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[Loris146]

Current state of US Amazon sales in november:

Software:
#1 Fallout 4 [PS4]
#2 Fallout 4 [Xbone]
#3 Blops3 [Xbone]
#4 Blops3 [PS4]
#8 Twilight Princess [WiiU]
#10 Battlefront Deluxe [PS4]
#13 Halo 5
#14 Battlefront Deluxe [Xbone]
#16 Battlefront standard [PS4]
#17 MGSV [PS4]
#19 Battlefront standard [Xbone]
#26 Rise of the Tomb Raider [Xbone]
#274 Rise of the Tomb Raider [X360]

Hardware:
#15 PS4 1TB Blops3 LE $430
#18 PS4 Uncharted $350
#24 PS4 Battlefront LE $400
#25 PS4 Battlefront $350
#31 Xbone 1TB Fallout4 $400
#40 Xbone Gears $329
#59 Xbone 1TB Madden $386
#65 Xbone 1TB holiday bundle $395

Just a reminder :

PS4 BF LE was 26 in October and 16 in September.

 

[EventHorizon]

I tend to think that instead of viewing the console market as "shrinking" (as defined by total number of hardware units sold), I think the industry is going through massive consolidation this generation, but the active userbase isn't necessarily decreasing. And this goes for hardware as well as software.

What I mean by consolidation is that it was a lot more common last generation to own multiple consoles. As the core demographic begins to age, there's less time in general to devote to multiple devices. So we're seeing right now that many are opting just to get a PS4 as their main console, to the detriment of competitors. Whereas, in the past it may have been far more likely to own all three systems.

I totally agree. Another factor pushing consolidation is that both the XB1 and PS4 now require a paid subscription to play online. That drives up the the cost of owning a second console making it less likely.

Another thing to think about that totally demolishes the idea that consoles are shrinking is the simple fact that this is the first generation where the price of consoles haven't been subsidized. I'm on mobile and don't have the calculations in front of me, but I've previously calculated that if the PS4 had been subsidized at last generation levels, it would have launched with a price of something like $290 dollars. Likewise the XB1 would have been substantially less. At those prices the sales of both would have been significantly more.

In summary what this means is that between the requirement for both consoles to have a subscription and the lack of subsidies, this generation is relatively more expensive than last. It is simple economics to note that as costs go up, sales go down. However what this means is that as prices come down there will be more customers to pick up.

 

[AniHawk]

i don't really follow handheld's but obviously that market is dying. playstation consoles has been the only console doing really well 3 out 4 generations now so thats nothing new. everybody has there point of view but the console market is dominated by the playstation brand now, they fucked up bad with ps3 much worse then wiiu but the brand is so strong they recovered. nintendo fans think nintendo messed up with the wiiu but in reality it was always gonna be this way, nintendo consoles have been in decline since the super new era. bearing another miracle like the motion controls i don't see another nintendo console being successful.

so there are two things to consider when looking at a platform: internal factors (what the company itself is doing) and external factors (what the general trends are). nintendo made just about every wrong decision they could have internally with the wii u, from unappealing software to a confusing name, a high price, and a novelty that was outdated at launch. sony similarly misread the market with the vita, which really found any kind of success in japan where handhelds dominate the remnants of the dedicated market.

external factors would be those trends. like the wii and ds didn't exactly exist in a bubble. i think the music/rhythm craze that started in 2005 served as a precursor to wii sports, wii fit, kinect, etc. this is where you have to think about who are these people and where did they come from? because really it's not just one group. you're looking at women, older adults, people who had stopped gaming when it became too complex for them, and elsewhere around the world... japanese folks to be honest. you also have to consider what was appealing about these games and i guarantee you it wasn't motion controls. this is the biggest problem in these conversations because it wasn't so much motion controls, but what motion controls allowed. the wii fit board for example, wasn't really a motion controller, but what it allowed was for people to easily understand and use the software, which they saw as a benefit to their life in some way. the same is true with the ds and brain age. but other people saw utility in games that brought the family together, or were novel fun in general.

now last gen in particular was the biggest generation for every company in the market. sony sold more hardware than they ever did before, so did microsoft and so did nintendo. and going from the ps2 era to the ds era to the ps4 era, it looks very much like it was the peak in the industry. so who left, and why? well the easy answer is that they went to mobile and they're never coming back. i think it's partially true (i don't know about the never coming back part), but let's focus on the mobile market for a bit. what does it offer? well phones and tablets aren't inexpensive. neither was the kinect or the wii to be honest, but they had value outside of being just a games machine, which is what made them so popular. phones and tablets also have games that are readily accessible through digital stores as well. to top it off, a lot of these games are pretty cheap or even free. it replaces what was so useful about a handheld for a lot of people. it also replaces what was necessary about kinect or wii. you don't need a fitness game when a fitness app can do all that work without you needing an extra machine. the huge success of tablets and phones has displaced games at least at the targets i've been to, and even worked their way into gamestops near me. it used to be that video games were near the register. now they're closer to the blu ray section, with mobile devices acting like a buffer. this tells me something about the success about mobile, and also its direct effects on visibility for dedicated gaming machines.

the situation here isn't dire yet. there's still room for a comeback, or even to appease these people again, but software needs to start coming out once more that gives them something they didn't have before. that was always the key to the success in this market, and i think the last gasp at this was the now-in-decline toys-to-life market (although amiibo have found success for at least the time being). it means being creative with hardware and games. it might be gimmicky, but gimmicks can also inspire game creators to do neat things. the dual screen in the ds was largely used for maps - something that was mocked early but turned out quite useful, but then you had a guy actually use two screens to help tell his story in 999. more variety leads to a wider breadth of ideas and in turn gets more and more people interested. i think a large part of what made last gen so popular in general (every single platform outsold the gba), was that you didn't have just nintendo's new market in the mix just for them, but pretty much everyone was making games for all platforms. it allowed for everyone to have success here.

other external forces would be what third-parties are doing. third-parties are really of two ways at the moment. you're either making a game for ps4/xb1/steam, or you're heavy into mobile. and then some are making games for nintendo platforms and basically japanese. what's happening here is there are fewer games than before, leading to less variety, etc etc. it's necessary with the trend of ever-increasing game costs that resources can't be pulled and used to make smaller games. media.molecule did that with their magnum opus, tearaway, and it reached a scant number of people (although i think a large part of it has to do with the sony fanbase staying far away from kids games, or so its seems). it can't be just a couple of games. there need to be entire publishers or at least several development teams per publisher devoted to making games for families or kids or stuff that's more middle-tier. without it and you lose that more mainstream fanbase that had your back even a few years ago. i think this is a large part of what led to the decline for halo 5 and assassin's creed syndicate, in addition to their buggy predecessors.

