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DRIVECLUB |OT2| You Can't Rush Evolution

B

bananafactory

Banned
DHC-Shannow said:
2 months is an exaggeration, it was working but patchy after a week and has been improving all the time. From the outside the issue seemed to be more server capacity estimates rather than inherent problems with the code. I wouldn't wish for anyone to lose their jobs over this, like you said no one died over this mistake. They ran tests that appeared to confirm everything was ok but things didn't pan out that way. I really don't think the people responsible for this would make the same mistakes again - people live and learn. The saying where I work is if you've never made a mistake then you've never done anything.

Yes it was a high profile expensive mistake but I think they've suffered enough.
Click to expand...

I disagree, I think if it was as simple as server capacity and simply throwing more servers at the problem the PS+ version would be out by now.

My suspicion all along is that there was a fundamental problem in the coding logic and how the networking is handled, either client side or server side and that they are basically recoding the entire thing. It's the only thing I can think of that would explain the silence and amount of time required.
 
N

nib95

Banned
DHC-Shannow said:
2 months is an exaggeration, it was working but patchy after a week and has been improving all the time. From the outside the issue seemed to be more server capacity estimates rather than inherent problems with the code. I wouldn't wish for anyone to lose their jobs over this, like you said no one died over this mistake. They ran tests that appeared to confirm everything was ok but things didn't pan out that way. I really don't think the people responsible for this would make the same mistakes again - people live and learn. The saying where I work is if you've never made a mistake then you've never done anything.

Yes it was a high profile expensive mistake but I think they've suffered enough.
Click to expand...

They've also gone out of their way to rectify the woes to paying customers, with a constant flurry of updates introducing new features and modes, free tracks, cars, events etc. The after support for this game has been nothing short of incredible. Often times content, changes and tweaks being added based on our very own recommendations and requests.
 
I

IKizzLE

Member
DHC-Shannow said:
2 months is an exaggeration, it was working but patchy after a week and has been improving all the time. From the outside the issue seemed to be more server capacity estimates rather than inherent problems with the code. I wouldn't wish for anyone to lose their jobs over this, like you said no one died over this mistake. They ran tests that appeared to confirm everything was ok but things didn't pan out that way. I really don't think the people responsible for this would make the same mistakes again - people live and learn. The saying where I work is if you've never made a mistake then you've never done anything.

Yes it was a high profile expensive mistake but I think they've suffered enough.
Click to expand...

I should rephrase: I don't hope people lose their jobs, I hope that Evo/Sony do what's necessary to ensure that the next game out of Evo doesn't retread the same mistakes. If that involved firing a couple of people, so be it.

And in no way was this a server capacity issue. I mean really? They couldn't increase the server capacity in 6 months to accomodate 1 million people? Didn't GT5, made by another company owned by Sony sell 10 million copies and had functional online? We will never know the EXACT reason why the game launched without a functioning online component, but we can all safely assume it wasn't because of server capacity.
 
D

DHC-Shannow

Member
IKizzLE said:
I should rephrase: I don't hope people lose their jobs, I hope that Evo/Sony do what's necessary to ensure that the next game out of Evo doesn't retread the same mistakes. If that involved firing a couple of people, so be it.

And in no way was this a server capacity issue. I mean really? They couldn't increase the server capacity in 6 months to accomodate 1 million people? Didn't GT5, made by another company owned by Sony sell 10 million copies and had functional online? We will never know the EXACT reason why the game launched without a functioning online component, but we can all safely assume it wasn't because of server capacity.
Click to expand...

I don't think it's that easily discounted - it all depends on how far out the original estimate was. If your server fees are double the estimated amount every week how long can you keep them running before you start losing a lot of money? And I'd say the estimate was probably way further out than that. Remember we only pay once for this game yet expect the online to work for years. It's not just the online that uses the servers but the club that the game is named after - they could've blown their server budget massively in no time and been left losing money for ages. The code had to be modified to lower that heavy server load to make the game viable to run.

All my speculation of course.
 
V

VanWinkle

Member
I wish the game would have launched in the current state it's in, features and all. I feel like it would have reviewed way better and we could have got the PS+ version out of the gate and hopefully got a lot more sales. It's just a shame with the way development works. You have to get you game out at some point, and DC had already been delayed about a year, so what came out at launch was fairly barebones, and that's without mentioning the server issues.

