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[Greggy]

You can still believe that and still have cross gen games at the start of a generation. Resogun came to PS3 and Vita after PS4....so...you clearly can believe in generations and still do some cross gen titles at the start of a generation.

I also don't believe Sony nor MS believed they'd be releasing new systems during a pandemic.

Hum.. then pandemic argument doesn't hold because both of those consoles are selling at a record pace, probably because of the pandemic ironically.
PS5 wil probably be the fastest console to ever reach 10 Million sales. There's nothing in the pace of sales that should have caught Jim Ryan off guard in terms of which platform to release Ragnarok on.
How many units did he think would have shipped by December 2021? 20 million?
You're being naive.

 

[Greggy]

Jim's words

"We do believe in generations, and whether it's the DualSense controller, whether it's the 3D audio, whether it's the multiple ways that the SSD can be used... we are thinking that it is time to give the PlayStation community something new, something different, that can really only be enjoyed on PS5.""

So, what's is the problem, Xbox fan??

I bet the whole Digital Foundry team are xbox fans too, in your "objective" eyes.
I checked my old PS4 pro and didn't find a dualsense controller, 3d audio or ssd in it. Jim must have been high. I'll chalk it up to that.
Happy, Sony fan?

 

[EDMIX]

Hum.. then pandemic argument doesn't hold because both of those consoles are selling at a record pace

That doesn't mean it has not effected development. I don't know why thought that whole point was solely about sales as the pandemic as effected many areas of many peoples lives to really believe I just mean unit sales or something lol.

So what could have caught the world off guard is the pandemic itself. That very much could have shifted how they developed as the entire world had to deal with that shift too.

How many units did he think would have shipped by December 2021? 20 million?
You're being naive.

You're arguing a narrative and a comment that was never made...

I never once said anything about sales in regards to the pandemic effecting things. So we don't know how much is being delayed in terms of games based on the pandemic, but that change likely also got them thinking about adding platforms to other install bases like the PS4 which isn't really shocking as that isn't a new thing for Sony.

So I'd argue you are being naive for not even seeing they have a history of this.

This isn't as massive as a story as many want it to be tbh. A Sony system has cross gen titles? SHOCK /s. Thats very normal for this publisher.

edit. In fact, even looking at the very interview you are talking about, this man never fucking states ANYTHING about that quote being about NO CROSS GEN GAMES EVER, nothing, you are simply trying to force that argument, nothing in that interview states anything that is unusual or new for PS. You would have a harder time finding even 1 PlayStation after PS1 that didn't have a cross gen game by this publisher. The very thing you are asking for isn't even something they've done before to really be making it sound like the term being used means them doing some 180 or doing something different etc. Sorry man, you just sound like you want to argue about the quote and not the context of the quote.

 

[Little Chicken]

If Jimbecile had been honest from the start this wouldn't be an issue and nobody would be discussing it.

 

[Tomeru]

Don’t let a lack of imagination dictate what is actually possible on next gen. This is the point, restrictions to what is in memory at any point in time are no longer part of the narrow path.

That goes both ways though. Dont let your imagination run wild on what can be done, or you will be disappointed. There are limits to everything.

 

[Greggy]

That doesn't mean it has not effected development. I don't know why thought that whole point was solely about sales as the pandemic as effected many areas of many peoples lives to really believe I just mean unit sales or something lol.

So what could have caught the world off guard is the pandemic itself. That very much could have shifted how they developed as the entire world had to deal with that shift too.



You're arguing a narrative and a comment that was never made...

I never once said anything about sales in regards to the pandemic effecting things. So we don't know how much is being delayed in terms of games based on the pandemic, but that change likely also got them thinking about adding platforms to other install bases like the PS4 which isn't really shocking as that isn't a new thing for Sony.

So I'd argue you are being naive for not even seeing they have a history of this.

This isn't as massive as a story as many want it to be tbh. A Sony system has cross gen titles? SHOCK /s. Thats very normal for this publisher.

I'm sorry but what's your point? The pandemic delayed the development cycle and therefore God of War, GT7 and Horizon all have to release on PS4 also? If anything I would expect you to make the opposite conclusion, since the pandemic related delay probably gave the PS5 user base more time to grow.
The logic is lost on me here.

