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Nintendo majorly retconned the events of Zelda Majora's Mask recently
- Thread starter Crossing Eden
- Start date
Dangansona
Member
Lol the immediate post following my first comment in this thread:
Was:
Nintendo does care to some degree and if this thread isn't evidence enough there are some fans who find the game connections neat.
Was:
Nintendo does care to some degree and if this thread isn't evidence enough there are some fans who find the game connections neat.
stan423321
Member
There aren't major plot contradictions but they didn't avoid tiny retcons. The particular issue that involves OoT, MC and SS is Link's traditional hat. OoT sort of blames it on Kokiri dressing like they do without caring too much - one could later Links reusing such hats out of tradition but it could start earlier. MC released later, while being put earlier in timeline, and actively nudges the player to understand it starts with Ezlo and his memorial hat for the Link of that time - the game shows a previous Link in the intro memorialized without one. Then out of sudden we have SS happening even earlier with all the Skyloft "knight" force having similarly shaped hats and Link just getting a green one. OoT-wise, SS did nothing wrong because it doesn't make a huge deal out of the hat, but with MC you have got... well, not as much as a contradiction, more of a seriously contrived coincidence here.
Human Trashcan
Banned
Yeah and the story fucking sucked so what do they know?
Linkstrikesback
Member
Magic exists and Majora used it. You could arbitrarily pick any number of elements from any Zelda game and declare them a dream world by that logic.
Green Mamba
Member
The Capcom titles (and FSA) are "technically canon" but basically ignored by the Nintendo made Zelda titles.
SolVanderlyn
Thanos acquires the fully powered Infinity Gauntlet in The Avengers: Infinity War, but loses when all the superheroes team up together to stop him.
Like clockwork
The details in the OP still makes it seem like a parallel world, but with Skull Kid as it's "god". It was based on his psyche, but it was still a tangible place that Link went to.
Because of the power of the mask it managed to manifest things beyond Skull Kid's knowledge, and that world ended after the mask wasn't able to continue making it exist. Sounds fine to me.
Because of the power of the mask it managed to manifest things beyond Skull Kid's knowledge, and that world ended after the mask wasn't able to continue making it exist. Sounds fine to me.
archvile7
Member
I'm of the belief that BOTW is a somewhat cheap way to merge all 3 timelines due to it being placed so far in the future and the presence of elements from practically every Zelda game made. Maybe Nintendo intended for this to be a "reboot" of the timeline of sorts.
stan423321
Member
Don't get it wrong, it's not like this is a completely unsound explanation. The problems are on another layer of reasoning. One, the disappearance part goes somewhat against the determinator (haha) spirit of the game, contrary to way more Zelda games going for a more Ancient Greek alike "gotta align with fate" philosophy. Two, we had two games in the very same series doing the psyche-based world thing, but they didn't rely on external source to communicate this, they told you so straight at some point, and the world being potentially more "real" than the aforementioned ones does not excuse coming up with such a global twist without no prior indication of this being the case.
Imagine that you're watching an action movie. Speed for instance, but it's not really important right now. If by the end they revealed it was all a training drill it could work better or worse, but it would be absolutely ludicrous if Speed 2 simply opened with "entirety of Speed 1 was a drill".
MrSaturn99
Member
Yeah, I think this is going to be like the "Koopalings aren't Bowser's children anymore" thing for me in that goes against an element of series lore that's been ingrained since childhood; putting it another way, it's kinda like accepting how Pluto isn't a planet anymore as there's an automatic resistance in my mind saying otherwise. Sorry, Nintendo!
I read about the Kokiris the other day but didn't know about the Oracle thing. Can't comment on it specifically since I never played them, but I imagine this is also really weird for that game's fans.
Is there anywhere all this info is being dumped?
If this is accurate this thread is even more amusing.
MrSaturn99
Member
Wait, really?
Human Trashcan
Banned
this times a fucking million until people get it
This goes not just for Zelda timeline shit but for ALL fiction. If it's not in the text it don't fucking matter.
Ryouji Gunblade
Member
HMS: "That parting need not last forever."
Encyclopedia: "Well..."
Encyclopedia: "Well..."
