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[Skittzo0413]

It's not a retcon and doesn't even sound like a dream, more like a genuine alternate reality created specifically by the Skull Kid/Majora.

This is just essentially another way of calling it a parallel universe.

 

[nubbe]

This.

As far as I'm concerned, they're all standalone games with a shared setting and vague links to each other.

I wouldn't say they are completely standalone.
They usually come in pairs that share some close and definable history, but not really beyond that

 

[WrenchNinja]

that's fucking stupid

 

[UnemployedVillain]

1) so like I much prefer that over the billionth and 1 " this character is dead in a coma " theory.

2) I feel like people are questioning whether its a dream or not and I feel like the only other option you have is either,

A it was a dream
Is Skill kid imagined everything up, that technically is a dream. It may have seemed real, but the only reason it did is because skull kid can can push his imagination on to other it seems. A sort of dream sharing, but its still a dream .
or

B it was a hallucination
He knocked link out and caused link to hallucinate the entire thing and had some weird minipulation over it like scarecrow from batman. Though that gives an entire other disturbing conotation to the fate line, because it would have just been some weirdo who knocked some child out in the woods. And gave him something that caused him to hallucinate for a few hours. Woof

or Secret option C

Majora's mask too place in silent hill.

Majora mask land is like silent hill, and only exists as much as the user needs it to exist in that context.

It's not a retcon and doesn't even sound like a dream, more like a genuine alternate reality created specifically by the Skull Kid/Majora.

This is just essentially another way of calling it a parallel universe.

Bingo. Termina was never a real place in Hyrule. I'm honestly surprised people thought otherwise. Whether it's an alternate reality, dream, etc makes no substantive difference. The people in Termina =/= the same people from Hyrule

 

[MAX PAYMENT]

It's because the zelda timeline doesn't matter.

 

[bachikarn]

Bingo. Termina was never a real place in Hyrule. I'm honestly surprised people thought otherwise. Whether it's an alternate reality, dream, etc makes no substantive difference. The people in Termina =/= the same people from Hyrule

Probably because when the game came out, Nintendo explicitly said it was a parallel universe.

Also, all the hard work you do for the people of Termania is kind of pointless if it just ceases to exist after you leave.

 

[jph139]

I mean, it was obviously never "real" in the sense that "Termina is a place near Hyrule that you can visit." It's a weird combination of parallel universe/pocket dimension/fever dream, this just ties it more directly to Skull Kid and the mask.

 

[Spyder_Monkey]

If only the actual Majora's Mask game was all just a dream.

 

[Hot Coldman]

if it's not in the game it's irrelevant

 

[ArchedThunder]

Probably because when the game came out, Nintendo explicitly said it was a parallel universe.

Also, all the hard work you do for the people of Termania is kind of pointless if it just ceases to exist after you leave.

This kinda reframes you helping out the people of Termina as helping out Skullkid I guess.

 

[Crossing Eden]

It's because the zelda timeline doesn't matter.

I mean they literally retcon it on a whim?

LA is moved back to set immediately after ALttP, and OoX happened some time much latter with a different Link.
Also, the banishment of Dark Interlopers happened between SS and the sealing of the Sacred Realm.

 

[UnemployedVillain]

Probably because when the game came out, Nintendo explicitly said it was a parallel universe.

Also, all the hard work you do for the people of Termania is kind of pointless if it just ceases to exist after you leave.

It never had a "point" because it was always outside the reality of the rest of the series and it was never a place that would be returned to. I don't think that makes it pointless, anymore than Link's experiences in Link's Awakening being pointless, just because it was a dream. The value is in what Link would take from it and it's not like he realizes they stop existing afterwards

It's because the zelda timeline doesn't matter.

This has nothing to do with the timeline at all. The only connection is it's after Child Link leaves Hyrule. That's it

 

[BreezyLimbo]

Link is just a comatose child dreaming of being a hero and he keeps remaking how his story goes every time we play a new game.

 

[HalfBakedProphet]

that's fucking stupid

The Zelda canon in a nutshell. :lol

 

[AlexFlame116]

If only the actual Majora's Mask game was all just a dream.

The heck does that mean?

 

[Linkstrikesback]

1) so like I much prefer that over the billionth and 1 " this character is dead in a coma " theory.

2) I feel like people are questioning whether its a dream or not and I feel like the only other option you have is either,

A it was a dream
Is Skill kid imagined everything up, that technically is a dream. It may have seemed real, but the only reason it did is because skull kid can can push his imagination on to other it seems. A sort of dream sharing, but its still a dream .
or

B it was a hallucination
He knocked link out and caused link to hallucinate the entire thing and had some weird minipulation over it like scarecrow from batman. Though that gives an entire other disturbing conotation to the fate line, because it would have just been some weirdo who knocked some child out in the woods. And gave him something that caused him to hallucinate for a few hours. Woof

or Secret option C

Majora's mask too place in silent hill.

