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[Aquamarine]

Yeah I would expect fifa to be up there but from what I gather isn't it hard to get digital numbers?

It's extremely hard. No tracking agency is definitive. Every single agency is flawed and estimates a ton of gaps.

Some are more respected than others.

The NPD Group is another tracking agency that makes estimates of the digital market, for example.


SuperData Research is drop in the bucket. I wouldn't necessarily agree with everything they put out.

So let's avoid thread titles like "Digital console games made $263 million in January."


A more appropriate thread title would be "According to SuperData estimates, digital console games sold-through $263 million in January."

 

[Jomjom]

Well it still costs money to host the game for sale and bandwidth to send it.

Yeah but i can't imagine that it would be nearly as much as what gamestop or bb takes on each sale, not to even mention the price of printing discs, boxes, covers, shipping, insurance, etc. etc.

I remember reading some estimate that pubs see something like 20 bucks for a $60 game.

 

[Mr Moose]

Does that include PC?
Also Black Ops still up there wow. Yup cod is dead /s

Digital console games made $263M in January

No.

 

[Fisty]

ps4 HDD doesn't hold many games, you will have to delete some at least most people will and what if the service goes down and you cant download them ever again.

Your discs will be unreadable before the networks go down

 

[geordiemp]

Does this information totally throw a spanner in the many recent NPD software discussions ?

 

[Kayant]

Remember to be wary of SuperData's methodology.

A lot of their numbers are mostly projections, algorithms, and estimates...not hard data.


This isn't equivalent to data tracking like NPD or GfK.

Oh I thought otherwise because of this -

Q. What type of data do we have and where do we get it?
A:
Every month we collect the spending data of millions of unique paying online gamers directly from publishers and developers, totaling 50+ publishers and 500+ game titles.

http://www.superdataresearch.com/services/

 

[Puppet Shadow]

Does this information totally throw a spanner in the many recent NPD software discussions ?

As others have mentioned, these numbers are just estimates. They just look at numbers already released to the pubic, and extrapolate sales from them. It's no more accurate then many Gaffers guesses in NPD threads. From their site (they are hiring for an intern atm):

Responsibilities

Research public data to create audience and revenue estimates for digital game titles.
Use data to identify and write about key industry trends.
Perform qualitative research to find support for quantitative findings.
Do a monthly presentation on industry findings and insights to the entire company.
Support the Research Team by assisting in research and report writing.

Pretty much what we do here.

 

[texhnolyze]

So, I dig into the actual source, and found this.

http://www.superdataresearch.com/blog/top-10-digital-console-games/

They actually didn't count other platform (Nintendo) at all, it seems.

 

[Tobor]

ps4 HDD doesn't hold many games, you will have to delete some at least most people will and what if the service goes down and you cant download them ever again.

I'll have upgraded my hard drive and won't have to delete anything.

Anyway, when your hard drive dies you'll have a stack of unpatchable, in a lot of cases unplayable, discs.

Personally, this doesn't bother me anyway. If I really want to play an old game, I'll figure it out.

 

[m@cross]

Yeah but i can't imagine that it would be nearly as much as what gamestop or bb takes on each sale, not to even mention the price of printing discs, boxes, covers, shipping, insurance, etc. etc.

I remember reading some estimate that pubs see something like 20 bucks for a $60 game.

Yes, I'd think the publisher gets more profit this way for sure. Though I am sure Sony gets their pound of flesh instead of Gamestop.

 

[Chobel]

http://www.superdataresearch.com/blog/top-10-digital-console-games/

US accounts for half the revenue of top 10 digital console games

The US remains a particularly important market for the console platform, as entries even into large gaming markets like China have had little impact on the distribution of console game sales. New generation games like Dying Light had 81% of its digital sales coming from America

That's really surprising for Dying Light, as the game can be only purchased digitally in the European markets.

 

[Usobuko]

The number is quite staggering, Perhaps I think I had underestimated digital market in console all these while.

 

[Hiko]

yeah true but discs will always play on thier respective consoles. with digital content the store could go down and you could lose everything. so it's much mroe risky.

I don't know how you are calculating risk when you literally have no data. The scenario you proposed has never even happened.

Digital game also always work on their original platforms. Unless you manually delete them, they will always be there. Even if your hard drive crashed, you just re-download them.

 

[outunderthestars]

yeah true but discs will always play on thier respective consoles. with digital content the store could go down and you could lose everything. so it's much mroe risky.