I think that the game was not in an acceptable state when it launched, and that's not just talking about the online functionality not working. Right now it's exactly what it should have been at the start.
 
I

IKizzLE

Member
DHC-Shannow said:
I don't think it's that easily discounted - it all depends on how far out the original estimate was. If your server fees are double the estimated amount every week how long can you keep them running before you start losing a lot of money? And I'd say the estimate was probably way further out than that. Remember we only pay once for this game yet expect the online to work for years. It's not just the online that uses the servers but the club that the game is named after - they could've blown their server budget massively in no time and been left losing money for ages. The code had to be modified to lower that heavy server load to make the game viable to run.

All my speculation of course.
Click to expand...
Yea I feel you, but then that would be serious mismanagement by Sony. Their intent was to effectively give a part of this game out for free. They should've budgeted the entire ps plus user base, and had their servers according to that number, since paid users and ps plus users Would be using the same servers. Surely online gaming, server capacity, etc arent new since they've been doing online gaming for over a decade.

But whatever happened, their definitely should be consequences on their end. We shouldn't be giving any studio in 2015 easy passes and saying "It was just a slight mistake, give them another shot", because that mentality is the same reason why we had so many broken games released last year. We shouldn't be the ones to suffer; wanting a fully functioning working 100% complete game at launch shouldn't be seen as entitlement. And it must suck to be at EVO, knowing that you made an amazing game that had its image dragged through the mud because you were unable to execute on your network infrastructure.
 
farmerboy

farmerboy

Member
Got to call a spade a spade. Online is still very ordinary at times, I play this a lot with a IRL friend and we find that when in a session it performs worse than when alone.

The other night we spent an entire 15min trying to get in a game together, but all was forgiven when we got on with a bunch of cool randoms, Caterhams on Tamil Nadu and had the most spectacular race. Four of us crossed the line within .75 of a sec and not a bump between us.

Can't wait till its perfect with private lobbies. Hopefully we can set up a few races together.
 
R

R_thanatos

Member
Online still isn't spotless, but it work great 98% of the time.

Getting one disconnect at worst in 2,3+ hours of play .

I haven't seen a totally spotless online experience from my POV even last gen so for me it's freaking fine.
 
L

Lunar FC

Member
R_thanatos said:
Online still isn't spotless, but it work great 98% of the time.

Getting one disconnect at worst in 2,3+ hours of play .

I haven't seen a totally spotless online experience from my POV even last gen so for me it's freaking fine.
Click to expand...

The last three times I tried to play online (these were around 2 weeks ago) I couldn't connect to any lobbies.
 
S

Shaneus

Member
F-Pina said:
This is totally off-topic but always found it cool.
I think in GT1 / 2 days they used just a blurred texture with transparency that simulated the motion blur of the rims. It was an awesome touch.
Click to expand...
Same goes for PGR. What I loved about those games (particularly the intros) are that they used 100% in-game assets and rendering. You can see in the intro for PGR4 the blurred wheel effect and while it's a little jarring, I think it still works well.

I just love excuses for posting the intro and Macau videos whenever I can ;) I hope to do a PGR4-inspired fan video (complete with the song used in PGR4, Shadow by The Prodigy) but no idea when I'll get the time. But with replays, hopefully not too far along! Just need them to implement slow-mo and I'll be set.

bananafactory said:
Hope the rumour of layoffs at Evo isn't true :(
Click to expand...
Shit :( Is there a thread for it?
All the best for the people at Evo, whether they've been let go or are staying on. Be proud of the game you made, it's beyond brilliant.
 
K

krioto

Member
I'm glad that the Ferrari 599 is now available offline - love driving that car - it's not the fastest hyper, but it sounds so good and handles superbly.

I'm a bit disgusted at the crowing in the other thread regarding possible lay-offs at Evolution - same faces with the same shit seen in every DC thread.
 
D

DHC-Shannow

Member
krioto said:
I'm glad that the Ferrari 599 is now available offline - love driving that car - it's not the fastest hyper, but it sounds so good and handles superbly.

