• Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.

Tim Sweeney say earlier praise has nothing to do with Sony's $250 million dollar investment

Hmm... so you are a systems engineer.
Actually I am a computers’ engineer but Sony trying weird tactics is not new and you don’t need to be anything to see how the ps5 was engineered. We are talking about the same company that was hyping the cell as the biggest revolution in processors (and then was begging nvidia at the last minute for a graphics card for the ps3 cause the cell couldn’t cut it) and the company that pulled the infamous E32005 where they presentEd a bunch of cgi videos masquerading as gameplay.

Thankfully the ps5will be released alongside the XSX this time so Sony couldn’t pull offf another E32005 cause they had to show , almost ready to be released, launch/launch window titles.
 
Last edited:
Actually I am a computers’ engineer but Sony trying weird tactics is not new and you don’t need to be anything to see how the ps5 was engineered. We are talking about the same company that was hyping the cell as the biggest revolution in processors (and then was begging nvidia at the last minute for a graphics card for the ps3 cause the cell couldn’t cut it) and the company that pulled the infamous E32005 where they presentEd a bunch of cgi videos masquerading as gameplay while calling poor xbox360 (that had ACTUAL gameplay Demi’s there), Xbox 1.5.

Thankfully the ps5will be released alongside the XSX this time so Sony couldn’t pull offf another E32005 cause they had to show , almost ready to be released, launch/launch window titles.
Sweet. Here you go. If you're a real one and you've work on this stuff before, I've been looking for you among all these posters for a long time! Give us breakdowns man, I genuinely want to know the whys and hows. Like is the PS5 Variable clocks any different than what we see on PCs? The fluctuation or CPU/GPU speeds? Do you know where this 9TF number is coming from that keeps popping up?
 
Sweet. Here you go. If you're a real one and you've work on this stuff before, I've been looking for you among all these posters for a long time! Give us breakdowns man, I genuinely want to know the whys and hows. Like is the PS5 Variable clocks any different than what we see on PCs? The fluctuation or CPU/GPU speeds? Do you know where this 9TF number is coming from that keeps popping up?
I am not into consoles but consoles are basically computers these days. I don’t want to write what I BELIEVE Sony did cause I would be banned ...again. Nevermind if you check my post history you will how I was exposing the various fake insiders (when they were worshipped by most people here), with real arguments, and was banned for it.
 
I am not into consoles but consoles are basically computers these days. I don’t want to write what I BELIEVE Sony did cause I would be banned ...again. Nevermind if you check my post history you will how I was exposing the various fake insiders (when they were worshipped by most people here), with real arguments, and was banned for it.
Well shit, I'll check those out.
 

CatLady

Selfishly plays on Xbox Purr-ies X
Sounds like you're the butthurt one, making up lies to feel better. Please name the "tons" of 3rd party devs, I'm waiting. 99% of devs praising PS5 are Epic (vast majority) and...unnamed "devs" anonymously messaging Jason before the specs were revealed (hmm... ) or random sites like Gameblog.fr.

When even Geoff of all people, a huge Sony fan, called Tim Sweeney out on how he kept dodging Xbox questions (even when asked multiple times), you know there's something up. Otherwise he wouldn't get so weird and dodgy literally every time he is asked about Xbox.


Well there's Naughty Dog, Sony 1st party, Godfall devs Sony 3rd party timed exclusive, Quantum Error devs Sony 3rd party exclusive. Edit - Oops I missed Sony 1st party devs, Insomniac :pie_roffles: :messenger_tears_of_joy: :pie_roffles:

Xbox also has lots of 1st party and 3rd party devs making exclusive/timed exclusives saying XsX is the best. 🤣
 
Last edited:

Snake29

RSI Employee of the Year
You clearly know how to prove the complete opposite of your intended point.

4 out of 4 of the tweets in that OP are all Naughty Dog devs or former Naughty Dog devs. LOL. And I partook in that topic: the consensus was that it was a majority 1st party devs with the random odd 3rd party dev (one particularly very, VERY pro-Sony anyway), which led to insecure people spamming devs twitters to try and add to the topic and it eventually dying.

Nice try, though.

yeahyou have clearly gone throught those whole 64 pages. Sorry dude but you just like to ignore the fact that indeed the PS5 gets a lot of praises and not only on twitter. But other guy is right. You guys seem more butthurt then ever since the UE5 reveal on PS5.

whats your point? All the praising are fake and only 12TF will rule the world?
 
