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School Told to Call Kids ‘Purple Penguins’ Because ‘Boys and Girls’ Is Not Inclusive

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F

Famassu

Member
IHaveIce said:
Or you say children/kids?

Or is that also insensitive because maybe some of the kids identify themselves as an eightyyear old?
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Kids in kindergarden and elementary schools (especially the first couple of years) often have different names to call their group as, much like scouts have names like Wolf Cubs and Woodchucks. It's good for children to have something fun that they are a part of.
 
Y

Yrael

Member
Ikael said:
Gender has indeed a hefty dose of social construct and fuzziness built into it, but sex does not, as far as I know. You can either have a penis, a vagina, or in some cases, you can be an hermaprodite and have both organs present, but that's pretty much it. Transgendered persons are either male or females that wants (well, need) to become members of the opposite sex, but are not nor want to be a "third sex", so to speak.
Click to expand...

The preferred term is intersex rather than hermaphrodite, and also includes people whose sex hormones, chromosomes, or internal reproductive anatomy differ:

In humans, biological sex may be determined by five factors present at birth:[11]

the number and type of sex chromosomes;
the type of gonads—ovaries or testicles;
the sex hormones,
the internal reproductive anatomy (such as the uterus in females), and
the external genitalia.
People whose five characteristics are not either all typically male or all typically female at birth are intersex. [12]

Intersex traits are not always apparent at birth; some babies may be born with ambiguous genitals, while others may have ambiguous internal organs (testes and ovaries). Others will not become aware that they are intersex—unless they receive genetic testing—because it does not manifest in their phenotype.
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Also, there are many cultures that recognise genders that lie outside of the classic binary. See: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Third_gender. Another term that people who fall outside the gender binary frequently use to describe themselves is "genderqueer."
 
D

DonasaurusRex

Online Ho Champ
...this all seems superfluous, they will soon be in middle school and their gender will manifest itself even more....they're growing into it day by day. This is like the ultimate denial of reality right there, an overwhelming percentage of those kids will grow and identify with a gender within the next 10 years , how is calling them either harming or excluding any of them? Just by saying those words, and that list is just a descent into madness, why stop there.

thats a bit much , id be a little pissed if i were the teacher , who in most states are there to "just teach" and nothing more , what if some parents want their kids to see and interact with adult males and females as role models on how to conduct themselves as young men or women?

inconsistent.
 
P

PaulloDEC

Member
The biggest issue I can see with this is that kids are little shits and will work out how to effectively game the system in no time flat.

Sounds good in theory, though. Not sure the classes all need amusing colour/animal nicknames when words like "everyone", "folks", "team", "everybody", etc exist though.
 
S

SmokyDave

Member
SquiddyCracker said:
Well, we can safely say that tumblr is full of shitpersons.
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How do we decide that though?

I mean, I can easily look at a trans-ethnic fictive otherkin with a cisspecies headmate and say 'you're full of shit', but why? Where do we draw the line when respecting identities? If the desire is to eradicate any concept of 'normal', then why are any lines drawn at all?

I think that's why I'd rather kids were allowed to perceive that there very much is a 'normal' but that deviating from that normal doesn't necessarily have to equate to being 'wrong'.
 
S

SquiddyCracker

Banned
SmokyDave said:
How do we decide that though?

I mean, I can easily look at a trans-ethnic fictive otherkin with a cisspecies headmate and say 'you're full of shit', but why? Where do we draw the line when respecting identities? If the desire is to eradicate any concept of 'normal', then why are any lines drawn at all?

I think that's why I'd rather kids were allowed to perceive that there very much is a 'normal' but that deviating from that normal doesn't necessarily have to equate to being 'wrong'.
Click to expand...

girl-please-o.gif
 
S

SquiddyCracker

Banned
SmokyDave said:
Am I right to assume you don't have an answer then?

It's cool, I don't either.
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Short answer: Alternative gender identities actually have a basis in our biology. There are no chimera humans at the moment, the moment they appear - I'll be more inclusive.

So no to furries, yes to mauve people.
 
C

Crocodile

Member
I get the sentiment behind this line of thought and I kind of appreciate it but I have to agree with others that this reeks of "colorblindness" and that sort of principle does more harm then good IMO. As an example, rather than trying to strike down any conversations using the words "boys" and "girls" it seems more important, more prudent and more applicable to the outside world to stress that sexes and genders are not defined or beholden to particular roles/interests/hobbies/lifestyles/etc. Recognize differences but celebrate them or stress the ways they shouldn't be different (gender roles) rather than pretend no differences exist.
 
M

mrklaw

MrArseFace
is there research that can put a number on how many people in the world may not fall under the standard binary concept of gender currently? While I'm all for inclusion, if that number is relatively low, then why the need to contort societal norms to fit? Surely society can be inclusive to minorities without necessarily having to become a homogeneous slush?
 
J

jim-jam bongs

Member
I'm really big on inclusion as a feminist and father of a future woman, but purple penguin sounds too much like a penis euphemism for my liking.
 
