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[Gestault]

I'd really like Sony to come out with a clear statement on this topic, especially since they've been given as clear a prompt to do so as they could hope for with this community Twitter campaign.

They haven't done so, and "haven't done so" in a way which I think is on par with the innuendo resulting from Microsoft's unclear but "clear-enough" statements that have already turned community sentiments against them. I don't like this direction, but all we can do is decide if the proposition given us for playing games (once both companies finally do make those plans clearer) is worth the price. Acting as though this means the end of gaming is silly in its own way, but I'm interested to see the direction. I think this scenario, where both Microsoft and Sony exert more control over license distribution than is traditional, will have a cooling effect in the industry at a time where that will have more effect on the health of individual developers than anyone would like.

 

[Meia]

this is about money, now that i learned ms plans to keep a cut of "allowed" used game sales.

News flash, Sony isn't going to say no to money.

Kind of.


Ever since the hacking incident, Sony has bent over backwards to be as friendly to fans as humanly possible. It just may wind up being that Sony being hacked becomes the greatest thing to happen to us for a long time.


BTW, don't expect Sony to officially announce one way or another til E3. Hell, if anything, I'd think that if they don't say officially what the stance is until their conference, they might make it a big bullet point during the conference itself.

 

[Glorified G]

Na I think your the one being naive, cause even in your scenario it is going to be the same thing. Sony is not going to be this shinning Stallion swatting away 3rd parties efforts to implement DRM while still offering the EXACT same games and EXACT same experiences from these same 3rd parties.

Something is going to give, If Sony refuse DRM they are going to not get treated equally by 3rd parties, if they go along then they will be just as bad as MS, if they leave it to the publishers it will be just as bad as MS cause every 3rd party will have a uniform DRM system on both consoles.

This is a big assumption on your part. I don't know how you can assume every third party will opt in to this plan. Having a system mandate with drm could mean this more of ms plan more than anything. Or could be a big push by the big publishers only, or could be by everyone. If drm was really this important to every 3rd party than every cross gen titles would be non existent.

Nobody really knows at this point.

 

[Lucifersam]

The same thing... and PS4 never requiring an internet connection is the same as the XBone and its once-a-day mandatory login right.

It's clear where your allegiance lies

The PS4 might not require an internet connection but if left to 3rd parties the game will which yes will pretty much be the same thing

It's clear where your allegiance lies

You're naive if you think Sony will be allowed to sidestep DRM being pushed by 3rd parties because Sony really love you and will fight for you.

Total BS, Sony is either going to go along with DRM, or get treated differently by 3rd parties, or leave it up to 3rd parties which will mean every game still has DRM or just come out and do the same thing MS is doing.

 

[coldfoot]

As long as they can safeguard against month 1 $55 Gamestop used sales, I think that will make everyone happy. They can either do this by releasing the game 1 month before on digital only, or including an activation code, but disabling the code checks after 1 month.

 

[Midnight Moon]

Also second-hand gaming is big in Japan. I can't s. SONY or Nintendo doing this there. Xbox failed in Japan so I don't think they care about the market.there anymore. Japanese companies are about tradition, I don't see them alienating their home market. Although Sony seems to be more worldwide.company since a lot.of their published games come from western.studios.

 

[benny_a]

Total BS, Sony is either going to go along with DRM, or get treated differently by 3rd parties, or leave it up to 3rd parties which will mean every game still has DRM or just come out and do the same thing MS is doing.

Yeah surely that is bound to happen. It's not like there are various publishers that can independently decide per title if it's a good idea to require an Internet connection or not like they do on PC.

 

[Marleyman]

Utter BS. We've had dozen of threads with people complaining about the total lack of BC for the PS4, for example. Skepticism over how well Gaikai services can fill the gap have been prevalent. Fears over cost have still been abundant. And plenty of people have been pre-supposing that all the worst rumors we'd heard about the XBO would come to be for the PS4 as well (always online, camera required, no used games, etc.). So, only positive talk? Not even close.

All of this went out the window with the threads created since MS announced their system. If people still had so many questions why did so many say they are now getting a PS4 because they care; they don't know what they care about yet; nobody does. The dearth of threads in relation to people skipping the new Xbox for the PS4 have been the reasoning behind what I said.

That the talk has remained generally positive is because thestarted with an initial 2 hr reveal that was heavily-dedicated to games with multiple live realtime demos and in the immediate wake of that there wasn't any Sony talking head completely shitting the bed by contradicting back and forth with other reps about what the policies were and no one said anything that suggested they were going to be draconian about it in the first place.

They have been contradictory right after the reveal. Look up the different quotes.

If you don't think the appetite exists here to hold their feet to the fire like Microsoft's, youhaven't been paying attention to the first page over the weekend. Or during the majority of this past generation.