Last edited:
Well there's Naughty Dog, Sony 1st party, Godfall devs Sony 3rd party timed exclusive, Quantum Error devs Sony 3rd party exclusive. Edit - Oops I missed Sony 1st party devs, Insomniac :pie_roffles: :messenger_tears_of_joy: :pie_roffles:

Xbox also has lots of 1st party and 3rd party devs making exclusive/timed exclusives saying XsX is the best. 🤣
XSX doesn’t need damage control, it is the most powerful console (for the time of its release) since the original Xbox (which for me is the best, hardware-wise , console ever released for the time of its release). It actually has specs (12.2 Tf RDNA2GPU, 3,8 GHz Zen2 CPU) that people couldn’t believe were possible before MS unveiled it at TGA. MS really should have spent a bit more and put 20 GBs of Ram inside this beast.
 

CatLady

Selfishly plays on Xbox Purr-ies X
Why are people keep mentioning the entire worth of epic ? That is not the cash flow of epic, it is their entire worth, I mean this is like saying that MS has a trillion $$ available, they don’t. 250 million$ is an extremely substantial cash injection for epic.

Additionally it appears Epic might actually be a little tight on cash at the moment as they are looking for investors to buy in for $750M. Fortunately for Timmy, Sony just picked up the tab for 1/3 of the money they need with their $250,000,000 contribution.

 

quest

Not Banned from OT
and you really think deals like these are good for gamers in general?
Probably not but Microsoft needs to put on their big boy pants and respond. In house development of their own engine to avoid dependence on others. Putting top software engineers on fixing unreal 5 when they get it and pass the fixes and optimizations to 3rd parties. Spend money on a few more studios or the blockbuster WB acquisition. Sony made a great move they need to respond. Balls in Phil's court.
 

The_Mike

I cry about SonyGaf from my chair in Redmond, WA
Sony: Tim come on say something nice about the ps5.
Tim: I don't know man, I kinda like beefy hardware...
Sony: we give you a check that says 250 million dollars.
Tim:

IVyd9S4.png
 

GreatnessRD

Member
XSX doesn’t need damage control, it is the most powerful console (for the time of its release) since the original Xbox (which for me is the best, hardware-wise , console ever released for the time of its release). It actually has specs (12.2 Tf RDNA2GPU, 3,8 GHz Zen2 CPU) that people couldn’t believe were possible before MS unveiled it at TGA. MS really should have spent a bit more and put 20 GBs of Ram inside this beast.
You don't think 20GBs of RAM wouldn't be overkill? Most games don't even take advantage of the 16GBs of ram most folks have in their PCs.
 

Snake29

RSI Employee of the Year
XSX doesn’t need damage control, it is the most powerful console (for the time of its release) since the original Xbox (which for me is the best, hardware-wise , console ever released for the time of its release). It actually has specs (12.2 Tf RDNA2GPU, 3,8 GHz Zen2 CPU) that people couldn’t believe were possible before MS unveiled it at TGA. MS really should have spent a bit more and put 20 GBs of Ram inside this beast.

This sounds like damage control.
 
This sounds like damage control.
For what exactly ? What is the hardware issue of the XSX that needs damage control ? It has everything, but the amount of memory, perfect, in fact way better than anybody would believe a year ago. You won’t find variable clock rates, slow Ram e,t.c here, even its SSD is more than fine.
 

Bo_Hazem

Banned
Just remember that Sweeney himself confirmed that nanite will run on both consoles and will be awesome on both. There is nothing in that piece of text saying that only the PS5 can do it. And yes, PC will get it too with DX12U.

That's not what the post all about, and it should scale down to other platforms indeed.

“The storage architecture on the PS5 is far ahead of anything you can buy on anything on PC for any amount of money right now. It’s going to help drive future PCs. [The PC market is] going to see this thing ship and say, ‘Oh wow, SSDs are going to need to catch up with this.”


You've read this more than a million times already and you know it, so let's not derail the thread.
 

Ascend

Member
That's not what the post all about, and it should scale down to other platforms indeed.

“The storage architecture on the PS5 is far ahead of anything you can buy on anything on PC for any amount of money right now. It’s going to help drive future PCs. [The PC market is] going to see this thing ship and say, ‘Oh wow, SSDs are going to need to catch up with this.”