I'm a bit disgusted at the crowing in the other thread regarding possible lay-offs at Evolution - same faces with the same shit seen in every DC thread.
Click to expand...

Yeah I must admit it pissed me off reading all that shit. The system wars bullshit really brings some bile to the surface.
 
A

Apeboy

Member
Ranger X said:
This game really likes to put effects in our face just "because" and to show off. I know its recognised for its graphics but this is not the only detail where they are going offroad (lol).

Have you also noticed how you are blinded for like 3 full seconds at the exit or EVERY tunnel REGARDLESS where the sun is or time of day (only night is spared). This is completely unrealistic and ridiculous. I exited countless tunnels in my life and never been blinded like that. Its like a Final Fantasy summon or something there. Bahamut pitching a stupid huge beam of HDR....
Click to expand...

So much this.

Redneck "rubbin' is racin' y'all" AI, tunnels, slow-ass wipers, all too convenient bumps and sun glare takes so much away from the game. I'm at level 40 with a season pass and each time I play I'm bummed Evo went this route. Maybe if it was once in awhile but having it so overdone is just so cheesy and contrived. Even the funniest joke gets old after awhile.
 
dreamstation

dreamstation

Member
Anyone else have problems with their drift scores or times not recording in challenges if they restart too quickly? Often if I know my time or score is bad I will quickly click through the post challenge screens where fame, etc is awarded so I can quickly get back in to try again but often my times and scores aren't recording. I hate having to sit on the menus waiting for it to update!
 
J

Juz

Member
Ame said:
Driveclub a la Moon Over The Castle.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=573f23OCZN8

Used a combo of gameplay, photo mode and replays.
Click to expand...
Good stuff!

JPx16nX.gif
 
1

#1 defender

Member
Is there a good guide for how to maximize drift points? I can beat all the drift events in the Tours without much effort, but when i try my hands at some of the community challenges i'm stumped. I can see that people are still abusing the old tricks, but even with that the points difference in some corners can be so massive that it's hard for me to comprehend, like in this rainy night BMW M4 drift challenge on Tamil Nadu 01. The guy in first place gets around 4500 points in the second drift zone, whereas i can do half of that at best, no matter how i approach it, so i thought it would help if i got a more in depth understanding of how the scoring system works.
 
K

kie25

Member
Apeboy said:
So much this.

Redneck "rubbin' is racin' y'all" AI, tunnels, slow-ass wipers, all too convenient bumps and sun glare takes so much away from the game. I'm at level 40 with a season pass and each time I play I'm bummed Evo went this route. Maybe if it was once in awhile but having it so overdone is just so cheesy and contrived. Even the funniest joke gets old after awhile.
Click to expand...

I still don't get what people are going on about with the AI I race 10 lap races against them on legend all the time and hardly ever get bumped or hit, have you ever considered you are braking about 100 metres to early and such taking the AI by suprise, people do it to me online that's why I rarely go online as people are so far away from the limit it is really hard to predict there actions, the AI ain't going to predict you driving erratically, I've had great races against AI and cleaner races than I get online.
 
K

kie25

Member
#1 defender said:
Is there a good guide for how to maximize drift points? I can beat all the drift events in the Tours without much effort, but when i try my hands at some of the community challenges i'm stumped. I can see that people are still abusing the old tricks, but even with that the points difference in some corners can be so massive that it's hard for me to comprehend, like in this rainy night BMW M4 drift challenge on Tamil Nadu 01. The guy in first place gets around 45000 points in the second drift zone, whereas i can do half of that at best, no matter how i approach it, so i thought it would help if i got a more in depth understanding of how the scoring system works.
Click to expand...

That was before the patch mate it is not possible to beat them scores now, i did a perfect drift run on there the other day and only managed 13000 summit, the new drift scoring works in fast drift zones but when in tight hairpins or long slow bends you just can't match the scores set with the previous scoring system. I think I managed like 2400 on that 2nd drift zone, where as before the patch it was possible to get over 4000 same with drift zone 3 on that track, even the last drift zone you make a bit up on the 1st corner drift but can't get near the 2nd part due to loss of speed.

I'm really looking forward to the next DLC to see who is at the top the drift leaderboards, will be really interesting to see if the old top people can still be at the top, I will be putting more effort in on the drift leaderboards on next DLC.
 
