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[theignoramus]

I didnt watch the presentation at all, (i gather it was quite obnoxious) so I had no emotion one way or the other going into it.
But Ive enjoyed my trial with Tidal immensely. I especially like their selection of playlists, that Angie Martinez "Mobbed Up" playlist had me bumping shit I hadnt heard in a decade. I havnt really even made it out of the rap and jazz playlists, but what little exploring Ive done, I managed to favourite a playlist made up entirely of "underground" Finnish artists. I dont mind paying the price of two CDs a month, but I can understand how the service would seem redundant if you already have Spotify. (I dont)
They need to get on top of the app crashing though, its crashed like half a dozen times on my Android phone and 3 times on my desktop.

 

[Sir Abacus]

Well they did name their service after laundry detergent.

 

[arts&crafts]

Interesting that Ariana Grande's music is on spotify and it has seen steady increases lately.

Thats because Big Sean said on instagram he is going to **** her or something

 

[Slayven]

Well they did name their service after laundry detergent.

They are starting a "Wave" of taking back the music for the artist

 

[AyaisMUsikWhore]

I would say there's an element of untruth that building a platform on being "more fair for the artist" and more benevolent than your competitors and then offering the same unfair revenue distribution model that their competitors use. Their lack of transparency does not absolve them of not being truthful to their audience. After claiming how it was good for artists, they should have talked about their revenue distribution model and how it would be different and more fair.

I don't want to make excuses because I'm not a spokesperson for the company, but I don't think it's fair to hold them to being oh so transparent when once again, all other services have to be pressed for that information. We would have never knew how much Spotify was paying artist unless the artist themselves complain. They weren't upfront about it at all from day one, and even though on we are not on the receiving end of this screw over, I don't really care for what consumers have to say about something they aren't even buying into themselves. The freemium version to Spotify clearly shows that the incentive to move to premium is very slow and almost non moving. Where's the support?

But they didn't. Because for label-signees, it isn't anything different or more fair. It may be different for independents, but for artists already on a label, Tidal isn't that much better than the companies they're slagging.

And we're not saying Spotify is the One True streaming service, it's just that Tidal's advertising team thought it was a good idea to pick a fight with Spotify and Pandora and we just like them better.

As I linked before, it's not ALL about the labels. Part of that is their fault for not explaining more about that before hand and part of that is also because they haven't been able to do so. They got pelted for their ridiculous pretentious marketing, but there was a message behind all of it and it surely wasn't because people like Spotify and Pandora the most. I don't think theirs one quote that said they were in the business to destroy or stop people from listening to those two service. It was strictly a way for artist to have control of something they don't have control over. Where this marketing that says "Anti- Spotify and Anti- Pandora"

Tidal is not a disruptor; it's just a brand new competitor. That doesn't mean it'll change things up just by entering the market.Tidal wants to be for everyone, but its special features that make it unique are basically only for rich audiophiles. The audiophile market is very niche, but untested. There may be a place for Tidal there. But they want Spotify's, Pandora's and Rdio's audience, too.

Tidal dived into a red ocean with that, so they'll struggle in convincing people to change services without some very drastic, consumer-oriented changes. And if they want to back up their claims of being good for artists, they're going to have to do more for them, too. I'm talking using their power to strong-arm the labels into more fair distribution deals with artists, and lower -not higher- price points for consumers.

Do you think we hate them because we're jealous? That makes absolutely no sense. We're mad because they tried to guilt trip us into making a bad financial decision and their lofty claims don't add up. If these rich artists really wanted to make things better for artists less powerful and rich than they were, they should have picked a fight with the major labels and lessened their power. Not increased the size of the pie so more just so happens to trickle down to the artists on labels.

Let me get you some facts..

Most of the negativity around Tidal and its re-launch, with 16 huge star stake holders, has come from the perceived message that these millionaire musicians only want more money. A perception that high profile musicians with enough power to change the music industry are not promoting all music, and only looking out for themselves and their own music.

