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[xion4360]

Not sure if this is the thread for it but it seems similar.

When it comes to HDR, in games like Creed Odyssey, they have the HDR sliders for maximum brightness and (blanking on the name) maxiumum white level.

There's zero infirmation on what to actually do there inside the options so what is the goal?

Brightness works the same way as in SDR.. you want to lower or raise is so that the blacks arent washed out and also so the whites arent lost.. try to find a balance but typically its the dark areas that suffer if you set it too high.

The white level (paper white) is the highest white your tv can display. it would be nice if every game gave you that screen to work with where you have some visible indicator. In forza they use a forza logo...you lower it until its visible and then you raise it until it just disappears. Outside of blowing out some of the bright parts overdoing this wont massively impact your picture so just lower it all the way and then start raising it.. you should see the brighter parts of the picture get brighter, once you stop noticing a difference stop raising it.

 

[Nikana]

Brightness works the same way as in SDR.. you want to lower or raise is so that the blacks arent washed out and also so the whites arent lost.. try to find a balance but typically its the dark areas that suffer if you set it too high.

The white level (paper white) is the highest white your tv can display. it would be nice if every game gave you that screen to work with where you have some visible indicator. In forza they use a forza logo...you lower it until its visible and then you raise it until it just disappears. Outside of blowing out some of the bright parts overdoing this wont massively impact your picture so just lower it all the way and then start raising it.. you should see the brighter parts of the picture get brighter, once you stop noticing a difference stop raising it.

Makes sense thanks for this.

 

[pawel86ck]

I have 3 HDTV's (4K UHD LCD included), although I prefer gaming on my panasonic plasma gt60 because of black levels and natural picture. On previous plasmas when I have tried RGB full settings I could see clear black crush, and I couldnt see all gradients on shadow details test patterns even when I have raised brightness manually. GT60 is my first tv where I can really use fullrgb settings and still see all shadow details (and even without manually adjusting brightness settings), but I cant tell any difference between rgb full and limited, colors looks the same, and shadows also so I dont know if that settings works correctly. But I do know playing games with RGB set to FULL add more lag, and because I can feel that lag I'm using limited RGB settings.

And BTW guys fullRGB and 4:4:4 is the same thing?

 

[Whitecrow]

Well, and to continue, I bring some interesting 'bad news'.
After some more exhaustive testing, it seems that Samsung's HDMI black level is far from meaning 'Full RGB'. Any input mode and color optiopnsgave full RGB support for my TV.

What HDMI black level on low does is change some internal settings to add more contrast to the image.
The black crush can be avoided still by increasing the brightness, but I'm not sure if the entire thing it messes with the originals colors too much.

I think for the most accurate (but not pleasant) result in TVs, is limited RGB with black levels untouched.

 

[rəddəM]

And BTW guys fullRGB and 4:4:4 is the same thing?

No.
https://www.rtings.com/tv/learn/chroma-subsampling
Chroma is usually only supported when you set your HDMI input to PC mode. That means your TV will correctly display the image without compression since PC interface (Windows) and sites don't use compressions.
If you set your HDMI input to PC while using the PS4 you could experience a very blurry picture because PC mode disables all fake enhancements (compression compensation/oversharpening) since PCs have Full RGB 4:4:4.
Like I mentioned in my previous posts, I now have full chroma support and lower input latency at the expanse of a blurrier image and only adding more sharpness to it that it was viewable.
You can open your PS4 web navigator and open the Rtings chroma testing pattern image in the link above and change the HDMI to PC and see what Chroma does but If you go back to the menus and see blurriness and try a game and the foliage and textures get all blurried you should probably get back to HDMI game mode since modern TVs disables all the fakeness and have the same low input lag as PC mode.
You don't need Chroma 4:4:4 for consoles because they don't use it, that's why you (me at least) will see the blur.
I'm only sharing my experience with it. My old plasma gets faster in PC mode that is why I use it now.

