ItWasMeantToBe19
Banned
So you are saying that the phrase "oh, he's a Packers fan" would only be said if it was meant to carry negative connotation? I don't think this is how people work at all.
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Leigh Alexander: "'Gamers' don't have to be your audience. 'Gamers' are over."
- Thread starter Gsak
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So you are saying that the phrase "oh, he's a Packers fan" would only be said if it was meant to carry negative connotation? I don't think this is how people work at all.
Articles like this will not advance was I feel is a worthy agenda of making the gaming industry more inclusive and stamping out the scumbags. Perhaps I am reading it incorrectly, but I get the feeling the author, due to a few despicable trolls, is ranting that the entire industry be torn down and remade to suite her tastes, and because of these despicable trolls anyone who does not share her utopian vision should be disregarded by content creators. That is neither tenable nor rationale.
That said, I am all for chastising, shaming, banning, etc., any of the trolls who are trying to maintain their ridiculous notion that games need to be protected from female intrusions. And when they go to the extremes seen today in response to the tropes article, prosecute the hell out of them. And maybe it's time that some of these companies should be putting their resources to use rooting them out and giving their info to the Feds for either prosecution or the scare of a lifetime. I can't really expect startups and indies to take that initiative due to resources, but the big players like Sony, MS, Acti, EA, Ubi, IGN, etc., a couple hundred thousand a year to help stamp out the scum shouldn't hurt their bottom line a bit. And I also think the companies will find that the pigs who may stop buying their games will be outnumbered by the new customers who now feel more comfortable immersing themselves in the increasingly connected overall gaming community.
That said, I am all for chastising, shaming, banning, etc., any of the trolls who are trying to maintain their ridiculous notion that games need to be protected from female intrusions. And when they go to the extremes seen today in response to the tropes article, prosecute the hell out of them. And maybe it's time that some of these companies should be putting their resources to use rooting them out and giving their info to the Feds for either prosecution or the scare of a lifetime. I can't really expect startups and indies to take that initiative due to resources, but the big players like Sony, MS, Acti, EA, Ubi, IGN, etc., a couple hundred thousand a year to help stamp out the scum shouldn't hurt their bottom line a bit. And I also think the companies will find that the pigs who may stop buying their games will be outnumbered by the new customers who now feel more comfortable immersing themselves in the increasingly connected overall gaming community.
Gsak
Member
If "Gamers" did not exist, then Leigh Alexander would not have a job. At least, not this kind of job.
Señor Coyote
Banned
What is it with gaming "journalists" these days and their obsession with trying to define the culture surrounding games rather than talking about the games themselves. What's even stranger is their obvious hatred towards the majority of the people that keep them employed ie "gamers"
Oh I've seen it constantly. You can't question the journalist about anything. Even if you're doing it respectful. The run to twitter and get their other friends and they all go on a rant without ever addressing the issue. It's that "I know better than you" attitude.
old manatee
Banned
I just want to know where the gd warp whistles are.
Maintenance
Member
Yeah, I thought that was strange too, but I can't deny that his tone was much better than hers.
UncleSporky
Member
There's a difference between someone who can be described as a gamer, logically, given their activities, and the person who would be described as a gamer by others.
Everyone is a walker, a breather, a computer user, a reader, an eater, a gamer, a sleeper.
People who play Angry Birds are totally gamers. Others are not going to call them that, though.
The average person sums up others with labels when those labels really define them, when that label represents the person more than other labels might. Typically due to excess.
59% of Americans play video games. Gaming is not inclusive.
80% of U.S. families did not buy or read a book last year. Books are inclusive.
Yup makes sense.
I think you are projecting your own personal experiences, cause I've had a very different one from you, clearly.
darkblade77
Member
I don't think I self-identify as a 'gamer'. The only time I've even seen the term used is occasionally during news programs when some video-game-thing is deemed mainstream attention-worthy, and a lot during E3 news cycle, and it's always rung like some sort of hollow classification since there's no better way to refer to everyone who plays games.