The appetite is not as strong as it is to crucify MS.

 

[Pagusas]

yep, seriously spit out my drink.

 

[Midnight Moon]

Do you really think that is Kaz or just marketing? It's hilarious

 

[Usobuko]

Do you really think that is Kaz or just marketing? It's hilarious

Parody Account.

 

[Papercuts]

This E3 is going to be so funny.

 

[Beermeister]

Yes Sony fans. Prepared to bend over and take it. You know it's coming...

I will not "take it". Will go PC/Wii U if necessary.

 

[Dabanton]

Sony had a clear score over MS on this issue and the silence from the people that actually make decisions over there speaks volumes. And I know people in their hearts of hearts must know this.

2 weeks till E3 plus contracts probably already drawn up and signed months ago. I don't see an 'acceptable' resolution to this from people concerned.

 

[Lucifersam]

I will not "take it". Will go PC/Wii U if necessary.

Uhh hate to break it to you but DRM and no used games is the standard on the PC.

 

[marrec]

Part of Microsoft's problem is one of communication. They don't control the message that they're putting out so they can't give anyone a coherent answer. Sony is taking a different approach, silence is smart for a time, but eventually you start to look like you're afraid to answer the question.

It's a simple matter really, either they have plans to implement some kind of anti-used game DRM with the PS4 or they don't. The fact that they've not given any kind of coherent statement on this fact thus far is troubling because it stinks of them trying to come up with a creative and non-threatening way to agree with Microsoft.

Of course, they could just be waiting until E3, but then you lose control of the messaging just as much as Microsoft has.

 

[Dabanton]

Uhh hate to break it to you but DRM and no used games is the standard on the PC.

Looks like it's just the Wii U for him then.

Good luck if his serious.

 

[Knux-Future]

The PS4 might not require an internet connection but if left to 3rd parties the game will which yes will pretty much be the same thing

It's clear where your allegiance lies

You're naive if you think Sony will be allowed to sidestep DRM being pushed by 3rd parties because Sony really love you and will fight for you.

Total BS, Sony is either going to go along with DRM, or get treated differently by 3rd parties, or leave it up to 3rd parties which will mean every game still has DRM or just come out and do the same thing MS is doing.

The PS3 allows for Publishers to do what they want now. but yet not every game has DRM.

I mean shit, the system allows for dudes to region lock their games...only ONE game did this.

so that is a reach.

especially since not every publsiher/developer is capable.

as for getting treated differently..yeah that can happen (pretty sure it is in the contracts for the sports games that exclusivity is not allowed IIRC so they will still be multi-plat), but if the PS4 takes off , do you really think they will still not make games for it?

if they are bleeding money like they claim, they really can't afford to not put games out on a system that sells. Nintendo isn't the best example since 3rd party games bomb on their consoles and the Wii U is selling like asscheeks.

It's not as cut and dry as you make it seem. Sony likes money and if DRM gets them more money then that will be the sole reasons. "oh no EA wants us to" or well everyone will do it..has little to no bearing.

 

[JDSN]

From one Pope to another - Shuhei Yoshida has remained quiet on the issue.

YES!

 

[kaching]

All of this went out the window with the threads created since MS announced their system. If people still had so many questions why did so many say they are now getting a PS4 because they care; they don't know what they care about yet; nobody does. The dearth of threads in relation to people skipping the new Xbox for the PS4 have been the reasoning behind what I said.

Do you really think most of those people won't INSTANTLY change their minds if Sony confirms they're doing the same as Microsoft?

They have been contradictory right after the reveal. Look up the different quotes.

If you have something specific in mind, feel free to post it. I am not aware of anything they've done so far to contradict themselves on anywhere near the same scale as MS has. or just Phil Harrison by himself.

The appetite is not as strong as it is to crucify MS.

GAF is just warming up, be patient. Isn't that what you've been telling everyone else?

 

[daveo42]

Their continued silence is troubling.

Any new information will come directly from a news release from Sony on the issue. Even if it's just to say that used games will work the same as PS4 as it does with PS3, it'll be carefully worded so remove any confusion about the subject because everyone is watching to see what happens.

Best bet, publishers will have the option to implement a system similar to Xbox One, but Sony will not make it mandatory for all games. Similar to region locked games now.

 

[Beermeister]

Uhh hate to break it to you but DRM and no used games is the standard on the PC.

You apparently don't know the law for used media where I live...

 

[Marleyman]

Part of Microsoft's problem is one of communication. They don't control the message that they're putting out so they can't give anyone a coherent answer. Sony is taking a different approach, silence is smart for a time, but eventually you start to look like you're afraid to answer the question.

They haven't been silent. Look up the vague statements.

 

[legacyzero]

I think they may just have it, but it's exactly as they explained it originally as "letting the publishers decide". (I'm paraphrasing of course).