Not if the disc begins to rot. Or you step on it, or lose it......

 

[John Harker]

What's the methodology?

Curious because at a cursory glance, there's a lot of data seemingly missing

 

[Aquamarine]

Oh I thought otherwise because of this -



http://www.superdataresearch.com/services/

Be careful, now.

SuperData Research is trying to sell you their data on their website. Clearly they're going to paint themselves in the best possible light.

But they're well known for providing...estimates. Nothing more...just estimates. They're trying to fill a niche. They are by no means definitive, and they have lots of gaps in their data.


Nintendo, Microsoft, and Sony do not provide them with any data, I will tell you that right now.

They go around to publishers and beg for data. If you know anything about that strategy, it's usually quite unsuccessful.

So SuperData's sources are a mix of publicly available tidbits through financial reports and developer PR, a couple of publishers who actually give them data, and a TON of extrapolation to fill in the gaps.

 

[BKK]

Oh I thought otherwise because of this -



http://www.superdataresearch.com/services/

Also;

SuperData provides relevant market data and insight on digital games and playable media

Founded by veteran games industry researchers, SuperData is the leading provider of market intelligence covering the market for free-to-play gaming, digital console, mobile, PC downloadable, streaming media and eSports.
Monthly analyses and industry reports using digital point-of-sale data

Using digital point-of-sale data received from publishers, developers and payment service providers, we base our analyses on the monthly spending of 37 million paying online gamers, worldwide. This makes us the only research provider that offers insight into the current generation of interactive entertainment using transaction-level data.
Understand what people play, connect to and spend on

Our research combines transaction-level data with qualitative consumer insight. Our leadership team has experience spanning across major research firms, including NPD, Nielsen, DFC Intelligence, Comscore, Experian, Jupiter and Forrester. We combine a data-driven research approach with qualitative insights to help game companies understand what motivates digital game consumers.
A next gen approach for next gen entertainment

Our customer base includes legacy publishers, digital-only publishers, media companies and industry service providers. We help identify new market opportunities, assess their competitive environment and figure out what drives the success of industry leaders.

So, I dig into the actual source, and found this.



They actually didn't count other platform (Nintendo) at all, it seems.

I don't think any of the top 10 are available on Nintendo consoles.

 

[m@cross]

I don't know how you are calculating risk when you literally have no data. The scenario you proposed has never even happened.

Digital game also always work on their original platforms. Unless you manually delete them, they will always be there. Even if your hard drive crashed, you just re-download them.

I can tell you as a fact that I have digital content on my PS3 that was no longer downloadable after I upgraded the HD in it. If your HD fails (not uncommon in any device with moving parts and susceptibility to magnetic forces) you can probably get most of your content back, but what if you don't have internet anymore or the system is now two generations old? You honestly think that all the digital PS3 games will be still downloadable for 5, 10 15 years from now?

That disc can break, get scratched, etc. But as long as you take reasonable care with it, it will last a lot longer than any HD.

 

[AmuroChan]

ps4 HDD doesn't hold many games, you will have to delete some at least most people will and what if the service goes down and you cant download them ever again.

Ever again? That would mean PSN is down forever, meaning that's probably the end of PlayStation altogether.

 

[truth411]

I'll have upgraded my hard drive and won't have to delete anything.

Anyway, when your hard drive dies you'll have a stack of unpatchable, in a lot of cases unplayable, discs.

Personally, this doesn't bother me anyway. If I really want to play an old game, I'll figure it out.

??? If your system dies, you have the physical disc to play on any console, you can play offline, you don't need a patch to play disc games. If all your games are on the hdd and you console dies, your screwed when they take the servers down.

The pros and cons to being all digital.

 

[LiquidMetal14]

The Plantation4 putting in that work.

 

[Aquamarine]

Also;

I don't think any of the top 10 are available on Nintendo consoles.

"Companies we work with" is a very loose definition.

That could mean anything from SuperData Research clients to one-time partners 7 years ago.

Just because they list those companies there, doesn't mean all of those companies give SuperData Research digital sales data on a regular basis.

Again...we're on their promotional website where they're trying to sell you on their data. Vague statements have to be closely scrutinised.

 

[AmuroChan]

??? If your system dies, you have the physical disc to play on any console, you can play offline, you don't need a patch to play disc games. If all your games are on the hdd and you console dies, your screwed when they take the servers down.