 

[FatKingBallman]

I bet the whole Digital Foundry team are xbox fans too, in your "objective" eyes.
I checked my old PS4 pro and didn't find a dualsense controller, 3d audio or ssd in it. Jim must have been high. I'll chalk it up to that.
Happy, Sony fan?

You'll be surprised which are they. One is with glasses, one is a dictator ( especially this one, always find excuses if some game doesn't run good on XSeries as on PS5 )

You didn't found a DualSense, nor 3D audio and SSD in you PS4 Pro. Good, because it is a next-gen only. Yes, i'm a happy Sony fan, Xbox fan.

 

[FunkMiller]

This isn't as massive as a story as many want it to be tbh. A Sony system has cross gen titles? SHOCK /s. Thats very normal for this publisher.

Not for first party.

 

[Shmunter]

That goes both ways though. Dont let your imagination run wild on what can be done, or you will be disappointed. There are limits to everything.

Imagination running wild is the cornerstone for invention and creativity.

Let the reality of limitations govern what can be achieved.

 

[EDMIX]

The pandemic delayed the development cycle and therefore God of War, GT7 and Horizon all have to release on PS4 also? If anything I would expect you to make the opposite conclusion, since the pandemic related delay probably gave the PS5 user base more time to grow.

The longer development time can recoup the losses they took from the delays from the pandemic with a new sku.......


Soooooo it makes much more sense as its more money, more people get to play the game and they recoup the money from all those delays......

aka logic.

FunkMiller "Not for first party" False.

Can you name me 1 PS system after PS1 that did not have any cross gen titles at or around launch or at all?

So...I think you greatly need to think about this, read the thread and look it up. Shit, I'm a massive PS fan and even I forgot just how much Sony supported their past systems when they launched new systems. This is not new for Sony. Like I said, look this up first.

 

[FatKingBallman]

If Jimbecile had been honest from the start this wouldn't be an issue and nobody would be discussing it.

He was, just people and surely you didn't read what he said. His full qoute is on previous page.

 

[FatKingBallman]

Not for first party. They've never done it before

Wrong. They did.

 

[Clear]

I do not believe it is not subtractive. At best it is a new version that requires an additional team and money to port down which hurts the title profitability (I do not think titles are selling so well on PS4 to justify it if there is a PS5 version present, Ryan and Hulst will need to listen to the data one day…).

I covered this point in my post. Internal review will dictate whether to proceed or not. This is evident based on Playstation studios' product being a mixture of PS5 only and PS4/PS5 versions.

The plain fact is that if they could profitably do PS4 versions of Demons' Souls and Returnal, why wouldn't they? Its about opportunity cost, timescaling, and potential return on investment as to which why they'll go.

Anything is possible. It just comes at varying levels of risk and expense. Even if a variant build was farmed out to an external party everyone involved will have shared access to code and data repositories, with the lead SKU dev-team contributing to the master branch and the sub SKU teams deriving their stuff from that. Lead remains lead.

Is it more work? Of course. But that's only an issue if there's a lot of pressure to deliver a certain day/date. Give me a well-run multiplatform project over a single-SKU clusterfuck of strategic-steering mismanagement and creative vacillation any day of the week.

The specific issue with the Xbox scenario is the shared GDK feeding into 5 distinct variant profiles all bound together via the whole smart-delivery mechanism. Doubly so as the two Series SKU's being basically the same in terms of hardware feature-set but at different configurations in terms of memory and bandwidth. That leaves zero wiggle-room for diversification in approach between the Series SKU's because they basically are the same, just one is weaker than the other.

There is no comparable restriction on the Playstation side. You either spec for PS4 family and go up to PS5, or vice-versa. With clear distinctions in hardware and user interface featureset intrinsic to the implementation.

 

[Hendrick's]

Next we need them to call out their shitty crossplay policy.

 

[phil_t98]

You have a best examples of the SSD usage - Returnal and Ratchet. No need to ignore it, Xbox fans

lol so defending them, the big hitters are gonna be effected by being cross gen. yes Rachel looks awesome and I can’t wait to try it but using the odd game to defend the decision of putting the big hitters being cross gen is pointless

 

[TBiddy]

That leaves zero wiggle-room for diversification in approach between the Series SKU's because they basically are the same, just one is weaker than the other.

Can you elaborate on that? Which lack of diversification are you referring to?