You've read this more than a million times already and you know it, so let's not derail the thread.
It's not derailing when Sweeney is praising one console specifically, while other platforms can do the same thing. Sweeney had a clear incentive for doing this specifically with PlayStation. He wasn't doing it out of the kindness of his heart. It's the same dude that said the PS3 was easy to code for, which we all know is not true.

Timestamped;


So call me crazy, but his words should be taken with a grain of salt. Actually, so should the word of anyone that is trying to sell you something.
 

Bo_Hazem

Banned
It's not derailing when Sweeney is praising one console specifically, while other platforms can do the same thing. Sweeney had a clear incentive for doing this specifically with PlayStation. He wasn't doing it out of the kindness of his heart. It's the same dude that said the PS3 was easy to code for, which we all know is not true.

Timestamped;


So call me crazy, but his words should be taken with a grain of salt. Actually, so should the word of anyone that is trying to sell you something.


Ok so you don't believe what he says, that's ok. That puts our discussion to an end. Have a nice night. :messenger_winking:
 

Ascend

Member
Ok so you don't believe what he says, that's ok. That puts our discussion to an end. Have a nice night. :messenger_winking:
Oh I know exactly what he was saying and I believe every word of it. But people prefer to interpret it in a way that suits them, rather than reading what he actually said. Basically he said there was no secret deal, but a public deal in that old tweet of his;

There's not some secret deal. 100% of the stuff we've been working on with Sony over the past months is now publicly announced


And look at that pcgamer.com article... They say;
"Sweeney said in response to one such suggestion on Twitter that serious talks with Sony didn't begin until after the Unreal Engine 5 demonstration. "


But that is not what Sweeney said. This is what he said;
"Serious investment discussions followed from the Unreal Engine 5 demo we showed on PlayStation 5. I guess they liked it!"


It does not say that serious talks with Sony didn't begin until after the UE5 demo demonstration. It says that the investment discussion followed from the UE5 demo. It does not say the investment came after they showed it. He just mentioned that they showed it in May.

Do you really think Epic is going to create such a demo, and then show it, without Sony knowing anything about it? And after it was shown, that Sony was somehow just as impressed as everyone else and they decided to invest in Epic? That's not how business works. They need Sony's approval for such a showing. The world is not rainbows and unicorns. The world is business and legality. They were in bed with Sony for a long time before the demo was shown. The demo was prepared by both Sony and Epic. The final investment, if it really solidified after the UE5 demo showing like he says, is the icing on the cake. And there definitely is a huge cake there.

People and their reading comprehension problems... And the gaming websites are just as guilty with their clickbait articles and misinterpretations/misrepresentations of statements.
 

Bo_Hazem

Banned
Oh I know exactly what he was saying and I believe every word of it. But people prefer to interpret it in a way that suits them, rather than reading what he actually said. Basically he said there was no secret deal, but a public deal in that old tweet of his;

There's not some secret deal. 100% of the stuff we've been working on with Sony over the past months is now publicly announced


And look at that pcgamer.com article... They say;
"Sweeney said in response to one such suggestion on Twitter that serious talks with Sony didn't begin until after the Unreal Engine 5 demonstration. "


But that is not what Sweeney said. This is what he said;
"Serious investment discussions followed from the Unreal Engine 5 demo we showed on PlayStation 5. I guess they liked it!"


It does not say that serious talks with Sony didn't begin until after the UE5 demo demonstration. It says that the investment discussion followed from the UE5 demo. It does not say the investment came after they showed it. He just mentioned that they showed it in May.

Do you really think Epic is going to create such a demo, and then show it, without Sony knowing anything about it? And after it was shown, that Sony was somehow just as impressed as everyone else and they decided to invest in Epic? That's not how business works. They need Sony's approval for such a showing. The world is not rainbows and unicorns. The world is business and legality. They were in bed with Sony for a long time before the demo was shown. The demo was prepared by both Sony and Epic. The final investment, if it really solidified after the UE5 demo showing like he says, is the icing on the cake. And there definitely is a huge cake there.

People and their reading comprehension problems... And the gaming websites are just as guilty with their clickbait articles and misinterpretations/misrepresentations of statements.