The pros and cons to being all digital.

Take what servers down? You'll always be able to download your games as long as PSN and XBL exist. If you're talking about online multiplayer servers, then that affects both digital and disc-based games.

 

[Kayant]

Be careful, now.

SuperData Research is trying to sell you their data on their website. Clearly they're going to paint themselves in the best possible light.

But they're well known for providing...estimates. Nothing more...just estimates. They're trying to fill a niche. They are by no means definitive, and they have lots of gaps in their data.


Nintendo, Microsoft, and Sony do not provide them with any data, I will tell you that right now.

They go around to publishers and beg for data. If you know anything about that strategy, it's usually quite unsuccessful.

So SuperData's sources are a mix of publicly available tidbits through financial reports and developer PR, a couple of publishers who actually give them data, and a TON of extrapolation to fill in the gaps.

Looool

Also;

I don't think any of the top 10 are available on Nintendo consoles.

Thanks for the heads up really I just thought their estimates would be fairly quite accurate because of that but yh thinking about it more as you both highlighted they are missing quite a bit of the market.

 

[RedAssedApe]

kind of funny considering xbone was planned as the digital console. psn is the new xbla

 

[jcm]

What's the methodology?

Curious because at a cursory glance, there's a lot of data seemingly missing

Sounds like they do Nielsen-style end user sampling.

Data

Q: What type of data do we have and where do we get it?
A: Every month we collect the spending data of millions of unique paying online gamers directly from publishers and developers, totaling 50+ publishers and 500+ game titles.

 

[luckygodzilla]

So, I dig into the actual source, and found this.



They actually didn't count other platform (Nintendo) at all, it seems.

Well considering that Nintendo's flagship console has less internal memory than a lot of phones these days, that's somewhat understandable.

Anyways, been loving going all digital on my PS4. Definitely helps having my entire library on my console whenever i lug it around.

 

[Vilix]

kind of funny considering xbone was planned as the digital console. psn is the new xbla

Still no where as good, unfortunately.

 

[3rdamention]

unless there is some guarantee all this digital content will be playable on ps5 it's such a risk buying it.

PS4s are suddenly going to stop working when PS5 is released???


EDIT, oh I see, you're saying they are going to simply remove PS4 digital titles when PS5 comes out? Loll, like they did with PS3 titles when PS4 came out?? It's not too risky man...

 

[truth411]

Take what servers down? You'll always be able to download your games as long as PSN and XBL exist. If you're talking about online multiplayer servers, then that affects both digital and disc-based games.

Hmmm so download list and patches will be there forever? I have to imagine when say PS5 is out for a year or so support for anything involving the PS3 would be gone. Just an example I have a lot of digital content on my PS3.

Edit: I guess similar to MS killed online support for the original Xbox. Can the original Xbox connect to Xbox live?

 

[Aquamarine]

Sounds like they do Nielsen-style end user sampling.

Data

Q: What type of data do we have and where do we get it?
A: Every month we collect the spending data of millions of unique paying online gamers directly from publishers and developers, totaling 50+ publishers and 500+ game titles.

Note, that refers to all of SuperData Research.

So the "50+ publishers" they have data from, 45 of those might be small mobile publishers, and only 5 could be publishers of actual digital console games.

That's my problem with their website. Everything is so vague. They need a clear, detailed methodology showing us exactly where their data comes from, otherwise it's really hard to inherently trust their data.

 

[Kayant]

"Companies we work with" is a very loose definition.

That could mean anything from SuperData Research clients to one-time partners 7 years ago.

Just because they list those companies there, doesn't mean all of those companies give SuperData Research digital sales data on a regular basis.

Again...we're on their promotional website where they're trying to sell you on their data. Vague statements have to be closely scrutinised.

Reminds me of this from Jan npd thread iirc

 

[Hiko]

I can tell you as a fact that I have digital content on my PS3 that was no longer downloadable after I upgraded the HD in it. If your HD fails (not uncommon in any device with moving parts and susceptibility to magnetic forces) you can probably get most of your content back, but what if you don't have internet anymore or the system is now two generations old? You honestly think that all the digital PS3 games will be still downloadable for 5, 10 15 years from now?

That disc can break, get scratched, etc. But as long as you take reasonable care with it, it will last a lot longer than any HD.

You can re-download anything you want. I have no idea what you're talking about. Any examples?