 

[pawel86ck]

No.
https://www.rtings.com/tv/learn/chroma-subsampling
Chroma is usually only supported when you set your HDMI input to PC mode. That means your TV will correctly display the image without compression since PC interface (Windows) and sites don't use compressions.
If you set your HDMI input to PC while using the PS4 you could experience a very blurry picture because PC mode disables all fake enhancements (compression compensation/oversharpening) since PCs have Full RGB 4:4:4.
Like I mentioned in my previous posts, I now have full chroma support and lower input latency at the expanse of a blurrier image and only adding more sharpness to it that it was viewable.
You can open your PS4 web navigator and open the Rtings chroma testing pattern image in the link above and change the HDMI to PC and see what Chroma does but If you go back to the menus and see blurriness and try a game and the foliage and textures get all blurried you should probably get back to HDMI game mode since modern TVs disables all the fakeness and have the same low input lag as PC mode.
You don't need Chroma 4:4:4 for consoles because they don't use it, that's why you (me at least) will see the blur.
I'm only sharing my experience with it. My old plasma gets faster in PC mode that is why I use it now.

I have asked about chroma 4:4:4 because I have seperate option for it, and I can enable 4:4:4 in all picture modes and regardless if I will choose RGB limited or full. 4:4:4 settings works for sure because on 4:4:4 chroma test these RGB colors looks totally washed out and fonts are blurry as hell when I will disable 4:4:4, but looks clear and colorful when I will enable 4:4:4. The difference is huge and on top of that 4:4:4 settings reduce input lag quite a bit (and I'm quessing because TV dont need to convert 4:2:2 into 4:4:4)
http://www.ozone3d.net/public/jegx/201412/chroma-subsampling-test-4k-tv.png

 

[Spukc]

PROTIP:

DONT FUCKING READ ANYTHING FROM THIS 4 PAGE THREAD

this shit is like hell for nerds

 

[Chairman Tickles]

When I fire up dragon quest 11 with special k (includes HDR mod) via my TV (HDR10), I have to disable full RGB in nvidia control panel. I then get proper HDR in dragon quest. I have to do this for any HDR title on PC (eg Ass creed).

 

[Lightsbane]

PROTIP:

DONT FUCKING READ ANYTHING FROM THIS 4 PAGE THREAD

this shit is like hell for nerds

It's really not that complicated.

Set the TV's RGB range to Limited, then go into the console's menu and do the same. Then never touch it again.

 

[xion4360]

No.
https://www.rtings.com/tv/learn/chroma-subsampling
Chroma is usually only supported when you set your HDMI input to PC mode. That means your TV will correctly display the image without compression since PC interface (Windows) and sites don't use compressions.
If you set your HDMI input to PC while using the PS4 you could experience a very blurry picture because PC mode disables all fake enhancements (compression compensation/oversharpening) since PCs have Full RGB 4:4:4.
Like I mentioned in my previous posts, I now have full chroma support and lower input latency at the expanse of a blurrier image and only adding more sharpness to it that it was viewable.
You can open your PS4 web navigator and open the Rtings chroma testing pattern image in the link above and change the HDMI to PC and see what Chroma does but If you go back to the menus and see blurriness and try a game and the foliage and textures get all blurried you should probably get back to HDMI game mode since modern TVs disables all the fakeness and have the same low input lag as PC mode.
You don't need Chroma 4:4:4 for consoles because they don't use it, that's why you (me at least) will see the blur.
I'm only sharing my experience with it. My old plasma gets faster in PC mode that is why I use it now.

444 chroma doesnt make anything blurry, in fact it represents the cleanest possible picture as far as per pixel clarity. If you're seeing a blurry picture its for other reasons. Calibrate your tv

 

[Spukc]

The horror continues

 

[Whitecrow]

I think I have figured all this out by now, i'm gonna make an edit on OP.
EDIT
*Updated*

 

[xion4360]

I think I have figured all this out by now, i'm gonna make an edit on OP.
EDIT
*Updated*

Im sorry but your still incorrect. HDMI Black level IS how many TVs represent the RGB full/limited option.

your going to spread misinformation this way.
There is another option for black level that increases or reduces the black level of the TV. As has been said many times, on a TV limited and full RGB will appear the same, so as long as everything is matched correctly there wont be a noticeable difference.
Your reaching these conclusions based on your testing on this set? https://www.rtings.com/tv/reviews/samsung/j6300
you need a better TV.