Since Jay Z acquired the service earlier this year Tidal has gained its star-studded owners and added a $9.99/month pricing tier, but not a lot has actually changed with the path it’s been headed down.
Tidal has had different programs its been working on for awhile, which are just now launching, or will be soon.
“I think it’s a little unfortunate there’s been a rush to judgment, but ultimately we’ll be judged based upon our actions,” said Vania Schlogel, Chief Information Officer of Tidal.
“We are in the process of launching initiatives that we’ve been working on for months. The first two are Tidal X and Tidal Rising and the next will be Tidal Discovery, so we’re all very excited about that.”

Tidal Rising
Tidal Rising is about emerging artist awareness and is in the process of rolling out on Android, iOS, and the Web. It will highlight smaller and independent artists. There will be dedicated places throughout the service for indie artists, where the majority of Tidal users will have a chance to see and hear them. As an example, Lili K has been one of the first Tidal Rising artists.
Tidal Discovery
Some of the features not yet released are the most interesting, however. Tidal Discovery will make it more seamless for artists to upload their music and have more and better control over how easy it is for consumers to listen quickly.
“When it comes to the distribution of music, I want to get a point where there are no blockades for artists in order to be able to easily do that for themselves,” Schlogel said.
Typically artists have to go through third-party services to get their music on to streaming services.
There’s also the aspect of listening data. Typically distributors retain 100% of the data generated from user’s listening, including locations and email addresses. Tidal will soon have an artist dashboard where this type of data is available to all artists.
“It’s built and we’re slowly rolling this out so that more and more artists can get access,” said Schlogel. “The end game being that we want everyone to be able to self upload their own music and then track it very intuitively through this artist dashboard.”

Tidal has been publicly dinged for not doing more for independent artists, but it’s also doing things other streaming music services are not. For example, instead of the industry standard of paying indie labels 55% and majors 60%, Tidal is paying record labels 62.5% across the board regardless of size.
“I think indie artists who come on to Tidal through their label can at least have the piece of mind that their label is not being paid less of a percentage just by virtue of being indie,” Schlogel explained.

Sure, they aren't even trying

 

[avrophantasm]

The funny joke about this is Tidal is being raked over the COILS just for not talking about everything, but Spotify literally had to be pressed until almost extinction to talk. They never gave any specifics about payout when they launched. No one in support of Spotify has ever said anything about it. They were pretty much DOA when they first arrived on the scene as well. But you know what happened to Spotify later on,

They expanded their library
They expanded their global footprint
They expanded their funding because they were just a small startup

They had a CHANCE to become what they are today. The problem with Tidal is that they haven't got a CHANCE to explain or even remotely show anyone what they really are in it for. I'm not going to argue the marketing because it does suck and it does present the company PERCEPTION as being rich musicians crying about not being paid enough when that's not the real issue. I do believe that the service is dedicated on bringing artist front and center and spreading that wealth somewhere. I don't agree with putting bigger artist upfront as the showcase for this service, however, producers and big hit people do have some pull in this industry against those big publishers that do try to get away with their bull minus Taylor Swift. At the end of the day, these artist that we find "rich" still don't have the pocketbooks to shell out money and screw around the way that Apple, and Google can.

At this point, i'm moving off the subject. At the end of the day, wanting this service to fail is stupid, ridiculous, hypocritical and disgusting at best. The hate is coming from people who aren't a fan of the people involved but not from people who are really looking for the answers to figure out what this industry needs to do to help smaller artist do away with big publishers taking away their rights as well as cutting those middle men out.

I think Tidal has a long way to go, but I refuse to count it out. So far, the things that they have reached out to do that really does separate them from Spotify is going unnoticed but people already made up their mind about the service. Sooner or later from now, I feel like it's going to comeback and be that service it was actually designed to be. I'm sorry but I'm optimistic and it's not because it's Jay Z. He bought the service but it existed before him.

