. I'd suggest it could be because of the PS logo but I don't know how these images are created.

Here's a rough guess.

Edit: I forgot to curve the underside, meh.

I would suggest something much less obviously convex and more like Turbo Duo in its lid.

 

[jeff_rigby]

ALl this WebMAF stuff... would such updates be coming to old ps3s as well? Or is this strictly ps3.5 talk.

I just upgraded from a launch unit to a slim like two months ago, and I'm gonna be pretty disappointed if they announce a new ps3 with a bunch of exclusive features just a couple of months down the road. =/

Best guess is all or nearly all is coming to all PS3 models. IF there is a difference it will amount to a depth camera that is more accurate than the PS eye, HDMI pass-thru which only makes it more convenient to call up browser functions while watching TV and some functions slightly faster to load. Everything else should be the same between models.

Dude, it's Jeff Rigby, it's not coming. A lot of what he is talking about is probably being prepped for PS4 and Vita.

There is no cite or information about Vita getting WebMAF HTML5 apps but there is about the PS3. Where in the heck are you getting ideas like that. I think the WebMAF standard for HTML5 apps is to be used on all Sony Platforms because that's what it's for, it makes no sense to have such a standard on just one platform.

Again:

Richard, We already use AES for HLS which is OK for most iOS devices but far too unsecure for most rights owners that require Playready. So we choose SmoothStreaming for that.
BUT, the results in term of feeling for the end user is very poor in Smoothstreaming compared to HLS. We tried everything: various GOP, various encoder, various streamers (even with
IIS Media Services). We put varnish cache in front of streamer, same thing. HLS is better than Smoothstreaming, there's no discution about it.

Moreover, the new devices that are coming in 2012 (Samsung TV, PS3 WebMAF, LG TV, etc...) will all have HLS and Playready capabilities. So why don't we use the better of the two
world : HLS + Playready !

So for us, it will be great to be able to unlock the DRM mecanism to use it with HLS...

What's your feeling about that ?

Developer - JavaScript, MVC, CSSPosted08/06/2012 (09:27)Agency/EmployerEurobase PeopleDescription
Developer - JavaScript, MVC, CSS

I am seeking a Developer with strong Javascript application development skills, with some experience in developing Playstation/PS3 media applications, to join a fast growing and game console development team.

Essential Skills

-Javascript application development, preferably with an MVC framework (Backbone, knockout, Angular etc.)
-Javascript unit testing, preferably using -Cucumber/Gherkin or TestSwarm
-CSS 3
-Good written and verbal communication skills in English

Desirable Skills

-Playstation Network/PS3 development with Webkit browser & WebMAF framework
-Movie playback on PS3 with DRM encoding
-Javascript framerworks, eg JQuery, Angular, browsercap
-Playstation Network
-Experience of consuming RESTful services and JSON
-Experience working with bug management and source control system

Javascript Developer
Sony Computer Entertainment Europe
Public Company; 1001-5000 employees; Computer Games industry
October 2011 – Present (10 months) London, United Kingdom

Working to deliver application frameworks in standalone JavaScript environments as well as for HTML5 based Web Apps.

During my time at the BBC I designed and built a modular JavaScript-based device-abstraction and GUI framework for use across all the BBC's current and future HTML-based Smart TV applications. I've built similar frameworks for Sony Computer Entertainment Europe, and now for zeebox.

Specialties
Languages: JavaScript, Java, C#, Objective-C, C++, PHP, Perl.
CE Device Platforms: HbbTV, CE-HTML, PlayStation 3 WebMAF, Samsung SmartTV, LG NetCast, Panasonic Smart VIERA, iOS, Android.

Mozilla Application Framework WebMAF framework

The Mozilla application framework is a collection of cross-platform software components that make up the Mozilla applications. It was originally known as XPFE, an abbreviation of cross-platform front end. It was also known as XPToolkit. To avoid confusion, it is now best referred to as the Mozilla application framework.

While similar to generic cross-platform application frameworks like GTK+, Qt and wxWidgets, the intent is to provide a subset of cross-platform functionality suitable for building network applications like web browsers, leveraging the cross-platform functionality already built into the Gecko layout engine.

Gecko was used in the OLPC Sugar interface and Google used it to create Picasa. Samsung TV uses QTwebkit and Sony uses a modified GTKwebkit.

Edit: WebGL and smooth animation now available for GTKwebkit2 API. Full browser support (Stable release) by Sept

 

[phosphor112]

I did wonder if a new model with a top loading disc tray would be released as in the last firmware update I notice that "Eject Disc" became "Remove Disc" which otherwise it would not make sense to change.

Probably get's the disc to stop spinning (they spin a lot faster than DVD's IIRC).