I think it's better for Sony that the don't make it mandatory for the console, so they don't take the heat for it as bad. You want somebody to blame, blame EA. Blame Activision. Blame Ubisoft.

I think it's fair that Sony leave it up to the pubs, so they can show their colors as we know they will.

 

[Knux-Future]

They haven't been silent. Look up the vague statements.

from february.

Why are you still on this.

Microsoft said stuff. Sony danced around it.

People tend to go harder against the one who virtually confirmed it and give the vauge party benefit of the doubt. If the tables were turned and Sony had dudes leaking drm info whilst Microsoft was vauge or silent...then Sony would be getting lit up.

Microsoft only went vauge after Phil shat it out...it was too late then.

and trust me if/when Sony lets out the bad news...they will get theirs.

so what is the problem?

 

[daveo42]

They haven't been silent. Look up the vague statements.

They're making statements, but nothing that says what their strategy will be. A lot of it has been a reaction to current events with the issue and some offhand remarks about the problems with it on Xbone. No one has outright said what their strategy is, but looking at Microsoft, they have multiple talking about definite plans then backtracking to cover their assess in the wake of negative publicity.

Sony hasn't been silent, but they haven't spilled the beans on what is actually going on or will happen.

 

[Marleyman]

Do you really think most of those people won't INSTANTLY change their minds if Sony confirms they're doing the same as Microsoft?

The fact that they have made up their minds without logically thinking this through makes me not that confident they will.

If you have something specific in mind, feel free to post it. I am not aware of anything they've done so far to contradict themselves on anywhere near the same scale as MS has. or just Phil Harrison by himself.

I am at work and have posted their vague statements last week a few times.

 

[Marleyman]

from february.

Why are you still on this.

Because they said things and haven't said shit since.

Microsoft said stuff. Sony danced around it.

Shouldn't we be upset as well at the one who isn't talking about it rather than the one who is at least admitting it to a point?

and trust me if/when Sony lets out the bad news...they will get theirs.

so what is the problem?

I am sure they will. The problem is that so many have committed to a system without anything concrete in place.

 

[Uno Venova]

Because they said things and haven't said shit since.


Shouldn't we be upset as well at the one who isn't talking about it rather than the one who is at least admitting it to a point?


I am sure they will. The problem is that so many have committed to a system without anything concrete in place.

You're saying some people aren't upset that they haven't made their plans crystal clear?

 

[Knux-Future]

you are letting the console warriors cloud your view.

I am sure there will be some idiots saying shit like "Microsoft made them do it' or "it's not as bad as Microsoft" or if the tables were turned the same dudes would be all of a sudden for DRM.

Don't let that group matter.

They are dumb and only in it for dickwaving (or pussy flaunting..) contests.

But there are also those without any allegiences that will be pissed at both for this.

 

[emb]

Thread title is some what misleading... only the article namedrops Gaf, not Sony exces.

Nonetheless, this is the first I've seen the "We hear you <3" quote. That sounds a little promising, but I doubt it's really anything meaningful.

 

[AcceptableGhost]

this twitter account is amazing

 

[Marleyman]

You're saying some people aren't upset that they haven't made their plans crystal clear?

Some are upset; not the majority. Most have made it clear they are buying a PS4 over the Xbox because of what was said, without taking into account that Sony may end up doing something very similar.

 

[coffeetable]

Their continued silence is troubling.

Why? I think it would be much more effective to make a grand announcement at the fast-approaching E3. That's where most of the questions will be answered anyway.

Wouldn't they come to look like such dicks if they publicly said "We're listening," only to announce features that are the same as those that started the outcry? I can't see that happening.

 

[Uno Venova]

Some are upset; not the majority. Most have made it clear they are buying a PS4 over the Xbox because of what was said, without taking into account that Sony may end up doing something very similar.

Which is easily explained by almost no rumors for it, and Sony not saying any plans on it like MS did. I don't see the controversy.

 

[ReaperXL7]

Third parties are the dark horses in all of this, not Sony and MS.

third parties cant survive supporting only one console, budgets are far to big for games these days for that to be the case. As it stands right now Sony has a greater chance at securing worldwide success then Microsoft does if only because the PS4 does not require an internet connection. So unless EA wants to go out of busniess, they will deal with it.

I have no idea if Sony will act on any of this, but I would think Sony would have told their people to keep their mouths shut entirely about any of this. I want to believe that they are responding at all is a positive sign, if not then I hope both consoles cash and burn. My rights as a consumer are more important to me then some videogames.

 

[Marleyman]

you are letting the console warriors cloud your view.

I am sure there will be some idiots saying shit like "Microsoft made them do it' or "it's not as bad as Microsoft" or if the tables were turned the same dudes would be all of a sudden for DRM.

