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[Deleted member 17706]

Yet another 'tech writer' sucking on Apple's proverbial you know what. There is absolutely nothing amazing about Apple's phone, but that doesn't stop the 'press' from making the statement so matter of factly, with literally nothing to back it up. I guess popularity should always be equated with quality.

How do you expect people to take you seriously when you say bullshit like this?

May as well just come out and say, "hey guys, I'm totally biased, please disregard what I have to say!"

 

[CiSTM]

Yes it is. Their TVs are not as highly rated as Samsung or Panasonic. That's why they sell less.

Panasonic isn't making profit in the tv business either. As whole Panasonic just made record loss of $10 billion. I actually think all Japanese electric giants are making negative numbers in the tv field.

 

[MrCompletely]

They need one of those barnburner ideas that make millions, like the pet rock.

I heard that guy made a million dollars!

 

[Fallout-NL]

You know, Apple was in the same boat during the 90's too. They too were facing bankruptcy, due too too much R&D spending, releasing too many products at once and confusing consumers. What happened? They brought Steve Jobs back. He fired a whole bunch of people, canceled a whole bunch of projects, went back to the Macintosh philosophy of keeping it simple. Released the iMac G3 and iBook. Drove the company into a direction of making easy to use computer devices for everyday use. Now they are the biggest company on the planet.

Say what you want about Jobs, but it takes serious leadership balls to make such drastic changes without upsetting the shareholders. I think Kaz needs to learn a few things here. Gradual changes won't do anything in their position now. I think.

Yeah, that's probably the biggest issue.

 

[jmdajr]

Panasonic isn't making profit in the tv business either. As whole Panasonic just made record loss of $10 billion. I actually think all Japanese electric giants are making negative numbers in the tv field.

I remember the best Plasma w those Kuro Elite Pioneer ones. As far as I know they don't even make em anymore. Pioneer dropped out the race.

 

[CiSTM]

I remember the best Plasma w those Kuro Elite Pioneer ones. As far as I know they don't even make em anymore. Pioneer dropped out the race.

Panasonic bought the tech from Pioneer tho.

 

[1-D_FTW]

Panasonic bought the tech from Pioneer tho.

They bought the tech and got the engineers with the deal, but the main reason they've been slow to incorporate those things is simple: Pioneer left the business for a reason. Even with those Kuro's selling at extreme prices, it just wasn't profitable. And the prices in the tv market have plummeted since Pioneer left.

Honestly, I'd bet money on Panasonic producing one more model cycle (new 2013 models) and then they're gone from the plasma/tv market. It reminds me of the last days of CRT.

 

[GraveRobberX]

lolz at that strategy

What Kaz needs is a pair of balls to the make the decision to cut the arms that are sinking the company the most, or massively change them up. Samsung crushed Sony in TV sales because they offered roughly the same quality at much lower prices. What is Sony's TV branch up to these days? Still premium-priced, and the TVs have nothing that makes paying extra worth it.

I still can't believe @ the Sony Pricing.. I mean come the fuck on:

Sony: $5,499.99, 65"
This Is Sony's Top Tier Best of the Fucking Best Model

Samsung: $4,399.99, 60"
This Is Samsung's Top Tier Best of the Fucking Best Model

 

[evilive7]

I still can't believe @ the Sony Pricing.. I mean come the fuck on:

Sony: $5,499.99, 65"

Samsung: $4,399.99, 60"

S - $250
O - $250
N - $250
Y - $250

Yep, totally reasonable pricing.

 

[Finaika]

They should merge with Sega Sammy to become the triple S.

 

[darkwing]

one is 60" and the other is 65"?

 

[evilive7]

one is 60" and the other is 65"?

Is that 5" really worth $1100?

 

[darkwing]

Is that 5" really worth $1100?

+ full-array local dimming LED?

 

[evilive7]

+ full-array local dimming LED?

Since Im not a TV guy, is 5" and that local dimming LED worth $1100?

$1100 is quite a bit of change.

 

[CrazyDude]

S - $250
O - $250
N - $250
Y - $250

Yep, totally reasonable pricing.

Smoking
Opium
Near
You

I tried.

 

[Clockwork]

Is that 5" really worth $1100?

