Me stating that the iPhone was, in fact, pretty amazing and you outright denying that there was anything great about Apple devices makes me a fanboy? How can you dispute anything I just said? In relation to the smart phones on the market at the time (blackberry, palm, windows mobile), how was iOS and iPhone underpowered or unrefined? It was the smoothest and quickest OS on the market. Even if Apple products and OS designs are as bad as you think they are, how does that relate to Sony and their design? Do you think cutting the fat is all they need to do to instantly appeal to the millions buying Apple products? Do you think it's all marketing and that the people using the products ignore usability and experience? What does your rant about apple have anything to do with Sony needing to streamline their product line to possibly get into a better position financially?
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NY Times: Sony is in "the fight for its life"
- Thread starter shinobi602
- Start date
Me stating that the iPhone was, in fact, pretty amazing and you outright denying that there was anything great about Apple devices makes me a fanboy? How can you dispute anything I just said? In relation to the smart phones on the market at the time (blackberry, palm, windows mobile), how was iOS and iPhone underpowered or unrefined? It was the smoothest and quickest OS on the market. Even if Apple products and OS designs are as bad as you think they are, how does that relate to Sony and their design? Do you think cutting the fat is all they need to do to instantly appeal to the millions buying Apple products? Do you think it's all marketing and that the people using the products ignore usability and experience? What does your rant about apple have anything to do with Sony needing to streamline their product line to possibly get into a better position financially?
Infamous Chris
Banned
You are trying way to hard...
As an admitted Sony fan, I'm glad to see such an objective perspective put out there on the company's troubles these past few years.
The way I see it, they have this year and next to turn around as one major corporation. Otherwise, I really don't see why the gaming division is so closely tied to the other, less lucrative, portions of Sony. A Google buyout has certainly crossed my mind too, but I hope to see Sony consolidate their company and fly straight again like in the '95-2006 days.
The way I see it, they have this year and next to turn around as one major corporation. Otherwise, I really don't see why the gaming division is so closely tied to the other, less lucrative, portions of Sony. A Google buyout has certainly crossed my mind too, but I hope to see Sony consolidate their company and fly straight again like in the '95-2006 days.
CadetMahoney
Member
I'm glad too. So many times you get ppl brushing it off like it was a joke/trolling and that everything is gonna be fine.
Beer Monkey
Member
I remember when cheap chinese DVD players killed the viability and profit margins of Sony's DVD players. Then they shifted more emphasis to flat televisions. My response was that it would be great for them for a while but that the same thing would happen. A Visio from Costco or Sam's has, frankly, more bang for the buck than Sony's sets.
Sony needs a new tech or a greatly expanding tech (Sony wasn't the first to CRT TVs and game consoles, but they had the killer devices when those techs were really blowing up and gaining huge marketshare) to come along for them to dominate for a few years. The CRT television, the portable tape player, the CD player, the DVD player, the game console, the flat television...what is next? There needs to be a next big thing. Then Sony has a chance to try to dominate the market for that thing.
The 'old' things either have cheap chinese competition or emerging competition (MS and Nintendo have brought game in the post-32bit era) that kills Sony's profitability.
To me, it is this simple.
Sony needs a new tech or a greatly expanding tech (Sony wasn't the first to CRT TVs and game consoles, but they had the killer devices when those techs were really blowing up and gaining huge marketshare) to come along for them to dominate for a few years. The CRT television, the portable tape player, the CD player, the DVD player, the game console, the flat television...what is next? There needs to be a next big thing. Then Sony has a chance to try to dominate the market for that thing.
The 'old' things either have cheap chinese competition or emerging competition (MS and Nintendo have brought game in the post-32bit era) that kills Sony's profitability.
To me, it is this simple.
???
Their point is that Apple features 1 phone at a time. They update it every year, but it is still one model.
I'm pretty much a dumb casual when it comes to TVs, so since I have no idea what that is I'm going to side with my $1100. That's why Sony's TVs are collapsing them. If you're going to be that much more expensive then you have to make people want them and tech babble doesn't do it.