Well, they can't talk about that demo without permission from Sony, that's common sense. Do they have a deal with them? Why not? Does it change any of the facts or make what is shown as lies/wrong even with extensive description? No.

Until proven wrong, people can't just run with that being false and the demo would work as exactly as PS5, which will not happen in the near future without a new coding for massive RAM's (64-128GB) instead.
 

sircaw

Banned
Oh I know exactly what he was saying and I believe every word of it. But people prefer to interpret it in a way that suits them, rather than reading what he actually said. Basically he said there was no secret deal, but a public deal in that old tweet of his;

There's not some secret deal. 100% of the stuff we've been working on with Sony over the past months is now publicly announced


And look at that pcgamer.com article... They say;
"Sweeney said in response to one such suggestion on Twitter that serious talks with Sony didn't begin until after the Unreal Engine 5 demonstration. "


But that is not what Sweeney said. This is what he said;
"Serious investment discussions followed from the Unreal Engine 5 demo we showed on PlayStation 5. I guess they liked it!"


It does not say that serious talks with Sony didn't begin until after the UE5 demo demonstration. It says that the investment discussion followed from the UE5 demo. It does not say the investment came after they showed it. He just mentioned that they showed it in May.

Do you really think Epic is going to create such a demo, and then show it, without Sony knowing anything about it? And after it was shown, that Sony was somehow just as impressed as everyone else and they decided to invest in Epic? That's not how business works. They need Sony's approval for such a showing. The world is not rainbows and unicorns. The world is business and legality. They were in bed with Sony for a long time before the demo was shown. The demo was prepared by both Sony and Epic. The final investment, if it really solidified after the UE5 demo showing like he says, is the icing on the cake. And there definitely is a huge cake there.

People and their reading comprehension problems... And the gaming websites are just as guilty with their clickbait articles and misinterpretations/misrepresentations of statements.



Where you not impressed with the demo they showed? All that detail, 8k this and that. The lighting the sounds?
the way the whole thing loaded on the fly?

Do you not think that was impressive?
 

Ascend

Member
Well, they can't talk about that demo without permission from Sony, that's common sense.
Good.

Do they have a deal with them? Why not? Does it change any of the facts or make what is shown as lies/wrong even with extensive description? No.
What is shown, no. What is said should be scrutinized objectively. Especially from a guy that said the PS3 is easy to code for. People love slamming Phil Spencer for saying stuff, but somehow, we better believe everything Sweeney says... 🤷‍♂️ There is nothing wrong with marketing deals. You kind of have no other choice But for some reason, many people want to deny it exists.

Until proven wrong, people can't just run with that being false and the demo would work as exactly as PS5, which will not happen in the near future without a new coding for massive RAM's (64-128GB) instead.
Yeah... I haven't seen any proof that you need 64GB-128GB of RAM to do the same thing on other platforms. But I guess time will tell.

Where you not impressed with the demo they showed? All that detail, 8k this and that. The lighting the sounds?
the way the whole thing loaded on the fly?

Do you not think that was impressive?
Oh it was impressive. But when people are the most emotional is the best time to manipulate them. It's what marketing is based on. And it works for everything... Consoles, Greenpeace, BLM, feminism... All the same techniques. Marketing is successful in convincing people of stuff that might not necessarily be true. And once you become aware of the techniques, you can build a resistance or even become immune of people trying to sell you things with half truths.

And let's be honest here... The only reason this thread was posted, is to yet again try and deny (or hide) the fact that the main reason Sweeney was praising only the PS5 so much was because of the marketing deal they have with Sony. The $250 million dollar investment came after the UE5 demo? Fine. That doesn't mean money didn't roll before. Sweeney himself implies it in his famous tweet;

There's not some secret deal. 100% of the stuff we've been working on with Sony over the past months is now publicly announced
 
Last edited:

sircaw

Banned
Good.


What is shown, no. What is said should be scrutinized objectively. Especially from a guy that said the PS3 is easy to code for. People love slamming Phil Spencer for saying stuff, but somehow, we better believe everything Sweeney says... 🤷‍♂️ There is nothing wrong with marketing deals. You kind of have no other choice But for some reason, many people want to deny it exists.


Yeah... I haven't seen any proof that you need 64GB-128GB of RAM to do the same thing on other platforms. But I guess time will tell.