To me, it feels like the term as it's commonly used and the intended image behind it was a construct of the press to begin with, so I could care less if it gets retired.
To me, it feels like the term as it's commonly used and the intended image behind it was a construct of the press to begin with, so I could care less if it gets retired.
I don't think this really applies to everybody. For example, I don't care what others think of me.
And I don't use labels for myself.
There's a lot of terms that people have used for me and not one of them was 'Gamer'
Gsak
Member
That;s why I am not paying all that attention to Twitter. And in all honesty, people need to learn that Twitter is not their private messenger. I criticize people based on their actions. And in our case, what they write, blog, vlog, make videos about. If someone wants to address the public via their work, and build a bond of trust between creator and audience, then they should have the spine and deal with the consequences of their actions, good or not. In the end, their audience are the ones who provide their income. So, they should fucking respect it.
The audience, should oust any idiots who try and make the culture a worse place for all. But writers, must take care no to put everyone in the same "bucket" and just start attacking blindly.
I'm a "gamer." I'm also a happily married 29 year-old CPA. I'm absolutely disgusted by the shit women have to deal with, and I think we should always be looking for ways to marginalize these sociopaths.
I also don't think articles like these do anything but make the people on each side more mad.
I also don't think articles like these do anything but make the people on each side more mad.
UncleSporky
Member
Nope. Partly because it's not as strong a label, not as all-encompassing.
If I said someone was a fan of racing games, the assumption is not that this is all they spend their time doing.
If someone said "oh, he's a sports nut," then that would be more equivalent. The connotation is based on the company present, of course. If it's said among other sports nuts then they're meant to welcome them into the fold. It still means excess.
FlyingSaucer
Banned
Better, more noble and more beautiful than any cause: a desperate cause. Thanks you, Leigh Alexander.
Honestly, with how little it actually gets used, the amount of attention it gets by media and industry is funny. I mean if we are all being honest, I'm curious how much you ever speak the words gamer or other then talking about specific things, even type talk "gamer".
UncleSporky
Member
That's good, that means they don't think you play games excessively.
I also don't care what others think of me and don't apply labels to myself. Labels are dumb. People should be specific about their thoughts and feelings, rather than trying to sum themselves up with words that carry a lot of baggage they might not even be aware of.
Gsak
Member
Isn't it funny how the article mentioned that there "are no sides"?
Good on her for criticizing a group of people for a lack of skill in professionalism and social interactions!
That tweet takes me back. It's so funny because, like the article, that tweet was about punching back at the people who (she feels) are attacking her or those she cares about. Perfectly fair; that's human. But it will always seem hypocritical to me.
So a gamer is now a sports nut. -_-
Dude, there isn't a literal definition and people who consider themselves huge sports fans does not infer excess, it infers that is what they do with their free time. Excess infers to the detriment of a person, gamer doesnt mean that.
ActuallyHulk
Banned
Zombie James
Banned
Sad to see Arstechnia hopping on the hate train.
I don't know who Christina Sommers is, but she knows what's up.I found this to be surprisingly accurate.
It's very hypocritical. It shows that she bases her responses mostly off of emotion which can be good when it's focused. Most of the time from her it's just broad rage. Reading that article she's clearly attacking men. Seems to hate that they stand in line, go to events and midnight releases, but does acknowledge the fact that many women do the same thing.
She honestly should have held this "article" close to the chest. She didn't do herself or anyone and favors with this.
If you do the same thing over and over again, and getting the same results, you are either getting the results you want or you are insane. I think the media(not all the media, but I the people who drive headlines) likes to claim they want something, but since they are always doing the same thing, on the whole, I think they are getting what they want, controversy.
MisterHero
Super Member
They're lashing out at entire communities because they can't identify the specific perpetrators that send death threats and create hate campaigns.Señor Coyote;127535903 said:
All of this drama is happening because a few people decided to be assholes. A community doesn't have to foster them.
Darkmakaimura
Can You Imagine What SureAI Is Going To Do With Garfield?
Yup. I was alienated and made fun for everything but game, although.
Exactly. Best thing - so simple and true. Gonna find her tweet and retweet it.