1

#1 defender

Member
kie25 said:
That was before the patch mate it is not possible to beat them scores now, i did a perfect drift run on there the other day and only managed 13000 summit, the new drift scoring works in fast drift zones but when in tight hairpins or long slow bends you just can't match the scores set with the previous scoring system. I think I managed like 2400 on that 2nd drift zone, where as before the patch it was possible to get over 4000 same with drift zone 3 on that track, even the last drift zone you make a bit up on the 1st corner drift but can't get near the 2nd part due to loss of speed.

I'm really looking forward to the next DLC to see who is at the top the drift leaderboards, will be really interesting to see if the old top people can still be at the top, I will be putting more effort in on the drift leaderboards on next DLC.
Click to expand...

Oh, i see. I knew about the changes, but it didn't occur to me that the challenge must have been set up before the changes went live, makes sense now. Well, that will certainly make drifting challenges more interesting and rewarding in the future.
 
A

Apeboy

Member
kie25 said:
I still don't get what people are going on about with the AI I race 10 lap races against them on legend all the time and hardly ever get bumped or hit, have you ever considered you are braking about 100 metres to early and such taking the AI by suprise, people do it to me online that's why I rarely go online as people are so far away from the limit it is really hard to predict there actions, the AI ain't going to predict you driving erratically, I've had great races against AI and cleaner races than I get online.
Click to expand...

Not necessarily talking about cornering, I dont really get hit from behind in corners, I do get weird brake checks from the AI many times thru corners. I'm talking about things like either being the victim of or watching other AI being the victim being on a straight and another car just blatantly turns into you. Running side by side and you get bumped, rammed just because. Basically, no awareness or regard for any other car on the track.

Like you I rarely race online but I do enjoy time trials and spend most of my time there. Not a whole lot you can do about the online crash fest and I rarely, if ever, go back to tour events once completed to avoid the frustration of having to throw out any semblance of racing to get the point (star).

When you see all the quaint, cutesy stuff that should have stayed in a tech demo like forcing you to deal with water on the windshield because they won't let you speed up the wipers, blinding you out of a tunnel with a corner as soon as you come out etc. you can't help to think the AI has been modeled with the same mindset.
 
B

BradleyLove

Member
The amount of events featuring reduced vision by means of TOD or weather is seriously out of balance.

Last night I selected 9 random events from post-Elements DLC and only one event featured a clear and dry track. Every other event had rain, night or both.

Don't get me wrong, I love the dynamic TOD and weather system but it is really starting to outstay it's welcome.

Weather/night races should invoke a sense of "cool, a wet race", i.e. they should feel special. Right now, it's "crap, yet another night/wet race" with clear and dry events seeming special.

I understand Evo want to show off their awesome tech, but it just feels stale now.
 
D

DHC-Shannow

Member
BradleyLove said:
The amount of events featuring reduced vision by means of TOD or weather is seriously out of balance.

Last night I selected 9 random events from post-Elements DLC and only one event featured a clear and dry track. Every other event had rain, night or both.

Don't get me wrong, I love the dynamic TOD and weather system but it is really starting to outstay it's welcome.

Weather/night races should invoke a sense of "cool, a wet race", i.e. they should feel special. Right now, it's "crap, yet another night/wet race" with clear and dry events seeming special.

I understand Evo want to show off their awesome tech, but it just feels stale now.
Click to expand...

Lol the tour is called "Elements" for a reason y'know....
 
D

DHC-Shannow

Member
kie25 said:
I still don't get what people are going on about with the AI I race 10 lap races against them on legend all the time and hardly ever get bumped or hit, have you ever considered you are braking about 100 metres to early and such taking the AI by suprise, people do it to me online that's why I rarely go online as people are so far away from the limit it is really hard to predict there actions, the AI ain't going to predict you driving erratically, I've had great races against AI and cleaner races than I get online.
Click to expand...

Yep clean racing online is often tricky to do - you can hit people quite unintentionally just because you have to get close to pass them and you never quite know what they're going to do or what mistake they might make. And if you do hit someone, you often get the revenge attack from them and their clubmates too!