One could argue that Samsung's edge lit LED solutions are horrible, and for the last several years you are pretty much playing the panel lottery when you buy one.

Issues related to screen uniformity, clouding, and flashlighting abound.

I bought a D7000 last fall and returned it because although tech wise it was great (and the price was more than fair), the panel was utter crap and had the problems mentioned above.

It's not really fair to compare it to a full array LED set like the HX929, which is nothing short of amazing.

+ full-array local dimming LED?

Don't try to incorporate facts and logic into this discussion.

 

[GraveRobberX]

one is 60" and the other is 65"?

I wasn't trying to show up Sony, They don't have it in 60"

I took both companies Best Model just as a comparison

To show that $1,000+ for an extra 5" inches isn't going to them large amount of sales
Also look how the Samsung one makes you go Oh Shit!, new tech, No bezel, Need NAO!
While you see Sony's TV and go same model from 2005... Awesome!

 

[GraveRobberX]

It's not really fair to compare it to a full array LED set like the HX929, which is nothing short of amazing.

The public @ large wouldn't give a flying fuck about it
Educated Consumers: Yes
Me: Yes
Most out there: No, Oh that Samsung is cheaper.. Oh OK!

I mean most of it is catered to the video/audiophiles with the bullet-points

I'm just showcasing, a TV Samsung just started rolling out is already dropping faster in price, then Sony staying with their Dinosaur Pricing and bleeding red left and right

 

[darkwing]

One could argue that Samsung's edge lit LED solutions are horrible, and for the last several years you are pretty much playing the panel lottery when you buy one.

Issues related to clouding and flashlighting abound.

I bought a D7000 last fall and returned it because although tech wise it was great (and the price was more than fair), the panel was utter crap and had the problems mentioned above.


It's not really fair to compare it to a full array LED set like the HX929, which is nothing short of amazing.

yup, people don't get the different between edge lit LED and full array local dimming LED

and regarding HX929

http://www.flatpanelshd.com/review.php?subaction=showfull&id=1309426126

To sum my finding up I have to say that in terms of 2D picture quality HX929 / HX920 is one of the best LCD/LED models on the market today but I do not see it as much of an improvement compared to last year’s HX909 / HX900 model.

http://news.cnet.com/8301-17938_105-20077159-1/sony-xbr-hx929-review-best-led-tv-yet-this-year/

One of the best-performing LED-based LCDs we've ever tested, the expensive local-dimming Sony XBR-HX929 competes well with the top plasmas.

but yes it is expensive

 

[evilive7]

This discussion reminds me why Im glad I have a good TV and why Im also glad that Televisions are the one piece of tech that I seem to not really want to keep up with. That $5400 price tag would give me a stroke.

 

[def sim]

Whether the features are worth it or not, that price is in line with other full array LED sets at that size. It's a bad comparison in general.

 

[Clockwork]

I wasn't trying to show up Sony, They don't have it in 60"

I took both companies Best Model just as a comparison

To show that $1,000+ for an extra 5" inches isn't going to them large amount of sales
Also look how the Samsung one makes you go Oh Shit!, new tech, No bezel, Need NAO!
While you see Sony's TV and go same model from 2005... Awesome!

The lack of bezel on the D7000/D8000 series is what is contributing to their quality control issues. Light leakage and corner flashlighting come to mind.

Just look at the main threads for those tv's over at a place like avsforum, not to mention personal feedback from people suck as myself.

The aesthetics can really fool you.


EDIT: Unfortunately the HX929 was out of my price range, so I just went back to my 3yr old Samsung Series 8 LCD.

 

[Tuck]

They got too big for their own good, and are plagued by poor management. Sucks, but they need to restructure significantly.

 

[1-D_FTW]

I wasn't trying to show up Sony, They don't have it in 60"

I took both companies Best Model just as a comparison

To show that $1,000+ for an extra 5" inches isn't going to them large amount of sales
Also look how the Samsung one makes you go Oh Shit!, new tech, No bezel, Need NAO!
While you see Sony's TV and go same model from 2005... Awesome!

It's kind of standard though. And if you're blowing 4 grand on a 60 inch tv, an extra grand for 5 inches isn't out of the ordinary. A 65 inch has a 17.6 percent larger viewing area than a 60 inch. So for people with money to burn, it's really not that much of a premium if you're going on a per square inch basis.