Ok, you so lost your internet at the exact moment your HDD crashed. I think you will get internet up and running again at some point as well as a new HDD. But you would not be better off even if your games were on disc. They still need patch data. Which requires you to have a functioning HDD and working internet to download. So physical has no advantage here. This is the just the way games work nowadays.

As for your last point, my response would be that I'm not going to care about 5+ year old games. If I'm still into games, I will be playing new ones. So you'll say that physical games will still work by then (which actually isn't certain since games require patch updates as I've said above) and that's why they're better than digital. But in my book, that's a pretty worthless win for physical games. I have a bunch of ps3 games that are several years old. I don't play them anymore and have no intention to. I have even older ps2 games that I literally have no desire to ever play. Yeah, all those games continue to "exist" and will continue to exist as long as I don't get rid of them. But so what? I've moved on and so has everyone else. Their existence to me is worthless. They're just plastic wasting space.

 

[Aquamarine]

Reminds me of this from Jan npd thread iirc

I know, right? Haha.

If anyone doesn't get the reference...this picture that Kayant links is from VG Chartz trying to justify their $20,000 a year professional services.

 

[RoboPlato]

I'm always really surprised whenever I find out digital purchases are bigger on Playstation platforms. I wouldn't have ever expected that.

 

[ALLseeingEYE]

This is some interesting stuff. 31 million from GTA separates to about 530, 000 copies at $60 a piece. Of course, GTA has space bux, so a big chunk of that revenue could be coming from that. If the 1,162,000 copies sold at retain I saw listed on a certain (not really that reliable) site are even close to true numbers, that is an interesting spread between retail and digital revenue. If anything, this suggests that publishers could be doing a lot better than I initially thought with regards to digital.

 

[BKK]

"Companies we work with" is a very loose definition.

That could mean anything from SuperData Research clients to one-time partners 7 years ago.

Just because they list those companies there, doesn't mean all of those companies give SuperData Research digital sales data on a regular basis.

Again...we're on their promotional website where they're trying to sell you on their data. Vague statements have to be closely scrutinised.

I never suggested that it meant anything.

 

[Aquamarine]

I never suggested that it meant anything.

I know, silly.

Not every reply is an attack...I was piggybacking off of your link to explain it further.


You're quite an intelligent poster. Clearly you would never fall prey to vague promotional fluff like that.

 

[Hiko]

??? If your system dies, you have the physical disc to play on any console, you can play offline, you don't need a patch to play disc games. If all your games are on the hdd and you console dies, your screwed when they take the servers down.

The pros and cons to being all digital.

Digital games can be played offline.

Disc games need the same exact patches as their digital counterparts. I have no idea why you think otherwise.

When are they going to take the servers down and why am I screwed? In the event that all Playstation business operations are shut down tomorrow, how am I better off with ps4 game discs over ps4 digital games? Everything is worthless at that point.

 

[Oersted]

How many of their partners are even on consoles?

Well considering that Nintendo's flagship console has less internal memory than a lot of phones these days, that's somewhat understandable.

This argument (?) doesn't make any lick of sense.

 

[truth411]

You can re-download anything you want. I have no idea what you're talking about. Any examples?

Ok, you so lost your internet at the exact moment your HDD crashed. I think you will get internet up and running again at some point as well as a new HDD. But you would not be better off even if your games were on disc. They still need patch data. Which requires you to have a functioning HDD and working internet to download. So physical has no advantage here. This is the just the way games work nowadays.

As for your last point, my response would be that I'm not going to care about 5+ year old games. If I'm still into games, I will be playing new ones. So you'll say that physical games will still work by then (which actually isn't certain since games require patch updates as I've said above) and that's why they're better than digital. But in my book, that's a pretty worthless win for physical games. I have a bunch of ps3 games that are several years old. I don't play them anymore and have no intention to. I have even older ps2 games that I literally have no desire to ever play. Yeah, all those games continue to "exist" and will continue to exist as long as I don't get rid of them. But so what? I've moved on and so has everyone else. Their existence to me is worthless. They're just plastic wasting space.

That's not true, you don't need a patch to play disc games. Especially if you don't have internet. I think that's where the misunderstanding is.

Edit: Also don't assume everyone should have the same taste as you, I still play SMB3 and other classical Nintendo Games.

 

[keyserbjj]

Battlefield 4 that high up the list still is impressive.

