birthday-suit
Banned
It's like they don't want to compete
Mind boggling
Mind boggling
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Liam Robertson (of Unseen64 fame): "NX is not aiming to compete on a power level"
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Deadpool_X
Banned
So much speculation going on in here. Maybe it's best we all take a step back and collect ourselves so that we aren't massively disappointed when Nintendo reveals the NX next year.
So I would guess based on your response they are absoutely not interested in third party ever so slightly? And they are willing to release and support games all months continously for years? Yea..ok if this ever happen then Nintendo have really lost it.
visiblemode
Member
I don't know how much magic would be required. Over 2 years ago CNN Money said that a Wii U cost $228 to make. $79 of which was the gamepad.
You have to expect these low spec components would have dropped in cost in over 2 years.
Either way, it just goes to show the bind they put themselves in with the gamepad. It's a massive percentage of the cost.
I do love my Wii U, but when I can get away with it, I often use my Pro controller.
sörine;170958971 said:
The Vita used proprietary memory to combat piracy, the absurd cost was just Sony's unwillingness to eat the R&D associated with making an entirely new, proprietary format of similar form factor to MicroSD so as to prevent pass through cards from being engineered.
The Vita was borderline break even at launch, Hirai stated as much when it was first launched. The write down was due to the stuffed retail channel that where retailers paid Sony MSRP minus ~$10 per unit and are now selling them for $150 or so.
Übermatik;170960903 said:
That is what I would expect from Nintendo as a handheld at Wii U power levels with a wireless HDMI dongle bundle/sold separately would let Nintendo use the Wii U as instant install base, develop all titles to be on both a handheld of Wii U power and the Wii U itself (consolidating their game development and audience) and allow for a rapid transition of engines and software libraries to the new device.
Nintendo's handhelds have been behind Sony's technologically, but never a full generation behind. The DS was better than N64 level while the PSP was sub-PS2 level. the 3DS was better than Gamecube level while the Vita was sub-PS3. If Sony was to make another handheld for 2017 or 2018 release it would be sub-PS4, therefore the next Nintendo handheld would reasonably be better than PS360, i.e. Wii U.
This is the timeline they've always scaled their hardware on. This time around it also makes an ideal opportunity for them to consolidate game development across a hardware "family" via wireless HDMI, exiting the dedicated home console market while still offering an avenue for living room multiplayer.
My concern is that they'll only do a half step and that they'll make a Wii U level handheld that doesn't offer wireless HDMI and multiplayer when in wireless HDMI mode via bluetooth or similar. If it is a straight handheld and people who want to play on their TV need to still buy a Wii U then Nintendo is still foisting a bunch of unneeded hardware cost on their consumers who could instead be buying more Nintendo games.
ArkhamFantasy
Member
We are certain of two things, people like Nintendo games, but people dont like buying Nintendo hardware anymore. If the console is only 200 dollars then the latter becomes a little bit less of an issue.
Yep, the Gamecube was $99 22 months after launch with decent third party support and the cheap price didn't save it.
Clearly Nintendo's strategy can't just be to hope for Gamecube-level sales on the console front while the NX portable's market shrinks from the 3DS.
We're not going to get just a cheap Nintendo 1st party/mobile/indie box with a normal controller.
Of course there is gonna a new concept.We just don´t know what.
Bubba_Sparks
Member
To me, Nintendo is completely irrelevant in terms of home consoles. The NX seems like they want to leverage their strengths in the mobile space and somehow bridge the gap between mobile and home console. I don't know if they can do it, but even if they can put together a competent piece of hardware, I'm just not sure then can produce any software to get a large number of people interested. All throughout the Wii generation it felt like Nintendo was falling further and further behind in game development. This generation it has been even more apparent. Looking at some of the games coming to PC/PS4/Xbox One over the next couple of years makes me wonder how Nintendo expects to attract an audience. They obviously have the Nintendo faithful, and younger market that they cater to, but it feels like both demographics have been shrinking for them. Mobile phones and Tablets have taken that younger demographic to an extent and the Nintendo faithful have grown older and aged out. It will be interesting to see how this goes for them.
Plinko
Wildcard berths that can't beat teams without a winning record should have homefield advantage
Two scenarios:
A) Nintendo puts out cheap console. Tries for impulse buys. Goes for $149-$199 at launch.
B) Nintendo puts out superpowerful console which GAF seems to want. Tries for core market. Goes for $349-$399 at launch.
