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[richiek]

http://www.cnn.com/2015/07/02/politics/confederate-flag-poll-racism-southern-pride/index.html

Washington (CNN)American public opinion on the Confederate flag remains about where it was 15 years ago, with most describing the flag as a symbol of Southern pride more than one of racism, according to a new CNN/ORC poll. And questions about how far to go to remove references to the Confederacy from public life prompt broad racial divides.

The poll shows that 57% of Americans see the flag more as a symbol of Southern pride than as a symbol of racism, about the same as in 2000 when 59% said they viewed it as a symbol of pride. Opinions of the flag are sharply divided by race, and among whites, views are split by education.

Among African-Americans, 72% see the Confederate flag as a symbol of racism, just 25% of whites agree. In the South, the racial divide is even broader. While 75% of Southern whites describe the flag as a symbol of pride and 18% call it a symbol of racism, those figures are almost exactly reversed among Southern African-Americans, with just 11% seeing it as a sign of pride and 75% viewing it as a symbol of racism.

Among whites, there's a sharp divide by education, and those with more formal education are less apt to see the flag as a symbol of pride. Among whites with a college degree, 51% say it's a symbol of pride, 41% one of racism. Among those whites who do not have a college degree, 73% say it's a sign of Southern pride, 18% racism.

Seriously America, what the fuck... 51% of college educated whites think the confederate flag is a symbol of pride... I can't even...

 

[Toa TAK]

Surprise, surprise!

 

[Slayven]

Privilege has it benefits

 

[Calm Killer]

What part of the country was this poll taken?

 

[SocksAndShoes]

Nah, I refuse to believe that the majority could be wrong on something. The numbers must be off somewhere.

 

[Archer]

They're entitled to their opinion, just like those on NEOGAF.

 

[Crimson_Gold]

Well, there it is.

Has anyone ever stopped to ask if this "southern pride" is just plain racism? I mean...come on.

 

[Ultima_5]

i don't see what going to college has to do with being educated

 

[Opiate]

I disagree, but I do want to point out that symbology does work this way. If, 50 years from now, it is viewed as purely a symbol of southern pride by 99% of the population (including blacks), then yes, that is what it will mean.

I suspect there are significant disparities, though. I suspect urban and northern people are less likely to view it so generously. I suspect minorities are less likely to view it so generously. That 57% may be hugely skewed demographically.

 

[Oppo]

ask this exact same group of people

- if angels exist

- if the end times are nigh

- if the USA has a communist dictator muslim tyrant for a leader

I disagree, but I do want to point out that symbology does work this way. If, 50 years from now, it is viewed as purely a symbol of southern pride by 99% of the population (including blacks), then yes, that is what it will mean.

I think the common meaning is quite literally in flux as we speak

 

[Eighty Deuce]

Dukes of hazard, MOUNTAIN DEW NASCAR BRING ME THE HEART OF JEFF GORDON

 

[metalslimer]

I still have no idea the south is even suppposed to be proud of

 

[BobLoblaw]

Southern pride (of racism).

Among those whites who do not have a college degree, 73% say it's a sign of Southern pride, 18% racism.

I'm shocked at this.

 

[zeemumu]

Pride for what, exactly?

 

[Squalor]

Are these the same people who don't realize that they themselves are racist?

Are these the same people who think the flag is some Confederacy symbol even though the Confederacy never officially co-opted it? It is a KKK symbol.

 

[Slayven]

I still have no idea the south is even suppposed to be proud of

They fought for state rights


The rights to keep slaves.

 

[Patryn]

I would be very curious to know the geographic breakdown of the poll, i.e. North vs. South vs. Midwest vs. West, etc.

 

[NumberTwo]

You guys are misunderstanding. They're mostly just Skynard fans.

 

[Opiate]

Just to be clear, something with historically racist roots can become non racist if language and culture change. Just as things which may not have been racist 200 years ago may be racist now.

However, the minority most affected by the change sort of has to be on board for that to happen. Even if 90% of Americans decided that "Jap" was no longer racist, that wouldn't mean much if virtually all Japanese Americans were still in the 10% who found it offensive. The majority can't decide for the minority that something that offends them isn't offensive anymore.

 

[belmonkey]

What exactly would the south being taking pride in?

 

[Angry Grimace]

ask this exact same group of people

- if angels exist

- if the end times are nigh

- if the USA has a communist dictator muslim tyrant for a leader

Its actually possible to have the opinion that the flag is merely a symbol of Southern pride without simultaneously holding explicit racist beliefs.

Its more complicated than that and its absurd to simply dumb down every argument like this.

 

[Regginator]

No surprise, just like how the majority in the Netherlands don't see Black Face as racist but as an innocent event for children.

 

[John Dunbar]

on the daily show reruns colbert just made a joke about the truth lying in the middle: it's a proud symbol of a heritage of hate.