SpiceMelange
Member
I don't read personally japanese, but this is what people have been saying
Reading through that Zelda thread and they point out that none of the top heads at Nintendo are named in the credits of the encyclopedia. It has none of the same writers or editors of the previous book. Aonuma, for example was credited as the supervising editor in Hyrule Historia. They point out it's by Nintendo Dream. Nintendo Dream runs a Nintendo focused magazine in Japan.
So it's highly speculative fan theory but licensed and approved by Nintendo without any of their top heads working on the book.
So it's highly speculative fan theory but licensed and approved by Nintendo without any of their top heads working on the book.
John Kowalski
Banned
Actually Link is dead so
Right, I can understand the frustration and I agree that it's an unnecessary addition to the lore. My thing was more that it's not a simple "it was all a dream" like the OP concluded, which would be even cheaper.
The Hero of Time had a hard life, he saved 2 different worlds but his acomplishments went unnoticed (in his timeline), later dies with a bunch of regrets due to not being recognised as a hero and not being able pass on his skills. Now we find out the second world he saved is nothing more than a dark twisted dream.
I am certain someone at Nintendo hates the Hero of Time, he is the only Link who has a sad and depressing ending.
I am certain someone at Nintendo hates the Hero of Time, he is the only Link who has a sad and depressing ending.
Ryouji Gunblade
Member
Awakening, Wind, Twilight, and maybe Minish Cap Links would like a word with you.
Green Mamba
Member
The Oracle games' placement on the timeline was always kinda iffy, even back in the days of fan arguments. It's not super clear if the creators of the games had any specific intent on when they were supposed to take place (outside of post OOT due to Ganon and Twinrova being in them). Having them take place between ALttP and LA came from the fact that the linked story between the two has Link set off on a boat in the end (which is how LA begins), but that's a pretty weak connection if you ask me. The issue with placing them between ALttP and LA was that Zelda in the Oracle games very clearly meets Link for the first time, which would make no sense if he's supposed to be the same Link from ALttP.
Basically, it's an argument of whether you think Zelda's line is important and the ending is coincidental or that the ending was a show of developer intent and that Zelda's line is a minor continuity error. The fact that Nintendo has (apparently) changed their mind on this suggests that they don't really know either.
And, like I mentioned in a previous post, the Capcom titles are pretty much ignored by Nintendo's titles, as ALBW essentially ignores the Oracle games no matter their two possible positions; the Triforce is good and whole in the Oracle games and Ganon is very, very dead, but in ALBW the Triforce is split and Ganon has been sealed away (not that ALBW makes much sense following ALttP, either, but that's an issue with ALBW, really).
Well I haven't played Link's Awakening or Minish Cap but TP Link will at least be recognised and Wind Waker's ending wasn't sad, WW Link gets the opportunity to search for a new land live in.
stan423321
Member
The absolutely key part of backlash here is it disappearing immediately after Link leaving.
Basically ignored, perhaps, but not by means of direct contradiction most of the time. MC also pioneered concept of Zelda as an energy source not related exclusively to Triforce which was eventually used by DS games, SS, and to some level BotW.
BotW is simply vague about its timeline positioning in comparison to, well, basically everything else released since OoT barring FSA, at least from what I've seen by now. This doesn't necessarily mean they don't care about the intergame reactions at all. It's one game like that since years.
Well Nintendo must have read the book atleast and if it is approved by them then it is canon i guess?
I imagine they don't just approve a fanfic and call it a day atleast someone higher up must have gone through it first.
UnemployedVillain
Member
Nothing about this changes that. Some of you are so caught up on it being a dream, as if an entire magical dream world isn't essentially a mirror dimension.
I meant more in regards to the world disappearing after Link left. Majora is a depressing game with what some of the characters go through so the credit scene with all the celebrations was great.
Really sick of hearing this.
From Ocarina Of Time onward they've very clearly cared about when the games take place and how they relate to each other. Yes they wedged the earlier games in after the fact, but for the last 20 years they've pretty clearly been invested in building out lore and telling a series wide story.
stan423321
Member
Yeah, I agree that was somewhat hyperbolic.
The tricky part is that Zelda fans basically accepted Hyrule Historia with its Downfall timeline which apparently had some sort of similar disclaimer at the beginning. This generates an interesting situation.