 

[Cranberrys]

Why should I mess around with Full/Limited ? I've got an Sony 65ZD9 TV. TV is calibrated to my taste (so not at all a pro calibration) on the three video modes I use (Game Mode, Cinema Home Mode and HDR Video mode), HDMI is on Auto, Xbox One X is on Standard RGB, 36-bit per pixel (12-bit) = picture is wonderful both in HDR & non HDR. Since my TV is FALD, the black are inky (maybe not OLED inky but still very much black), I Don't feel I need to touch anything.

 

[Whitecrow]

Im sorry but your still incorrect. HDMI Black level IS how many TVs represent the RGB full/limited option.

your going to spread misinformation this way.
There is another option for black level that increases or reduces the black level of the TV. As has been said many times, on a TV limited and full RGB will appear the same, so as long as everything is matched correctly there wont be a noticeable difference.
Your reaching these conclusions based on your testing on this set? https://www.rtings.com/tv/reviews/samsung/j6300
you need a better TV.

I'm not spreading missinformation.
You can even read it here:
https://www.samsung.com/ph/support/tv-audio-video/what-is-the-hdmi-black-level-setting/

I fed the TV with a Full RGB signal from my PC, and there was no way to make it show all that range.
So no, the setting does not switch between ranges, it just enhances/expands the blacks or not.

The thing is, if the TV already does support Full RGB (not like mine) the enhacement is unnecessary, thats why you shoud disable the enhacement.

 

[xion4360]

I'm not spreading missinformation.
You can even read it here:
https://www.samsung.com/ph/support/tv-audio-video/what-is-the-hdmi-black-level-setting/

I fed the TV with a Full RGB signal from my PC, and there was no way to make it show all that range.
So no, the setting does not switch between ranges, it just enhances/expands the blacks or not.

The thing is, if the TV already does support Full RGB (not like mine) the enhacement is unnecessary, thats why you shoud disable the enhacement.

This is not the same for all TV's, many others do have Limited/full options displayed as HDMI black level.

 

[DESTROYA]

So I bought this monitor for my little gaming corner:

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07GBX27CB/?tag=neogaf0e-20

I want to hook up a PS4 slim and Switch and get the best picture with HDR , any recommendations for what settings yo use?

 

[Whitecrow]

This is not the same for all TV's, many others do have Limited/full options displayed as HDMI black level.

Still, J6300 was top of the line not so many years ago. It's hard to believe it doesnt support full.

Like the link I posted says, if the TV sees a Full range signal, the HDMI black level gets grayed out.
So, I'm sure that if you can change the option, you are either receiving limited or the TV doesnt support full.

I'm betting my neck on that. It makes lots of sense. But people obviously is free to believe whatever they want.

 

[xion4360]

Still, J6300 was top of the line not so many years ago. It's hard to believe it doesnt support full.

Like the link I posted says, if the TV sees a Full range signal, the HDMI black level gets grayed out.
So, I'm sure that if you can change the option, you are either receiving limited or the TV doesnt support full.

I'm betting my neck on that. It makes lots of sense. But people obviously is free to believe whatever they want.

I dont have a samsung so I cant check myself, but this is where it seems to be at.

If you set PS4 to RGB Full the black level option will grey out locking it into full (correct)

If you set the PS4 to RGB Limited then you can use low or normal. Normal is the correct setting, where it doesnt change the values, low would crush the blacks. it may look more pleasant initially because of the deeper black but its not the correct setting.

Every other setting being the same, ps4 full - black level locked to full and ps4 limited - black level normal SHOULD look the same cow.

I know it may seem better to enable the deeper black but this not what full rgb really is. If you want those deep blacks without crushing anything you need to pony up the cash for an OLED display.

 

[Whitecrow]

If you set the PS4 to RGB Limited then you can use low or normal. Normal is the correct setting, where it doesnt change the values, low would crush the blacks. it may look more pleasant initially because of the deeper black but its not the correct setting.

If you dont mind to follow this 'nerd' conversation, I'll give you some insights on how my Samsung works = )

-With a limited input, and black level on Low, the minimum brightness I can get without crushing black is 45.
-With a limited input, and black level on normal, the minimum brightness is 30/31. That's in order to get the 'limited black' to the blackest black of the TV.
-So, if in this 30 brightness you enable black level, the blacks gets crushed, because that brightness is not where the limited range should be.
-But if with the black level enabled, you bring back the brightness to 45, where it's supposed to be, you get all the contrast from the enhancement without crushing blacks and without clipping whites.
So the conclusion on limited is that whatever you do, 45 seems to be the correct brightness.