Majora mask land is like silent hill, and only exists as much as the user needs it to exist in that context.

If the master sword and/or Ocarina can send people backwards and forwards through time as they need, then I have no problem with Majoras Mask being able to create and/or open a path to another dimension. Especially since we know other similar but still different dimensions exist in other games in the series. Unless the Twilight Realm and especially Lorule, which came with its own versions of locations and various characters, are both dreams too.

 

[jph139]

Wait wait wait, looking at the linked thread, they're saying that Oracle Link is now DIFFERENT than ALttP Link? Why? The Oracle games are so obviously meant to be a prequel to LA. That makes no sense!

This is the real issue here people!

 

[PSqueak]

The message is clear here:

When characters dream in the Zelda universe, shit hits the fan for a very real Link.

 

[Shift Breaker]

That kills all hope for a Majora's Mask sequel taking place in Termina.

I mean, there was basically no chance, but I wanted it to happen.

 

[billbloodshed]

Freaking boooooooooo........

They better release it here.

It's not Japan only, Dark Horse published it in US

Edit: nope I was wrong this is new, thanks for the info

 

[UnemployedVillain]

That kills all hope for a Majora's Mask sequel taking place in Termina.

I mean, there was basically no chance, but I wanted it to happen.

I wasn't even aware people thought that had more than a 0% chance of happening

 

[Luminaire]

Majora's Mask is actually a new timeline.

The darkest, best timeline.

 

[ArchedThunder]

The message is clear here:

When characters dream in the Zelda universe, shit hits the fan for a very real Link.

It's not a dream, it's a world created by Majora's Mask from the Skullkid's psyche.

 

[Linkstrikesback]

That kills all hope for a Majora's Mask sequel taking place in Termina.

I mean, there was basically no chance, but I wanted it to happen.

Why?

Termina is basically Hyrule, but with Gods (the giants) that actually exist and intervene in land so that they never ended up with a Ganondorf type problem, until one came through from Hyrule.

I just basically assumed they lived happily ever after.

 

[AlexFlame116]

It's not Japan only, Dark Horse published it in US

Wait so it IS Hyrule Historia but that part was never translated?

 

[Gotdatmoney]

I haven't finished MM yet but the implication at the beginning of the game is link just ends up finding some weird ass world. Like that tunnel sort of implies that this place is not normal doesn't it?

 

[13ruce]

Lol the trifoce is destroyed in wind waker!
But what about lorule? That caused chaos!?

(go to the link in op the whole thread on zeldauniverse is interesting)

 

[ArchedThunder]

Wait so it IS Hyrule Historia but that part was never translated?

No, it's a brand new book that we'll probably get a bit later.

 

[Shift Breaker]

I wasn't even aware people thought that had more than a 0% chance of happening

Oh, entirely 0%. But I, personally, would love to see older places reimagined in a world similar to BotW's Hyrule. Means nothing in regards to speculation about the next Zelda game though, obviously.

 

[Linkstrikesback]

I haven't finished MM yet but the implication at the beginning of the game is link just ends up finding some weird ass world. Like that tunnel sort of implies that this place is not normal doesn't it?

This is probably what they intended, yes. Given that similar weird stuff happens when travelling between Hyrule/Lorule in LBTW, it's what I'm going to continue assuming.

 

[Lord_Byron28]

I thought it was a well known and established thing that Termina was some weird alternative dimension/world like Alice in Wonderland. That's how the game was advertised when it first released and the remake two years ago. Especially reading any developer interviews at the time, I believe they directly cited Alice in Wonderland as inspiration for the game. It's 90% of the same characters from OoT but they take on different names/roles.

 

[kewlmyc]

....I thought that was always the case. I mean most of the people there are just people from Hyrule but with different personalities.

 

[Tookay]

That makes zero sense that it would be destroyed after Link left. It doesn't even comport with the ending, where the townspeople are celebrating after he's already gone.

The implication was that it was always a parallel universe.

 

[C4Lukins]

I do not think the writers of the Zelda games put nearly the effort into writing these games as fans do trying to dissect them, and make connections to the greater Zelda universe. Stuff like this is just fan fiction in a mostly disconnected universe of games.

 

[billbloodshed]

No, it's a brand new book that we'll probably get a bit later.

Oh my bad, interesting hopefully we do. Thanks

 

[ArchedThunder]

I thought it was a well known and established thing that Termina was some weird alternative dimension/world like Alice in Wonderland. That's how the game was advertised when it first released and the remake two years ago. Especially reading any developer interviees at the time. It's 90% of the same characters from OoT but they take on different names/roles.

Yes, we all knew it was a different world, what's new is that it's a world that was created by Majora's Mask and that it ceases to exist after the end of the game.

 

[Capra]

Wait, so is Majora's intention to bring the moon down and kill everyone in Termina reflective of a suicidal wish on Skull Kid's part?

