In the case your TV supports full, then yes.How do you know if your set supports RGB full? I almost always set my sets to Limited because Full always seems to overshoot (over saturate, kill blacks, etc.), so you're saying you should set the console to Full and fuddle with brightness/contrast?
This shouldn't be happening. If it looks washed out, you TV is improperly set up.
The signal needs to match, as in Limited with Limited or Full with Full. Otherwise you get what you're describing, or even worse, completely crushed blacks.
I don't actually use TV personnally, just PC monitors.
One monitor I have uses hdmi and everytime I update the Nvidia drivers the nvidia settings are set to limited and it's very washed out so I have to set it again to full. I guess maybe it's different on TVs.
You may be right, but we need sources.
You are talking in HDR terms. This discussion is about SDR, or that's what I intended.when it comes to consoles on a TV I messed around with RGB Full vs Limited for a long time on the ps4 and xbox one on my Sony xbrx800d and ultimately landed on leaving it at limited. there is no noticeable difference when it comes to the brightness or contrast ratio in the image but what you DO notice is the color depth. When you set it to RGB full you get 8 bit color and that leaves you with noticeable banding in some places, particularly where bright lights are in the middle of dark backgrounds. when you set it to RGB limited you get 10 bit color which leaves little to no banding ever.
so the argument is about 8 bit vs 10 bit, as nothing else makes a difference and HDR is always limited eitherway. On xbox this is the recommended option and on PS4 you have to manually set it to limited and have deep color automatic.
You are talking in HDR terms. This discussion is about SDR, or that's what I intended.
In SDR, both Full and limited uses 8bit.
There are two fundamental basics to image levels - Colour systems that will output either full data range images (0-255 or 0-1023), or TV legal levels (16-235 or 64-940), and displays that expect the input signal to be either full data range images, or TV legal levels, and will display accordingly.
What is important to understand up-front is that all displays show black as 'black' and white as 'white. This means that regardless of the input signal, if it is correctly matched to the display's expected input, black and white will look the same. So, if a display has the option of setting the expected input to 'data' levels, or 'TV legal' levels, when correctly matched to the input signal, black and white will look identical with a TV Legal input signal, or a Data Level input signal.
This is hard to get your head around, but understanding this is critical!
Rgb format goes from 0 to 255 for each color... which needs 8 bit to represent. You are mixing ideas : /No im not, I made the distinction that HDR is always limited. On this TV and probably others, you can get 8 or 10 bit color from the consoles in RGB with the difference being 444 chroma or 422.
Limited is 10 bit 422 and full is 8 bit 444. the difference is in how much banding you see.
Rgb format goes from 0 to 255 for each color... which needs 8 bit to represent. You are mixing ideas : /
Okay, I'm confused.
So for HDR, it's best to set rgb to limited instead of full?
If so, why not just keep it at limited?
. what do you mean by "tv's hdr at 4k"?If your talking about TV's HDR at 4K is only in the limited range and it does not use RGB.
. what do you mean by "tv's hdr at 4k"?
I'm talking about my console. I currently have it set to full rgb. Does this affect HDR negatively when playing games or using netflix or whatever?were getting each other confused. Your talking about your TV and whether you should set your tv limited or full or your console to limited or full when it comes to HDR content?
Check your TV setting. If PS4 is full, then TV needs to send full/High HDMI black level. Personally i would recommend just using Limited on console and Low/Limited on the TV as well. As others have said, the picture should look identical between low+low and high+high.I'm talking about my console. I currently have it set to full rgb. Does this affect HDR negatively when playing games or using netflix or whatever?
Sorry for the confusion.
It depends what your TV is doing if it get a HDR signal. The console switches always to limited for HDR content. If your TV stays at full and not switching to limited then yes you will get washed out colors.I'm talking about my console. I currently have it set to full rgb. Does this affect HDR negatively when playing games or using netflix or whatever?
I'm talking about my console. I currently have it set to full rgb. Does this affect HDR negatively when playing games or using netflix or whatever?
Sorry for the confusion.
This should be the top result of someone is googling this problem! Thanks for the explanation. I was unsure if I can set a pro to limited since I need the TV to be limited in gaming mode.Let me reiterate some things just so people arent confused or reading scattered comments. This only applies to playing high end console games on your TV.
If you have an 8 bit panel (an HDTV or 4K tv that does not support HDR) and it supports RGB full then YES set it to full for your console input. you'll get the full range of your TV's capabilities and an uncompressed image. for TV viewing it must be in limited as whatever signal is coming in from your cable box or your bluray player is NOT in that full rgb range.
If you have a 10 bit panel (an HDR capable 4K tv most likely) then its up to you. same rules apply.. anything other than a PC or console probably has no use for the RGB full range.
