Also Canada and Mexico are on much higher ground now then they were originally back in the 90s when this was originally negotiated.
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Trump talks tough on NAFTA for eleven hours and then backs down.
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Also Canada and Mexico are on much higher ground now then they were originally back in the 90s when this was originally negotiated.
Abstrusity
Member
Fucking hell, thank whatever god, I don't care anymore.
Holy shit at risking millions of jobs as a goddamn bargaining chip.
Batshit insane.
There's little stopping the trade war from exploding. If negotiations fall through for whatever reason at all, we're fucked by increasingly escalating shows of economic force.
Holy shit at risking millions of jobs as a goddamn bargaining chip.
Batshit insane.
There's little stopping the trade war from exploding. If negotiations fall through for whatever reason at all, we're fucked by increasingly escalating shows of economic force.
Brawly Likes to Brawl
Member
I've lost count of many times this week alone he's taken an L
It's obvious to me since the North Korea Senate meeting was a big nothing burger that Trump is trying to simply distract the American people from his failures.
His base by next week should start getting antsy about the lemon they forced on all of us. It's about time more of them vocally expressed displeasure instead of whimpering in the shadows.
His base by next week should start getting antsy about the lemon they forced on all of us. It's about time more of them vocally expressed displeasure instead of whimpering in the shadows.
UberTag
Member
Only if they're the last ones in his ear.
Cow Mengde
Banned
You really underestimate how stupid these people are. I browsed the_donald out of curiosity, and these people are delusional. In their eyes, Trump's been doing an amazing job in the last 100 days.
Eh don't forget during the Syrian situation there actually was such a significant backlash the mods started banning long time members. That sub reddit will continue self destructing but the key issues Trump could fuck up on are very specific and narrow so who knows when Trump gets around to messing up in some of their minds again. I wouldn't want to waste time thining too much of supporters who regularly visit that forum.
SurprisedPikachu
Member
I have looked everywhere on the White House website and I cannot find this readout. If this was sent to the press, it would also be on the White House website. Can anyone link me to the readout on the White House website? I'm extremely hesitant to trust a random image on the internet these days.
godhandiscen
There are millions of whiny 5-year olds on Earth, and I AM THEIR KING.
Particle Physicist
between a quark and a baryon
http://money.cnn.com/2017/03/10/news/economy/mexico-us-nafta-ross-guajardo-press-conference/
Article from March 10
Sounds like things are moving along the set timeline
..... So what exactly did Trump accomplish today?
UberTag
Member
We talked about something other than Russia. That makes the day a win.
Every day we don't talk about Russia is a win.
shawnbuddy
Member
When you bring up NAFTA in casual conversation with your racist uncle in the future, he'll tell you "Trump pulled us out of 'at" and believe it. Because Trump followers only retain the initial aggressive news story, not the sheepish retreat. They live in a land where wishing makes it so.
I'm no Trump fan but some of you are going way overboard. In less then 12 hours from saying he want to pull out he had two other countries agree to renegotiate an agreement that wasn't up for negotiating. Given all the crap he has said before how do you think this is a loss? It's what he says he does all the time and he did it. Nothing is decided yet and so it can go either way.
Trudeau said he was open to discussing before this stunt.
Trump is trying to look like a big boy, poorly informed people will eat it up.
Operations
Member
Please inform yourself. In this thread alone it has been shown both Mexico and Canada have been open and in talks for negotation for months now.
Smiles and Cries
Member
this guy can't be trusted with anything and we have him running one of the most powerful countries in the world into the ground smh
Zeus Molecules
illegal immigrants are stealing our air
I suppose somebody explained to him how much Nafta benefits America and to STFU
Aaron Strife
Banned
Geopolitics aren't a joke. They aren't one sided deals. This man child is going to destroy actual political ties because hes a fucking moron put into office by dimwits who only understand rhyming slogans and wanted and "outsider". There's a reason why people in people are inside, because they make contacts and learn the job and get shit done.
Particle Physicist
between a quark and a baryon
Absolutely not true. I just posted an article about negotiations from March (even Mexico stating that they will be ready to negotiate in May), there are earlier ones that talk about how they were trying to figure out how to do the negotiations, whether to make them three way or have the US negotiate with each nation separately.
There is a difference between negotiations and pulling out. You can pull out without any negotiations. Its in Chapter 22 of the treaty.
There is no specific procedure in the treaty for renegotiation. Mexico has its own domestic requirements to have a 90 day period before any renegotiation.
Particle Physicist
between a quark and a baryon
Yes... and they have been in talks for a while now with Mexico stating that they will be able to fully negotiate in May. Not sure what your point is. Trumps antics today didn't bring them to the table. They were already at the fucking table.
The US also has a 90 day notice to congress that must be sent. Mexico started their 90 process before the US.
There is a difference between negotiation and termination.
Particle Physicist
between a quark and a baryon
Um.. okay?
Please give me a source on the 90 day notice to Congress for termination of a treaty.
There was an executive order drafted regarding withdrawal from NAFTA. The Peso dropped and the Mexican and Canadian leaders got on the phone with Trump.