Beer Monkey
Member
Also, consumers don't really view 16/32/64gb iPads as three different models, just different storage options.
That's what killed Pioneer. Their sets shit all over EVERYBODY elses but they cost twice as much and at the end of the day people are cheap.
OldJadedGamer
Banned
it is amusing to think that each version of the iPad has 18 different SKUs though.
When was last time Sony came out with a game changing device? 1979 with the Walkman? 1994 with the PlayStation? It's been nearly 2 decades since they've had a game changer.
If every Sony phone supported every type of cellular carrier there would be the same number. Saying there are 18 SKU's for the iPad isn't really the same thing as having multiple lines of televisions with completely different models within each line.
OldJadedGamer
Banned
True. I found it amusing when I went to go buy my iPad and had to pick from 18 of them. But again, my post was more in jest than anything else.
I'm convinced past CEOs never realized that the mid 80s-90s ended long ago, and people were no longer willing to pay twice as much just to have "a Sony."
In a perfect world they'd sell off everything but Music, Movies, and Gaming, or at least bitch slap their electronic divisions into shape.
In a perfect world they'd sell off everything but Music, Movies, and Gaming, or at least bitch slap their electronic divisions into shape.
Captain Tuttle
Member
You've said this once before. Could you explain?
mckmas8808
Mckmaster uses MasterCard to buy Slave drives
The PS3 was a good thing for Sony if done right. The price was too high, but putting a Blu-ray player in it was good. And a lot of the networking stuff is good too.
yurinka
Member
And there were Java / Brew mobile phones before smartphones. They already had a huge gaming marker.
People are migrating from mobile phones to smartphones, and from DS/PSP to 3DS/Vita.
This is the generational change, the "people are migrating from handhelds to iOS" is a giant bullshit, specially considering how small is Apple inside the worldwide phone market.
He's probably counting iPad 1, iPad 2 and new iPad. Then, you add in different storage size, carrier models and etc. Each one of them would represent a different SKU. But, most people will really see it as 3 iPad versions.
bigtroyjon
Member
It's pretty amazing how software sales on handhelds has fallen off dramatically while the iOS market explodes in growth and the two things aren't related. One hell of a coincidence I guess, especially since we've never had a generational change where software sales dropped like this before.
lunchwithyuzo
Banned
R4 and similar cards are what really ate into DS software sales, first in Europe in 2010, then in America in 2011. And really, DS pretty much was the western software the past handfull of years, PSP has only been relevant in Japan awhile now.
3DS/Vita stumbling out the gates didn't help, but software sales often go down during generational transitions. The bigger push towards digital on both (and also DS/PSP more as things went on) also probably objuscates real software sales to some degree since we only ever seem to get retail numbers.
OldJadedGamer
Banned
No, the iPad 2 had 18 skus and the iPad 3 has 18 skus. That is how many seprate iPads they make when you count up all the colors, the different memory and different 3G carriers.
If you buy an iPad today, you must pick from 1 of 18 possible SKUs.
I know this because I had a headache deciding which one I wanted when buying mine
ZombiePlatypus
Member
Yeah, it's kinda nuts how the name used to be regarded as one of the absolute top-tier brands, and now it's merely a viable option among other, equally viable competitors. In terms of gaming, it'll be interesting to see what they do. I highly doubt they can get away with another $599 console.
Apple is not so small in the phone market:
http://blog.nielsen.com/nielsenwire...hones-dominate-new-phone-purchases-in-the-us/
http://tech.fortune.cnn.com/2012/02/02/idc-iphone-is-no-3-worldwide/
With those numbers, you would have to say that the 360 or the PS3 are "small inside the ww game console market".
Stumpokapow
listen to the mad man
What is the current value of smartphone gaming as an industry?
What was the value of Java/Brew gaming say... 5... 6... 10 years ago as an industry?