The story now is, if the black level enhancement conversion to 'Full' is accurate as it should be and it really reflects how the input on Full would be displayed.
Because... well, there's some maths to the colors, as it can be seen here:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/YCbCr

But I'm totally clueless about that.

I know it may seem better to enable the deeper black but this not what full rgb really is. If you want those deep blacks without crushing anything you need to pony up the cash for an OLED display.

You have 2 ideas here = )
-Getting a pure black.
-And mapping the input black to the blackest black of the display.

Personally, I dont care so much for pure blacks, I just wanna get all detail I can, and displaying accurately as possible the image that the source is sending.

 

[xion4360]

I dont get why your talking about brightness? it should have nothing to do with this..none of that should change. Like I said the image on full or limited is supposed to look the same.. your crushing blacks to begin with on limited/low thats why your setting brightness higher to compensate , but you shouldn't be compensating, you should be setting it correctly to begin with.

I feel ive put in enough to the discussio so ill just leave it with this

 

[Whitecrow]

I dont get why your talking about brightness? it should have nothing to do with this..none of that should change. Like I said the image on full or limited is supposed to look the same.. your crushing blacks to begin with on limited/low thats why your setting brightness higher to compensate , but you shouldn't be compensating, you should be setting it correctly to begin with.

I feel ive put in enough to the discussio so ill just leave it with this

That's true.
Thanks for your time, I appreciate it = )

 

[carsar]

You don't need Chroma 4:4:4 for consoles because they don't use it, that's why you (me at least) will see the blur.

consoles and pc games use 444 rgb. with 422 chroma you just compress image like png compresses to jpg.
422 can't look charper then 444 rgb, all sharpness enhancements make image even worse, especially in motion. It just looks like dirtand noise on a screen.
With 444 rgb you get really clear image without dirty and oversharp.
And most interesting fact -444 rgb has sharpness slider too and it works completely different from TV-processing sharpness.
Default sharpness is 50(0-100 scale) for my KS8000 and when I set 53 sharpness - picture looks more clear without oversharpness at all.
If I play 4k games with TAA I use 60 sharpness and picture looks better then with ingame sharpness sliders(Deus EX MD for example).
Same with 1080p TAA games. I use 65 charpness and picture looks almost like 4k with 422(withou sharpness ofc, because i don't like noise in motion)

 

[JDTR1992]

So this will probably be a long post and im hoping somebody can help me out here.

I have a 2017 65inch sony XBR850 apperantly my tv supports full RGB according to the settings, but on ps4 says its not compatible with 2160p - RGB (only 2160p-YUV420)

When i go full RGB my colors look better but i feel like blacks are a little too black.

I been on limited for a little while and today i popped HORIZON and even on limited and with HDR the game looks really really dark at night

This are the settings i have for my TV and they look great on most other games.

Destiny 2 is another game that looks WAAAY too dark. To the point i turn HDR off because i lose way too much detail.

I hooked my ps4 to a monitor and damn full rgb there makes games look crazy good. Especially destiny.

So should i go full RGB or Limited?

 

[Sky87]

So this will probably be a long post and im hoping somebody can help me out here.

I have a 2017 65inch sony XBR850 apperantly my tv supports full RGB according to the settings, but on ps4 says its not compatible with 2160p - RGB (only 2160p-YUV420)

When i go full RGB my colors look better but i feel like blacks are a little too black.

I been on limited for a little while and today i popped HORIZON and even on limited and with HDR the game looks really really dark at night

This are the settings i have for my TV and they look great on most other games.

Destiny 2 is another game that looks WAAAY too dark. To the point i turn HDR off because i lose way too much detail.

I hooked my ps4 to a monitor and damn full rgb there makes games look crazy good. Especially destiny.

So should i go full RGB or Limited?

Limited on both TV and console is the correct option. Horizon gets really dark at night, it's supposed to be that way. It was the same on my C7 OLED. I've also seen so many reports of people complaining about HDR in Destiny 2 being too dark and that the devs are supposedly working on it.







I don't see anything immediately wrong about your second and especially third picture of Horizon either.

 

[xion4360]

So this will probably be a long post and im hoping somebody can help me out here.