 

[darkwing]

It's kind of standard though. And if you're blowing 4 grand on a 60 inch tv, an extra grand for 5 inches isn't out of the ordinary. A 65 inch has a 17.6 percent larger viewing area than a 60 inch. So for people with money to burn, it's really not that much of a premium if you're going on a per square inch basis.

I think I read somewhere the HX929 even uses edge to edge Corning Gorilla Glass

 

[GraveRobberX]

The lack of bezel on the D7000/D8000 series is what is contributing to their quality control issues. Light leakage and corner flashlighting come to mind.

Just look at the main threads for those tv's over at a place like avsforum, not to mention personal feedback from people suck as myself.

The aesthetics can really fool you.

I'm not saying Sony doesn't have the tech and all the goodies they throw into their TV's

All I'm stating is one of the components hurting SONY is SONY Pricing
There's a reason for why they are in the red in that business segment for over 8+ years

Great it has Full Array, it can make your dog stop barking at night, and can do your homework for you
People will flock to something that is shiny, not done before, and if it is priced it will buy in droves

Do you really think most consumers out there give a flying fuck about all the nonsense

I have 65" Panasonic Plasma VT25, I adore it, paid roughly $3.5k for it, but got 4 year warranty, 2 extra pair of glasses + Avatar 3D thrown in
It's only 1 year old

My mom is pissed, not because of picture quality, or anything that makes a good case for it
She is pissed that Samsung released a Bezel less TV, she wants it
I'm like "Look lad there are problems with it, certain things arise from going Bezel less"
She just wants it, cause it's the hot new shit , and has grabbed her imagination

EDIT: Unfortunately the HX929 was out of my price range, so I just went back to my 3yr old Samsung Series 8 LCD.

"Too rich for my blood"

If most had the money to burn would flock to the best and pay that price
With this economy we are in, and Sony staying hardheaded with prices and standing it's ground, you have to realize, that will come back and bite them in the ass

 

[jmdajr]

Here is just a random search

40 inch TVs for LCDs

Samsung and Sony prices seem about the same.

 

[GraveRobberX]

Here is just a random search

40 inch TVS

The fuck is Affinity?

I understand Dynex or Magnolia but Affinity?

 

[H_Prestige]

I still can't believe @ the Sony Pricing.. I mean come the fuck on:

Sony: $5,499.99, 65"
This Is Sony's Top Tier Best of the Fucking Best Model

Samsung: $4,399.99, 60"
This Is Samsung's Top Tier Best of the Fucking Best Model

The Sony is full array local dimming and is 5" bigger (cost increases a lot in LCD at that size range). Not a good comparison.

I'm not saying Sony doesn't have the tech and all the goodies they throw into their TV's

All I'm stating is one of the components hurting SONY is SONY Pricing
There's a reason for why they are in the red in that business segment for over 8+ years

Great it has Full Array, it can make your dog stop barking at night, and can do your homework for you
People will flock to something that is shiny, not done before, and if it is priced it will buy in droves

Do you really think most consumers out there give a flying fuck about all the nonsense

I have 65" Panasonic Plasma VT25, I adore it, paid roughly $3.5k for it, but got 4 year warranty, 2 extra pair of glasses + Avatar 3D thrown in
It's only 1 year old

My mom is pissed, not because of picture quality, or anything that makes a good case for it
She is pissed that Samsung released a Bezel less TV, she wants it
I'm like "Look lad there are problems with it, certain things arise from going Bezel less"
She just wants it, cause it's the hot new shit , and has grabbed her imagination

When we're talking about high end TVs costing multiple grand, we're no longer talking about "most consumers", but people with a whole of money to burn. For them, price isn't a big concern.

I also doubt Sony is getting killed because of that model. It's got to be a low volume high margin product. They're getting killed at the low/mid end range where margins are nonexistent and consumers only care about getting the best deal. That's where they can't compete with Samsung, LG, Vizio, etc.

 

[jmdajr]

The fuck is Affinity?

I understand Dynex or Magnolia but Affinity?

I was about to say wtf is Synnex

 

[LJ11]

I don't think they're being hard headed when it comes to television prices, they simply can't afford to price them any cheaper. They're losing money hand over fist in that division and the proposed solution is to drop prices, I'm not sure how that makes sense.