 

[J10]

Pride is a funny word when it's attached to some shit you had no say over.

 

[jax]

And this is exactly why I would never live in the south.

 

[Dryk]

Straight down racial lines, like you'd expect

 

[DrForester]

What exactly would the south being taking pride in?

Pride that their ancestors betrayed their country and killed people in order to own people.

 

[JDSN]

There should be an ítem pointing out if the person being interviewed gave a wink and a smirk as he said "Heritage".

 

[metalslimer]

on the daily show reruns colbert just made a joke about the truth lying in the middle: it's a proud symbol of a heritage of hate.

Honestly this seems right. Sure it can be a symbol of pride but first the south has to explain what it's proud of.

 

[Version 3.0]

Why is this an either/or question? It's both. That's the whole point. Because some people use it innocently (or ignorantly) as a symbol of southern pride - say, the Duke boys - it makes it harder to tell who's using it as a symbol of racism.

 

[Buddha Beam]

Southern pride and racism are essentially the same thing, soooo....

 

[Zoggy]

What exactly would the south being taking pride in?

losing a war that was mostly about the right to keep colored people as unpaid servants*

*lets call it states rights for short

 

[Hero_of_the_Day]

So, more whites need educated.

 

[ElectricBlanketFire]

If not for pride in the confederate army, what exactly is southern pride?

What specifically are you proud of?

 

[Tuck]

Just to be clear, something with historically racist roots can become non racist if language and culture change. Just as things which may not have been racist 200 years ago may be racist now.

However, the minority most affected by the change sort of has to be on board for that to happen. Even if 90% of Americans decided that "Jap" was no longer racist, that wouldn't mean much if virtually all Japanese Americans were still in the 10% who found it offensive. The majority can't decide for the minority that something that offends them isn't offensive anymore.

The word "queer" is probably an example of this. Used to be an insult (and as far as I'm concerned still is), yet the lgbt community seems to be embracing it and using it as an umbrella term.

 

[Veritigo_X]

They're essentially voting for the same thing either way.

 

[chuckddd]

Oh. It's only 43% racist. That makes it ok. Fly it high!

 

[Zoggy]

And this is exactly why I would never live in the south.

i hate to break it to you, but this is not exclusive to places that are under the mason-dixon line

 

[SmokyDave]

That's like asking if an apple is juicy or delicious.

 

[entremet]

We're way too focused on this shitty flag.

I'd rather we focus on ending the drug war, which hurts the black community thousands time more.

 

[……forgetit]

If the vast majority of black people say it's racist, it's racist.

 

[Zach]

Oh. It's only 43% racist. That makes it ok. Fly it high!

Haha...

 

[Dryk]

losing a war that was mostly about the right to keep colored people as unpaid servants*

*lets call it states rights for short

The federal government didn't even care at the time, they seceded preemptively.

If not for pride in the confederate army, what exactly is southern pride?

What specifically are you proud of?

I see a lot of stick it to the man sentiment around the flag. Which is weird because in the Civil War era the South wanted the man to do their dirty work for them in the free states. The flag wasn't a symbol of sticking it to the man until the Civil Rig... ohhhh wait

 

[metalslimer]

We're way too focused on this shitty flag.

I'd rather we focus on ending the drug war, which hurts the black community thousands time more.

This flag is a representation of the problem to begin with. People don't even want to acknowledge there is a problem and until that happens we are going no where with any serious issue to help the black community

 

[Zoggy]

If not for pride in the confederate army, what exactly is southern pride?

What specifically are you proud of?

southern hospitality, great fried foods.

i associate those two things with the south and if I was southern i would be really proud of those things.

 

[old manatee]

People in the south aren't proud of being racist. They are proud of rebuilding after the civil war.

It's just a shame they didn't make a new flag to honor the occasion.

 

[J10]

If the vast majority of black people say it's racist, it's racist.

What makes you think black people know anything about how to identify racism in America?

 

[entremet]

This flag is a representation of the problem to begin with. People don't even want to acknowledge there is a problem and until that happens we are going no where with any serious issue to help the black community

I agree. But its low hanging fruit. I'd rather have concrete solutions than arguing about a dumb flag.

You get change by building consensus. Focusing on a flag is a waste of time.

I think the Flag should be abolished, for the record, at least in State government. You really can't ban for private use due to free speech.

 

[Dude Abides]

People in the south aren't proud of being racist. They are proud of rebuilding after the civil war.

It's just a shame they didn't make a new flag to honor the occasion.

"Rebuilding" is a funny word for Jim Crow and KKK terror.

 

[metalslimer]

People in the south aren't proud of being racist. They are proud of rebuilding after the civil war.

It's just a shame they didn't make a new flag to honor the occasion.

I wouldn't be proud of the way the south handled themselves post Civil War either.

Honestly at no point in its history does the south so far does it deserve a collective pat on the back.