Agreed.
In Twilight Princess Midna leaves forever i am sure he or Midna had a crush. Imo Link liked both the farm girl and Midna she probably realises that but it would not work she is from another world so thats one of the reasons she breaks the mirror with a tear and says her final words to Link.
Wind Waker Link tho probably has a very good life adventure with Tetra finding new lands and a new Hyrule Ganondorf is gone for good because that master sword is in his head in old Hyrule.
Awakening dunno.
Minish Cap also pretty good probably he saves Zelda and Ezlo dunno if Ezlo makes a final goodbye in the end but if so he still has Zelda as a good friend.
Skyward Sword and Spirit Tracks end very good in both it's heavily hinted they like each other unless in SS you go with that Bank Clerk lol(honestly who would do that Zelda is a 10/10 in that game).
OoT and Majoras mask a sad one he loses his best friend Navi and never finds her the only good one is the adult timeline ending where he is recognized as a hero by everyone in the others only the royal family knows i guess.
yanipheonu
Member
I mean, in so far as dream world are non canon.
One meta thing with Zelda is that it's always labelled as a legend. So sometimes the story gets told and they fudge the details. So Majora's Mask is a story of a dream of the Child Link specifically from Ocarina of Time
It's a dream (well, a magic dream), but still Canon.
One meta thing with Zelda is that it's always labelled as a legend. So sometimes the story gets told and they fudge the details. So Majora's Mask is a story of a dream of the Child Link specifically from Ocarina of Time
It's a dream (well, a magic dream), but still Canon.
WrenchNinja
Member
Yes it does. Lorule and the Twilight Realm didn't suddenly stop existing once Link saved them. There is a difference between a parallel universe and a dream one.
stan423321
Member
For reference:
MM -> clearly follows OoT as presented.
OoX -> somewhat of a mess as mentioned, but at least in clear relation to themselves.
FS -> indirectly establishes itself as something happening before LttP, by retconning included version of LttP.
WW -> clearly follows OoT ignoring the temporal retcon, therefore creating additional timeline.
FSA -> for what it's worth establishes itself as happening after FS, though it's clearly one of the less established ones.
MC -> clearly establishes itself to be happening before FS and FSA.
TP -> features the spirit of MM Link, and also Ganondorf.
PH -> directly follows WW.
ST -> obviously a follow-up to PH.
SS -> clearly before everything else established though leaving a loophole for going further back.
LBW -> somewhat of a mess but clearly after LttP and not after NES Zeldas.
TFH -> clearly follows LBW.
That's a pretty good track record for Nintendo not caring about timeline at all.
MulderYuffie
Member
still the best zelda so whatever.
My man.
Dangansona
Member
AcademicSaucer
Member
ayyy
Spyder_Monkey
Banned
Well Nintendo cares enough to actually put out a timeline. Just because you personally don't care doesn't make you all high and mighty so either leave or have fun.
Sora the Cat
Member
I thought every Zelda game story was like a new reboot (Except sequels of course), I'm actually more happy thinking that so I'll stick with it.
Concerning the Zelda Timeline, I feel it always needs to be pointed out that the Zelda series has had a timeline since Zelda 2 which features both a previous Zelda (1 of 2 in the game) and is all about baddies trying to revive Ganon.
I don't like this retcon. Its redundant given Link's Awakening and it doesn't carry any emotional weight.
I don't like this retcon. Its redundant given Link's Awakening and it doesn't carry any emotional weight.
Dr. Black Jack
Member
what if Link's Crossbow Training was also a skullkid dream
will it never end
will it never end
It's funny how everyone is ignoring this, assuming it's true.
Yeah the timeline stuff should just be ignored...They don't make the games with it in mind, at least since OoT when they finished writing the prequels to LoZ (aLttP and OoT). WW did cool stuff to re-imagine Ganon post-OoT but really pushed the whole "we must make sense of this all" problem in the years since (well, that and the OoT time-travel shenanigans, which also opened a can of worms), and it is just sloppy post-hoc rationalizations of the ballooning canon.
I mean the official history is also handed out with a bunch of hand-waving maybes...
I mean the official history is also handed out with a bunch of hand-waving maybes...