Let's assume both fail (I have my feeling that scenario A would fare much better, but I digress).
What type of scenario leaves Nintendo in a better financial position if they fail again? I'd argue that Nintendo would be MUCH better off trying for the cheap market again, then, if that try fails, go one last time at a powerful console.
Votron said:
If they bridge the gap between mobile/console, they'll still have some new third party support. If both console/handheld share the same library, they'll still have some third-party support to go along with a steady stream of first-party games. Remember--if that library is shared, the companies that support the handhelds are now supporting the console: Atlus, Sega, Level-5, Square-Enix, indies, etc. The usual suspects.
Let's not kid ourselves thinking Nintendo is EVER going to get people to buy Madden/CoD/etc on their system. That time has passed.
birthday-suit said:
They haven't been able to compete for years. It shouldn't be surprising in the slightest that this is the route they should want to take.
birthday-suit
Banned
What's preventing them from what doing what sony and Microsoft do?
Do they just not want to?
Do they just not want to?
If it was as easy as releasing a powerful console and online features people expect from playsation/xbox they would.It goes deeper than that.
What would be the point in doing the same as Sony/Microsoft two years (or more) into the generation?
Jorok Goldblade
Member
Nintendo needs to build up a stronger core of US and EU developers. The N64 would have been a Wii U level disaster without Rare.
Honestly, what could be more disappointing than another Wii U?
Better question: what type of scenario leaves Nintendo in a better market postion?
Thinking "what will lose us less money now" is dangerous when you aren't mindful of where your money is coming from later. And the shrinking Nintendo fanbase makes it quite clear that they have to start doing something to fix that. A cheap box doesn't do that.
Unless, you know, they bail like they've already started to on the handheld market. And it makes the rather strong assumption that 3rd-parties will care if their handheld projects are available on both hardware units in their optimal presentation. No, if 3rd-parties from handhelds release it on the console side, you'll be enjoying a 540p mess because the minimal effort to get it working on the console isn't worth it to them. And if Nintendo mandates that they have to, expect 3rd-party software to contract even from their handheld partners.
This shared library solution is definitely to Nintendo's benefit, but we have no evidence that it's something that 3rd-parties care about in the slightest.
Because that's all there is to 3rd-party software. K.
It's not about surprise or not. I just would have thought they didn't want their business to slowly fade away into nothing, that's all. Should this cheap Nintendo box people keep talking about come to be what NX's console hardware is, that's exactly what's going to happen. At this point, Nintendo will have ignored every single warning sign and soldiered past them; there would literally be no turning them back around from that.
I haven't seen too many people clamor for a super-powerful system, just something that's more competitive with the PS4/XB1. Anyways...
Option 2 would probably erode some of their warchest, but potentially start the process of a slow recovery among the mainstream gaming audience.
Option 1 would leave them in a better financial position, but with a dangerously low amount of mindshare and consumer goodwill. A company that has lost the market's trust after repeated disappointing product launches is also at risk even if it's financially secure.
Grampa Simpson
Banned
You could certainly fool me.
Anyone thinking putting out a super powerful console next year is a good idea, is out of their minds.
The only thing Nintendo can do to make it work is to make a thing like the Wii was: a huge no brainer success.
Or NX is actually a handheld.
Otherwise ride the Wii U til the next generation. Nintendo is back to profitability and I can't understand the need to rush to the next generation.
The only thing Nintendo can do to make it work is to make a thing like the Wii was: a huge no brainer success.
Or NX is actually a handheld.
Otherwise ride the Wii U til the next generation. Nintendo is back to profitability and I can't understand the need to rush to the next generation.
meanspartan
Member
How the fuck is this hard Nintendo?
Make a box, as powerful or more powerful than a Ps4. Make a normal fucking controller. Call it the Nintendo Entertainment System, and have a launch list including Zelda, a Mario game, a Metroid Prime, and maybe a Mario Maker port.
That's what it will take. And if you copy the designs of the Ps4 and Xbone close enough, you will even get some 3rd party support by default if it's easy to port.
Stop doing "quirky" weird shit. Nobody wants an android console. Not your core audience anyway.
Make a box, as powerful or more powerful than a Ps4. Make a normal fucking controller. Call it the Nintendo Entertainment System, and have a launch list including Zelda, a Mario game, a Metroid Prime, and maybe a Mario Maker port.
That's what it will take. And if you copy the designs of the Ps4 and Xbone close enough, you will even get some 3rd party support by default if it's easy to port.