Oh it was impressive. But when people are the most emotional is the best time to manipulate them. It's what marketing is based on. And it works for everything... Consoles, Greenpeace, BLM, feminism... All the same techniques. Marketing is successful in convincing people of stuff that might not necessarily be true. And once you become aware of the techniques, you can build a resistance or even become immune of people trying to sell you things with half truths.

I am just abit confused, you have proof that it was excellent, even you agree it was impressive. what more do you want or want to see rather?
 

Bo_Hazem

Banned
Yeah... I haven't seen any proof that you need 64GB-128GB of RAM to do the same thing on other platforms. But I guess time will tell.

According to that demo, they said that they were already pushing that 16GB to the max, and that's on the fly. So you would have a big chunk preloaded into the RAM so you it would make sense to ask for at least 64GB, only assumption as could be more or less. No one knows how big the demo is anyway.
 

sircaw

Banned
Honestly? I'd want to see consumers being less gullible.

I really am not following your point, they show the demo running on a ps5, its damn impressive, whats there to be gullible about?The proof is in the pudding, they are showing it for everyone to see.

If they were hiding it fair enough but there not.

So your arguing for the sake of people being gullible.

Why not just enjoy the tech demo, and think about how amazing its going to be in the future.
If i recall unreal engine is one of the most popular engines out there, so probably its going to be used a lot.
Everyone's a winner in my eyes.
 

Ascend

Member
Why not just enjoy the tech demo, and think about how amazing its going to be in the future.
If i recall unreal engine is one of the most popular engines out there, so probably its going to be used a lot.
Everyone's a winner in my eyes.
If everyone thought like that, this thread wouldn't exist....

I think I was clear enough with my posts, about people being manipulated by marketing. And I also said that no one can argue with what we saw, but that we should always take what is said with a grain of salt when someone (or anyone) is clearly trying to sell you something. That is all.
 

sircaw

Banned
If everyone thought like that, this thread wouldn't exist....

I think I was clear enough with my posts, about people being manipulated by marketing. And I also said that no one can argue with what we saw, but that we should always take what is said with a grain of salt when someone (or anyone) is clearly trying to sell you something. That is all.

I ...suppose.
It feels a bit strange to address it from that type of angle, at least to me but everyone is entitled to their opinion.

It just feels slightly strange to me hehe
I am done with the convo, last reply, thanks for chit chat.
xxxxx
peace
 
I think I was clear enough with my posts, about people being manipulated by marketing.

I can sort of see that but it's not like it's a target render like the Killzone 2 trailer. And it was running on a PS5 and they manipulated the demo in real time.

What I'm trying to say is that while it isn't proof of what games will look like it's proof of what's possible on the PS5. If I had the demo on my system I would expect it to look the same and play the same.
 

Bolivar687

Banned
I would humbly encourage others in this thread to consider the possibility that Tim Sweeney has always been opinionated and that he has also had a bone to pick particularly with Microsoft going back at least to the rumors that DX12 was setting up Windows to go closed platform a few years ago, and they indeed changed direction after Sweeney spoke out.

I would also ask others in this thread to humbly consider the possibility that the PS3's development difficulties were largely overstated by Microsoft-friendly developers and media allies and that Sweeney's comments about the ease of developing on PS3 were relative to console development up to that point, not compared to the Xbox 360. Herman Hulst is on record saying the PS2 was much more difficult to program for than the PS3 and the incredible leap to Killzone 2 from the first Killzone (already a bar-setting game in its day) substantiates that.

It's probably also a good idea to rationally evaluate whether you honestly think that corporations really do spend $250 million in exchange for a few kind words on Twitter.

Finally, I just need to say Unreal Tournament III on PS3 was the fucking bomb.
 
Last edited:
It's probably also a good idea to rationally evaluate whether you honestly think that corporations really do spend $250 million in exchange for a few kind words on Twitter.

I honestly don't see Sony paying Tim Sweeney 250 million just to say nice things about the PS5. Some people are acting like it's celebrity endorsement when it actually isn't.

I personally believe that it's in Sonys interest that an engine used by alot of 3rd parties has support for the PS5s I/O system built in. That's why I'm not surprised that all this happened. After all Tim did admit to a collaboration with Sony to help develop that I/O system in the PS5.
 