I hear you; this is my first console launch w/ GAF and it has been interesting to say the least.

But there are also those without any allegiences that will be pissed at both for this

I am pissed that the industry is going this way; I just see inevitability. We, the consumers, can decide to speak with your pockets and continue the twitter wars; I am all for it.

 

[Lucifersam]

You apparently don't know the law for used media where I live...

Well lucky for you then but most of the world that plays pc games have to deal with DRM and no used sales.

 

[Marleyman]

Which is easily explained by almost no rumors for it, and Sony not saying any plans on it like MS did. I don't see the controversy.

Why would you blindly support something that you don't know dick about?

 

[see5harp]

Fuck that noise I don't want it the same as the Playstation 3. Give me the ability to rent and borrow games and also get rid of your idiotic online pass. That isn't doing anything aside from kill the population in online games aside from the crazy mega hits.

 

[Uno Venova]

Why would you blindly support something that you don't know dick about?

What do you mean blindly or dick about, we know a good bit about the two consoles.

 

[Marleyman]

What do you mean blindly or dick about, we know a good bit about the two consoles.

So you know what Sony is doing w/ DRM to make you clearly say you are buying it over the Xbox One?

 

[kaching]

The fact that they have made up their minds without logically thinking this through makes me not that confident they will.

Here's a concept - people can offer their snap judgment at any time based on facts they have now and continue to evaluate and reassess their decision as more facts become available. If we're thinking logically, we know this is possible.

I am at work and have posted their vague statements last week a few times.

You didn't say "vague", you said "contradict". I certainly agree they've been vague on a number of things, but you previously suggested they contradicted themselves just as badly as MS has. I haven't seen that but if you can provide an example, between work and all your other frequent posts here, I'd appreciate it.

 

[Brickhunt]

For the moment, Sony can afford the silence. E3 is in two weeks. I'll be worried if this point isn't brought in E3.

 

[Uno Venova]

So you know what Sony is doing w/ DRM to make you clearly say you are buying it over the Xbox One?

Oh I've already mentioned the little rumors on them doing it, and rumors suggesting they won't which is why there is less talk about it overall.

 

[megashock5]

Disclaimer: I haven't given though to specifics here, but in general I'm just curious...


The DRM around used games, loaning, renting, etc. definitely sucks - but my main concern remains longevity of the games I buy. I want them to work ten years from now.

What if Sony had a DRM system, but it worked in some other way then a daily online check? What if you needed to put the disc in every ten times to verify ownership (just a crazy example) so that the lifespan of the games wasn't tied to how long they keep the servers running?

Not optimal, obviously, but wouldn't hurt quite as much as MSs reported system, IMO.

 

[TheJollyCorner]

For the moment, Sony can afford the silence. E3 is in two weeks. I'll be worried if this point isn't brought in E3.

I agree- but you can bet your ass that even if they don't address it during the conference, post-conference interviews will pound away at the issue.

After the Microsoft fallout, Sony can't afford not to address it directly.

 

[Marleyman]

You didn't say "vague", you said "contradict". I certainly agree they've been vague on a number of things, but you previously suggested they contradicted themselves just as badly as MS has. I haven't seen that but if you can provide an example, between work and all your other frequent posts here, I'd appreciate it.

Yoshida - "So, used games can play on PS4. How is that?"

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2...gamer-playstation-4-will-not-block-used-games

Yoshida - "More distressingly, when asked about online registration for used games, Yoshida said that the decision was up to individual publishers, and that Sony is "not talking about that plan" for its own first-party games."

http://arstechnica.com/gaming/2013/02/sony-uk-exec-ps4-used-game-question-isnt-clarified-just-yet/

Gara - "Well, first of all, we haven't stated that second-hand games... we haven’t made a statement on the second-hand games question," Gara said. "The answer to the pre-owned question isn’t clarified just yet and we’re working through that and we’ll announce our position in more detail as and when we can."

http://arstechnica.com/gaming/2013/02/sony-uk-exec-ps4-used-game-question-isnt-clarified-just-yet/

 

[mclem]

third parties cant survive supporting only one console, budgets are far to big for games these days for that to be the case.

Except I'd wager that said third parties also believe that they can't survive without getting extra revenue from used sales, so supporting a console which doesn't allow them to do that would be self-defeating.

I question whether they're right on that point, of course, but I suspect they're seeing a catch-22, here. The question is whether they can convince Sony of that.

 

[Mr.Wreckless]

I wish this whole "Sony is for the gamers" sentiment would stop.

Sony is not going to make a decision based on what is best for gamers. Their bean counters are going to forecast their profits and if they can make more money with DRM than they can without it then they will go in that direction and vice versa.

If they decide not to implement DRM at all it is because they feel they can make more money taking that route and nothing more.