Stop doing "quirky" weird shit. Nobody wants an android console. Not your core audience anyway.
Of course it's not everything, but it is important I'd say.
Not many are asking for super powerful. All people want is for it to be in the ballpark of the other two systems so it can run ports decently.
Home console market has only one equally profitably generation and that is genesis vs snes. Other than that always one company was swimming in profits while other company/s has to suck it up.
Apparently it's not, since everyone is ready to forsake even the most remote possibility in favor of a Nintendo box.
That doesn't address any of what he said.
The piracy excuse was rather transparently bullshit, formfactor does little to actually curb piracy. In fact Vita's only real defense against hacking thus far has been it's pervasive unpopularity, lack of desirable native software and a general disinterest from the community. We also heard speed/QA justifications early on which were also debunked when testing revealed Vita's cards are significantly slower than a basic Class 10 SD card and stress testing hasn't shown reliability beyond other SD manufacturers. It's pretty obvious why Sony priced cards the way they did and no it wasn't because of R&D costs demanding it.
The write down referenced all Vita hardware models (even PSTV) so your specific price point fluctuations don't seem too grounded. Have a source for that? Or the Hirai quote? I vaguely remember that but also thought it referenced the Vita business as a whole?
Cheeseman Battitude
Member
Indeed. If Splatoon can sell 1m copies to ~10m users then their established games can do even better and they should ride it out.
Who is going to buy a decently (or even really) powerful (but otherwise regular) Nintendo console in 2016 when they could buy a PS4/XB1 other than their (potentially dwindling) loyal fanbase?
Not sure I quite get what you say, but do you believe that it doesn't make a difference whether people buy said games on a Nintendo console? Sorry, I am a bit under the weather.
Well Japan will buy it, just in it's handheld form.
It does, you can´t recover mainstream appeal.If you have it you have it,if you don´t you just lose money and hope to make it better next time.
It isn't mind boggling if you look at MS/Sony financial reports.
You'll notice that nobody else wants to compete either. Why isn't Samsung trying to make a high end console? They have the money and resources and technical know how. Why isn't Apple? They seem to want to just keep the iOS store running. Why isn't Google? Why is Amazon making a set top box that runs Android games? How about a dark horse company like 3M or Oracle? All of these companies have the resources to make a home console that is directly in line with PS4/Xbone if that's what they wanted to do. Microsoft pushed its way in 15 years ago, and in the last decade and a half, no one else has made a serious attempt to enter the high end console market. Why is that?
Answer: because it's a terrible business to be in. Nobody wants in. Given that context, it's not surprising that Nintendo is operating this way. Why push hard / spent a ton of money to get yourself back in to a market that isn't very profitable anyway?
Who's going to buy a cheap Nintendo console other than their definitely dwindling loyal fanbase?
One gives them something to build off of in the future. The other puts them chin-deep in a sinkhole with no desire to get out.
So what you're saying is that they should give up and make their situation even worse. OK.
PS4 was profitable day one with a PS+ one year membership. It was profitable within a few months after launch without the PS+ membership.
It's really not that difficult to make a profitable and powerful machine. The days of losing $200 on every $599 console sold are over. You make the most powerful console you can make at $399 without losing money. That's the PS4. It works, and has worked a whole lot better than the $349 underpowered Nintendo box with a gimmick controller.
um helloooooooooo that 100 million wii install base and 1 billion mobile gamers will be all over dat new metroid
Those who want Nintendo games but also want fifa and cod. But most of those probably already bought a ps4/ xbox one so I dont know.
The point is it sucks having to chose between first party games and third party games when both other consoles gives you both.
Nah, Android and iOS already have 3rd-parties and mindshare on lockdown, why even bother trying to compete with that?
No they should control the damage and that is exactly what they are doing.
The damage is they're bleeding out their user base. That's not controlling the damage whatsoever, it's applying a Band-Aid to a gaping neck wound.
I for one agree with this.
Not only Mario but all their IPs deserve better.
I definitely do not want them to sacrifice performance over better visuals but aliasing hurts the overall presentation of their games.
They want to out live their fanbase with mobile which is combining with other initiatives for hardware/licensing, they are controlling the damage very well especially after wiiu/3ds disaster.
GhostTrick
Banned
Exactly. People get mad about the fact that they won't have a good hardware... IMO, the problem lies elsewhere: Their entire philosophy. They just don't care about IQ. They can have a great artstyle ruined by a terrible IQ. It seems they can't even take advantage of what they have available as hardware power.
