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Marvel's Secret Wars Hype Thread - Where we argue about what "reboot" means

C

Coriolanus

Banned
The Silver said:
Ultimate Reed getting beat was so much bullshit, a goddamn sentient tumor, what the fuck man.

I don't what it is about the Ultimate Universe to make me want a mad scientist and a cannibal Hulk to win over those douches in the Ultimates.
Click to expand...

Given that they solved pretty much every resource crisis in the planet within the first 24 hours of taking power, the answer was pretty clear.

First time reed fought the world, sure, evil, dude was in mad darwinian mode, whatever.

Second time? They were legit the best thing that ever happened to the planet, and the status quo went all "lol no, can't have world peace son, cuz reasons".
 
P

Parallax

best seen in the classic "Shadow of the Beast"
The Silver said:
Ultimate Reed getting beat was so much bullshit, a goddamn sentient tumor, what the fuck man.

I don't what it is about the Ultimate Universe to make me want a mad scientist and a cannibal Hulk to win over those douches in the Ultimates.
Click to expand...

theyre monsters bred by monsters. you can easily sympathize with them over the "heroes" theyre fighting
 
M

Mudcrab

Member
Coriolanus said:
Probably smarter.

Aint younger either. Ultimate Reed is more than a thousand years old.

He also tackled, what, 60+ incursions solo? All apparently without the help of a black canary.
Click to expand...

Actually that reminds me, Ultimate Reed is totally evil. He turned that mentally damaged kid into a a bomb and blew up DC.
 
C

Coriolanus

Banned
Mudcrab said:
Actually that reminds me, Ultimate Reed is totally evil. He turned that mentally damaged kid into a a bomb and blew up DC.
Click to expand...


He created that kid with the sole purpose of doing that. And used that in retaliation for DC having nuked his city.

Kinda murky. Especially since that city was set up in a way that people were bred and lived to fulfill their exact purpose.

Either way, DC made the first move.
 
S

SoilBreak

Banned
Ultimate End" #4 Cover Revealed

zZsHM2n.jpg
Click to expand...

Axel on Miles & Tony in All-New, All Different Avengers

Axel Alonso: Waitaminute, is that Miles Morales? Or is that someone else? Someone new? Someone from Spider-Verse? Or maybe it's Peter? Or maybe it's someone he recently Googled? [Laughs]

Anyway -- that roster! When [editor] Tom Brevoort laid out the cast for the new team, it just felt right -- especially the inclusion of Ms. Marvel, Sam Wilson, and the new Thor. It felt like Next Level $#!#.

And even though it's different from what people are used to, it still looks like a classic Avengers lineup. We've got Captain America, Iron Man, Thor...

Alonso: Yeah! You've got a healthy mix of characters -- a core nucleus of veterans that have proven they can kick ass: Cap, Thor, Iron Man -- but is it really Tony inside that armor...?
Click to expand...
 
C

Coriolanus

Banned
Why?

If a single task pops and it aint timetravel/gamma/biological, reed can ace it like no one's bidness. See: Galactus

If you need to start juggling several tasks at once, like what tony was doing, setting up the new avengers structure on top of sol's hammer on top of the rogue planet on top of the builder battlecruiser on top of extremis 3.0 on top of gigantic quantities of alcohol, then tony is more apt.

Put reed in charge of any single one of those, and he'll ace it. Put him in charge of all of those, and his results will be less than adequate.
 
R

RadioHammer500

Banned
so the top 3 smartest men in the illuminati would be

1. Reed
2. T'challa
3. Tony

but Tony has a strong advantage over the top 2 because of his multitasking abilities it seems
 
C

Coriolanus

Banned
Nope. Tchalla is under Tony. Can't build anything close to extremis, sol's hammer or the like.

Tchalla just doesn't have a whole lot of tech feats.

We assuming classic illuminati for this, obv. Current? Tchalla would also be under Banner and probably McCoy. And Cho. And Pym.
 