for me, the big platform is steam. valve is essentially a new first-party and a really important one in the last five years or so. steam had been a way to buy games for pc, but it's really turned into something else. it popularized humble bundles, digital sales on a quarterly (or more) basis, encourages communities, and put everything on a level playing field. you can go into a store and buy shovel knight largely because it was successful digitally. but in the dedicate space, getting on shelves is 'making it'. at that point, you've reached a certain level of success and can stick around with the big boys. on steam, everything is equal just by them all being digital all the time. where something like neptunia or trails of the sky might be ignored at retail, it can reach over 100,000 owners on steam. it's also where surprises for the enthusiast market happen with more regularity these days. i know it's $10, but could you imagine something like undertale actually taking off on a console as a retail release? the limits there are now so constricting that it makes success nearly impossible for those striking out on something new and quirky.

steam also represents to me a lot of what mobile does. it's accessible, cheap, and easy to understand. it's more than the traditional pc market, which has been around for 30 years, and it's been getting bigger all the time. this is another external factor that we've seen had an effect on dedicated hardware. since steam started their holiday sales in 2009, we've seen similar activity on psn, xbl, and eshop. humble bundles have appeared outside of steam as well now. publishers in japan are looking to steam even if it isn't popular in japan. koei tecmo, bandai namco, sega, and even small fries like falcom, idea factory, and nippon ichi are interested in the platform. these guys can stick around in the dedicated market too, but as i mentioned before, this is more about creating a breadth of users, which is starting to happen more than ever.

finally and probably the biggest effect of digital on platform holders is their desire to move to digital. microsoft seemed to want a digital only platform with the xbox one, and came up with an asinine way to also have retail games on their machine. so the xbox one initially was microsoft trying to have their cake and eat it too. sony's been super impressive with flash sales since 2013 and has also been consistent with holiday sales. in addition, they created playstation now, which to me sounds more like a testing ground for a sort of purely digital home. like with vr, i don't think it's going to take off until someone gets behind the concept fully and makes it the main thrust of their platform. and nintendo is doing something similar with android and ios with nx, providing multiple form factors that plays largely the same library (which is the leading theory for now at least). all of this on top of third-parties also trying to set up their own platforms like valve did, or at least exclusive programs. you have uplay with ubisoft, ea with ea access and origin, warner bros. with wb play, and square-enix with their own thing, bethesda with their own thing, etc etc. when you have third-parties and first-parties alike planning for a world without dedicated consoles the way they are now, you have to wonder where their commitments really are in the long term.

which brings me back to the original point. no, dedicated hardware isn't dying. if that was the case, we'd be below gen 5 and everything would be doing terrible. there's still room for several 10-million sellers this gen, and big hits like destiny, or even smaller surprise hits like shovel knight and splatoon. however, it's definitely getting smaller. it's not just one or two things that led it to this point either, and i don't know how things are going to go back to where they were, because i don't see anything that can reverse the trend.

 

[StrongBlackVine]

so there are two things to consider when looking at a platform: internal factors (what the company itself is doing) and external factors (what the general trends are). nintendo made just about every wrong decision they could have internally with the wii u, from unappealing software to a confusing name, a high price, and a novelty that was outdated at launch. sony similarly misread the market with the vita, which really found any kind of success in japan where handhelds dominate the remnants of the dedicated market.

external factors would be those trends. like the wii and ds didn't exactly exist in a bubble. i think the music/rhythm craze that started in 2005 served as a precursor to wii sports, wii fit, kinect, etc. this is where you have to think about who are these people and where did they come from? because really it's not just one group. you're looking at women, older adults, people who had stopped gaming when it became too complex for them, and elsewhere around the world... japanese folks to be honest. you also have to consider what was appealing about these games and i guarantee you it wasn't motion controls. this is the biggest problem in these conversations because it wasn't so much motion controls, but what motion controls allowed. the wii fit board for example, wasn't really a motion controller, but what it allowed was for people to easily understand and use the software, which they saw as a benefit to their life in some way. the same is true with the ds and brain age. but other people saw utility in games that brought the family together, or were novel fun in general.

now last gen in particular was the biggest generation for every company in the market. sony sold more hardware than they ever did before, so did microsoft and so did nintendo. and going from the ps2 era to the ds era to the ps4 era, it looks very much like it was the peak in the industry. so who left, and why? well the easy answer is that they went to mobile and they're never coming back. i think it's partially true (i don't know about the never coming back part), but let's focus on the mobile market for a bit. what does it offer? well phones and tablets aren't inexpensive. neither was the kinect or the wii to be honest, but they had value outside of being just a games machine, which is what made them so popular. phones and tablets also have games that are readily accessible through digital stores as well. to top it off, a lot of these games are pretty cheap or even free. it replaces what was so useful about a handheld for a lot of people. it also replaces what was necessary about kinect or wii. you don't need a fitness game when a fitness app can do all that work without you needing an extra machine. the huge success of tablets and phones has displaced games at least at the targets i've been to, and even worked their way into gamestops near me. it used to be that video games were near the register. now they're closer to the blu ray section, with mobile devices acting like a buffer. this tells me something about the success about mobile, and also its direct effects on visibility for dedicated gaming machines.

the situation here isn't dire yet. there's still room for a comeback, or even to appease these people again, but software needs to start coming out once more that gives them something they didn't have before. that was always the key to the success in this market, and i think the last gasp at this was the now-in-decline toys-to-life market (although amiibo have found success for at least the time being). it means being creative with hardware and games. it might be gimmicky, but gimmicks can also inspire game creators to do neat things. the dual screen in the ds was largely used for maps - something that was mocked early but turned out quite useful, but then you had a guy actually use two screens to help tell his story in 999. more variety leads to a wider breadth of ideas and in turn gets more and more people interested. i think a large part of what made last gen so popular in general (every single platform outsold the gba), was that you didn't have just nintendo's new market in the mix just for them, but pretty much everyone was making games for all platforms. it allowed for everyone to have success here.

other external forces would be what third-parties are doing. third-parties are really of two ways at the moment. you're either making a game for ps4/xb1/steam, or you're heavy into mobile. and then some are making games for nintendo platforms and basically japanese. what's happening here is there are fewer games than before, leading to less variety, etc etc. it's necessary with the trend of ever-increasing game costs that resources can't be pulled and used to make smaller games. media.molecule did that with their magnum opus, tearaway, and it reached a scant number of people (although i think a large part of it has to do with the sony fanbase staying far away from kids games, or so its seems). it can't be just a couple of games. there need to be entire publishers or at least several development teams per publisher devoted to making games for families or kids or stuff that's more middle-tier. without it and you lose that more mainstream fanbase that had your back even a few years ago. i think this is a large part of what led to the decline for halo 5 and assassin's creed syndicate, in addition to their buggy predecessors.