Tidal and their stakeholders already had a chance to explain themselves and what they really were going to do and how it was supposed to help; it was during their big media rollout. And when it comes down to it, they aren't doing anything new or better for anyone, which they need to do in order to grow. They still make sure labels get most of the cut, and the labels are the middle men who are causing trouble. Sure it has potential, but I've read some interviews and articles, and the people behind Tidal are just really wrong-minded. They seem to believe in what they're doing, but they don't seem to understand how the industry and music consumers have changed, and you need new strategies in order to survive in that new environment. Not that Tidal hasn't been making moves, but to spread the way they want to, they're going to have to change their entire pricing scheme and philosophy.

You're doing all this name-calling, but I don't think you really understand what's going on. I don't know why you're taking the fall of a business so personally. The fact they have a $20/month tier, which would cause a subscriber to spend more money in a year than what the average consumer spent on music in the industry's peak in 1999, shows that they don't care about you or consumers in general. Tidal is not you, for heavens sake.

I didnt watch the presentation at all, (i gather it was quite obnoxious) so I had no emotion one way or the other going into it.
But Ive enjoyed my trial with Tidal immensely.
...
They need to get on top of the app crashing though, its crashed like half a dozen times on my Android phone and 3 times on my desktop.

Hmm...I can see how you feel that way. It's just that Tidal and Spotify have similar interfaces and offer similar things, so if you're attached to one, you probably won't go for the other. However, I would think that the fact the app crashes often would be a pretty big problem?

 

[demon]

No shock there.

Shame no one is giving Spotify a run for their money though. They need to get their ass into gear and sort out their developers.

Happily using Google Play Music thank you very much.

 

[DarkFlow]

I don't want to make excuses because I'm not a spokesperson for the company, but I don't think it's fair to hold them to being oh so transparent when once again, all other services have to be pressed for that information. We would have never knew how much Spotify was paying artist unless the artist themselves complain. They weren't upfront about it at all from day one, and even though on we are not on the receiving end of this screw over, I don't really care for what consumers have to say about something they aren't even buying into themselves. The freemium version to Spotify clearly shows that the incentive to move to premium is very slow and almost non moving. Where's the support?



As I linked before, it's not ALL about the labels. Part of that is their fault for not explaining more about that before hand and part of that is also because they haven't been able to do so. They got pelted for their ridiculous pretentious marketing, but there was a message behind all of it and it surely wasn't because people like Spotify and Pandora the most. I don't think theirs one quote that said they were in the business to destroy or stop people from listening to those two service. It was strictly a way for artist to have control of something they don't have control over. Where this marketing that says "Anti- Spotify and Anti- Pandora"





Let me get you some facts..






Sure, they aren't even trying

Damn, you taking this harder than Jay-Z is.

 

[Cyan]

At the end of the day, wanting this service to fail is stupid, ridiculous, hypocritical and disgusting at best.

Totally fine to disagree with the consensus here, but maybe dial it back a little.

 

[AyaisMUsikWhore]

Tidal and their stakeholders already had a chance to explain themselves and what they really were going to do and how it was supposed to help; it was during their big media rollout. And when it comes down to it, they aren't doing anything new or better for anyone, which they need to do in order to grow. They still make sure labels get most of the cut, and the labels are the middle men who are causing trouble. Sure it has potential, but I've read some interviews and articles, and the people behind Tidal are just really wrong-minded. They seem to believe in what they're doing, but they don't seem to understand how the industry and music consumers have changed, and you need new strategies in order to survive in that new environment. Not that Tidal hasn't been making moves, but to spread the way they want to, they're going to have to change their entire pricing scheme and philosophy.

You're doing all this name-calling, but I don't think you really understand what's going on. I don't know why you're taking the fall of a business so personally. The fact they have a $20/month tier, which would cause a subscriber to spend more money in a year than what the average consumer spent on music in the industry's peak in 1999, shows that they don't care about you or consumers in general. Tidal is not you, for heavens sake.