I have a 2017 65inch sony XBR850 apperantly my tv supports full RGB according to the settings, but on ps4 says its not compatible with 2160p - RGB (only 2160p-YUV420)

When i go full RGB my colors look better but i feel like blacks are a little too black.

I been on limited for a little while and today i popped HORIZON and even on limited and with HDR the game looks really really dark at night

This are the settings i have for my TV and they look great on most other games.

Destiny 2 is another game that looks WAAAY too dark. To the point i turn HDR off because i lose way too much detail.

I hooked my ps4 to a monitor and damn full rgb there makes games look crazy good. Especially destiny.

So should i go full RGB or Limited?

turn off black adjust, thats what is making it look dark. Horizon is one of the best looking games in HDR and I have a set very similar to this one. I have contrast all the way up, black level at 48, just a tiny bit down. If you really like black adjust dont go any higher than low.

in HDR its running on Limited YUV not RGB. You should be able to get 2160p RGB but maybe your HDMI cables arent good enough? Use the one that came with the PS4 and use HDMI port 2 or 3. I recommend setting it to RGB limited and everything else on automatic. You have HDMI black level on the TV set to limited, if you set the ps4 to full you should set the tv to auto (this is a sony TV, you wont have handshake issues)

 

[JDTR1992]

turn off black adjust, thats what is making it look dark. Horizon is one of the best looking games in HDR and I have a set very similar to this one. I have contrast all the way up, black level at 48, just a tiny bit down. If you really like black adjust dont go any higher than low.

in HDR its running on Limited YUV not RGB. You should be able to get 2160p RGB but maybe your HDMI cables arent good enough? Use the one that came with the PS4 and use HDMI port 2 or 3. I recommend setting it to RGB limited and everything else on automatic. You have HDMI black level on the TV set to limited, if you set the ps4 to full you should set the tv to auto (this is a sony TV, you wont have handshake issues)

If i remember right, Port 4 is the only one that supports 4k @ 60hz

Ps4 to limited and TV hdmi video range limited seems to give me the best picture.

Maybe the tv is just not that great, think it had like a 8.5 rtings

 

[xion4360]

If i remember right, Port 4 is the only one that supports 4k @ 60hz

Ps4 to limited and TV hdmi video range limited seems to give me the best picture.

Maybe the tv is just not that great, think it had like a 8.5 rtings

Its a good Tv. look in settings/external inputs/HDMI signal format and it will tell you which inputs offer 4K 60, 422, 444. I cant imagine its only 1 of the 4.. but yeah just check.

 

[Hostile_18]

What is the correct black level for HDR gaming? I only ask because I get crushed blacks on my Oled Tv YCbCR setting "normal" and loads of extra shadow detail on "Full" without it looking washed out at all.

 

[zeomax]

Don't read the first post it is full of misinformation!!

Limited is the only correct setting for both the console and the TV.

 

[Hostile_18]

Don't read the first post it is full of misinformation!!

Limited is the only correct setting for both the console and the TV.

Does that include HDR games as well?

 

[zeomax]

Yes

 

[Whitecrow]

Don't read the first post it is full of misinformation!!

Limited is the only correct setting for both the console and the TV.

Its full of things you dont understand or you dont agree with maybe.
I updated a couple of errors I had, but I still stand by what I wrote.

Full RGB have more detail, because it has more colors to display at the same time.
Limited have less detail but more contrast.
And modern TVs have enough color gamut to be able to display Full RGB. So the 'limited only correct setting' thing is absolutely wrong.

Black enhacement ON/Low is for limited signal, because it makes the 'limited' blacks 'full' blacks.
And that transformation have no sense when the input is already Full RGB.

And all that is talking about SDR content, I dont know anything about HDR because I dont have it and I cannot test.

 

[Shifty]

Don't read the first post it is full of misinformation!!

Go on then, clarify this claim of misinformation and present your findings to the room. We're waiting.

 

[zeomax]

I did it already. Read the first two pages.

 

[base]

FullRGB only for monitors. Limited for TVs.

 

[Shifty]

I did it already. Read the first two pages.

And done.

I'm not inclined to take your claims at face value when one of your arguments is "games are mastered for limited range". That's not how real-time rendering works, there is no concept of mastering as there would be with a pre-encoded video.

