-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
Pokemon Sun & Moon Previews (October 12th)
- Thread starter Not75Drops
- Start date
Not75Drops
Member
Obviously they're never going to outright confirm it, so it's an assumption a lot of people have. The games shared dev time with XY (started in Nov 2012). Not to mention that really bad excuse of why there's no Battle Frontier, especially since they still added the Battle Maison, along with the fact that I assume Game Freak considers competitive battling to be challenging and know lots of people put their time into it.
Sammy Samusu
Member
Do they say something about 3D and FPS?
3D is fully disabled now except when using the camera item
3D is fully gone except for the camera.
Brawly Likes to Brawl
Member
Yeah, there's no point in 3d support if it makes battles look choppy.
It wouldn't necessarily give better framerate. It just disables the feature.
Hopefully in part to focus on overall performance - instead of having two distinct featuresets to consider, they only have to worry about the one.
NipplesAndToes23
Member
Glad to see you can still beat 4 year-olds for their snack money.
Kanto is also the most boring region ever, they aren't doing another sequel to gen 1 as no matter how bad their gen 1 pandering is Game Freak at least know that it's better to keep moving forward.
Plus they always start with a new generation on a new hardware.
Yeah between growing pain into shifting into 3D and a rush development gen 6 really suffered badly which frustrated me as I expected so much from them but the game felt like a regression.
Luckily Sun and Moon seems to be a big improvement though we will see when the game releases next month.
UnemployedVillain
Member
What proof do we have Gen 6 was rushed? Because that really is the goto excuse people here use anytime a game turns out somewhat poorly
Sammy Samusu
Member
Cackling.
I agree with this though. Let's hope for the best.
But coming from GF I expect no 3D and 15fps. It wouldn't be a first.
TheGreatLugia
Banned
Masuda said X and Y's development took 3 and a half years, so I don't think it was rushed: http://www.gamefreak.co.jp/blog/dir_english/?m=201311
Not75Drops
Member
I don't think XY was rushed, Game Freak were hiring 3D modelers before the 3DS was even released. ORAS has it's problems outside of development constraints as well.
Why would you bother nerfing tackle?
There's 3D in the photo mode though. (edit: beaten)
tim_pkmn89
Member
Because they boosted it a tad too much in Gens 5-6
MegaManTrigger
Banned
I can't believe people still have faith in Alolan forms for Gen II-onwards Pokemon.
It's clear as day that GameFreak is pandering the shit out of Gen I.
It's clear as day that GameFreak is pandering the shit out of Gen I.
Because Game Freak decided to do a ridiculous level of futureproofing and even put them straight in the game.
Less is more.
It's hard to explain but there was something missing in X and Y compare to the previous generation and it seemed like Game Freak put less effort into going in depth with the Kalos region.
Because it was OP, hur hur hur.
Though I wonder if it's because of Z-Move might make Tackle over powered during the early part of the game if its base power is 50.
TheGreatLugia
Banned
It had a full development cycle of 3 and a half years, though, so whatever issues you're thinking of probably weren't related to any time constraints.
MegaManTrigger
Banned
Look at how each Gen was treated compared to Gen VI. Gen VI got nowhere near the love that Kanto through Unova got. It's story was complete horeshit and abandoned for whatever reason in favour of a new generation (and I say this because I don't think Zygarde will be a huge part in SM considering how there aren't really any traces of Kalos in the game, but I will eat crow if proven wrong).
UnemployedVillain
Member
None of this is proof of anything. Gamefreak arbitrarily removed and adds features. This is like saying R/S were rushed because of all the missing features from G/S
UberTag
Member
I'm blaming Pokemon Go for this development incidentally. We should direct all of our blame there.
I stopped giving them the benefit of the doubt when the battle frontier was missing and they didn't even try to add it through DLC.
MegaManTrigger
Banned
Who said anything about features? My whole point is that each generation was expanded upon with newer releases within the generation, whether it's story/lore, or fixing up gameplay mechanics (G/S >, R/S > E, DP > Pt, BW > B2W2). Gen VI never got that kind of development, which really hurts it considering how terrible its story was, and how terrible its gameplay experience was as a whole.
TheGreatLugia
Banned
Thinking one game is rushed doesn't automatically mean another game with a longer development period is also rushed.
It's indicative of a problem within the company. It's not even a matter of rushing things, it's braindead content policies. There wouldn't be this level of concern if game freak actually supported the games post-launch.
WrenchNinja
Member
You know, I can accept their excuse of "no one played that shit, why bother". It's perfectly understandable. I don't how much work they'd have to do but, I get it. What I cannot accept at all is the replacement being a literal copy paste job of the Battle Maison.