 

[KageMaru]

The more I think about a top loader ps3, the more I want one. I miss the classic design.

Okay I know it was mentioned somewhere in this thread as to the state of the ps3 OS in ram usage while playing games but I was wondering if I could get more details.

In regards to when the ps3 is running a game: How much ram did the OS use when the ps3 came out? How much is it currently using? How much will it use in the supposed December update that jeff is talking about(this might be a question only for jeff RIGBY)?

Recent reports say it's down to ~50MB now. That doesn't include additional cost for extra features.

 

[Canis lupus]

Lol at thread title

 

[Persona7]

I did wonder if a new model with a top loading disc tray would be released as in the last firmware update I notice that "Eject Disc" became "Remove Disc" which otherwise it would not make sense to change.

It would be cool to press a button on the controller and the lid pops open.

 

[Varth]

Wow, way to get around the Mods; I take it you arn't being literal. You must be using the term in reference to the movie; I.E. Nonsense talk. As to the software updates coming, no that's fact...PS3 refresh including HDMI pass-thru and support for a depth camera, that's opinion with some support.



The last PS3 chassis was the 3000 and a new version of the PS3 firmware 3.0 was released at the same time. This new PS3 chassis will be the 4000 series released at the same time as the PS3 Firmware 4.X series. Is this related in some way with features?

Wasn't meant as an insult. It was just to say that I'm having a such a hard time following the discussion that you might as well throw in a couple supercazzole and many (me, that's for sure) wouldn't notice )

And ok, I was introducing gaf to the majesty of supercazzola. Can't believe there's no .gif for that. It would be perfectly suited for NPD days, press conferences and the occasional Moulineux interview

 

[Seik]

Really?

A top loading system could really be the gamechanger for me to finally buy a new PS3.

My old fat is getting...well old, a top loader would withdraw any risks of discs getting eaten and...man it would just feel oldschool.

Plus this one is just so damn slim!!! O_O. Do want.

 

[-Mikey-]

This speculation is really easing the pain I felt last week when my old PS3 died. Looking forward to a new model.

 

[SkyMasterson]

Hmm not sure how I feel about a potential top-loader.

I guess I'm just hoping for a solid build quality(which I know goes against what they're trying to do), but I've heard people say the BD drive is annoying in the slims.

I still have a launch 60 gig and would consider selling it off if this new model seems sturdy.

 

[Noisepurge]

Would a laptop hard drive fit into one of these projected models?

they might ditch them from these in favor of internal storage too to save in size/cost?

basic 2.5" SATA disks don't take a lot of space though so i don't know what is cheaper to produce

 

[jeff_rigby]

Wasn't meant as an insult. It was just to say that I'm having a such a hard time following the discussion that you might as well throw in a couple supercazzole and many (me, that's for sure) wouldn't notice )

And ok, I was introducing gaf to the majesty of supercazzola. Can't believe there's no .gif for that. It would be perfectly suited for NPD days, press conferences and the occasional Moulineux interview

It is hard to follow discussions of a technical nature with abbreviations thrown in. I try to explain and provide cites but the more knowledgeable like KageMaru then complain about the wall of text, don't read it and miss what I was saying hidden inside the wall of text. If I provide 1 paragraph then it's dismissed and still misunderstood because you still would need to have read background information I've cited.

A perfect example is the Sony 1PPU4SPU building block patent (Methods and Apparatus for supporting multiple configurations in a Multi-processor system). It was first reported in Dec 2010 as a way to increase the performance of a PS3 by attaching it to a memory buss. I looked at the pictures and read only a few paragraphs because it was hard to follow and I had no frame of reference. I misunderstood the patent just as the reporter did. A little over a year later and everyone is talking AMD fusion combining CPU and GPU in the same package and it's going to be in the PS4 instead of Cell and I read up on it. Made sense and seemed to be similar to Cell in that it was a Heterogeneous System Architecture, a mix of different CPUs each design with special abilities. How they combined the different CPUs and maintained a Coherent cache and kept each CPU from causing Memory buss conflicts sounded familiar so I reread the Sony 1PPU4SPU patent and it made more sense and on the major points was exactly like the AMD HSA Fusion "Plugin" design. "lightbulb lights" and the title of the Patent now makes sense; Methods and Apparatus for supporting multiple configurations in a Multi-processor system (AMD HSA is a multi-processor system). You can't put a PS3 Cell processor in a AMD HSA APU!

Cell was dead but SPUs live on in these modules and could possibly be used in AMD SOCs. Will they be used? Wording in the patent in particular this sentence is telling: "the PPU is a new ground up implementation of core with extended pipelines to achieve a low FO4 (Fan out of 4, spec standard based on the propagation delay of a cascade of 4 logic gates) to match the SPUs." It's past tense, a new PPU already existing design from the ground up with the same propagation delay stats as SPUs, means it's either in production or planned for a new product and prototypes already made.