I actually don't hate this. It doesn't detract from the themes of the game and even seems to reinforce them somewhat. I just think it's weird they even felt the need to make such a change to begin with.

 

[Linkstrikesback]

Lol the trifoce is destroyed in wind waker!
But what about lorule? That caused chaos!?

(go to the link in op the whole thread on zeldauniverse is interesting)

...

Right, well, I think that probably sums up about much thought has gone in to this retconning.

I mean, I guess hyrule was already destroyed by the gods themselves in wind waker, and you never technically get to go back to the underseas land known as hyrule (BOTW timeline position arguments not withstanding, nobody do that here, first line of the thread says no BOTW spoilers, lets keep it that way).

....I thought that was always the case. I mean most of the people there are just people from Hyrule but with different personalities.

Zelda with purple hair dye is hardly grounds for assuming Lorule is a dream world instead of some real, but parallel one. I apply the same logic to MM. Termina is a parallel, but real, world.

 

[13ruce]

I gotta be honest after reading through OP's Link the timeline/info about games looks improved imo.

A post Wind Waker world without Triforce is awesome imo still i guess the Lorule people destroyed it instead of wishing it away..... So you can wish the triforce away but not destroy it because that causes chaos.

Edit:

...

Right, well, I think that probably sums up about much thought has gone in to this retconning.

I mean, I guess hyrule was already destroyed by the gods themselves in wind waker, and you never technically get to go back to the underseas land known as hyrule (BOTW timeline position arguments not withstanding, nobody do that here, first line of the thread says no BOTW spoilers, lets keep it that way).



Zelda with purple hair dye is hardly grounds for assuming Lorule is a dream world instead of some real, but parallel one. I apply the same logic to MM. Termina is a parallel, but real, world.

Yeah agreed. Hopefully the whole thing gets translated soon it all sounds interesting imo.
But it does make for some interesting questions about other things.

 

[LordKano]

I always assumed it was a dream. It was the most probable explanation.

 

[UnemployedVillain]

Wait, so is Majora's intention to bring the moon down and kill everyone in Termina reflective of a suicidal wish on Skull Kid's part?

I actually don't hate this. It doesn't detract from the themes of the game and even seems to reinforce them somewhat. I just think it's weird they even felt the need to make such a change to begin with.

I don't know if I consider it a change so much a clarification. We literally only knew Termina was a parallel world. That's it. And that's a very broad statement considering the crazy shit we've seen go down in the series

 

[Tookay]

We always knew it was just a dream, yeah? It's how Link passes through and accepts death to become a Stalfos.

Except he lives on quite a bit longer because he's clearly older and became a knight at some point by the time he's the Hero's Shade?

The Hero's Shade isn't even a Stalfos anyway - he just has the spirit aesthetic of one.

 

[Graphics Horse]

I do not think the writers of the Zelda games put nearly the effort into writing these games as fans do trying to dissect them, and make connections to the greater Zelda universe.

I mean the GTA timeline is less tenuous than Zelda's but afaik there aren't in depth conversations about how landmasses shifted between gta games that resulted in differently arranged maps.

 

[Shig]

Right, the game was actually originally called Zelda Gaiden (which is usually used for off-shoot stories or non-canonical ones at that) during development. Nintendo's insistence on timeline adherence is why we have multiple ones.

I don't think Nintendo is really insisting on timeline adherence at all. They developed every game as its own thing, fans kept trying to extrapolate benign references and nods as hard connections, so Nintendo humored them by bullshitting up an 'official' timeline. If something they want to include in a game runs afoul of established timeline continuity, they won't rewrite the game or exclude elements they feel like including; They'll just rewrite the timeline.

 

[AcademicSaucer]

Whats the Fierce Diety mask then?

 

[Raysoul]

So this is technically Link's Awakening?

 

[UnemployedVillain]

I don't think Nintendo is really insisting on timeline adherence at all. They developed every game as its own thing, fans kept trying to extrapolate benign references and nods as hard connections, so Nintendo humored them by bullshitting up an 'official' timeline. If something they want to include in a game runs afoul of established timeline continuity, they won't rewrite the game or exclude elements they feel like including; They'll just rewrite the timeline.

When people say Nintendo bullshitted up a timeline, surely they mean for the non-3D games, right? Because I don't know how anyone could be paying any attention while playing and not see the blatant connections between the 3D games (and that includes the DS ones). Like there's little ambiguity where they fall when they make direct references (Hero of Time, ocarina of time, "hero never returned", etc)

 

[MarcoZombieCannon]

This would make sense.

Except for the part where Skull Kid is in Termina before he had the mask.

 

[Mariolee]

Just because it's a dream doesn't mean it's not real.

 

[Linkstrikesback]

Whats the Fierce Diety mask then?

What do you mean?

I assume it's a similar mask to Majora, some powerful, arguably potentially evil being (god?), was sealed in a mask and wearing it grants the user that power.

Following the line of logic does make you wonder what the Mask Salesman did to get that mask of Mario though...