R

RadioHammer500

Banned
Coriolanus said:
Nope. Tchalla is under Tony. Can't build anything close to extremis, sol's hammer or the like.

Tchalla just doesn't have a whole lot of tech feats.

We assuming classic illuminati for this, obv. Current? Tchalla would also be under Banner and probably McCoy. And Cho. And Pym.
Click to expand...

yeah looking back I would agree that T'challa is, unarguably, under Tony in intelligence/science/tech feats

but why does Reed always have T'challa as his science partner...instead of Tony or Pym?
 
K

Kid Kamikaze10

Member
Coriolanus said:
Nope. Tchalla is under Tony. Can't build anything close to extremis, sol's hammer or the like.

Tchalla just doesn't have a whole lot of tech feats.

We assuming classic illuminati for this, obv. Current? Tchalla would also be under Banner and probably McCoy. And Cho. And Pym.
Click to expand...

I think that has more to do with writer just plain not giving T'Challa feats (last time I remember anyone giving him one was like McDuffie), instead of him being under all of them. Though, political science wise, he's probably better than all of the above.

He's supposed to be Reed's peer, tech wise (though yeah, Reed's above him and everyone else). But isn't outright treated as such because writers like the other guys more.


Besides all that though, T'Challa's Reed's partner probably because he gets along better with him than Tony (who has his really off moments) and Hank (whom Reed has trashed on plenty of times see: Slott's Mighty Avengers)
 
R

RadioHammer500

Banned
Kid Kamikaze10 said:
I think that has more to do with writer just plain not giving T'Challa feats (last time I remember anyone giving him one was like McDuffie), instead of him being under all of them. Though, political science wise, he's probably better than all of the above.

He's supposed to be Reed's peer, tech wise (though yeah, Reed's above him and everyone else). But isn't outright treated as such because writers like the other guys more.


Besides all that though, T'Challa's Reed's partner probably because he gets along better with him than Tony (who has his really off moments) and Hank (whom Reed has trashed on plenty of times see: Slott's Mighty Avengers)
Click to expand...

yeah but you can say the same thing about any other character..that they have the potential to be smart if the writer wants it to.....


these questions ultimately have to be judged by feats..and T'challa just lacks the feats that Tony has...and Tony lacks the feats Reed has

i mean your right about the idea that there are other intelligence besides science, like philosophy, political science etc. and in the real world I would agree 100 percent

but in the Marvel universe, science reigns supreme, because of the things they do....it doesn't matter how smart you are in political science you are not more intelligent then a guy that built a dyson sphere on the sun...( Tony)
 
C

Coriolanus

Banned
Kid Kamikaze10 said:
I think that has more to do with writer just plain not giving T'Challa feats (last time I remember anyone giving him one was like McDuffie), instead of him being under all of them. Though, political science wise, he's probably better than all of the above.
Click to expand...

Namor is Tchalla's superior as far as polisci is concerned. He proposed the truce between countries (whereas tchalla needed to seek further advice from reed on the matter, who did nothing more than state the bloody freaking obvious, was punked by Shuri's assessors and failed to convince her) and was always (as far as incursions are concerned) more than willing to put the needs of the many ahead of the needs of the few and bear the consequences of his actions.

For all the hate namor gets, he knows when to bend the knee.

A more interesting matchup in polisci would be tchalla vs black bolt. I've no idea which would come out on top.
Both lost the throne, both lost the kingdom. Then again, inhumans popping all around the world and medusa's still in charge of the island-kingdom, whereas wakanda is pretty much shafted.
 
R

RadioHammer500

Banned
Coriolanus said:
Namor is Tchalla's superior as far as polisci is concerned. He proposed the truce between countries (whereas tchalla needed to seek further advice from reed on the matter, who did nothing more than state the bloody freaking obvious, was punked by Shuri's assessors and failed to convince her) and was always (as far as incursions are concerned) more than willing to put the needs of the many ahead of the needs of the few and bear the consequences of his actions.