for me, the big platform is steam. valve is essentially a new first-party and a really important one in the last five years or so. steam had been a way to buy games for pc, but it's really turned into something else. it popularized humble bundles, digital sales on a quarterly (or more) basis, encourages communities, and put everything on a level playing field. you can go into a store and buy shovel knight largely because it was successful digitally. but in the dedicate space, getting on shelves is 'making it'. at that point, you've reached a certain level of success and can stick around with the big boys. on steam, everything is equal just by them all being digital all the time. where something like neptunia or trails of the sky might be ignored at retail, it can reach over 100,000 owners on steam. it's also where surprises for the enthusiast market happen with more regularity these days. i know it's $10, but could you imagine something like undertale actually taking off on a console as a retail release? the limits there are now so constricting that it makes success nearly impossible for those striking out on something new and quirky.

steam also represents to me a lot of what mobile does. it's accessible, cheap, and easy to understand. it's more than the traditional pc market, which has been around for 30 years, and it's been getting bigger all the time. this is another external factor that we've seen had an effect on dedicated hardware. since steam started their holiday sales in 2009, we've seen similar activity on psn, xbl, and eshop. humble bundles have appeared outside of steam as well now. publishers in japan are looking to steam even if it isn't popular in japan. koei tecmo, bandai namco, sega, and even small fries like falcom, idea factory, and nippon ichi are interested in the platform. these guys can stick around in the dedicated market too, but as i mentioned before, this is more about creating a breadth of users, which is starting to happen more than ever.

finally and probably the biggest effect of digital on platform holders is their desire to move to digital. microsoft seemed to want a digital only platform with the xbox one, and came up with an asinine way to also have retail games on their machine. so the xbox one initially was microsoft trying to have their cake and eat it too. sony's been super impressive with flash sales since 2013 and has also been consistent with holiday sales. in addition, they created playstation now, which to me sounds more like a testing ground for a sort of purely digital home. like with vr, i don't think it's going to take off until someone gets behind the concept fully and makes it the main thrust of their platform. and nintendo is doing something similar with android and ios with nx, providing multiple form factors that plays largely the same library (which is the leading theory for now at least). all of this on top of third-parties also trying to set up their own platforms like valve did, or at least exclusive programs. you have uplay with ubisoft, ea with ea access and origin, warner bros. with wb play, and square-enix with their own thing, bethesda with their own thing, etc etc. when you have third-parties and first-parties alike planning for a world without dedicated consoles the way they are now, you have to wonder where their commitments really are in the long term.

which brings me back to the original point. no, dedicated hardware isn't dying. if that was the case, we'd be below gen 5 and everything would be doing terrible. there's still room for several 10-million sellers this gen, and big hits like destiny, or even smaller surprise hits like shovel knight and splatoon. however, it's definitely getting smaller. it's not just one or two things that led it to this point either, and i don't know how things are going to go back to where they were, because i don't see anything that can reverse the trend.

This is basically unreadable.

 

[AniHawk]

This is basically unreadable.

then the day is mine

 

[DieH@rd]

Just a reminder :

PS4 BF LE was 26 in October and 16 in September.

Thanks, added.

 

[gundamkyoukai]

other external forces would be what third-parties are doing. third-parties are really of two ways at the moment. you're either making a game for ps4/xb1/steam, or you're heavy into mobile. and then some are making games for nintendo platforms and basically japanese. what's happening here is there are fewer games than before, leading to less variety, etc etc. it's necessary with the trend of ever-increasing game costs that resources can't be pulled and used to make smaller games. media.molecule did that with their magnum opus, tearaway, and it reached a scant number of people (although i think a large part of it has to do with the sony fanbase staying far away from kids games, or so its seems). it can't be just a couple of games. there need to be entire publishers or at least several development teams per publisher devoted to making games for families or kids or stuff that's more middle-tier. without it and you lose that more mainstream fanbase that had your back even a few years ago. i think this is a large part of what led to the decline for halo 5 and assassin's creed syndicate, in addition to their buggy predecessors.

Where is the proof that sony fanbase stays aways from kids games ?(guess that would also depend on what you call a kids games)
Also we have more variety than before when it comes to games .
The problem is the variety is not in the retail space .
Which is to be expected no one is going to bring out certain games in the retail space anymore .

Also i read you post but man it was hard to read lol.
There other things i disagree with but that for another time .

 

[slavesnyder]

The problem is the variety is not in the retail space .

Misread your post.
Retail shelf space for games is shrinking. Also, it has to share with toys to life and stuff. On top, retailers avoid risks and focus on ordering AAA. Smaller games don't get retail releases because people buy them digitally and retailers see no use in offering stuff that causes more work than revenue.
Variety loses.

 

[Baroquemantic]

Here was last year:

1.) Call of Duty: Advanced Warfare (360, XBO, PS4, PS3, PC)
2.) Grand Theft Auto V (PS4, XBO, 360, PS3)
3.) Super Smash Bros. (NWU, 3DS)
4.) Madden NFL 15 (360, XBO, PS4, PS3)
5.) Assassin's Creed: Unity (PS4, XBO, PC)
6.) Pokemon Alpha Sapphire (3DS)
7.) Far Cry 4 (PS4, XBO, 360, PS3, PC)
8.) Pokemon Omega Ruby (3DS)
9.) NBA 2K15 (PS4, 360, XBO, PS3, PC)
10.) Halo: The Master Chief Collection (XBO) <- This was slightly above 660K

So if you feel a game won't sell 660K in the month, it probably won't make it, though given what's out this year it's not unreasonable for the low bar to be higher.

It appears I've

Spoiler

maybe

made a huge mistake. D:

But I shall remain strong in these trying times! My avatar shall prevail!

 

[EventHorizon]

which brings me back to the original point. no, dedicated hardware isn't dying. if that was the case, we'd be below gen 5 and everything would be doing terrible. there's still room for several 10-million sellers this gen, and big hits like destiny, or even smaller surprise hits like shovel knight and splatoon. however, it's definitely getting smaller. it's not just one or two things that led it to this point either, and i don't know how things are going to go back to where they were, because i don't see anything that can reverse the trend.

As I pointed out above, this generation is the first one without subsidies. A launch PS4 at $290 would sell a lot more than a PS4 at $399. Any sales comparisons between this generation and the last that doesn't take into account subsidies is going to be flawed.

 

[DeepEnigma]

As I pointed out above, this generation is the first one without subsidies. A launch PS4 at $290 would sell a lot more than a PS4 at $399. Any sales comparisons between this generation and the last that doesn't take into account subsidies is going to be flawed.

Pretty much. If the PS4 did PS2 aggressive price cuts, it would be very close I think. More so if 2016 has the gaming IP content we are hoping it will.