''No one played that shit'' is a really weird excuse considering they found it reasonable to bring the frontier back twice imo (though one of those was a copy paste job too so I guess the precedent was there)
Anyway, I expected the BF to be there and I know a lot of other people did too, at the very least they really ought to have communicated that better. When did we even learn about its absence? Cuz I'm pretty sure Game Freak never talked about it before release
But really, with a series like Pokemon there really isn't an excuse for cuts like that to me, I definitely agree with them needing to support their games post launch nowadays. A dev studio with the success of Game Freak not adding such an expected feature back in in this day and age really baffles me
Was it really, though, by most people who would buy and play the game? The proportion of people who beat games nowadays is so low, I don't think Pokemon is any different. Heavily investing development resources into content that less than 20% of your userbase will see (or even expect) may be something they're just not willing to do over investing that elsewhere. I only started caring about postgame training and breeding super recently.
I'll agree that it'd be nice if Gamefreak provided more support to the games after release though. For example, I think the fact that we didn't retroactively get the ORAS-exclusive megaevolutions on X/Y through a patch is pretty disappointing, because they definitely had the infrastructure for that this time around.
MegaManTrigger
Banned
It was expected for sure. I mean after all, Hoenn was the region that introduced people to the Battle Frontier through Emerald. Not to mention, the fanbase always spend hours upon hours playing the postgame. I broke 700+ hours on HG, and B2 because of the plentiful postgame content they offered (alongside breeding).
The argument that "not enough people play it thus it's not worth adding in" doesn't really make sense. Especially if you cite investment as a reason. Part of the problem with that argument is what is GF even investing in the first place? They don't do post-game release support (aside from fixing game breaking glitches). They don't really do much in the first place, so what are they losing if they add postgame content?
I won't deny that a decent amount of Pokemon's audience wouldn't be interested in the more hardcore offline Pokemon content, but the same would go for the competitive online aspect of Pokemon for example. But within the fandom? Absolutely. The mere fact of it being a major feature in Emerald, and the last set of remakes, Heart Gold and Soul Silver, implementing Crystal's changes in them made it an expected inclusion to many
But yeah, I'm not talking just about the frontier here either. X/Y not getting ORAS megas patched in was unacceptable to me
entremet
Member
It was just their first 3D Pokemon game. It was their training wheels.
Already Torn
Banned
Nah dawg, the Pokémon Professor in X and Y gave you a Kanto starter when you first met him, it's been going on for a while. I blame the fact that everyone bitched about ice cream and trash bags in Gen V, so they just pandered ever since.I'm blaming Pokemon Go for this development incidentally. We should direct all of our blame there.
Can't speak for most people but the Frontier was hands-down my most anticipated feature for the Gen III remakes so needless to say I was incredibly disappointed to not have it in the home of the frontier. Lots of people think of contests with Gen III but I never cared for them, the frontier in Emerald was great though. And honestly I consider the Frontier something in between normal battling and proper competitive, or perhaps even on the side of it.
The Maison, Battle Tower and Subway bore me, because they are just something like a watered down version of proper competitive play. The other facilities offered by the frontiers, however, make a game out of the battle system by adding in other elements. They're like minigames that involve battling and I love it. And I hate to see that kind of stuff left out.
HGSS had various new things that could easily be overlooked/barely touched. It had its whole safari system, the pokeathlon, the pokewalker and even the Gen IV frontier. I can't really overlook leaving out an iconic feature of Gen III in the remakes.
Eh, I don't think the argument doesn't make sense. I think it's disappointing but by that same token I could ask what they'd win by including a feature that's going to add more development time and not be experienced by many people. We'd be running in circles here and I obviously don't have any insight on how the games are developed or their features prioritized. All I can do is hypothesize on why BF wasn't.
PreyingShark
Member
They confirmed in the interview included with the official guide that the game only had a year of development time.
I think that the "We thought it was too hard for today's gamers" excuse given in a different interview was just an excuse because they didn't want to just flat-out say "Our bosses gave us jack shit for time."
Oh, cool. Do we yet know if it's available from early in the game?
Already Torn
Banned
Triple battle is gone too!
PreyingShark
Member
If anything helps with the bad FPS it would be redoing the battle graphics engine. I think I've seen some questionable things in one of the trailers, though...
Just because they got rid of ladders that few people played doesn't mean the modes are necessarily flat-out gone. We'll have to wait and see on that one.
Gonna expand on my reasoning here a bit.
So many features in Pokemon aren't experienced by most people playing these games. With games as big as Pokemon it's only natural the people buying these games are going to be attracted to different things. We'd end up with some very sad games if Game Freak would go ahead and cut every feature that isn't experienced by the majority of their audience
And keeping in mind how big Pokemon is I'd argue there are very few features in Pokemon that haven't been experienced by many anyway, and I'd be really surprised if Emerald's battle frontier would be an exception. That facility was THE post game content in that game, it was a pretty significant addition. Back then, anyone who was serious about their Pokemon would've had some experience with that thing. And it's not like battle facilities haven't continued to be thing throughout the following games, so it's not like Game Freak disagreed.