I agree with her tweet, is she a journalist?
Paracelsus
Member
SolidSnakex
Member
Petrae
Member
There are, in fact, sides, counter to Ms. Alexander's claim. And we're all expected to take one, even if we don't wish to or even understand what the battle is about.
If you're not with, you're against. No abstaining.
It was much more fun when it was taking a side in the SNES versus Genesis/Mega Drive War. There's no fun in this. At all.
UncleSporky
Member
If everyone's so confident that the word "gamer" carries no baggage, I would challenge anyone to make an effort to tell others who don't know you're a gamer that you are, in fact, a gamer.
If you're hesitant to do so, I would guess it's because you're reluctant to allow this word to define you.
Note that calling yourself a gamer is fundamentally different from telling people you "play video games as a hobby," which has significantly less baggage.
The term gamer means nothing to me. I don’t care if you see me as a gamer or you identify yourself as a gamer. It can go away or people can start calling themselves something else, it really doesn't bother me and it won’t affect my enjoyment of video games at all. People are people, some are assholes and some aren't, its not rocket science that assholes exist everywhere and have numerous hobbies and tastes. You can call them what you want but they will always exist, you can't get rid of them. I would prefer it if professional "journalists" gave less attention to these assholes and to their peers and a little more to topics that actually matter to US. The attitude that the games media has taken lately really has started to bother me, they treat their fans as if they don’t matter and instead of engaging them in conversation about the articles they write, they get angry with anyone who holds a different opinion and lash out on places like twitter. Worse yet, this highly unprofessional behavior is applauded by their peers in the industry who then carry on that same behavior to their fans. Game journalists died with print in my opinion, now it all about clicks and attracting attention by being as annoying as possible.
A runner is someone who's dedicated to running. A cinephile (or "movie buff") is really into movies, and that interest may extend to the production side (cinematography, keeping up on particular directors, actors/actresses, industry news, etc.) An avid reader enjoys reading for pleasure, and does so often.
"Gamer" is no more loaded a term than any of those other descriptors, at least amongst the people I know. It just means you're someone who plays videogames regularly. The fact that some people associate the word with unpleasant stereotypes says more about them than it does about the people playing games, IMO. Then again, maybe I'm just lucky - a lot of the people in the crowd I run with actually play games, or their husbands/wives/SO's do, so nobody's trotting it out as a pejorative while smirking knowingly.
RockTurtle
Member
That's somewhat disappointing. ;(
Though, I am unaware what her actual views are. I am guessing we don't agree on some fronts.
Link?
Wait, so you want me to walk up to a random stranger and say, "I'm a gamer"? Or do you want me to go to people who know me, and say "I'm a gamer"? With the former, people would probably think I'm weird just randomly bringing that up(or just randomly going up to them and saying I'm a huge sports fan) and with no context, I dont know what they would think. As for the latter? They wouldn't care, cause they also play games, or they literally don't care. Now, if I walked up to someone and said I'm a huge fan of D&D I'd probably get a reaction(probably not much of one anymore, but still) that is closer to what you are talking about, but not gamer.
And in college? I don't know, I went to Michigan Tech was a gamer people knew I was a gamer, never was made fun of for it, except when I was late to class because I was finishing mario kart with a girlfriend or boyfriend.
I think it's good that you don't describe her as a gamer, because it means she has more than just one facet of her life. Labeling yourself a gamer, usually carries the connotation that you only do that.
If this is all you can say about someone when introducing them, I would think they have a temple to Brett Favre in the living room and would argue Aaron Rodgers godhood with a straight face. If you lead into introducing yourself as a gamer, as some do, the some who Leigh is talking about, then yea that is not at all the same as casually mentioning someone is a Packers fan, probably while talking about sports or football in general.
And again, if you have a problem with the definition of gamer that she is using, then you should do something about, which is stop saying that the minority doesn't represent you, because CliffyB will tell you it does. I think Leigh is asking the nigh on impossible, but we absolutely have to try to police our own better, through social pressures, that their attitude is not acceptable. The Anita thread where people were asking if she was faking it was met with some disbelief, but also some agreement, which is pretty fucking sad.