 

[Mpl90]

I tend to think that instead of viewing the console market as "shrinking" (as defined by total number of hardware units sold), I think the industry is going through massive consolidation this generation, but the active userbase isn't necessarily decreasing. And this goes for hardware as well as software.

What I mean by consolidation is that it was a lot more common last generation to own multiple consoles. As the core demographic begins to age, there's less time in general to devote to multiple devices. So we're seeing right now that many are opting just to get a PS4 as their main console, to the detriment of competitors. Whereas, in the past it may have been far more likely to own all three systems.

In one space, you have Nintendo which has basically relinquished control of the casual market to mobile, and similarly (but not nearly as much) the Xbox One has lost every single territory they once had. I think Halo 5's lack of success is in large part something that has to hugely concern Microsoft even though they'll remain relevant in a few large regions -- there's very little to differentiate the Xbox One from the PS4. There's no standout set of exclusives that gravitates people towards their platform anymore.

A big failing of theirs is resting on their laurels and key franchises, many of which have never been wildly popular and are now encountering a large decline. Microsoft should have used the console transition to innovate and develop new IPs, but they're doubling down on their core audience which is shrinking. Destiny is basically the new Halo, and they decided to let go of Bungie which was a big, big mistake since they wanted them to turn into a Halo factory rather than allowing them to innovate and expand.

I think Sony has the right approach with their first party studios -- in general, let them do what they want EVEN if it means that you sometimes fail. Sure, Sony Santa Monica had a huge project canned after a few years of work. Millions of dollars wasted. On the other token, Naughty Dog took a risk with The Last of Us and it was hugely popular. I think as a platform holder you have to be willing to take those risks in order to re-excite the core audience. Microsoft has simply failed to do that.

Multiplatform titles have taken over, and Sony has seemingly secured that market with strategic partnerships on nearly all major titles. Their first party initiatives are icing on the cake, and the consumer has followed towards the PS4 platform while Microsoft isn't really presenting a quality case for why this consumer should also buy an Xbox One. Sony managed to make a decent comeback in the US despite a horrible start with the PS3 due in large part to making a compelling case for the consumer to ALSO buy a PS3, and I feel Microsoft should adopt this strategy but there's no evidence that they currently are.

The same consolidation is happening in the software space. Slip up once and you have a title like AC:S that bombs at retail. Meanwhile, Fallout 4 ships 12 million in its first week. Absolutely ridiculous numbers. There's clearly TONS of active core users, but they are all vying for limited time across fewer titles that feature TONS of hours of playtime.

So it's really difficult to quantify a "shrinking market".

I don't say your theory about console sales is completely wrong: the consolidation is a factor, especially when you consider how both PS4 and Xbox One require a subscription to play online, which means that there won't be that many users who will pay two subscriptions simultaneously in order to play with their friends across all US.

But, despite that, PS4 is not a very good leading console in US (and I specifiy: in US). It had huge launch months, massive sales, but, since then, there have been several months that could perfectly be considered "mediocre" for a console that is supposed to be the one that leads the entire market (while good numbers for a console per se). It's not compensating for (partial) Microsoft's and (total) Nintendo's failures in the home space, or not compensating well enough, if you prefer.

And, this month, sales went down despite the price cut which wasn't expected to have such a huge impact anyway, but I wasn't surely expecting sales to be slightly down from 2014's either. I don't deny the wait for Holidays deals can be a factor, since people is more and better informed these days (earlier in this thread, I was discussing about this specific year's deals affecting October's sales, saying people didn't even know about them; I wasn't doubting people could be waiting for sales anyway, without knowing them, due to now being used to see sales, I wanted to clarify), but PS4 had some releases (some of them important in theory) and a small, but not invisible price cut this month, and its sales still decreased YOY.

 

[AniHawk]

Where is the proof that sony fanbase stays aways from kids games ?
Also we have more variety than before when it comes to games .
The problem is the variety is not in the retail space .
Which is to be expected no one is going to bring out certain games in the retail space anymore .

Also i read you post but man it was hard to read .
There other things i disagree with but that for another time .

oh, just going back through recent results and finding the trend in what sells best where:

september 2015:
Disney Infinity 3.0 (360, Wii U, Xbox One, PS4, PS3)
Minecraft (360, PS3, Xbox One, PS4)

august 2015:
Minecraft (360, PS3, Xbox One, PS4)
Lego: Jurassic World (360, 3DS, Wii U, PS3, Xbox One, PS4, Vita)

july 2015:
Lego: Jurassic World (360, 3DS, PS3, Xbox One, Wii U, PS4, Vita)
Minecraft (360, PS3, Xbox One, PS4)

june 2015:
Lego: Jurassic World (360, Xbox One, PS4, PS3, 3DS, Wii U, Vita)

may 2015:
Minecraft (360, PS3, Xbox One, PS4)

april 2015:
Minecraft (360, PS3, Xbox One, PS4)

march 2015:
Minecraft (360, PS3, Xbox One, PS4)

february 2015:
Minecraft (360, PS3, Xbox One, PS4)

january 2015:
Minecraft (360, PS3, Xbox One, PS4)

december 2014:
Minecraft (360, PS3, Xbox One, PS4)

october 2014:
Skylanders: Trap Team (360, Wii, Wii U, PS3, Xbox One, PS4, 3DS, mobile)
Minecraft (360, PS3, PS4)

september 2014:
Disney Infinity 2.0 (360, PS3, NWU, PS4, XBO)

august 2014:
Lego Marvel Super Heroes (360, PS3, Wii U, PS4, 3DS, DS, Xbox One, Vita, PC)
The Lego Movie Videogame (360, 3DS, PS3, Wii U, PS4, Xbox One, Vita)

july 2014:
Lego Marvel Super Heroes (360, PS3, 3DS, DS, PS4, Wii U, Xbox One, Vita, PC)

april 2014:
Lego The Hobbit (360, PS3, Xbox One, PS4, 3DS, NWU, PSV)
The Lego Movie Videogame (360, 3DS, PS3, Wii U, Xbox One, PS4, Vita)
Lego Marvel Super Heroes (360, PS3, NDS, 3DS, PS4, NWU, Xbox One, Vita, PC)

march 2014:
The Lego Movie Videogame (360, PS3, 3DS, Wii U, Xbox One, PS4, Vita)

february 2014:
The Lego Movie Videogame (360, PS3, 3DS, Wii U, Xbox One, PS4, Vita)

january 2014:
Lego Marvel Super Heroes (360, Xbox One, PS3, PS4, 3DS, NWU, Vita, PC)

december 2013:
Lego Marvel Super Heroes (360, PS3, 3DS, Xbox One, PS4, NWU, Vita, PC)
Skylanders SWAP Force (Wii, 360, PS3, NWU, 3DS, XBO, PS4)

november 2013:
Skylanders SWAP Force (Wii, 360, PS3, NWU, 3DS, XBO, PS4)

the 360 or wii were the best in their weight class since there were more of them than any other platform and families like to get inexpensive platforms since there won't be a ton of games bought for their kids. the newer platforms are decided on how the userbase was grown.

this is on top of no real verifiable success in this kind of game for the ps4 or really any sony system outside of knack and i guess minecraft ps3 for the last two or three years. lbp3 underperformed, everything on vita bombed, tearaway ps4 bombed, sly 4 underperformed, puppeteer bombed, etc.