For all the hate namor gets, he knows when to bend the knee.

A more interesting matchup in polisci would be tchalla vs black bolt. I've no idea which would come out on top.
Both lost the throne, both lost the kingdom. Then again, inhumans popping all around the world and medusa's still in charge of the island-kingdom, whereas wakanda is pretty much shafted.
Click to expand...
yeah i was going to say..I think Namor is a much better leader than T'challa....
 
P

Parallax

best seen in the classic "Shadow of the Beast"
Coriolanus said:
Nope. Tchalla is under Tony. Can't build anything close to extremis, sol's hammer or the like.

Tchalla just doesn't have a whole lot of tech feats.

We assuming classic illuminati for this, obv. Current? Tchalla would also be under Banner and probably McCoy. And Cho. And Pym.
Click to expand...

Not top feat sure, but under cho? No. Tchalla managed to trap mephisto and break tonys stealth armor with windex
 
K

Kid Kamikaze10

Member
Coriolanus said:
Namor is Tchalla's superior as far as polisci is concerned. He proposed the truce between countries (whereas tchalla needed to seek further advice from reed on the matter, who did nothing more than state the bloody freaking obvious, was punked by Shuri's assessors and failed to convince her) and was always (as far as incursions are concerned) more than willing to put the needs of the many ahead of the needs of the few and bear the consequences of his actions.

For all the hate namor gets, he knows when to bend the knee.

A more interesting matchup in polisci would be tchalla vs black bolt. I've no idea which would come out on top.
Both lost the throne, both lost the kingdom. Then again, inhumans popping all around the world and medusa's still in charge of the island-kingdom, whereas wakanda is pretty much shafted.
Click to expand...

I'd say Pre-Hickman Namor/Priest run BP proves other wise. Unless you think attacking the US is a good idea.

BP had no political power during the war situation, that was all Shuri and he knew it. He also knew that it would take a whole lot (like outright making the incursions public a lot) for Wakanda to just stop fighting Atlantis after all those attacks, whereas before Wakanda's attack, Atlantis had nothing to gain through the war.

In short, it was way easier for Namor to bend the knee than it was for T'Challa, namely because one actually had the power to while the other had to convince his hardheaded sister and the entire country, while not bringing up why.
 
C

Coriolanus

Banned
Kid Kamikaze10 said:
I'd say Pre-Hickman Namor/Priest run BP proves other wise. Unless you think attacking the US is a good idea.

BP had no political power during the war situation, that was all Shuri and he knew it. He also knew that it would take a whole lot (like outright making the incursions public a lot) for Wakanda to just stop fighting Atlantis after all those attacks, whereas before Wakanda's attack, Atlantis had nothing to gain through the war.

In short, it was way easier for Namor to bend the knee than it was for T'Challa, namely because one actually had the power to while the other had to convince his hardheaded sister and the entire country, while not bringing up why.
Click to expand...

Pre-Hickman, we enter Black Sue territory. We also enter the whole lot of grotesquely stupid shit Namor did over the years, at which point Namorita is a far better diplomat.

BP is the one to blame for not having political power, so BP bears the brunt of being crap at polisci. That Tchalla can't trust Shuri to the point where he wouldn't share the truth about the incursions with her is his own failing.

Not one of the ilumi-bros gave Boltagon crap for bringing Maximus to the table, so it'd be hilarious if they gave him flak for that.

Parallax said:
Not top feat sure, but under cho? No. Tchalla managed to trap mephisto and break tonys stealth armor with windex
Click to expand...
Come on mang, gimme pix
 
K

Kid Kamikaze10

Member
Coriolanus said:
Pre-Hickman, we enter Black Sue territory. We also enter the whole lot of grotesquely stupid shit Namor did over the years, at which point Namorita is a far better diplomat.
Click to expand...

You know, I tend to think every positive portrayal of BP is considered "Black Sue" by comic book fans.