Costs are too high, no flexibility with regards to pricing, and as you pointed out most people don't give a shit about paying extra for better quality. They want the cheapest and thinnest set irrespective of quality or performance.

 

[jmdajr]

I don't think they're being hard headed when it comes to television prices, they simply can't afford to price them any cheaper. They're losing money hand over fist in that division and the solution is drop the price, I'm not sure how that makes sense.

Costs are too high, no flexibility with regards to pricing, and as you pointed out most people don't give a shit about the quality. They want the cheapest and thinnest set irrespective of quality or performance.

I was thinking the other day that after size/resolution....thinnest is probably the next most desirable quality. It's not color, refresh rate, contrast, black levels or any of that.

 

[1-D_FTW]

The fuck is Affinity?

I understand Dynex or Magnolia but Affinity?

It's the competition. Which is why Sony is doomed and needs to cut their losses on that division. Lowering prices isn't going to help anything. They're already losing money. It'll just make matters worse for them. They're just not nimble enough to compete in a space that has become completely commoditized. And even if they were, it's not worth the hassle. Their time and resources would be better served in markets that weren't so low reward.

 

[GraveRobberX]

OK Best Buy has got to be trolling

Orion America-Televisions - HDLCD4050 40" 1080p LCD TV - 16:9 - HDTV 1080p - Black

WAT?!?

"Yo' Son, what HDTV is that?"

"O.A.T, Son!"

 

[LJ11]

I was thinking the other day that after size/resolution....thinnest is probably the next most desirable quality. It's not color, refresh rate, contrast, black levels or any of that.

My buddy bought one of those thin Samsung sets, it has that ridiculous refresh rate trick that tries to smooth out frames to reduce ghosting, it looks terrible. His wife noticed it, it kind of bothers her, so I suggested they return and get something else, preferably a plasma. No, this was the thinnest, the plasma was too heavy. It sits on a fucking stand, not your back, enjoy the terrible viewing experience, at least it's thin!

 

[GraveRobberX]

I may have made a wrong comparison, but I was just trying to show a point, which I think I failed miserably

All the goodies in the world will not make most consumers go out buy your product when there are counterparts cheaper and have a charm to them

 

[jmdajr]

My buddy bought one of those thin Samsung sets, it has that ridiculous refresh rate trick that tries to smooth out frames to reduce ghosting, it looks terrible. His wife noticed it, it kind of bothers her, so I suggested they return and get something else, preferably a plasma. No, this was the thinnest, the plasma was too heavy. It sits on a fucking stand, not your back, enjoy the terrible viewing experience, at least it's thin!

I for one love my 98 pound 58 Samsung plasma TV But yeah i understand all that.

 

[Averon]

People that are interested in TVs that's +60 inches in size and cost thousands of dollars are likely ones that have money to burn, so price isn't that much of an issue. Picture quality and features are more of a concern for them than price. What's killing Sony in the TV business is the low to mid range sets that costs <$1000 and are around 32-42 inches. Those are the TVs that the mass market consumers are likely to buy.

 

[jmdajr]

I may have made a wrong comparison, but I was just trying to show a point, which I think I failed miserably

All the goodies in the world will not make most consumers go out buy your product when there are counterparts cheaper and have a charm to them

Well look at how successful Vizio has become selling
"inferior" products. People just liked that value they were getting. I'd never buy one..but I understand.

I still remember when my friend bought his 50 inch Kuro for like 8000 bucks. I thought he lost his mind.
Now he wants a bigger TV.

LOL.

 

[GraveRobberX]

Well look at how successful Vizio has become selling
"inferior" products. People just liked that value they were getting. I'd never buy one..but I understand.

They need to rename Costco to fucking Vizio-Land, Holy Fuck!, you get bombarded just as you enter the store

 

[Deleted member 17706]

That's the problem with TVs... Most consumers don't know a thing. They see a bunch of big-ass screens that are super bright in the show room and go, "damn, is that the 3D?" Then they take home the cheapest unit and hook it up using composite cables so they can watch the football game on a big screen. They are satisfied with this. They leave on the shitty TruMotion-like technologies and think they are enjoying a great viewing experience. It makes it hard for manufacturers like Sony to compete with quality.