C

CyclopsRock

Member
SquiddyCracker said:
Short answer: Alternative gender identities actually have a basis in our biology. There are no chimera humans at the moment, the moment they appear - I'll be more inclusive.

So no to furries, yes to mauve people.
Click to expand...

Do you believe it's impossible to genuinely identify with something that isn't a man or a woman (biologically speaking) then?
 
S

SoundLad

Member
Maybe it's just where I'm from or the age I was brought up in (90s), but this seems really far fetched and doesn't make a lot of sense to me.
I mean, everyone is biologically either a boy or a girl, man or a woman. Transgender is such a small percentage of our population..why don't they just educate kids about transgender, homosexuality, etc. in a scientific way and let them know that it's normal?

Please don't ban in case I said anything offensive, no offence whatsoever meant.
 
S

SquiddyCracker

Banned
CyclopsRock said:
Do you believe it's impossible to genuinely identify with something that isn't a man or a woman (biologically speaking) then?
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What you identify with is only part of the equation, you can identify as anything.
I can identify myself as a star system, but I feel strongly that it would be insulting to individuals who are identifying with an identity as a result of underlying biological make-up.

Same goes for identifying with anything that isn't human.
 
C

CyclopsRock

Member
SquiddyCracker said:
What you identify with is only part of the equation, you can identify as anything.
I can identify myself as a star system, but I feel strongly that it would be insulting to individuals who are identifying with an identity as a result of underlying biological make-up.

Same goes for identifying with anything that isn't human.
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Why "insulting" if the belief is held genuinely? Is the underlying cause for that belief - be it biological or psychological - really such an important factor to you?
 
T

The Smoking Bun

Banned
SmokyDave said:
How do we decide that though?

I mean, I can easily look at a trans-ethnic fictive otherkin with a cisspecies headmate and say 'you're full of shit', but why? Where do we draw the line when respecting identities? If the desire is to eradicate any concept of 'normal', then why are any lines drawn at all?

I think that's why I'd rather kids were allowed to perceive that there very much is a 'normal' but that deviating from that normal doesn't necessarily have to equate to being 'wrong'.
Click to expand...

Perhaps instead of normal we should divide it into Common and Uncommon.
So that trans people fall under the uncommon banner and that's perfectly fine.
Kids should be told that while boys/girls is a thing, some people can have uncommon genders.

SquiddyCracker said:
What you identify with is only part of the equation, you can identify as anything.
I can identify myself as a star system, but I feel strongly that it would be insulting to individuals who are identifying with an identity as a result of underlying biological make-up.

Same goes for identifying with anything that isn't human.
Click to expand...

We choose to identify as one thing but the biological truth may be different. A human born with X and Y chromosomes is biologically male no matter how much he insists his thoughts are those of a female. That means there may be some kind of psychological issue that makes him think so. He now has two choices, either accept life as a biological male or work towards the absurdly expensive treatment. Btw, biological male doesn't mean chopping wood and watching NFL either, just means people are gonna call you a dude because you look like one.
 
R

RionaaM

Unconfirmed Member
I get that they're trying to be more inclusive, and that's a good thing, but this doesn't seem like the proper way to do it. Why not explain that there are actual biological differences between males and females, and then go on to teach them they should all be treated the same way, instead of trying to pretend those differences don't exist? I don't think genders are a bad thing, the problem is when they are used as basis for discrimination or exclusion.

And even if they need to stop using genders to create groups, why choose purple penguins? Why not make it based on the starter Pokemon they chose for the first time? (Charmander for life!)
 
T

The Smoking Bun

Banned
RionaaM said:
I get that they're trying to be more inclusive, and that's a good thing, but this doesn't seem like the proper way to do it. Why not explain that there are actual biological differences between males and females, and then go on to teach them they should all be treated the same way, instead of trying to pretend those differences don't exist? I don't think genders are a bad thing, the problem is when they are used as basis for discrimination or exclusion.

And even if they need to stop using genders to create groups, why choose purple penguins? Why not make it based on the starter Pokemon they chose for the first time? (Charmander for life!)
Click to expand...

Professor Oak: Are you a boy or a girl?
Trainer: Excuse me! I'm a cis-gender male otherkin who is Susan on Sundays!
 
A

AlexMogil

Member
SmokyDave said:
Meanwhile, on Tumblr:

"Genderqueer is a white term that promotes whiteness and colonization, genderweird is not and is inclusive of all backgrounds."
Click to expand...

I'm In actually a little surprised this school's new policy isn't getting called out for color privledge. What about the kids with synesthesia or color blindness? Maybe it is, I dunno. My cynicism is working overtime.

I used to think I was relatively progressive but maybe I'm not after all. Or maybe I'm realizing some of the adages of getting older. I'm trying at least.
 
B

BPoole

Member
This is so fucking absurd. Kids are told to relate themselves to colored animals instead of their natural gender?
 
B

braves01

Banned
Good, gendered places need to be eliminated entirely, but I fear this will only create new species-based social pressures.
 
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