But it's not only that. I think they could be successful with a 128gflops handheld and a 512glops home console, or even 1tflop. What they need though are appealing and daring games. Stuff that aren't playing safe. Stuff that please to their core audience but also new fresh stuff that appeal to others. An appealing blue ocean, platform agnostic.
As a consumer electronic entertainment company, you actually can't outlive your fanbase without generating a new fanbase. And there's nothing to show that there will be a conversion rate from their mobile games yet, so at this point, why even bring it up as a solution to the problem?
The system would be in that spot (bold) regardless of power. People see Nintendo systems as only being good for Nintendo games. Power isn't going to help with that since very few are going to want to move over to a Nintendo console to play the top selling AAA third party (online) games anyway.
So either they go with a powerful console that will be high in price (thus making it harder to lower the price of) that will be seen as a "Nintendo box" regardless, or go with a cheap box that's powerful enough to have impressive looking Nintendo games that many would considering buying/having alongside their Playstation and/or Xbox.
If you are a core gamer with a modern Nintendo console then chances are you care far more about Nintendo games than power since Nintendo hasn't been about "power" for more than a decade. Many who want to play Nintendo games on the Wii U that don't have the system don't care about the Wii U's power either. They would have one if the system was a cheaper price.
You can use the Gamecube as an example all you want but the Wii U would obviously be doing better than it is now if the system was $200 or less (it's not though due to the gamepad). Nintendo going for great AAA third party support again would be respectable but it would be a waste since it simply isn't going to happen. Two decades of build up for not being the cool brand to play popular third party games isn't going to go away any time soon -- especially during the peak periods of the Xbox One and PS4's life (i.e.: the time that the NX will release).
So Nintendo can pretty much either go for something that will do respectably (not in "top spot" though) since it will be cheap and have a wide variety of highly rated exclusive games, or go for another $300+ console that very few will want for third party games due to the Xbox One and PS4's already large online userbases and gaming libraries during that time. Anyone who thinks Nintendo can be successful doing the latter simply isn't being realistic in my opinion.
vagabondarts
Member
E3 showed that in terms of exciting games coming out that people want to play, Nintendo is going to get absolutely murdered this Christmas by PS4 and Xbox One.
High profile exciting games that people want to play are coming out and none of them are on Nintendo platforms. (I don't mean that Nintendo games coming out are going to suck) All momentum is behind PS4 and Xbox.
I love WiiU and 3DS but it's a dark time. I expect there to be something we don't know about yet to help carry them through the 4th quarter.
Amiibo isn't going to cut it.
That being said, the NX is mysterious and interesting. I also think new 3DS is a Trojan horse for their new integrated back end and user accounts that they will have fully operational this fall.
Total unrestrained speculation on my part, but there it is.
High profile exciting games that people want to play are coming out and none of them are on Nintendo platforms. (I don't mean that Nintendo games coming out are going to suck) All momentum is behind PS4 and Xbox.
I love WiiU and 3DS but it's a dark time. I expect there to be something we don't know about yet to help carry them through the 4th quarter.
Amiibo isn't going to cut it.
That being said, the NX is mysterious and interesting. I also think new 3DS is a Trojan horse for their new integrated back end and user accounts that they will have fully operational this fall.
Total unrestrained speculation on my part, but there it is.
It´s better than your solution.There is a reason for no new players in game console market.
Even if we hypothetically assume that those games came to NX, the community of (3rd party) multiplayer games is elsewhere.
They're in a tough spot either way. Personally I think they're going to need some gimmick/hook, be that software/hardware gimmick/other features. That said, a cheap price point might certainly allow them to carve a different niche. I haven't seen convincing arguments that a powerful/semi-powerful console would work and while I'm not convinced a cheap device will work, I'd say it might be a slightly better option. Then again, I trust Nintendo to fuck up.
Again, who is reasonably going to buy a powerful (but otherwise regular) Nintendo console launching in 2016? How big is that audience? How would a reasonable chain of events look like that would allow them to build upon the console?
The Abominable Snowman
Member
The NX is a handheld. It may not compete with PS4 but it should at least have Wii U level capability on the go. Should at least be more powerful than the first iPad Air.
Judging by the thread, it's a bigger audience than anyone gives credence to. And more importantly, it's an audience you can build instead of merely sustaining yourself off of despite it being a finite thing.
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