Output range is decided by the console at runtime, and outside of the specific case that is Wii U (which is hardcoded to limited, if memory serves), can absolutely cover the full 0-255 RGB range if the console presents an option for it.

Your points about matching settings on the output device and TV are accurate though- plugging limited into full or vice-versa is only going to cause color crush.

 

[zeomax]

I'm not inclined to take your claims at face value when one of your arguments is "games are mastered for limited range". That's not how real-time rendering works, there is no concept of mastering as there would be with a pre-encoded video.

Console games are made to be viewed on a TV. Limited is the only value that every TV is supporting. Why? Because that's a standard for televisions. Full range support is an optional feature and not a standard for TVs. This has nothing to do with real-time rendering or pre-encoded videos. Like i already said before, if something is made to be viewed on a TV --> limited is the correct setting.

If you still can't understand it, sorry but i don't know how to explain it more easier.

 

[Fake]

Guys, for all games is 'limited'.
Keep in mind both the TV and the console 'must' be set to 'limited'. Samsung TVs call 'HDMI Black Level', so you must set to 'low'.

 

[xion4360]

I now have a samsung Tv and understand how the HDMI black level setting goes...
Normal - Full
Low - Limited

as usual, as long as the inputs are matched correctly there is no difference in the picture between the two because there isnt meant to be one...RGB full support is there because Tvs can be used as PC monitors and PCs use RGB full...using a TV that does not support RGB full as a PC monitor means color ranges will be messed up unless you can change the setting on the PC to limited, but then that doesnt necessarily fix everything you can look at online.

The PS4 doesnt let you manually select a color depth setting (444 or 422 subsampling) instead it automatically seems to select 444 with full and 422 with limited, this is the only reason you would use full on ps4, not because of the black level but the chroma subsampling...and even then most TVs seem to require the input to be labeled "PC" in order to activate this..and I find on samsung TVs that when under PC mode HDR range is significantly reduced (probably because HDR is a video thing) so you shouldnt go this route unless youre not using HDR at all. Xbox one lets you manually select 8 bit setting independent of the RGB range.

 

[sn0man]

I love this thread.

The TL;DR:

1. RGB full does pass more information and if your content can take advantage of it, you get more visual detail.
2. Movies including Blu-ray movies are authored to consumer media (the discs we buy at the store) for RGB limited.
3. Due to 1 and 2 running RGB limited everywhere is a safer option as all content will be color-value scaled to the around 230 values for Red, 230 for Green, and 230 for Blue.
4. Due to 1 and 2 running RGB full everywhere for a gaming only setup provides better 255 R, 255 G, and 255 B.
5. Due to 1 and 2 running RGB full everywhere for mixed media can lead to some sources (either games or movies/video) exhibiting noticeable issues such as black crush, whiteout, and grey unvibrant picture.

Personally, having some sources (games) have slightly worse display and other media being accurate is better than having some sources (could be games e.g., WiiU or media) have more noticeable image issues.

 

[Fake]

I now have a samsung Tv and understand how the HDMI black level setting goes...
Standard - Full
Low - Limited

Normal - Full
Low - Limited

Samsung is a deepshit in that departament.

 

[sn0man]

The PS4 doesnt let you manually select a color depth setting (444 or 422 subsampling) instead it automatically seems to select 444 with full and 422 with limited, this is the only reason you would use full on ps4, not because of the black level but the chroma subsampling...and even then most TVs seem to require the input to be labeled "PC" in order to activate this..and I find on samsung TVs that when under PC mode HDR range is significantly reduced (probably because HDR is a video thing) so you shouldnt go this route unless youre not using HDR at all. Xbox one lets you manually select 8 bit setting independent of the RGB range.

My understanding on the PS4 is that there is a bandwidth limitation of either the system or the HDMI standard.

Warning, this thread is LONG.

I believe the “RGB” setting on the PS4 is chroma 444 for 1080p and 442 for 4K. It’s also not as far as I can tell a hardware limitation but more a standards limitation. Hdmi 2.0 and 18gbps and all that. Technically interesting but doesn’t matter as you can set the resolution to automatic.

if we ever see a PS4 pro slim I could see them releasing a hdmi2.1 but with ps5 coming soon I wouldn’t count on a PS4 pro slim ever coming

 

[xion4360]

My understanding on the PS4 is that there is a bandwidth limitation of either the system or the HDMI standard.