1) It's $9.99
2) I just linked you things they are doing differently compared to other streaming services out there
3) Raising how much you give to labels helps label give more to their artist. Paying labels less, doesn't help them pay their artist more. However the structure isn't to pay labels but also right holders who can include the artist themselves. They are allowed to own their own stuff if they make it.
4) I don't have tidal, never paid for it, never tried out the free trial, not interested in it right now because Spotify+Hype Machine+ Soundcloud has served me well, but I am down for someone providing an all in one service that I can potentially switch too without needing all three which no one has inched towards doing.....besides Tidal...go figure.
5) I think people, including what I'm responding to, is a problem that the service needs to fix and get away from. People are claiming they are tone deaf when the initial reveal has been the only thing tone deaf. Everything they have done so far and planning on doing in the future are things you do need several separate services to do and so far, they are trying to do right.

Damn, you taking this harder than Jay-Z is.

I'm not. I just love music and I really want to see something change in this industry. I'm just not for jumping to conclusions about something that could have the potential to really bring something to the table to get other on their game. I love Spotify but because of their huge dominance in the industry, the perception that they are GODs is uncomfortable when sooner or later they are going to find ways to milk that status and start their ad schemes again. Which they have...go figure. Streaming is the future whether the big guys like it or not, but I want artist to have a better platform to be independent and have someone help them for a change. I think there is still space for that...

Totally fine to disagree with the consensus here, but maybe dial it back a little.

I used colorful words so I'm sorry but I'm not being literal lol!

 

[BennyBlanco]

As soon as I saw that video of a bunch of washed up 40 year olds saying there's no egos in this room as they sipped dom perignon and soaked in each other's farts, I've been hoping this flopped. Glad to see it panning out.

 

[RedAssedApe]

nothing beats free

 

[Koodo]

Tidal's pungent hypocrisy was exposed when some of their "exclusives" were barred from iTunes as well.

Trying to present a charade of caring about what artists get paid and not putting it on the single biggest source of revenue for musicians in the modern age.

Simply [sipping] in the presence of this flop.

 

[avrophantasm]

I don't want to make excuses because I'm not a spokesperson for the company, but I don't think it's fair to hold them to being oh so transparent when once again, all other services have to be pressed for that information. We would have never knew how much Spotify was paying artist unless the artist themselves complain. They weren't upfront about it at all from day one, and even though on we are not on the receiving end of this screw over, I don't really care for what consumers have to say about something they aren't even buying into themselves. The freemium version to Spotify clearly shows that the incentive to move to premium is very slow and almost non moving. Where's the support?

They needed to be transparent in order for them to successfully communicate that they were going to do what they claimed. You're whining about us giving Spotify an unfair pass, but it was the Tidal advertising crew who pitted their new service against what was already on the market. They're the ones with something to prove when they start slinging mud.

As I linked before, it's not ALL about the labels. Part of that is their fault for not explaining more about that before hand and part of that is also because they haven't been able to do so. They got pelted for their ridiculous pretentious marketing, but there was a message behind all of it and it surely wasn't because people like Spotify and Pandora the most. I don't think theirs one quote that said they were in the business to destroy or stop people from listening to those two service. It was strictly a way for artist to have control of something they don't have control over. Where this marketing that says "Anti- Spotify and Anti- Pandora"

I didn't say it was all about the labels. You're not really listening to what I'm saying. But the labels are a big part of it all and you just can't ignore them and the stranglehold they have on a lot of artists.

They are competitors now, fighting over the same user base. Of course they want to take consumers from their rivals; that's the whole damn point of being in business. Also, they positioned themselves as being anti-Spotify and Pandora by positioning their business as the more moral choice than what's already on the market. That's the subtext to their message.

Let me get you some facts..

...


Sure, they aren't even trying

I didn't say they weren't trying, they're just going in the wrong direction for consumers and not doing enough for artists. Of course the goddamn chief officer of information is going to talk up their service, that's their job. And I already know about Rising and Discovery. I think it's a nice gesture, even. But If they're going to tackle the industry's massive problem with how unfairly artists in general are being screwed over, they're going to have to take on the labels. That's where they'll make real change, if they're willing.

They've got some new uploading options for independents; that's great. But they haven't done anything for the other artists already on labels that need help. It's the same old, same old.