I think the lack of a driving line does add to this (tho I certainly wouldn't change it) - with GT most servers had the driving line on which told people when to brake so if you got rear ended it was more likely that it was deliberate rather then they just misjudged the distance. In DC it can catch you out when you try a car you're not used to - I know I've overshot a number of corners online with the 1:One as I'm just not that used to how long it takes to slow down.
 
L

lordxar

Member
DHC-Shannow said:
Lol the tour is called "Elements" for a reason y'know....
Click to expand...

Nah he's talking after Elements and I tend to agree that the wet stuff is a bit overused. I have the championship on Apex open but it starts rainy and instantly turns me off wanting to try it. I plowed through two stars to open up Elements last night and was not having fun...well I was but only because I figured some wet driving out enough to get two stars. Wet driving is growing on me but its far from something I enjoy right now.
 
D

DHC-Shannow

Member
lordxar said:
Nah he's talking after Elements and I tend to agree that the wet stuff is a bit overused. I have the championship on Apex open but it starts rainy and instantly turns me off wanting to try it. I plowed through two stars to open up Elements last night and was not having fun...well I was but only because I figured some wet driving out enough to get two stars. Wet driving is growing on me but its far from something I enjoy right now.
Click to expand...

Doh! Reading fail :-( I really don't mind wet driving so can't say this has ever bothered me - I know one of my club mates always kicks off about there being too many wet online races tho so I know it bothers some people.
 
psychotron

psychotron

Member
Final race of Elements championship is driving me crazy. I'm actually ok with the blinding snow and darkness, but on the last two laps of the race, the AI just ramps up like crazy. I'm leading the race doing just fine, but then they rocket past me like I'm not there. So damn annoying.
 
G

gl0w

Member
psychotron said:
Final race of Elements championship is driving me crazy. I'm actually ok with the blinding snow and darkness, but on the last two laps of the race, the AI just ramps up like crazy. I'm leading the race doing just fine, but then they rocket past me like I'm not there. So damn annoying.
Click to expand...


i'm going trough the same. omg at the snow. I tried using another camera, but no luck. and the AI is just too agressive. I will keep trying, i guess.

good luck!
 
K

kie25

Member
psychotron said:
Final race of Elements championship is driving me crazy. I'm actually ok with the blinding snow and darkness, but on the last two laps of the race, the AI just ramps up like crazy. I'm leading the race doing just fine, but then they rocket past me like I'm not there. So damn annoying.
Click to expand...

It's probably not the AI speeding up but yourself loosing abit lap time as it gets darker and hitting the apexes becomes slightly harder, especially with the snow, as I didn't notice any speed up from the AI when I did that event.
 
K

kie25

Member
DHC-Shannow said:
Doh! Reading fail :-( I really don't mind wet driving so can't say this has ever bothered me - I know one of my club mates always kicks off about there being too many wet online races tho so I know it bothers some people.
Click to expand...

Yes I really enjoy the wet driving especially heavy rain, I really wish they would have separated leaderboards from light rain to heavy rain, as I really enjoy tamming these cars in heavy rain using my wheel. I've always enjoyed racing in wet conditions on all games though especially F1 games. I remember some amazing league races that the rain played a massive part in.
 
D

DHC-Shannow

Member
psychotron said:
Final race of Elements championship is driving me crazy. I'm actually ok with the blinding snow and darkness, but on the last two laps of the race, the AI just ramps up like crazy. I'm leading the race doing just fine, but then they rocket past me like I'm not there. So damn annoying.
Click to expand...

I don't believe the AI ramps up, I think it is just you're lapping slower due to the poor visibility. You can see on my run how much I slow down on lap 2 when I haven't got the AI in front of me and it's darker.

http://youtu.be/UnL8HCpbTDg

It is easier to follow the leader for a while and use their brake lights to guide you, then get him on the last lap.
 
G

GoldenCrow

Member
kie25 said:
Yes I really enjoy the wet driving especially heavy rain, I really wish they would have separated leaderboards from light rain to heavy rain, as I really enjoy tamming these cars in heavy rain using my wheel. I've always enjoyed racing in wet conditions on all games though especially F1 games. I remember some amazing league races that the rain played a massive part in.
Click to expand...

For some reason I thought they were separated but I only ever really spend time with the dynamic rain setting.
 
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