His point--
The New iPad: 1 SKU
3 Storage Types = 3 SKUs
WiFi or WiFi+3g AT&T or WiFi+3G Verizon = 9 SKUs
White or Black = 18 SKUs
Of course, the consumer views that as 1 product with a few choices they get to make
D
Deleted member 17706
Unconfirmed Member
Except for normal people who aren't trying to make a point, it's three or four simple steps:
1. 4G or Wi-Fi? -> if 4G, choose a provider, too.
2. 16GB, 32GB, or 64GB?
3. Black or White?
Done.
Throwaway123456789
Member
But does it sustain any game makers? IIRC, the 2010 numbers were like 9 billion downloads and only a 7 billion dollar revenue for the entire App Store. Seeing how there's literally hundreds of thousands of games there, where the big hits takes most of the revenue, I can't see people making that much?
OldJadedGamer
Banned
Again, my post was in jest. But it is crazy that there are 18.
No way, choosing between ATT and Verizon and their different plans made me want to pull my hair out.
Throwaway123456789
Member
I just bought a "super cheap" 60" Sharp Aquos LED that is pretty damn good (pretty sure you can get it for under 1000 GBP). It's very affordable and rivals just about anything not in the absolute top class.
dream
Member
Aren't they both $50/5GB with VZW offering a lower 2GB tier for $30 and AT&T offering 3GB for the same amount?
Problem solved tbh
bigtroyjon
Member
I'm not talking about retail numbers, I'm talking about sold/shipped numbers from the hardware manufacturers. After we get Nintendo's FY info next week, I'm going to use FY instead of CY and will be able to go back even further which will highlight how the "generational transition" excuse has no basis on historical data.
Nintendo handheld(GBA, DS, 3DS) hardware, software by year: (shipments, in millions)
2004- 19.16, 90.98
2005- 20.11, 104.33
2006- 25.78, 151.03
2007- 28.77, 189.99
2008- 31.25, 203.19
2009- 28.94, 154.94
2010- 19.46, 129.20
2011- 21.50, 110.66
04-05 is the same type of transition as 10-11. in 04-05 software increased by more than 10% and in 10-11 it decreased by more than 10%.
Alebrije
Member
Sony should focus on the high end user tv market that can pay $5,000 -$10,000 for a set and leave the consumer one. There are so many cheaper brands these days that hardly can compete with the price.
Yo can get a decent LG TV for half the price of a Sony ; Mitsubishi has good ones and even Hitachi and Sanyo.
LG
MITSUBISHI
HITACHI
SANYO
PANASONIC
PHILIPS
SAMSUNG
OLEVIA
VIEW SONIC
SHARP
VIZIO
JVC
RCA
DAEWOO
VESTEL
.....
.
Yo can get a decent LG TV for half the price of a Sony ; Mitsubishi has good ones and even Hitachi and Sanyo.
LG
MITSUBISHI
HITACHI
SANYO
PANASONIC
PHILIPS
SAMSUNG
OLEVIA
VIEW SONIC
SHARP
VIZIO
JVC
RCA
DAEWOO
VESTEL
.....
.
http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,281...orak+RSS+Feed)&utm_content=Google+Feedfetcher
Interesting article today about the Law of Increasing Returns and how Apple is now the benefactor of this with the iOS devices, and MS is ironically the victim (ironic because they once claimed this was a bogus law and MS was unfairly targeted as being a monopoly).
Ties into what I was saying a lot less eloquently before. Sony can't just pull an Apple. What Apple capitalized on was a once in a generation sea change and they and google were the victors of that. Sony needs a realistic gameplay for how they're going to be profitable. There's no magic solution they're going to pull from their hat.
As they should. It's like saying Toyota has 100 Prius models because you can customize the options a bit.
Interesting article today about the Law of Increasing Returns and how Apple is now the benefactor of this with the iOS devices, and MS is ironically the victim (ironic because they once claimed this was a bogus law and MS was unfairly targeted as being a monopoly).