StreetsofBeige

Gold Member
I would humbly encourage others in this thread to consider the possibility that Tim Sweeney has always been opinionated and that he has also had a bone to pick particularly with Microsoft going back at least to the rumors that DX12 was setting up Windows to go closed platform a few years ago, and they indeed changed direction after Sweeney spoke out.

I would also ask others in this thread to humbly consider the possibility that the PS3's development difficulties were largely overstated by Microsoft-friendly developers and media allies and that Sweeney's comments about the ease of developing on PS3 were relative to console development aup to that point, not compared to the Xbox 360. Herman Hulst is on record saying the PS2 was much more difficult to program for than the PS3 and the incredible leap to Killzone 2 from the first Killzone (already a bar-setting game in its day) substantiates that.

It's probably also a good idea to rationally evaluate whether you honestly think that corporations really do spend $250 million in exchange for a few kind words on Twitter.

Finally, I just need to say Unreal Tournament III on PS3 was the fucking bomb.
Of course Hulst is going to praise PS3. Guerrilla Games got bought out by Sony in 2005, and KZ2 was the showpiece for the system. For sure he's going to say PS3 is great.

To prove what a pain in the ass PS3 was to program, just about every multiplat game looked or ran better on 360, yet the first party Sony games looked great. So it shows there's a divide. Logically, a more powerful system should show better looking first and third party games and a weaker system the same thing but on the weak side. But it wasn't like that for last gen.

Nobody said Sweeney's $250 million was for a couple positive tweets and that's it. It is unknown what the deal involves, but it surely has to do with UE5, promoting the PS5 brand and something involved with EGS.
 

jakinov

Member
Especially when there are 250 millions involved.
They bought a fraction of the company, they didn’t hand him 250 m to pocket. He literally has to trade 250M in value for it. Epic was also reported to have started trying to raise funds in June with a bunch of other companies that aren't Sony, after the demo. There's literally 0 evidence that the investment was so that Tim would lie for them. Many people are praising the PS5 for the same reasons as Tim. People are just butthurt because they want compliments for the Xbox or they are offended by his PC comment.

Everything in your post is kool aid, nvidia, ati e.t,c don’t know better than Sony and its mythical «customisations»? How do you know that any of what you write is true ? The whole graphics’ industry is moving to a different direction so that is «boring» , what in the world are you talking about ?

How is the SSD a....bottleneck for the XSX, hell the XSX is an extremely balanced system where everything seems like it will be working in harmony, everything in it is just great and RELIABLE. The ps5 , on the other hand, is an underpowered console with CPU&GPU which we still don’t know their average clock speeds (since Sony didn’t bother to provide the lower end of the variable clock speeds) with much slower ram for the most part and just an ultra fast SSD which some people have come to believe that it will produce graphics or something.

Sony wanted a cheaper machine that could be BC with the ps4 , that’s why the 36 CUs . The ps4 was an extremely conservative console too and so is the ps5. The only difference is that MS isn’t coming with another Xbox one, a very underpowered console, but with a true monster of a console which I bet , just by looking at it , that it is way better engineered than the monstrosity that seems to be the ps5.

Anyway the DF comparisons will come and we will see who is right. This is the insiders’ bs all over again.
Nvidia and AMD build GPUs and work on making their GPUs great. Sony (and Microsoft) are building full on systems/compute with more than just a GPU where a bunch of different have to work together. It's not about knowing better than AMD and Nvidia it's about putting together a system that's beyond the traditional going to AMD/Nvidia and asking for something more expensive with more raw theoretical performance. The customizations help the components work together and not bottleneck each other The custom components offload work from each other or do things very well that a general purpose CPU will not be efficient at doing.. Even Microsoft has custom components in their system that supposed to reduce bottle necks when components interact with each other in real workloads. They just have far less (at least publicly disclosed). It's not interesting to a technical person like Tim Sweeney that Microsoft asked for the better chip, it's interesting when you are innovative and new not being iterative. Sony could have again asked for the same GPU the Xbox has. Phil Spencer pretty much said the same thing last E3, that AMD was making the chips for both companies and it was pretty much just how much they want to spend. Sony decided spent more on the SSD the custom components around it (and possibly their audio chip) than raw theoretical compute power.