So with the Battle Frontier being this significant feature back with Emerald, and ORAS being a remake that's first and foremost aimed at the people who played Ruby, Sapphire and Emerald back in the day, I find it to be reasonable for people like me to have considered the BF an obvious inclusion. With that and keeping in mind how Game Freak treated 3rd version content in their previous set of remakes, and I can only assume the BF got cut due to ORAS's ridiculously short development cycle, and Game Freak's apparent trouble with converting the series to 3d.
How does this relate to Sun and Moon at this point anyway? Well, Game Freak had the audacity to tease the Frontier IN ORAS's post game battle facility, so right now I'm under the foolish belief it'll be included in these games instead. I'll probably end up getting disappointed again though ¯\_(ツ_/¯
So many features in Pokemon aren't experienced by most people playing these games. With games as big as Pokemon it's only natural the people buying these games are going to be attracted to different things. We'd end up with some very sad games if Game Freak would go ahead and cut every feature that isn't experienced by the majority of their audience
And keeping in mind how big Pokemon is I'd argue there are very few features in Pokemon that haven't been experienced by many anyway, and I'd be really surprised if Emerald's battle frontier would be an exception. That facility was THE post game content in that game, it was a pretty significant addition. Back then, anyone who was serious about their Pokemon would've had some experience with that thing. And it's not like battle facilities haven't continued to be thing throughout the following games, so it's not like Game Freak disagreed.
So with the Battle Frontier being this significant feature back with Emerald, and ORAS being a remake that's first and foremost aimed at the people who played Ruby, Sapphire and Emerald back in the day, I find it to be reasonable for people like me to have considered the BF an obvious inclusion. With that and keeping in mind how Game Freak treated 3rd version content in their previous set of remakes, and I can only assume the BF got cut due to ORAS's ridiculously short development cycle, and Game Freak's apparent trouble with converting the series to 3d.
How does this relate to Sun and Moon at this point anyway? Well, Game Freak had the audacity to tease the Frontier IN ORAS's post game battle facility, so right now I'm under the foolish belief it'll be included in these games instead. I'll probably end up getting disappointed again though ¯\_(ツ
_/¯They weren't though. That's a common misconception
Masuda is right, you know. They have to keep the games enticing to kids, and like it or not, that's how kids are with games these days. Deal with it.
But what people seem to forget is that the vast majority of development time is on the engine and so forth, so a game that runs the same engine, just with different assets etc. and is a remake of a previous game, the two years from commencement of development and release is perfectly fine. It doesn't mean it's rushed, it means people don't understand game development
MegaMelon
Member
Gonna expand on my reasoning here a bit.
So many features in Pokemon aren't experienced by most people playing these games. With games as big as Pokemon it's only natural the people buying these games are going to be attracted to different things. We'd end up with some very sad games if Game Freak would go ahead and cut every feature that isn't experienced by the majority of their audience
And keeping in mind how big Pokemon is I'd argue there are very few features in Pokemon that haven't been experienced by many anyway, and I'd be really surprised if Emerald's battle frontier would be an exception. That facility was THE post game content in that game, it was a pretty significant addition. Back then, anyone who was serious about their Pokemon would've had some experience with that thing. And it's not like battle facilities haven't continued to be thing throughout the following games, so it's not like Game Freak disagreed.
So with the Battle Frontier being this significant feature back with Emerald, and ORAS being a remake that's first and foremost aimed at the people who played Ruby, Sapphire and Emerald back in the day, I find it to be reasonable for people like me to have considered the BF an obvious inclusion. With that and keeping in mind how Game Freak treated 3rd version content in their previous set of remakes, and I can only assume the BF got cut due to ORAS's ridiculously short development cycle, and Game Freak's apparent trouble with converting the series to 3d.
How does this relate to Sun and Moon at this point anyway? Well, Game Freak had the audacity to tease the Frontier IN ORAS's post game battle facility, so right now I'm under the foolish belief it'll be included in these games instead. I'll probably end up getting disappointed again though ¯\_(ツ
I agree completely. It's insane that they thought it would be a good idea to leave all these references to the BF and it being built when we probably won't see it again. Or at least not in Sun/Moon.
In fact GF is quite weird when it comes to their target audience. On the one hand you have the whole 'Kids are into smartphones only' attitude Masuda has (which is clearly wrong since those kids aren't the ones who own 3ds' and buy he games) but on the other hand just look at all the gen 1 pandering. They're clearly aware of how sizeable the more grown up part of Pokemon's audience is yet don't really seem willing to commit that much to them when it comes to things like this.
And it's odd because even in gen 5 they had the champions tournament which was great and whilst not as big as the BF, a worthy replacement. Also gen 5s plot whilst not amazing was pretty damn good for pokemon, and yet the very next games (XY) had a plot even more laughable than normal pokemon games.
Yes, but they have to encourage players to come in. Game developers can't just pander to their existing audience, they need to expand it else the audience will gradually and noticeably shrink
It's illogical to dismiss what he said just because those kids don't play the games.
TheMagician
Member
I'm waiting for the nailed on HD NX version.
I wouldn't get your hopes up for that. That's not Game Freak's style