 

[AniHawk]

As I pointed out above, this generation is the first one without subsidies. A launch PS4 at $290 would sell a lot more than a PS4 at $399. Any sales comparisons between this generation and the last that doesn't take into account subsidies is going to be flawed.

which is really something that's kind of on the platform holder, isn't it? there's nothing that said the ps4 needed to be a $400 machine. that was an internal factor that decided where parts of the market would go this generation.

 

[igordennis]

Anihawk man why dont you use capital letters? You make really good posts but its annoying and like he said kind of unreadable for the longer ones.

 

[gundamkyoukai]

oh, just going back through recent results and finding the trend in what sells best where:

september 2015:
Disney Infinity 3.0 (360, Wii U, Xbox One, PS4, PS3)
Minecraft (360, PS3, Xbox One, PS4)

august 2015:
Minecraft (360, PS3, Xbox One, PS4)
Lego: Jurassic World (360, 3DS, Wii U, PS3, Xbox One, PS4, Vita)

june 2015:
Lego: Jurassic World (360, Xbox One, PS4, PS3, 3DS, Wii U, Vita)

july 2015:
Lego: Jurassic World (360, 3DS, PS3, Xbox One, Wii U, PS4, Vita)
Minecraft (360, PS3, Xbox One, PS4)

may 2015:
Minecraft (360, PS3, Xbox One, PS4)

april 2015:
Minecraft (360, PS3, Xbox One, PS4)

march 2015:
Minecraft (360, PS3, Xbox One, PS4)

february 2015:
Minecraft (360, PS3, Xbox One, PS4)

january 2015:
Minecraft (360, PS3, Xbox One, PS4)

december 2014:
Minecraft (360, PS3, Xbox One, PS4)

october 2014:
Skylanders: Trap Team (360, Wii, Wii U, PS3, Xbox One, PS4, 3DS, mobile)
Minecraft (360, PS3, PS4)

september 2014:
Disney Infinity 2.0 (360, PS3, NWU, PS4, XBO)

august 2014:
Lego Marvel Super Heroes (360, PS3, Wii U, PS4, 3DS, DS, Xbox One, Vita, PC)
The Lego Movie Videogame (360, 3DS, PS3, Wii U, PS4, Xbox One, Vita)

july 2014:
Lego Marvel Super Heroes (360, PS3, 3DS, DS, PS4, Wii U, Xbox One, Vita, PC)

april 2014:
Lego The Hobbit (360, PS3, Xbox One, PS4, 3DS, NWU, PSV)
The Lego Movie Videogame (360, 3DS, PS3, Wii U, Xbox One, PS4, Vita)
Lego Marvel Super Heroes (360, PS3, NDS, 3DS, PS4, NWU, Xbox One, Vita, PC)

march 2014:
The Lego Movie Videogame (360, PS3, 3DS, Wii U, Xbox One, PS4, Vita)

february 2014:
The Lego Movie Videogame (360, PS3, 3DS, Wii U, Xbox One, PS4, Vita)

january 2014:
Lego Marvel Super Heroes (360, Xbox One, PS3, PS4, 3DS, NWU, Vita, PC)

december 2013:
Lego Marvel Super Heroes (360, PS3, 3DS, Xbox One, PS4, NWU, Vita, PC)
Skylanders SWAP Force (Wii, 360, PS3, NWU, 3DS, XBO, PS4)

november 2013:
Skylanders SWAP Force (Wii, 360, PS3, NWU, 3DS, XBO, PS4)

and this is on top of no real verifiable success in this kind of game for the ps4 or really any sony system outside of knack and i guess minecraft ps3 for the last two or three years. lbp3 underperformed, everything on vita bombed, tearaway ps4 bombed, sly 4 underperformed, puppeteer bombed, etc.

If you notice last gen still has the most of the sales for kids games.
So this is not a PS4 problem unless you think XB1 being 4th means a good amount more sales than 5th .
Also all those title you name are platformers which is a dying genre .

 

[Mpl90]

If you notice last gen still has the most of the sales for kids games.
So this is not a PS4 problem unless think XB1 being 4th means a good amount more sales than 5th .
Also all those title you name are platformers which is a dying genre .

What about Wii U, then?

 

[EventHorizon]

And, this month, sales went down despite the price cut which wasn't expected to have such a huge impact anyway, but I wasn't surely expecting sales to be slightly down from 2014's either. I don't deny the wait for Holidays deals can be a factor, since people is more and better informed these days (earlier in this thread, I was discussing about this specific year's deals affecting October's sales, saying people didn't even know about them; I wasn't doubting people could be waiting for sales anyway, without knowing them, due to now being used to see sales, I wanted to clarify), but PS4 had some releases (some of them important in theory) and a small, but not invisible price cut this month, and its sales still decreased YOY.

It's not just that people were waiting for holiday deals, its that the products that they wanted to buy, the Battlefront and CoD bundles, simply couldn't be bought in October. The people who would be swayed by a $50 price cut are obviously cost conscious. If the game and bundle that they really want doesn't come out until the next month then they aren't going to buy a console with some other game included and then pay full price for another game the following month.

 

[DriftingSpirit]

I don't say your theory about console sales is completely wrong: the consolidation is a factor, especially when you consider how both PS4 and Xbox One require a subscription to play online, which means that there won't be that many users who will pay two subscriptions simultaneously in order to play with their friends across all US.

But, despite that, PS4 is not a very good leading console in US (and I specifiy: in US). It had huge launch months, massive sales, but, since then, there have been several months that could perfectly be considered "mediocre" for a console that is supposed to be the one that leads the entire market (while good numbers for a console per se). It's not compensating for (partial) Microsoft's and (total) Nintendo's failures in the home space, or not compensating well enough, if you prefer.

And, this month, sales went down despite the price cut which wasn't expected to have such a huge impact anyway, but I wasn't surely expecting sales to be slightly down from 2014's either. I don't deny the wait for Holidays deals can be a factor, since people is more and better informed these days (earlier in this thread, I was discussing about this specific year's deals affecting October's sales, saying people didn't even know about them; I wasn't doubting people could be waiting for sales anyway, without knowing them, due to now being used to see sales, I wanted to clarify), but PS4 had some releases (some of them important in theory) and a small, but not invisible price cut this month, and its sales still decreased YOY.