PS4 had the game plus premium for like 23$. I was able to get a few friends late to the PS4 to buy it at that price.

 

[GnawtyDog]

Still no where as good, unfortunately.

Criteria for that being downtime I assume. There is nothing else of substance to argue Xbl is better at. Even at that the difference is not as substantial.
------------------------------------

Solid numbers. Not surprised the way it's set up on next-gen consoles. At least on PS4...very easy to buy in.

 

[KillerMan91]

I'm always really surprised whenever I find out digital purchases are bigger on Playstation platforms. I wouldn't have ever expected that.

PS4 has big lead over Xbone worldwide and last gen consoles are dying. it's not really that surprising.

 

[family_guy]

??? If your system dies, you have the physical disc to play on any console, you can play offline, you don't need a patch to play disc games. If all your games are on the hdd and you console dies, your screwed when they take the servers down.

The pros and cons to being all digital.

Many games these days ship in a broken state so yes you can play without patches, but you'd be playing the worst version of your games. I like gaming on PS4 more than PC, but I'm pretty much switching to PS4 exclusive purchases only and the rest on PC. At least if something happens I can probably find a patched version of my PC games somewhere on the internet.

 

[m@cross]

You can re-download anything you want. I have no idea what you're talking about. Any examples?

Ok, you so lost your internet at the exact moment your HDD crashed. I think you will get internet up and running again at some point as well as a new HDD. But you would not be better off even if your games were on disc. They still need patch data. Which requires you to have a functioning HDD and working internet to download. So physical has no advantage here. This is the just the way games work nowadays.

As for your last point, my response would be that I'm not going to care about 5+ year old games. If I'm still into games, I will be playing new ones. So you'll say that physical games will still work by then (which actually isn't certain since games require patch updates as I've said above) and that's why they're better than digital. But in my book, that's a pretty worthless win for physical games. I have a bunch of ps3 games that are several years old. I don't play them anymore and have no intention to. I have even older ps2 games that I literally have no desire to ever play. Yeah, all those games continue to "exist" and will continue to exist as long as I don't get rid of them. But so what? I've moved on and so has everyone else. Their existence to me is worthless. They're just plastic wasting space.

I have a ton of games on my download list for PS3, I don't recall the title, but I do recall at least 1, possibly more games, that I had listed but would not download when I tired to get them back. They where not major games so I didn't follow up.

In addition I have heard others say the same on podcasts such as psnation I believe.

Or simply look at some of the examples posted here http://www.reddit.com/r/PlayStation...i_downloaded_a_game_but_deleted_it_off_of_my/

Now if you don't care if the games work after 5 years, that is your choice, but for some people they still play Nintendo and Sega games, so old games have definite value.

Yes, you may not be able to get that patch any more, but the majority of games are very playable even without patches.

 

[Steel]

Well until your console dies and the online store no longer has one or more of your games available for download onto the replacement console... but mostly forevermore : )

And your physical discs last until they get scratched and break. Hell, I've had lots of instances where my cartridge and disc based games have become unreadable, but absolutely zero instances where I've lost a digital game.

Well it still costs money to host the game for sale and bandwidth to send it.

You really don't seem to like digital. That point was kinda pitiful. First at this point every single solitary game for PS4 has a digital version, so the hosting cost is irrelevant. I also seriously hope you don't actually think beaming a game over the internet in any way shape or form compares to the cost of actually burning a disc, packing it and shipping it.

 

[AmuroChan]

That's not true, you don't need a patch to play disc games. Especially if you don't have internet. I think that's where the misunderstanding is.

That's not true either. There are absolutely mandatory patches for disc based games as well that render the game useless unless you install the update.

 

[Hiko]

That's not true, you don't need a patch to play disc games. Especially if you don't have internet. I think that's where the misunderstanding is.

Yes...you do.

If I have a game on disc and the developer pushes a patch, I need internet to download it. I can't play until I download it. And if there are parts of the game I can still access without the latest patch, I can do the same if it were digital.

And I'm not assuming everyone has the same taste as me. I know some people play really old games. But if the argument in favor of physical is that "in 10 years time you are 1% more likely to have access to your physical games than your digital games", that's a pretty lame argument.

 

[truth411]

That's not true either. There are absolutely mandatory patches for disc based games as well that render the game useless unless you install the update.

Ok, give me an example of a game you are unable to play unless you have an internet connection on the PS4.

Edit: one should be able to play single player just fine.