But a PS4 Pro or Xbox one S/X do have 4K 10 bit capability and you can take advantage of that 10 bit image if you wish. Your options are
- RGB Full - 8 Bit 4.4.4 completely uncompressed image when displaying in SDR (HDR will be slightly compressed to 4.2.2. or 4.2.0. in YCC or YUV because it is IMPOSSIBLE to not compress a 4K 60herts image at 10 bit depth using current HDMI standards)
-RGB Limited (PS4 RGB Limited with deep color auto/Xbox One Standard range with 10 bit color depth) This will give you a slightly compressed 10 bit 4.2.2. or 4.2.0. image in SDR and makes no difference in HDR. The benefit to this is that SDR will also take advantage of your TV's 10 bit panel to show less banding across the image which may or may not be too noticeable depending on what is onscreen. Color banding IS the only noticeable difference you will see between the uncompressed 8 bit 444 image and the slightly compressed 10 bit 422 image when it comes to playing a console game.
This should be the top result of someone is googling this problem! Thanks for the explanation. I was unsure if I can set a pro to limited since I need the TV to be limited in gaming mode.
So, if I own a 4k 10 bit panel, full rgb is slightly more beneficial?this is perfectly fine.. the only reason the consoles support rgb full really is for people who play them on a PC monitor, and for those that have 4k 10 bit panels well you can get that uncompressed image if you want.
Only in SDR.So, if I own a 4k 10 bit panel, full rgb is slightly more beneficial?
So, if I own a 4k 10 bit panel, full rgb is slightly more beneficial?
No. Full/full and Low/Limited should look identical. I got an LG C7. As long as you match settings, you're good. If you want to confirm yourself, just try those settings yourself though, just make sure you do not mismatch them.So, if I own a 4k 10 bit panel, full rgb is slightly more beneficial?
Between my Onkyo and Sony XBR, even if I set it to Full RGB, they auto switch to whatever the media is on the PS4 or Xbox.
I always run my PC monitors at Full but I have always been under the impression that TV is limited. Always have ran that way. Full on TVs end up with crushed blacks.
Also trying to run Full RGB I get a warning on bandwidth support at 10bit on my Sony. Even though I think it is just a generic warning when switching to it. Both my receiver and tv support that from what I remember.
What setting am I looking for on a LG HDR TV. If the PS4 is set to Limited what should the setting on the TV be?
If PS4 is limited, then set your TV to Low. If you want, try PS4 at full and TV at high, should still look identical.What setting am I looking for on a LG HDR TV. If the PS4 is set to Limited what should the setting on the TV be?
Limited...whatever you console is the tv needs to also be..unless HDR is on then it must always be limited.
If PS4 is limited, then set your TV to Low. If you want, try PS4 at full and TV at high, should still look identical.
you cant do 10 bit at RGB full through HDMI so thats why you are getting that message. maybe with 30herts but not 60
What is that under in the menu though. It doesnt say full or limited anywhere.
I have a Gamma setting (low, medium, high1, high2) , a Black Level setting (Auto, low, high)
Your Black Level is the RGB level, just using a different name. Low=limited and High=full. Make sure it's matched that way.Ok but that will mess with HDR when it kicks in right? (Full/high)
God this is confusing.
Your Black Level is the RGB level, just using a different name. Low=limited and High=full. Make sure it's matched that way.
HDR will automatically use Limited no matter what, so as long as you match full+high or low+limited you'll be fine.
Its the SJ810V SUHD line if that helps.
That's why just leave it at Auto. My Ks8000 works totally fine with ps4 pro at Auto. Why you guys have to make it more complicated?Ok but that will mess with HDR when it kicks in right? (Full/high)
God this is confusing.
There is 100% difference in limited versus full when both set correctly. More Shadow detail in the brights and colors have more depth and variety. The difference is like looking at an uncalibrated TV versus a calibrated oneThe washed out image is only happens if you set the color range wrong. If it is both full/full or limited/limited there is no difference. Well there could be a difference but it depends on your TV how it handle it. To say in general that full is always better is wrong. I tested it on my B7 OLED with a lot of games and there is absolutely no difference if everything is set properly. But my TV is hardware calibrated this could be a reason why there is no difference.
There is 100% difference in limited versus full when both set correctly. More Shadow detail in the brights and colors have more depth and variety. The difference is like looking at an uncalibrated TV versus a calibrated one
it should be also noted that when I would view YouTube or Netflix app on my Xbox they always seemed more dim and dull compared to when I watch them on my TV apps version. Now that I'm using PC full settings on my Xbox, those apps look brilliant now and I actually had to turn down the brightness and they look very punchy
"Doesnt matter if matching console and TV avoids black crush and white clipping, YOU ACTUALLY LOSE BRIGHTNESS STEPS.
To be specific, you lose 16 + 20 (255- 235) = 36 steps, wich is actually huge, and it translates in a significant lose of detail and bland picture"
This is obviously incorrect. the console will simply shrink whatever value would be outside of the 16-235 to that specific range. this happens internally before the image is sent out to the TV, so whatever you do wont matter...and every game is designed to work this way. setting to RGB full simply reassigns the values back to the original but it does not create new ones, it simply stretches the values back up. that is why the picture is no less brighter, or more colorful in full vs standard. the ONLY reason you would lose brightness steps or see a blander picture is because you INCORRECTLY set your TV's rgb range when compared to the console.
That is what outputting in limited means.
Limited have less brightness shades, doesnt matter how you put it.
From 0 to 255 gives you more shades than 16 to 235. You cant fit 255 into 219 without compressing.