Ties into what I was saying a lot less eloquently before. Sony can't just pull an Apple. What Apple capitalized on was a once in a generation sea change and they and google were the victors of that. Sony needs a realistic gameplay for how they're going to be profitable. There's no magic solution they're going to pull from their hat.
As they should. It's like saying Toyota has 100 Prius models because you can customize the options a bit.
H_Prestige
Banned
SCE would be one of the last divisions to be axed. Isn't it one of the few divisions not bleeding money?
Haunted
Member
On one hand, yes. On the other hand we could get God of War, Uncharted and Gran Turismo on the PC...
That's always the double-edged sword with these - ignoring the business side, a manufacturer going third party means getting premier franchises without having to buy specific hardware. >_>
Not that Sony would be quite at that stage yet. They'll get rid of their big budget studios and concentrate on mobile and handheld gaming before that happens.
Combichristoffersen
Combovers don't work when there is no hair
Or we could end up not getting them anywhere :|
I know about that, but if everything else falls apart, the gaming division wont last forever, unless Sony become exclusively about gaming like Nintendo.
H_Prestige
Banned
Yeah, don't a lot of these games exist because Sony is willing to finance them? Not sure if MS or Nintendo would be so amenable.
Yes. Their gaming division is currently profitable, even the Vita. With Hirai at the helm, SCE is pretty safe.
Throwaway123456789
Member
Eh?
"Vita to be profitable within 3 years - Sony"
http://e3.gamespot.com/story/631823...able-within-3-years-sony/?tag=newstop;title;7
http://jp.reuters.com/article/topNews/idJPJAPAN-21584220110608
I have been saying this for years. It is amazing how many ignorant people there are these days that say Sony just can't compete with Samsung. Do they actually know what they are comparing and even buy or check these products?
I know this may be out of the price bracket of many, and it certainly wasn't an easy purchase for myself either but I bought the 65" HX923 from Sony. All reviews had the Samsung D8000 beating this set hands down. Utter nonsense. I had the opportunity to view both with different material and the Sony showed it up no problem in many different areas. As soon as the lights went off it wasn't even a competition when it came to contrast and black levels. If you go into Sony and Samsung owner forums you find way more disgruntled Samsung owners also. They make some good products for sure, but every time I have seen Sony and Samsung bring their 'A Game' to the TV division I am yet to see Samsung show them up. I would probably say that they are doing a better job of internet content and apps on their sets at the moment but that is the only aspect I would say they have a clear lead.
I understand why people purchase Samsung TV's as many models are good quality for the money they ask. But this whole mentality that spreads across the internet that Sony can't compete against them quality wise is nonsense.
D
Deleted member 17706
Unconfirmed Member
All this Sony doom and gloom makes me want to go buy a Vita.
OldJadedGamer
Banned
Good devs make good games regardless of who publishes. Sony bought these studios and they could just as easily sell them off again. Think of them like they were Bungie.
Combichristoffersen
Combovers don't work when there is no hair
Sony could sell the studios, but what about the IPs?
OldJadedGamer
Banned
They could sell them or keep them.
No, their publisher would pay. Is Bungie making their next game out of pocket? No, Activision is paying.
H_Prestige
Banned
Sony is the one footing the bill. Would GG have been able to make Killzone 2 out of their own pocket?
And why bring up Bungie? They haven't delivered a game since leaving MS so who knows how they will do without them.
lol really?
So no one likes the iPhone for it's app quality, smoothness of it's OS, and way it handles media? The only reason why people say it's "amazing" is due to it being popular.... SMH.
That's your opinion. No one who says that iPhones are amazing should be viewed as being wrong.
Also FYI, a good number who feel that iPhone's are amazing HAVE used other phones.
Anyways, to get back on topic, it is pretty amazing when you compare how the Playstation brand was back during the peak PS2 days to how it is now. Their presence is fading.