If we are to assume this decrease from last year is a result of what may be a huge increase over November of last year, what would be your rough estimate of how much PS4 will do in November? How much would be enough to compensate for the October results in your view?

 

[gundamkyoukai]

What about Wii U, then?

What about it ?
Is it selling more kids games than last gen ?

 

[EventHorizon]

which is really something that's kind of on the platform holder, isn't it? there's nothing that said the ps4 needed to be a $400 machine. that was an internal factor that decided where parts of the market would go this generation.

The platform holders are making A LOT more money than they were last generation. They are happy with their choice.

The point that I am brining up is that if you are going to use past data to predict the future then you have to make sure that you are comparing apples to apples. You have to normalize your data before you compare it. If you don't then there could be trends in your data that don't exist in reality. For example you are trying to make the case that a change in game type composition and mobile sales are leading to reduced PS4 and XB1 sales. Well if any reduction in sales can be attributed to the simple fact that the new consoles are less subsidized then there is no need to come up with another explanation.

 

[SuperSonic1305]

this is on top of no real verifiable success in this kind of game for the ps4 or really any sony system outside of knack and i guess minecraft ps3 for the last two or three years. lbp3 underperformed, everything on vita bombed, tearaway ps4 bombed, sly 4 underperformed, puppeteer bombed, etc.

I thought Sly 4 sold nearly as much if not more than the PS2 games in their first month.

 

[CosmicQueso]

For example you are trying to make the case that a change in game type composition is leading to reduced sales. Well if any reduction in sales can be attributed to the simple fact that the new consoles are less subsidized then there is no need to come up with another explanation.

You might be interested in some numbers I compiled on title count, publisher count, and title count correlation to sales.

 

[AniHawk]

I thought Sly 4 sold nearly as much if not more than the PS2 games in their first month.

maybe. or maybe sly 3. what i can see the games either had great legs on ps2 or interest dropped off severely from a lack of games in the franchise between 2004 and 2013.

 

[Game Guru]

If you notice last gen still has the most of the sales for kids games.
So this is not a PS4 problem unless you think XB1 being 4th means a good amount more sales than 5th .
Also all those title you name are platformers which is a dying genre .

I wouldn't call platformers a dying genre... I would call it a genre that benefits immensely from digital. Why should people buy LittleBigPlanet or Tearaway at $40 to $60 when they could buy Shovel Knight or Freedom Planet for $15 or Axiom Verge or Shantae & The Pirate's Curse for $20? Only Nintendo can realistically charge $40 to $60 for a platformer nowadays because they have the pedigree for making awesome platformers.

What about Wii U, then?

I would assume any kids who are, in fact, interested in playing current-gen consoles and not playing F2P games on mobile would also want to play Mario who is exclusive to the Wii U in the realm of consoles.

 

[AniHawk]

The platform holders are making A LOT more money than they were last generation. They are happy with their choice.

The point that I am brining up is that if you are going to use past data to predict the future then you have to make sure that you are comparing apples to apples. You have to normalize your data before you compare it. If you don't then there could be trends in your data that don't exist in reality. For example you are trying to make the case that a change in game type composition and mobile sales are leading to reduced PS4 and XB1 sales. Well if any reduction in sales can be attributed to the simple fact that the new consoles are less subsidized then there is no need to come up with another explanation.

well sony's making a lot more money which is basically a given. they would have needed to try in order to waste more dollars than they did last gen. maybe microsoft's doing better launch-aligned, but i get this feeling that things are going to start falling behind for them soon. of course i don't know how many billions they'll spend on xbox one to be honest. i think they ran it up to two with the 360 including the launch of the platform, the red rings, and the kinect launch all by themselves. they might be more like nintendo and content to turn a profit and lick their wounds in preparation for next gen.

but mobile isn't the main contributing factor to reduced sales. i am saying it's a contribution. i think that it's more of a combination of people getting their games through mobile but also on steam and other digital platforms. steam is sort of the mobile device for the enthusiast gamer.

 

[James Sawyer Ford]

I don't say your theory about console sales is completely wrong: the consolidation is a factor, especially when you consider how both PS4 and Xbox One require a subscription to play online, which means that there won't be that many users who will pay two subscriptions simultaneously in order to play with their friends across all US.

But, despite that, PS4 is not a very good leading console in US (and I specifiy: in US). It had huge launch months, massive sales, but, since then, there have been several months that could perfectly be considered "mediocre" for a console that is supposed to be the one that leads the entire market (while good numbers for a console per se). It's not compensating for (partial) Microsoft's and (total) Nintendo's failures in the home space, or not compensating well enough, if you prefer.

And, this month, sales went down despite the price cut which wasn't expected to have such a huge impact anyway, but I wasn't surely expecting sales to be slightly down from 2014's either. I don't deny the wait for Holidays deals can be a factor, since people is more and better informed these days (earlier in this thread, I was discussing about this specific year's deals affecting October's sales, saying people didn't even know about them; I wasn't doubting people could be waiting for sales anyway, without knowing them, due to now being used to see sales, I wanted to clarify), but PS4 had some releases (some of them important in theory) and a small, but not invisible price cut this month, and its sales still decreased YOY.

I should clarify that my comments were speaking more broadly in terms of the global market than strictly NA.

But my comments also apply to NA as well, only that the console market is more evenly split between XB1 and PS4, with PS4 having a small but sizable lead. There are a lot of Xbox One consumers that also pick this as their primary console and don't own a PS4 or feel a need to; Sony's first party lineup has been decent, but they haven't really released their heavy hitters yet. Microsoft just released their first one with Halo, and didn't result in any huge push towards the platform.

Again, I don't read too much into the October numbers for either platform. Yes, Halo 5 didn't meet expectations for moving software or hardware. Still, it was up decently YoY. And yes, PS4's price cut didn't manage to increase sales YoY, but there was zero software this month to drive adoption. And last year Destiny still had a bit of an effect. I expect November sales to be very robust, and for Sony it will be substantially up YoY. If Microsoft manages to keep close to 2014 numbers, I think they'll be happy too since they had a good holiday.

 

[EventHorizon]

but mobile isn't the main contributing factor to reduced sales. i am saying it's a contribution. i think that it's more of a combination of people getting their games through mobile but also on steam and other digital platforms. steam is sort of the mobile device for the enthusiast gamer.

I simplified my argument to focus in on subsidies because they are the biggest factor affecting sales for the XB1 and PS4 and nobody was talking about it. Mobile has definitely had an effect on handhelds because the experience is so similar. People will already own a smartphone for reasons outside of gaming so there is little reason to pick up a dedicated gaming device. Also handhelds faced an additional exclusionary pressure. For space reasons, people are less inclined to carry multiple mobile devices. Since a phone is mandatory the handheld had to go. Consoles don't face the same pressure from mobiles. Outside of having the necessary discretionary funds, owning a cell phone does not preclude owning a console. There is no space concern issue and phones can't play the quality of games that console owners expect.