Particle Physicist
between a quark and a baryon
How about Tump's own Wilbur Ross:
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news...-slow-approach-on-nafta-ross/article34644675/
Yes... and at the end of this Trump got absolutely nothing. Both countries are still willing to negotiate NAFTA just like before. What exactly did Trump gain? Sounds like the other countries won that battle.
That is a 90 day notice for the negotiation of trade treaties under the fast track authority granted to the President for the negotiation of trade deals.
It has nothing to do with termination of treaties. Negotiation and termination of treaties are two different things.
Here is the New York Times on how the markets and the governments reacted on the sudden news of a withdrawal from NAFTA:
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/04/26/us/politics/nafta-executive-order-trump.html
Particle Physicist
between a quark and a baryon
Holy fuck. No shit they are different. Trump threatened to terminate NAFTA today. After speaking with Mexico and Canada he decided against it and is now going to renegotiate NAFTA. People are saying that was his plan and he got Canada and Mexico to agree to a renegotiation of NAFTA with his antics today but they had already fucking agreed to a renegotiation prior to all this. In fact, Mexico had already started their renogtiation 90 day shit before the US did.
Please enlighten me here, what exactly did Trump accomplish today?
ssolitaire claimed that this call today was setup already and everything else was for show. I disagreed that the call was already setup, and New York Times even reports that the news prompted the calls.
Do you agree or disagree with my belief that the call was not otherwise on the schedule? I believe it is supported by the NYT article that say the news of the executive order prompted the call.
Show me where I ever mentioned that this is his plan to get them to agree to renegotiate.
Particle Physicist
between a quark and a baryon
I'm not ssolitaire. I have no idea if there was a scheduled call today or not. All I know is that Trump accomplished absolutely nothing today. He has yet to show these master negotiation skills and continues to act brashly.
I misread this. I thought you said 'negotiations' instead of termination since I was initially responding to this "There is no specific procedure in the treaty for renegotiation."
Still, you seem to not address any of what I was actually saying.
You began this conversation by replying to my claim that the call was not pre-scheduled.
There still isn't a procedure for renegotiation in the treaty. Trump could begin negotiations today. He needs to give Congress 90 days notice if he wants to do it under fast-track authority (filibuster-proof consent).
I never claimed he accomplished anything so I do not know why I need to address such a claim. I posted to address factual claims that I disagreed with.
Okay Belgian here, so I'm not really familiar with the specifics of the treaty, but as far as I know any treaty is renegotiable (see Brexit?). Still I think Trump made a win, in the sense that he appealed to his voters, but so do Nieto and Trudeau because 'they kept the US around the table'.
At the same time, I don't know what Nieto and Trudeau think of him, but given his failures so far I wouldn't mind renegotiating with him either. On top of that, treaty negotiations are not really something you pull of in a few months. If they stall enough, it wouldn't surprise me the negotiations would finish in the next term, which could perfectly be with another president.
All in all, I would think Nieto and Trudeau aren't afraid to get get the new deal to be the old deal or even more in favor for them;
At the same time, I don't know what Nieto and Trudeau think of him, but given his failures so far I wouldn't mind renegotiating with him either. On top of that, treaty negotiations are not really something you pull of in a few months. If they stall enough, it wouldn't surprise me the negotiations would finish in the next term, which could perfectly be with another president.
All in all, I would think Nieto and Trudeau aren't afraid to get get the new deal to be the old deal or even more in favor for them;
Particle Physicist
between a quark and a baryon
My initial post was pointing out that the timeline of renegotiation had not actually moved at all. You didn't even respond to that post. You responded to my post responding to someone stating that Trump master negotiated his way to have the countries agree to a renegotiation.
You need to address those claims because all of my posts in this thread are about exactly that. I have no idea what you are arguing otherwise. The only reason why I mentioned the 90 fastrack authority was to point out that Mexico started the process of renegotiating NAFTA in early February before the US even started the 90 fast track timeframe.
Cesare Borgia
Banned
I mean, nobody knows what he got because negotiations haven't begun. But it seems pretty clear this is what he always does: take an outrageous or threatening position and wait for the opposition to come to the table. It hasn't worked on most fronts (the wall, healthcare) but could work here. Mexico is in a very tough position.
"lol Trump" doesn't seem like the logical response here.
LookAtMeGo
Member
People seemed to forget about Russia for a few hours anyway.
If this is how the entirety of Trump's presidency is going to be, I think it's not going to be as bad as we thought:
Trump: I'm going to do (Incredibly stupid thing that would heavily affect millions of people for no good reason)
Literally everyone: You can't do that
Trump: Okay, I'll just think of (Another Incredibly stupid thing that would heavily affect millions of people for no good reason)
Rinse and repeat until 2020.
Trump: I'm going to do (Incredibly stupid thing that would heavily affect millions of people for no good reason)
Literally everyone: You can't do that
Trump: Okay, I'll just think of (Another Incredibly stupid thing that would heavily affect millions of people for no good reason)
Rinse and repeat until 2020.
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