The SSD can be a bottleneck because if a developer is going to rely on pulling on using data when they need it instead of incase they need it, then having a slower SSD is going to be bigger bottleneck for those workloads. Both Microsoft and Sony are pushing to developers about how now they can just get the data when they need it. It's the whole reason for the Xbox Velocity architecture. Having slower storage will increase the chance of GPU/CPU idling which is time wasted where the GPU/CPU isn't don't doing work. The way games used to be made is like Amazon.com having a warehouse full of items that they think people will buy because it takes a very long time to get inventory. The new way is that getting inventory is fast enough that's its practical to just store what you need when you need it instead of having things stored in case you need it. In the new way, how fast you can get inventory to do your deliveries has an impact on how many deliveries actually get done. The longer the inventory takes, the more likely there are some workers at the warehouse that are doing nothing. Sometimes, you can find other things to keep the workers busy but not always. Having to make sure workers are busy doing those times is also extra overhead for the person managing the workers and who ever designs the workflow.

The faster RAM will be bottlenecked when you are trying to get data from the SSD to the CPU/GPU. Data is basically going to go as fast as the slowest link. There's a reason it's called a "bottleneck" because no matter how big the bottle is the small bottle's neck is going to limit the whole flow. Just like if you have an 10 Mbps internet connection, you aren't going to download a game/movie any faster if you have a gigabit home network. Not all workloads require getting data from the SSD, but it will likely be more common as again Sony and Microsoft are pushing that this is a great thing you can reliably do now.

Nobody believe that SSD itself will produce graphics. It's that the SSD and the components around it help the GPU/CPU work more efficiently in certain workloads and these workloads will arguably be more prevalent next-gen because like I said Microsoft and Sony are pushing it.

I don't know where you get the idea that the Xbox is extremely balanced. Not that it's not balanced but so far Sony has disclosed more things that they've done to actually arguably balance their system.

Sony got less CU for two reasons. Because they believe it would be easier for the developers to work with and because they wanted to also focus money on other components.

You're throwing around a whole lot of highly subjective compliments on the Xbox without any justification and based on the other things you've been saying I don't think you have a strong technical background to really make these kinds of judgments.
 

Dontero

Banned
Is this all from Fornite? Because this entire generation we barely saw Unreal used unlike the previous generations and I'm shocked how they're making money without the licensing fees.

Yes. Fornite is unbelievably huge. Minecraft huge.

Just one year they earned like 7-8 Billion from it. For comparison Sony market cap is around 90Billion.
 
Say what you want about sony and sweeney, but this really is a strategic masterstroke from sony. A lot of games will be made using unreal engine and sony will ensure that their version has the edge of Microsoft’s - it may not be in the framerate, but there will be things sonys machine will have that series x versions won’t like no loading times and less expensive lighting techniques that don’t throttle the system. Series x is powerful, but with a more efficient machine and better tools, ps5 games will look better and load faster.
 

Redlight

Member
I really am not following your point, they show the demo running on a ps5, its damn impressive, whats there to be gullible about?The proof is in the pudding, they are showing it for everyone to see.

If they were hiding it fair enough but there not.

So your arguing for the sake of people being gullible.

Why not just enjoy the tech demo, and think about how amazing its going to be in the future.
If i recall unreal engine is one of the most popular engines out there, so probably its going to be used a lot.
Everyone's a winner in my eyes.
There are several points that still haven't been settled and ALL people should be wary of these kinds of tech demos for good reasons.

1) The demo was not from an actual game and an actual game may not be able to reach the same level of fx/fidelity.
2) We don't know if that demo needs the full speed of the PS5 SSD to function. It may run exactly the same on Series X.
3) Sweeney has largely refused to address those issues, which is typical of marketing deals.
4) It's almost as important to concentrate on what hasn't been said. That's often where the traps are.

We've all been bamboozled by the promise of flashy graphics that haven't eventuated (Watch Dogs anyone?), we owe it to ourselves to be skeptical. We can celebrate when actual UE5 games turn up.
 

Snake29

RSI Employee of the Year
For what exactly ? What is the hardware issue of the XSX that needs damage control ? It has everything, but the amount of memory, perfect, in fact way better than anybody would believe a year ago. You won’t find variable clock rates, slow Ram e,t.c here, even its SSD is more than fine.

Have you seen the 2 already running the same game? I want to know more! The faster bandwidth is only with max 10GB, so we don’t know if the XSX ram performs better the PS5.