 

[evilive7]

That's the problem with TVs... Most consumers don't know a thing. They see a bunch of big-ass screens that are super bright in the show room and go, "damn, is that the 3D?" Then they take home the cheapest unit and hook it up using composite cables so they can watch the football game on a big screen. They are satisfied with this. They leave on the shitty TruMotion-like technologies and think they are enjoying a great viewing experience. It makes it hard for manufacturers like Sony to compete with quality.

Yeah, if you are making some uber TV with all the magical bells and whistles, then you are just wasting your time. A large portion of America just wants a big and bright TV that they can hook all their crap up to.

The two words most people look for are "BIG" and "DEAL."

 

[padlock]

How do you expect people to take you seriously when you say bullshit like this?

May as well just come out and say, "hey guys, I'm totally biased, please disregard what I have to say!"

Really? So anytime someone says that an Apple product is amazing, we should just take it at face value no questions asked, but when someone says that it isn't, they're compeltely biased?

Over the last 3 years, I've used iphones, blackberries, and androids, and I will stand by my opinion that iphones are nothing special. At all. They are certainly far from amazing.

 

[Shadow780]

You'd be surprised how many ppl still think SD pictures they got on HDTV is stunning.

My mom was amazed at the graphics of Wii sports when it came out, until I showed her Uncharted 2.

 

[Deleted member 17706]

Really? So anytime someone says that an Apple product is amazing, we should just take it at face value no questions asked, but when someone says that it isn't, they're compeltely biased?

Over the last 3 years, I've used iphones, blackberries, and androids, and I will stand by my opinion that iphones are nothing special. At all. They are certainly far from amazing.

You changed your words.

You said that there is nothing amazing about the iPhone. Nothing. There is no single aspect of the iPhone that is amazing. That's the bullshit that you wrote.

Sure, the meaning of "amazing" may be subjective and you may be a jaded techno-buff, but I don't think you'll find much agreement that there is nothing about the iPhone which is amazing.

 

[Averon]

Holy...I just read Sony has 30(!!!) different TV models. When 25 out 30 are losing money (pulled this number out of my ass, but you get the point), and many of those are the high volume models, it's no wonder that the TV division is bleeding money profusely. Drastically cutting down the number of models they make and sell will probably do wonders to help that division's bottom line.

 

[timetokill]

You'd be surprised how many ppl still think SD pictures they got on HDTV is stunning.

My mom was amazed at the graphics of Wii sports when it came out, until I showed her Uncharted 2.

And then she was like, "Put the Wii back on, I want to try bowling"

 

[see5harp]

Really? So anytime someone says that an Apple product is amazing, we should just take it at face value no questions asked, but when someone says that it isn't, they're compeltely biased?

Over the last 3 years, I've used iphones, blackberries, and androids, and I will stand by my opinion that iphones are nothing special. At all. They are certainly far from amazing.

Anyone who used an iPhone at launch would tell you the opposite. They started the current smart phone market. They created an online marketplace that combined their existing music, video, podcast libraries and created a great app marketplace (that is still unrivaled for mobile devices). If you are not biased you are certainly ignorant and deserve to be ignored.

 

[Shadow780]

And then she was like, "Put the Wii back on, I want to try bowling"

This was true, lol.

But her fav is Tennis.

 

[padlock]

Anyone who used an iPhone at launch would tell you the opposite. They started the current smart phone market. They created an online marketplace that combined their existing music, video, podcast libraries and created a great app marketplace (that is still unrivaled for mobile devices). If you are not biased you are certainly ignorant and deserve to be ignored.

lol, you Apple fan boys are hilarious. Smartphones existed long before Apple came on the scene. Ever heard of Blackberry's? Apple's first iphone certainly introduced new concepts (touch screen, decent browsing), but it was also incredibly lacking in many ways. The hardware was underpowered, the os unrefined, and the app store did not exist yet.

Still, at the time of release, I will grant that the iphone was a game changer. So what? So was the Palm II in its day, and blackberries in theirs.

Just because a company has a momentary lead on the competition at any one time, doesn't mean that every thing they do should be given a free pass.

These products do not exist in a vaccum. The competition is always moving forward.

As of now, given the current competitive environment, I will completely disagree with anyone implying that iphones are 'amazing'.