If you really want to spot trends in the industry I suggest that that it isn't one industry at all. I would use this breakdown instead.

• Mobiles devices
• Dedicated handhelds
• PC and web games
• Nintendo consoles
• Xbox and PlayStation

In reality it might be better to just consider mobile devices and dedicated handhelds as the same market. In terms of gaming, mobiles are just the evolution of the handhelds. They simply do a lot more stuff in addition to playing games. PC and web games have consumed the Nintendo audience. Additionally Nintendo's decision to go with lower spec consoles meant that third party titles could not run on them which significantly reduced the number of games available.

What we are seeing with these two trends is that if a platform is not pushing boundaries and focusing in on performance, then its offerings will become a commodity. Once that happens its audience can jump to another platform that offers a better value by providing a similar gaming experience in addition to other functionality. On the other hand the Xbox and PlayStation versions Star Wars Battlefront and Call of Duty can't run on mobiles. They don't have the processing power or the control scheme to accommodate it. Therefore there is no way gamers who want to play those games will view a cell phone as an acceptable alternative to these consoles.

PCs could be a competitor to Xbox and PlayStation but there are fundamental difference between PCs and consoles that keep these audiences separate. Consoles are usually hooked up to a TV in a common area while a PC is hooked up to a monitor in an office or bedroom. Consoles offer a low cost retail purchasing opportunity while PCs either cost significantly more or require them to be built by the gamer. Console users can game online with a controller and not have to worry about being slaughtered by people with keyboards and mice.

These PC/console differences could have protected the Wii U but my guess is that the loss of third party titles and its relatively high cost compared to the Wii reduced its value enough that it wasn't worth it. In addition Nintendo already had a declining sales problem with their consoles that the Wii was able to temporarily mask. If you exclude the Wii, Wii U's sales make perfect sense.

 

[StevieP]

I simplified my argument to focus in on subsidies because there are the biggest factor affecting sales for the XB1 and PS4 and nobody was talking about it. Mobile has definitely had an effect on handhelds because the experience is so similar and people will already own a smartphone for reasons outside of gaming. However the mobile gaming experience and the console gaming experience are not the same and for this reason mobiles don't compete with consoles. If you really want to spot trends in the industry I suggest that that it isn't one industry at all. I would use this breakdown instead.

• Mobiles devices
• Dedicated handhelds
• PC and web games
• Nintendo consoles
• Xbox and PlayStation

In reality it might be better to just consider mobile devices and dedicated handhelds as the same market. In terms of gaming, mobiles are just the evolution of the handhelds. They simply do a lot more stuff in addition to playing games. PC and web games have consumed the Nintendo audience. Additionally Nintendo's decision to go with lower spec consoles meant that third party titles could not run on them which significantly reduced the number of games available.

What we are seeing with these two trends is that if a platform is not pushing boundaries and focusing in on performance, then its offerings will become a commodity. Once that happens its audience can jump to another platform that offers a better value by providing a similar gaming experience in addition to other functionality. On the other hand the Xbox and PlayStation versions Star Wars Battlefront and Call of Duty can't run on mobiles. They don't have the processing power or the control scheme to accommodate it. Therefore there is no way gamers who want to play those games will view a cell phone as an acceptable alternative to these consoles.

PCs could be a competitor to Xbox and PlayStation but there are fundamental difference between PCs and consoles that keep these audiences separate. Consoles are usually hooked up to a TV in a common area while a PC is hooked up to a monitor in an office or bedroom. Consoles offer a low cost retail purchasing opportunity while PCs either cost significantly more or require them to be built by the gamer. Console users can game online with a controller and not have to worry about being slaughtered by people with keyboards and mice.

These PC/console differences could have protected the Wii U but my guess is that the loss of third party titles and its relatively high cost compared to the Wii reduced its value enough that it wasn't worth it. In addition Nintendo already had a declining sales problem with their consoles that the Wii was able to temporarily mask. If you exclude the Wii, Wii U's sales make perfect sense.

Handhelds are part of the dedicated market. And you'd better believe that more and more PCs are replacing consoles (and in the living room as well). The traditional dedicated market is being squeezed from all angles and not just mobile

Pretty much. If the PS4 did PS2 aggressive price cuts, it would be very close I think. More so if 2016 has the gaming IP content we are hoping it will.

The ps4 is almost nothing like the ps2, so price itself isn't the sole determining factor of that success. The ps2 had so much more variety (from a games release AND audience perspective) that they'll never compare.

 

[Sangetsu-II]

Current state of US Amazon sales in november:

Software:
#1 Fallout 4 [PS4]
#2 Fallout 4 [Xbone]
#3 Blops3 [Xbone]
#4 Blops3 [PS4]
#8 Twilight Princess [WiiU]
#10 Battlefront Deluxe [PS4]
#13 Halo 5
#14 Battlefront Deluxe [Xbone]
#16 Battlefront standard [PS4]
#17 MGSV [PS4]
#19 Battlefront standard [Xbone]
#26 Rise of the Tomb Raider [Xbone]
#274 Rise of the Tomb Raider [X360]

Hardware:
#15 PS4 1TB Blops3 LE $430 [#39 in Oct]
#18 PS4 Uncharted $350
#24 PS4 Battlefront LE $400 [#26 in Oct, #16 in Sept]
#25 PS4 Battlefront $350 [#89 in Oct]
#31 Xbone 1TB Fallout4 $400
#40 Xbone Gears $329
#59 Xbone 1TB Madden $386
#65 Xbone 1TB holiday bundle $395

Fixed

 

[dead souls]

The ps4 is almost nothing like the ps2, so price itself isn't the sole determining factor of that success. The ps2 had so much more variety (from a games release AND audience perspective) that they'll never compare.

So true. The PS2 library will probably never be surpassed by another console. It's unreal how good it was.

 

[StevieP]

So true. The PS2 library will probably never be surpassed by another console. It's unreal how good it was.

There will almost assuredly never be 2 dedicated devices with the breadth and amazing variety of software that the ps2 and ds had. Those days are long behind us, and that includes their level of success, which some people have yet to come to grips with.

Edit: I should specify that I mean the traditional dedicated market. Because as soon as you step out of that market now, the breadth and variety is there. As are the market conditions willing to support that.

 

[jhmtehgamr20xx]

But I said this before...if the Wii had continued Nintendo's home console trend instead of bucking it...how bad would the contraction really look.