Warning, this thread is LONG.

I believe the “RGB” setting on the PS4 is chroma 444 for 1080p and 442 for 4K. It’s also not as far as I can tell a hardware limitation but more a standards limitation. Hdmi 2.0 and 18gbps and all that. Technically interesting but doesn’t matter as you can set the resolution to automatic.

if we ever see a PS4 pro slim I could see them releasing a hdmi2.1 but with ps5 coming soon I wouldn’t count on a PS4 pro slim ever coming

4K 60 444 is still within bandwidth so it should display..obviously once you start up HDR it drops to 422

Normal - Full
Low - Limited

Samsung is a deepshit in that departament.

LOL youre right ..god why cant they just call it what it is..

 

[sn0man]

4K 60 444 is still within bandwidth so it should display..obviously once you start up HDR it drops to 422

thank you. I couldn’t remember as I’ve read that thread like 6 months ago.

 

[JohnnyFootball]

The great thing about HDMI 2.1 is that it will be able to output full RGB for 4K at full 10-bit 4:4:4 (RGB) at 120 frames per second. Scarlett and PS5 should not be expected to come anywhere remotely close to that.

For reference HDMI 2.0 allows a maximum of 18 GBps, meaning anything in the chart above that exceeds 18GBps is NOT supported by most current TVs (exceptions are LG C9 OLED whicg uses HDMI 2.1)

HDMI 2.1 allows for 48GBps bandwidth, which if you look at the chart is almost fast enough to drive full 12-bit RGB at 4K 120 fps. It's not completely clear if that includes HDR or not. Right now, LGs 2019 OLEDs are currently the only TVs that can support HDMI 2.1. Expect HDMI 2.1 TVs to get introduced in 2020 and next gen consoles to also implement some of the features.

Also, somebody correct me if I'm wrong, but my understanding is that 4:4:4 chroma subsampling and RGB at the same color depth are practically the same thing.

 

[JohnnyFootball]

My understanding on the PS4 is that there is a bandwidth limitation of either the system or the HDMI standard.

Warning, this thread is LONG.

I believe the “RGB” setting on the PS4 is chroma 444 for 1080p and 442 for 4K. It’s also not as far as I can tell a hardware limitation but more a standards limitation. Hdmi 2.0 and 18gbps and all that. Technically interesting but doesn’t matter as you can set the resolution to automatic.

if we ever see a PS4 pro slim I could see them releasing a hdmi2.1 but with ps5 coming soon I wouldn’t count on a PS4 pro slim ever coming

Correct. HDMI 2.0 is limited to 4K 60 fps at RGB 8-bit OR 4:2:2 chroma subsampling (the much much better or the two). In theory, if you placed a 30 fps limit on the PS4 it could output 10-bit (~11 GBps) or even 12-bit RGB (~13.3 GBps).
Not only will HDMI 2.1 give you full RGB (4:4:4) at 10-bit and 12-bit at 4K/60fps, but will definitely give you full 10-bit color at 120 fps for 4K.

Beyond that I don't know since TVs aren't likely to gave refresh rates above 120 Hz it won't matter much.

 

[Hostile_18]

I've been experimenting with Rgb levels on the console and tv after seeing alot more shadow detail on HDR games with High/full on the tv hdmi settings.

Basically as far as it relates to games the mismatch of console low, tv high gives way more shadow detail. Presumably detail we were never meant to see. While it looked washed out it gave detail no other settings matched (by quite a margin surprisingly). Tv low-console high gave no benefits just black crush.

Obviously neither are practical as they have to match. Both High-High and Low-Low gave identical pictures.

I'm happy to have it on one of the latter now as I know that detail was never meant to be seen rather than me missing out on it. Presumably this is the same with HDR gaming (try it yourself so much more shadow detail but obviously as a cost we don't want).

 

[DeepEnigma]

I have a Sony 4K, and I let the TV and PS3/PS4 stay on 'auto', and it defaults to full RGB for both.

 

[Hostile_18]

I have a Sony 4K, and I let the TV and PS3/PS4 stay on 'auto', and it defaults to full RGB for both.

That's good as long as it switches to limited for Blu Rays etc.

I know the auto feature can be bugged for some users but it works with my Panasonic OLED also.