 

[this_guy]

1) It's $9.99
2) I just linked you things they are doing differently compared to other streaming services out there
3) Raising how much you give to labels helps label give more to their artist. Paying labels less, doesn't help them pay their artist more. However the structure isn't to pay labels but also right holders who can include the artist themselves. They are allowed to own their own stuff if they make it.
4) I don't have tidal, never paid for it, never tried out the free trial, not interested in it right now because Spotify+Hype Machine+ Soundcloud has served me well, but I am down for someone providing an all in one service that I can potentially switch too without needing all three which no one has inched towards doing.....besides Tidal...go figure.
5) I think people, including what I'm responding to, is a problem that the service needs to fix and get away from. People are claiming they are tone deaf when the initial reveal has been the only thing tone deaf. Everything they have done so far and planning on doing in the future are things you do need several separate services to do and so far, they are trying to do right.

I use Rdio. Why should I as a consumer switch to Tidal?

I pay $9.99 and I'm satisfied with music playing at 320kbps. I don't care for the lossless tier and wouldn't pay more money for it because I doubt I'll hear a difference when listening on my smartphone (I have Sennheiser Amperior headphones, probably one of the best portable cans you can get without needing an amp)

So with Tidal being a new entrant to the music streaming business, they need something to entice me to switch. Offering the same quality at the same price as competitors isn't going to excite anyone.

 

[hipbabboom]

A old lady trying to be cool.

You guys are cruel. We'll all get old someday. Pray you won't have a hard time in your twilight years desperately trying to hold on to the relevance you may have spent your entire lifetime cultivating. I was nearly moved to tears for her seeing that gif. Then Drake hurt her like he did in public. People for forgetting to treat others like they want to be treated. As if recent times wasn't bad enough, people still wont let her forget about Gigli

 

[Puppet Shadow]

You guys are cruel. We'll all get old someday. Pray you won't have a hard time in your twilight years desperately trying to hold on to the relevance you may have spent your entire lifetime cultivating. I was nearly moved to tears for her seeing that gif. Then Drake hurt her like he did in public. People for forgetting to treat others like they want to be treated. As if recent times wasn't bad enough, people still wont let her forget about Gigli

I'm older than Madonna, and even I thought mounting the table was a little too 'Lets show everyone I'm still sexy'. And she deserved that look from Drake, you don't go shoving your tongue down people's throats uninvited.

That said, I still find her hot.

 

[avrophantasm]

1) It's $9.99
2) I just linked you things they are doing differently compared to other streaming services out there
3) Raising how much you give to labels helps label give more to their artist. Paying labels less, doesn't help them pay their artist more. However the structure isn't to pay labels but also right holders who can include the artist themselves. They are allowed to own their own stuff if they make it.
4) I don't have tidal, never paid for it, never tried out the free trial, not interested in it right now because Spotify+Hype Machine+ Soundcloud has served me well, but I am down for someone providing an all in one service that I can potentially switch too without needing all three which no one has inched towards doing.....besides Tidal...go figure.
5) I think people, including what I'm responding to, is a problem that the service needs to fix and get away from. People are claiming they are tone deaf when the initial reveal has been the only thing tone deaf. Everything they have done so far and planning on doing in the future are things you do need several separate services to do and so far, they are trying to do right.

1) Many argue that it's still too much. There's a reason why only a small fraction of Spotify's user base are subscribers. It appears $5/month is the sweet spot to reach mass appeal and adoption; and that price point may be possible if you cut out the middlemen.
2) It's a nice thing to do. But the labels are still the bigger problem and nothing will change until they are dealt with.
3) I've already said that increasing the size of the pie really doesn't solve the problem. The way the pie is divided is still unfair.
4) You're a music lover and therefore right in Tidal's targeted demographic, yet you won't switch services because their competitors already satisfy you.

...

I don't see why you are so ardent about defending them because they aren't much better for the industry than their rivals. I'm not saying things should stay the way they are, but Tidal really isn't worth defending. It's better to save your energy for when someone better comes along.