It'd actually be worst than it is. I'd argue the Wii has helped the Wii U's sales b/c it probably got new core fans to try it out who wouldn't of otherwise (yes it's true; someone who starts off a casual gamer can become a core gamer, and certainly core to brand. It's happened since the inception of gaming).

Without the Wii the Wii U would likely of definitely been below 9 million as of today, sold-through.

So true. The PS2 library will probably never be surpassed by another console. It's unreal how good it was.

Meh. I personally prefer the libraries of SNES, Genesis/Megadrive and PS1, but PS2's is quite quality too. Theoretically I'd say Saturn and Dreamcast's are up there, but I don't have a lot of direct personal experience with their libarary to say from an anecdotal POV.

I think a good deal of the better/more unique exclusives for 6th gen definitely went to Dreamcast, Xbox and Gamecube however.

Handhelds are part of the dedicated market. And you'd better believe that more and more PCs are replacing consoles (and in the living room as well). The traditional dedicated market is being squeezed from all angles and not just mobile



The ps4 is almost nothing like the ps2, so price itself isn't the sole determining factor of that success. The ps2 had so much more variety (from a games release AND audience perspective) that they'll never compare.

Are you looking at this from a mid-tier POV? The mid-tier games are there on PS4; they just usually aren't retail.

Or is this looking at it from an East/West POV? The Japanese game industry isn't as strong on consoles anymore compared to the PS2 days, sure, but most of those types of games are still being made today. It's not like the shift from 16-bit to 32-bit where we say actual massive contractions of certain genres on at least the other bigger consoles aside from Saturn, and it taking more than a decade for those games to come back into favor.

Granted there's a very Japanese flavor missing from many of the Western releases today that otherwise fixate themselves within those genre stylings (a flavor I tend to prefer in most cases; for example I find the humor in most Western indie games to be too self-aware and pretentious, and sometimes even completely off-putting), but those genres themselves (aside from a few) have seen the slack picked up by Western devs over the past decade, both retail and digital, both AAA and indie.

So no, I don't see this as an opinion I can be in agreement with, for the reasons listed. In any case PS2 is certainly much closer to PS2 than PS1, although sales-wise it's going to be more of the opposite (even w/ VR, barring VR is absolutely massive, which it could be. But we'll see).

 

[Shenmue]

Meh. I personally prefer the libraries of SNES, Genesis/Megadrive and PS1, but PS2's is quite quality too. Theoretically I'd say Saturn and Dreamcast's are up there, but I don't have a lot of direct personal experience with their libarary to say from an anecdotal POV.

I think a good deal of the better/more unique exclusives for 6th gen definitely went to Dreamcast, Xbox and Gamecube however.

Outside of Shenmue nothing beat Ico and SotC for me on any other console. Not even close.

 

[donny2112]

Few people want to know how the sausage is actually made. They just want to live in their ignorance and preconceived notions of what reality is. It's comfortable. Take them out of that comfort and they either want to go back to it as quickly as possible or lash out at those trying to take them away from it.

 

[VinFTW]

So...

about those Halo 5 sales

 

[QuikNez]

Here's a question... if November sales come in markedly lower like October... what does this signal for the console market?

• Market saturation
• Market shrinkage (could be from competition, Steam, Phones, etc.)
• Indication of a possible recession - change in consumer spending habits
• Regular market behavior and a short-term trough
• Likely a combination of factors above and otherwise
• Nothing at all, stay patient

 

[gundamkyoukai]

Meh. I personally prefer the libraries of SNES, Genesis/Megadrive and PS1, but PS2's is quite quality too. Theoretically I'd say Saturn and Dreamcast's are up there, but I don't have a lot of direct personal experience with their libarary to say from an anecdotal POV.

I think a good deal of the better/more unique exclusives for 6th gen definitely went to Dreamcast, Xbox and Gamecube however.

I agree the PS2 library was good but PS1 library was just as good.
In fact i will say by the end of the gen the PS4 library will be just as good and have the same amount of variety as Ps1 and PS2 .

The ps4 is almost nothing like the ps2, so price itself isn't the sole determining factor of that success. The ps2 had so much more variety (from a games release AND audience perspective) that they'll never compare.

The PS4 is only 2 years old by end of this gen it was have just as much variety .

 

[graywolf323]

Here's a question... if November sales come in markedly lower like October... what does this signal for the console market?

• Market saturation
• Market shrinkage (could be from competition, Steam, Phones, etc.)
• Indication of a possible recession - change in consumer spending habits
• Regular market behavior and a short-term trough
• Likely a combination of factors above and otherwise
• Nothing at all, stay patient

what are the odds of that happening? would seem really unlikely

 

[creamsugar]

 

[gundamkyoukai]

Cream you show up .
It's good to see you and your pies .

 

[Elandyll]

Welcome back Cream

Pies are always appreciated!

 

[Dash_Riprock]

I thought you were either dead or on vacation.

 

[boredandlazy]

Thanks cream. Much appreciated.

 

[DeepEnigma]

The ps4 is almost nothing like the ps2, so price itself isn't the sole determining factor of that success. The ps2 had so much more variety (from a games release AND audience perspective) that they'll never compare.

And two years in to the PS2 is not really much different than the PS4 so far.

If you want to count just AAA, sure, for now, but their pipeline looks to have the same risks/variety. Something you are having the nostalgia of the overall 8-10 year library cloud what was the first two years of the PS2.

It is also a new gaming era with Indie style games offer that very same trend the PS2 had for variety, IMO. Which is much better quality per dollar compared to the shovelware that filled in the gaps of consoles in the past.

 

[DriftingSpirit]

Here's a question... if November sales come in markedly lower like October... what does this signal for the console market?

• Market saturation
• Market shrinkage (could be from competition, Steam, Phones, etc.)
• Indication of a possible recession - change in consumer spending habits
• Regular market behavior and a short-term trough
• Likely a combination of factors above and otherwise
• Nothing at all, stay patient

I would honestly be shocked if November was lower than last November. Sony didn't have any of these big third party titles, they only got going around Black Friday and their closest competitor was cheaper.

They have CoD and Battlefront bundles, pre orders for those bundles in previous months, Fallout 4 to help push consoles, $50 price cut, price parity with competition and $299 bundles on Black Friday.

If all this cannot put the PS4 considerably over last November, I would have to join the "consoles are doomed!" squad. At least in US anyway.

 

[creamsugar]

Halo5 bundle < Uncharted bundle

 

[Tommy DJ]

Halo5 bundle < Uncharted bundle

Goddamn, Halo 5 getting bodied this NPD

 

[malfcn]

It might not be the most impressive month, but it's still a win. I think the line ups, price drops, deals and conditioning from last season is effecting sales. Buyers either got in last year, or are waiting to see how crazy things may get this holiday.

 

[Welfare]

Halo5 bundle < Uncharted bundle

Hey Vin