Yes, repeating yourself constantly how powerful it is, smells like damage control. Let’s wait for the games to come out first.
 
Say what you want about sony and sweeney, but this really is a strategic masterstroke from sony. A lot of games will be made using unreal engine and sony will ensure that their version has the edge of Microsoft’s - it may not be in the framerate, but there will be things sonys machine will have that series x versions won’t like no loading times and less expensive lighting techniques that don’t throttle the system. Series x is powerful, but with a more efficient machine and better tools, ps5 games will look better and load faster.
How did you come to the conclusion that the ps5 is more efficient ? From the variable clock speeds or from the slow ass Ram ?
UE5 games, when they arrive, will perform better on the XSX.
 
Have you seen the 2 already running the same game? I want to know more! The faster bandwidth is only with max 10GB, so we don’t know if the XSX ram performs better the PS5.

Yes, repeating yourself constantly how powerful it is, smells like damage control. Let’s wait for the games to come out first.
Oh don’t worry, DF will show everything.
 
How did you come to the conclusion that the ps5 is more efficient ? From the variable clock speeds or from the slow ass Ram ?
UE5 games, when they arrive, will perform better on the XSX.

It has a superior design with much better tools for top developers. Games will largely look better on ps5. Expect first party games to look significantly better than series x games. Series X is about brute force, but without the tools, theres no point. Sony knows that ray tracing is 5 years away, so have built a better, more efficient lighting system. Series x won’t have full path ray tracing on any games apart from ones that look like ps1 games such as minecraft.
 

Kagey K

Banned
It has a superior design with much better tools for top developers. Games will largely look better on ps5. Expect first party games to look significantly better than series x games. Series X is about brute force, but without the tools, theres no point. Sony knows that ray tracing is 5 years away, so have built a better, more efficient lighting system. Series x won’t have full path ray tracing on any games apart from ones that look like ps1 games such as minecraft.

Wow. If Miles Morales and Rachet and Klank are the best we can hope for, next gen is in serious trouble.
 
Wow. If Miles Morales and Rachet and Klank are the best we can hope for, next gen is in serious trouble.

Wait until we get gow 2, got2, tlou3 etc. Horizon 2 looks a generation apart. Ratchet 2 looks like the best looking platformer already. Miles morales hasn’t really shown proper gameplay, so just wait and see.
 

Kagey K

Banned
Wait until we get gow 2, got2, tlou3 etc. Horizon 2 looks a generation apart. Ratchet 2 looks like the best looking platformer already. Miles morales hasn’t really shown proper gameplay, so just wait and see.
Oh so we can wait and see for those games, but brute force everyone else’s?

Makes sense.
 
It has a superior design with much better tools for top developers. Games will largely look better on ps5. Expect first party games to look significantly better than series x games. Series X is about brute force, but without the tools, theres no point. Sony knows that ray tracing is 5 years away, so have built a better, more efficient lighting system. Series x won’t have full path ray tracing on any games apart from ones that look like ps1 games such as minecraft.
It has a superior design with much better tools for top developers. Games will largely look better on ps5. Expect first party games to look significantly better than series x games. Series X is about brute force, but without the tools, theres no point. Sony knows that ray tracing is 5 years away, so have built a better, more efficient lighting system. Series x won’t have full path ray tracing on any games apart from ones that look like ps1 games such as minecraft.
How do you know that it has better tools than a console from the biggest software company in the world ? How does a console with variable clock speeds have a superior design ? What do you know about the ps5 «lighting system» (whatever the hell that means, it is the first time that I have ever read about a lighting system exclusive to a console) .
 

Jon Neu

Banned
They bought a fraction of the company, they didn’t hand him 250 m to pocket. He literally has to trade 250M in value for it. Epic was also reported to have started trying to raise funds in June with a bunch of other companies that aren't Sony, after the demo. There's literally 0 evidence that the investment was so that Tim would lie for them. Many people are praising the PS5 for the same reasons as Tim. People are just butthurt because they want compliments for the Xbox or they are offended by his PC comment.

It was so weird watching Tim the past months praising the PS5 all the time while remaining completely silent about the XsX. People started to question if that his new shill behaviour wasn’t coming from a deal, and turns out it was.

Seems to me that are the Sony fans the ones butthurt because the world has found out that Tim’s words had an obvious agenda behind them.
 
Top Bottom