1)I'm not. I just love music and I really want to see something change in this industry. I'm just not for jumping to conclusions about something that could have the potential to really bring something to the table to get other on their game. I love Spotify but because of their huge dominance in the industry, the perception that they are GODs is uncomfortable when sooner or later they are going to find ways to milk that status and start their ad schemes again. Which they have...go figure. Streaming is the future whether the big guys like it or not, but I want artist to have a better platform to be independent and have someone help them for a change. I think there is still space for that...


I used colorful words so I'm sorry but I'm not being literal lol!

I'm not jumping to conclusions. I'm a music lover myself. Even I had a bit of hope in Tidal's good intentions at first. But I ended up doing a fair amount of research, and I've come to the conclusion that, while change needs to happen, Tidal isn't cut out for being the one to instigate those changes. Tidal can't be the flagship for change because they can't turn to face the elephant in the room; the power the labels still have over many artists.

Disruption and creative destruction always comes from an unexpected place. It can't come from people who only understand and got rich from the old way. I read some of Jay-Z's interviews concerning Tidal, and while I don't doubt that he really believes in what he's doing, I get the impression he really doesn't understand these fundamental economic concepts. He talks about how he wants to go back to how music was valued in the old record store days, but when it comes to the cycle of consumerism, there's no going back.

 

[Crud]

As soon as I saw that video of a bunch of washed up 40 year olds saying there's no egos in this room as they sipped dom perignon and soaked in each other's farts, I've been hoping this flopped. Glad to see it panning out.

This thread is great for pure hate!

 

[Nokterian]

Wait wait there is a defense force for tidal like really? More entertainment for me!

 

[ronito]

The "Tidal moment" has become a thing.

In the last few days I've sat in 2 different meetings with 2 different set of people from 2 different companies and have heard the term "They're having a tidal moment" being referred to when a company fails so badly it increases their competitor's revenues. To have such a huge failure to launch is one thing. But to have such a spectacular failure that it becomes part of the business vernacular within a few weeks? I've never seen such a failure.

 

[DagsJT]

I kicked off a trial if Tidal yesterday and it's pretty decent. The playlists are far better than Spotify, All Access and Rdio too. But really, for £10 a month, the playlists are the only real positive difference from the other services.

On the other hand, it was missing albums that are on other services (Masta Ace, for example) which is a shame.

I'm not tied to any service, I've switched so many times lately, but Tidal is really as good as fgw other services. And that's fine and a good start. But it really needs to do a lot to really take off, stand out and make people want to switch.

Edit: In saying that, there's a large number if albums in Rdio marked as "unavailable" but are available in Tidal.

 

[Slayven]

The "Tidal moment" has become a thing.

In the last few days I've sat in 2 different meetings with 2 different set of people from 2 different companies and have heard the term "They're having a tidal moment" being referred to when a company fails so badly it increases their competitor's revenues. To have such a huge failure to launch is one thing. But to have such a spectacular failure that it becomes part of the business vernacular within a few weeks? I've never seen such a failure.

one way to advance brand awareness

 

[Nasser]

The Madonna curse really hit Tidal hard... :|

 

[krypt0nian]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dG9_craOmIU

An earnest appeal...

 

[xxracerxx]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dG9_craOmIU

An earnest appeal...

Hahaha

 

[DECK'ARD]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dG9_craOmIU

An earnest appeal...

This is amazing.

 

[Dynamite Shikoku]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dG9_craOmIU

An earnest appeal...

lol

 

[krypt0nian]

I am almost ready to donate.

 

[faridmon]

Wait wait there is a defense force for tidal like really? More entertainment for me!

There is a defence force for pretty much anything these days on GAF.

 

[cDNA]

You guys are cruel. We'll all get old someday. Pray you won't have a hard time in your twilight years desperately trying to hold on to the relevance you may have spent your entire lifetime cultivating. I was nearly moved to tears for her seeing that gif. Then Drake hurt her like he did in public. People for forgetting to treat others like they want to be treated. As if recent times wasn't bad enough, people still wont let her forget about Gigli

Uh Gigli, was JLO not Madonna.

 

[nib95]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dG9_craOmIU

An earnest appeal...

Amazing.