Northeastmonk
Gold Member
I think the article is talking more on the lines of PC and iOS gaming. Sure consoles have this, but do the games themselves change? They're still the game on the shelf at Walmart, Target, and GameStop. They still do what they've done, but with nicer graphics. I think there's this iOS generations that's coming around that play for seconds or minutes at a time.
I think the industry is trying to flesh itself out. Which is causing a lot of backlash because they're not really getting anything other than a person's personal opinion. Games are either good or they suck. There's going to be an angry audience no matter what. I also don't think the cheaper thrills people are getting from these games are doing anything but making money.
I don't see the major franchises just being picked up by random people. I see more of what the article is talking about with iOS games.
Your so called "gamer" is going to buy the games from major developers like Capcom, Konami, Square-Enix, and I don't see a threat anywhere else. Maybe when all our memories are erased and we're too old to play... that might be the day. I think people need to stop thinking in to the word "gamer" and just simply play the console. It's not hard. We're always going to have that Uncharted 2 commercial where they say "is this a movie". It's always been like that. People buy video games when they're considered "hot shit", but some of us so called "gamers" stick around. Just make up a new word.
I think the industry is trying to flesh itself out. Which is causing a lot of backlash because they're not really getting anything other than a person's personal opinion. Games are either good or they suck. There's going to be an angry audience no matter what. I also don't think the cheaper thrills people are getting from these games are doing anything but making money.
I don't see the major franchises just being picked up by random people. I see more of what the article is talking about with iOS games.
Your so called "gamer" is going to buy the games from major developers like Capcom, Konami, Square-Enix, and I don't see a threat anywhere else. Maybe when all our memories are erased and we're too old to play... that might be the day. I think people need to stop thinking in to the word "gamer" and just simply play the console. It's not hard. We're always going to have that Uncharted 2 commercial where they say "is this a movie". It's always been like that. People buy video games when they're considered "hot shit", but some of us so called "gamers" stick around. Just make up a new word.
Petrae
Member
I've always considered myself up be a "gamer". I've introduced myself that way in groups, most recently college classes that I'm in. I've become proud of the designation, because it most briefly describes my main interest, without the need to add extra words.
The "baggage" that came with the term used to be because it was associated with either kid culture or nerd culture. Now it comes with baggage because the press/media that covers video games says it is, and causes some others to agree.
Agent Unknown
Member
Some choice post article Tweets from the calm, rational Ms. Alexander whose sincere desire is for a more mature atmosphere in the gaming community. Ben Kuchera levels of arrogance and hypocrisy:
UpDownLeftRight
Banned
Modern culture as a whole in my opinion. It's hard to fart without having to justify yourself nowadays. As far as I'm concerned a gamer is somebody who plays games. No stigma attached since I grew up playing them and lead a happy life, if someone decides they need to call out people under some bullcrap prefix then I just remember that I'm pretty happy, and question if they truly are. I'm too busy doing what I've always been doing and enjoying the games to waste my time getting involved.
To go further though, I feel articles like this damage the gaming journalism industry. Having freelanced and eventually landing a role as EIC eventually once upon a time, this sort of article never crossed my mind and had anyone under my supervision posted anything similar I'd have had stern words or perhaps even shown them the door. I always had strict morales with what I did to an extent since I have always felt opinions have no place in journalism, ( I also understand why a lot of people disagree) just cold hard facts with a bit of personality. This type of journalism was the exact reason I gave up in the end as it feels like a losing battle constantly. I also feel no inclination to ever visit anything but forums for my analysis as a result.
And_Gignac
Member
I miss the days when gaming was a niche hobbie and could give you a sense of cultural belonging. :c
How does that work exactly? Is that just the gamer label that carries that connotation?
Maintenance
Member
Some choice post article Tweets from the calm, rational Ms. Alexander whose sincere desire is for a more mature atmosphere in the gaming community. Ben Kuchera levels of arrogance and hypocrisy:
Sigh, how can people defend this?
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