And why aren't those Namor moments considered? I mean, if we're going to compare notes, why not bring up prior history?

BP is the one to blame for not having political power
Click to expand...

Wait, he's to blame for getting taken out by Doom?

That Tchalla can't trust Shuri to the point where he wouldn't share the truth about the incursions with her is his own failing.
Click to expand...

Or it's following the Illuminati's code of conduct. They were even trying to hide the details from Doctor Doom for goodness sake. Beyond telling them exactly what the "greater threat" was, there was no way anyone could justify a ceasefire between Wakanda and Atlantis to the Wakandans, or Shuri for that matter. Nevermind allowing Namor into Necropolis.


Seriously, it sounds like you just don't like the character.

Not one of the ilumi-bros gave Boltagon crap for bringing Maximus to the table, so it'd be hilarious if they gave him flak for that.
Click to expand...

I've been wondering that for a while.
 
K

Kid Kamikaze10

Member
In the end though, much like "who's the strongest", the "who's the smartest" debate is pretty dumb and usually boils down to "my dad can beat your dad" junk.
 
G

Gintamen

Member
RadioHammer500 said:
so what exactly did Tony build that Reed called him the greatest multitasker in the world...what did Tony and his brain of his do
Click to expand...
They are actually showing what he has done.

Tweaked the Planetkiller, created a weapon capable of using the sun['s radiation/energy] as an energy source. Dunno how much he worked on the world bombs.
 
R

RadioHammer500

Banned
man i still feel loss cause im relatively new to the marvel unvierse, but i been reading this arc for as a while now


is Ultimate Reed/Maker smarter then like 616 Illuminati combined...or at least every 616 Illuminati individual member

cause it seems like he sure is
 
D

Deleted member 10571

Unconfirmed Member
RadioHammer500 said:
man i still feel loss cause im relatively new to the marvel unvierse, but i been reading this arc for as a while now


is Ultimate Reed/Maker smarter then like 616 Illuminati combined...or at least every 616 Illuminati individual member

cause it seems like he sure is
Click to expand...

He's (for all we know) at least as smart as 616 Reed, but not hindered by family or morality. Wasn't this discussed earlier? :D

So guys,
if this is "the final incursion", does this mean there's only 616 and Ultimate left? Because it seems there should be way more for Secret Wars, after this whole talk about Battleworld etc. I'm confused.
 
P

Parallax

best seen in the classic "Shadow of the Beast"
Bufbaf said:
He's (for all we know) at least as smart as 616 Reed, but not hindered by family or morality. Wasn't this discussed earlier? :D

So guys,
if this is "the final incursion", does this mean there's only 616 and Ultimate left? Because it seems there should be way more for Secret Wars, after this whole talk about Battleworld etc. I'm confused.
Click to expand...

the champions meet in the incursionbowl. which the ultimate needs infinite helicarrier drops to even the odds
 
S

Sandfox

Member
Bufbaf said:
He's (for all we know) at least as smart as 616 Reed, but not hindered by family or morality. Wasn't this discussed earlier? :D

So guys,
if this is "the final incursion", does this mean there's only 616 and Ultimate left? Because it seems there should be way more for Secret Wars, after this whole talk about Battleworld etc. I'm confused.
Click to expand...

These are that last two universes/planets to become a part of Battleworld. Everything else is gone.
 
A

Afrodium

Banned
Bufbaf said:
He's (for all we know) at least as smart as 616 Reed, but not hindered by family or morality. Wasn't this discussed earlier? :D

So guys,
if this is "the final incursion", does this mean there's only 616 and Ultimate left? Because it seems there should be way more for Secret Wars, after this whole talk about Battleworld etc. I'm confused.
Click to expand...

We don't really know how worlds get to Battleworld yet, but everything Marvel has released pretty much guarantees that Battleworld will consist of more than just 616 and Ultimate. This is the final incursion, but for all we know incursions are what send planets to Battleworld and 616 +Ultimate are the last to arrive.
 
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