Refresh for a PS3 is going to be difficult because Cell can't be dumb scaled to 32nm and a PS3 refresh hold was announced by Sony. The first use that came to mind is to use two of the modules in a PS3 refresh using AMD SOC support chips.

The point of all this is that reading and understanding the AMD HSA Fusion method of connecting multiple CPUs to memory inside a APU and then re-reading the Sony patent is the only way you could understand or agree with my conclusion. That takes reading walls of text by me or others. Without the background framework knowledge it would sound like nonsense talk.

 

[Jay Sosa]

PSone cheap?

That thing is probably sony's best designed home console

<3

it looks like a kids toy.

 

[coldfoot]

I'm curious about two things:
1. Power Supply: 90W Notebook power supplies (that work for all brands including Sony) are like 7$ on EBAY...Surely they could get it way cheaper, under $4-5 a pop. I'm curious if they will go this way on the new slim to make it a smaller case, packaging, etc. It surely must be cheaper than having it inside, due to economies of scale since those power supplies are mass produced by the tens of millions.

2. Of course the main event, 28nm combined Cell + RSX. I wonder if we'll get that with this revision. Despite the engineering challenges and cost for such a shrink + integration, it's still cheaper to do it this way than to find a way to emulate the Cell, once the manufacturing capacity for such processes ramps up of course. With such an integrated chip, I predict the Cell layout to remain the same while the RSX would undergo new placement + routing in its IC design since it probably was mostly automated P&R design in the first place.

 

[Canis lupus]

Hmm not sure how I feel about a potential top-loader.

I guess I'm just hoping for a solid build quality(which I know goes against what they're trying to do), but I've heard people say the BD drive is annoying in the slims.

I still have a launch 60 gig and would consider selling it off if this new model seems sturdy.

How are they annoying?

 

[Mr. Enigma]

If it's got hardware BackCompat for PS1 and PS2, I'll trade my current slim in and get this. No PS2 support is driving me mad. My launch PS2 from 2000 is struggling badly these days.

 

[anonymous_abc]

If it's got hardware BackCompat for PS1 and PS2, I'll trade my current slim in and get this. No PS2 support is driving me mad. My launch PS2 from 2000 is struggling badly these days.

seems unlikely if they want to make it cheap cheap cheap.

on the other hand releasing a PSI II III would be kinda neat ^^

 

[mrklaw]

I'm curious about two things:
1. Power Supply: 90W Notebook power supplies (that work for all brands including Sony) are like 7$ on EBAY...Surely they could get it way cheaper, under $4-5 a pop. I'm curious if they will go this way on the new slim to make it a smaller case, packaging, etc. It surely must be cheaper than having it inside, due to economies of scale since those power supplies are mass produced by the tens of millions.

2. Of course the main event, 28nm combined Cell + RSX. I wonder if we'll get that with this revision. Despite the engineering challenges and cost for such a shrink + integration, it's still cheaper to do it this way than to find a way to emulate the Cell, once the manufacturing capacity for such processes ramps up of course. With such an integrated chip, I predict the Cell layout to remain the same while the RSX would undergo new placement + routing in its IC design since it probably was mostly automated P&R design in the first place.

1. It'd cost Sony less to buy from a supplier than from eBay. And generally an internal PSU can be cheaper as you don't need enclosures and as much insulation as an external one. The thing an external PSU gives you is space to shrink the console

2. I thought there were issues with further die shrinks on CELL? I'm sure Sony would want to get to a combined die ASAP but it may simply not be doable yet.

But if this is a big size reduction, there are limited places that can come from. PSU and cooling fan is one, HDD is another. I think SSDs are still too expensive to be a practical replacement, and Sony want to push PSN/PS+ so won't want to put out a cheap 'arcade' unit IMO. Unless they have the HDD as a literal bolt-on

Reducing the cooling relies on there being less heat inside which requires a die shrink, so let's wait and see.

 

[hirokazu]

I did wonder if a new model with a top loading disc tray would be released as in the last firmware update I notice that "Eject Disc" became "Remove Disc" which otherwise it would not make sense to change.

All the variants of the PStwo require you to physically press a button to open the lid, and Remove Disc would make no sense in that context. I suppose it works if the new model can have the lid pop open through software.

If the wording change from Hard Disk Drive to Internal Storage is also because of the new model, then this is pretty interesting. I can't imagine them going to flash storage and then only having maybe 64GB storage. Surely, there'd allow a way for the user to expand that?

 

[OniShiro]

All the variants of the PStwo require you to physically press a button to open the lid, and Remove Disc would make no sense in that context. I suppose it works if the new model can have the lid pop open through software.

If the wording change from Hard Disk Drive to Internal Storage is also because of the new model, then this is pretty interesting. I can't imagine them going to flash storage and then only having maybe 64GB storage. Surely, there'd allow a way for the user to expand that?

Internal Storage can mean there's also a External Storage, possibly any USB hard drive or pendrive can be used like with the Wii U. If that's the case I think the internal storage will be really small, probably only 8GB, enough for savegames and system updates.

 

[coldfoot]

1. It'd cost Sony less to buy from a supplier than from eBay. And generally an internal PSU can be cheaper as you don't need enclosures and as much insulation as an external one. The thing an external PSU gives you is space to shrink the console

LOL, of course I didn't mean to say that Sony should buy its power supplies from ebay, but with all the ebay Paypal fees, shipping costs, and seller profit, the power supplies are 7 bucks on eBay, so they must be dirt cheap when bought from the supplier in bulk.

Having an external PSU means smaller case for the console, and since those external power supplies get quite warm, they would also be a way to reduce the heat inside the case, which means smaller cheaper cooling required without a die shrink. I also think 100 Million/year external power supplies cost less than 13M/year internal power supplies due to economies of scale. It could very well be cheaper to ship a slim PS3 with an external power supply brick, which is quite small by the way, do not compare them to the monstrosities that the early 360's shipped with.

Also, if they are able to shrink the chips and get the power use down to 65W, then those notebook adapters are even cheaper, $6 on ebay. Maybe they move production to AMD's 32nm process, to test the waters for next year's PS4? If integrating RSX + Cell at 32 nm is too troublesome, maybe at least they'll be on the same package and stacked like the Vita CPU/GPU or not stacked like the 360 CGPU + edram.

 

[kvn]

All the variants of the PStwo require you to physically press a button to open the lid, and Remove Disc would make no sense in that context. I suppose it works if the new model can have the lid pop open through software.

If the wording change from Hard Disk Drive to Internal Storage is also because of the new model, then this is pretty interesting. I can't imagine them going to flash storage and then only having maybe 64GB storage. Surely, there'd allow a way for the user to expand that?

It's called "System Storage" not "Internal Storage".

 

[Graphics Horse]

All the variants of the PStwo require you to physically press a button to open the lid, and Remove Disc would make no sense in that context. I suppose it works if the new model can have the lid pop open through software.

Don't see why not. I can't even find where the 'eject/remove disc' option is. Edit: ah it's on the current BR game menu.

 

[MYE]

My attempt at a PS3 slim redesign

edit: forgot the EJECT and POWER buttons lolol
It doesnt need them, my version is powered by YOUR MIND

 

[plainr_]

How are they annoying?

I think the first batch of PS3 slims makes a little crack/pop sound at random. I used to have that on my first slim. My second however, is almost dead silent.

 

[anonymous_abc]

My attempt at a PS2 slim redesign

edit: forgot the EJECT and POWER buttons lolol
It doesnt need them, my version is powered by YOUR MIND

needs a comparison shot, looks almost as "large" as the regular slim.

 

[coldfoot]

edit: forgot the EJECT and POWER buttons lolol
It doesnt need them, my version is powered by YOUR MIND

The PS symbol on top of the Blu-ray is for both. Press for eject, hold down for 3 seconds for shutdown which first tries to gracefully shut down the system and if that fails, initiates a forced shutdown that you'd normally do by holding down the power button for a few seconds as you'd know from playing Bethesda games on the PS3.

 

[Drencrom]

My attempt at a PS2 slim redesign

edit: forgot the EJECT and POWER buttons lolol
It doesnt need them, my version is powered by YOUR MIND

Wow that looks authentic, great job. Wouldn't surprise me if your design end much alike the real redesign.

 

[MYE]

needs a comparison shot, looks almost as "large" as the regular slim.

Overall it would have the same width, but with a smaller bottom. The slim part would really come in by shaving part of the back and make it less square.

The PS symbol on top of the Blu-ray is for both. Press for eject, hold down for 3 seconds for shutdown which first tries to gracefully shut down the system and if that fails, initiates a forced shutdown that you'd normally do by holding down the power button for a few seconds as you'd know from playing Bethesda games on the PS3.

ohh, i like that idea.

 

[amar212]

My attempt at a PS2 slim redesign

edit: forgot the EJECT and POWER buttons lolol
It doesnt need them, my version is powered by YOUR MIND

It is PS3

Also turn the PS logo on the *vertical* render, it is always up on the official shots