 

[Flutta]

Haters gona hate and all that. When DF stops riding that M$ stick i will taket them seriously

 

[Guilty_AI]

For one no slow walking, slow opening doors, slow swimming in boats, slow climbing and slow elevators and slow portals created to hide loading from players. You know basically half of last God of War.

I played ps360 games without any of those things. Actually, scratch that, ps2 era games.

 

[Guilty_AI]

Not really, its just that theres always hype when nextgen games are shown, people start exagerrating stuff and saying that this game is only nextgen capable when it isnt, i thought some bullshots from forbidden west look nextgen only but i still had doubts.

So... aren't you basically agreeing with me then?

 

[FunkMiller]

FunkMiller "Not for first party" False.

Wrong. They did.

What first party games were cross gen last time? Or the time before? Honestly want to know, as all I hear is a lot of people saying this isn't a strategy Sony have used in the past. I don't remember any major games being cross gen before, but happy to stand corrected.

 

[Tomeru]

Imagination running wild is the cornerstone for invention and creativity.

Let the reality of limitations govern what can be achieved.

Oh I'm sorry, I thought the point was consumer expectations.

 

[Banjo64]

Well, considering we have a 12 page thread where PlayStation fans themselves were adamant, vocal, and proud that Ryan was firing shots at Phil Spencer, Halo Infinite, cross-gen games, and Xbox's strategy as a whole... yeah. Nice attempt at gas lighting - trying to walk it back by pretending no one thought Ryan was mocking Xbox's strategy just makes you look silly.

The takes in that thread are really something.

P Panajev2001a I am genuinely confused by your stance on all of this. You are saying people are taking things out of context, but you yourself didn’t seem to believe Sony would do cross-gen.

In January 2020 you wrote this;

What a disingenuous statement. The generationless model (outside of the PC world where you can buy and assemble all your parts yourselves) is about increasing revenue and profit margins and Sony is the greedy af one .

Abandoning console users are droughts before the new system comes out is not what they do (Sony kept swinging at the tail end of ALL their console generations hence you got TLoU at the end of last generation, GT4 at the end of the previous, and many other big titles... are GoT and TLoU2 now... they even made exclusive titles for the previous generation when the new generation was already out).

Sony has always had long generations very well supported with software before and after the new generation titles are out, but they use their first party studios to make sure gamers get the best out of the new generation machines as soon as possible. A cross generation title costs a lot more to make or screws over the new console or the old console. Consoles are not just locked down PC, I want to see developers also focusing on the new console while I can also carry over my previous, maybe enhanced, library with BC (software is the biggest investment after all).

This was the message you were responding to;

because back then it was impossible to develop games for PS3 and PS4. Completely different architectures.
With PS4 and PS5 it doesn’t make any sense. They could easily develop for both at the same time.
They only reason why Sony is not doing this, is because they are greedy af.
If Microsoft would do this, people would say here that Microsoft is abandoning their lastgen System way too fast.
bow that Sony is doing it, its suddenly great abe gamer friendly strategy. Lol

oh the irony.

So correct me if I’m wrong, but now that Sony are doing ‘the generationless model’ you agree that they are greedy?

Also something seems to have given you the impression that Sony would do what they did previously (support the PS4 and PS5 separately, with the PS4 getting its own exclusive games late in the generation like how the PS3 got GT6/TLoU and how the PS2 got GT4 and GoD of War 2), did Jim Ryan’s interview give you that impression or was it just an educated guess?

This part in particular seems to show that you weren’t expecting titles like GoW, Horizon and GT7 to be cross-gen?

but they use their first party studios to make sure gamers get the best out of the new generation machines as soon as possible. A cross generation title costs a lot more to make or screws over the new console or the old console.

This isn’t a shit post I just genuinely don’t understand your position.

 

[kuncol02]

I played ps360 games without any of those things. Actually, scratch that, ps2 era games.

PS2 had order of magnitude faster loading times in comparison to PS4.
PS2 had 5MB/s drive and 8MB of RAM and PS4 has 80MB/s HDD with 8GB of RAM.

 

[FatKingBallman]

What first party games were cross gen last time? Or the time before? Honestly want to know, as all I hear is a lot of people saying this isn't a strategy Sony have used in the past. I don't remember any major games being cross gen before, but happy to stand corrected.

Flower, Resogun, Soundshapes were all cross-gen titles. PS4/PS3/PSVita, MLBs PS3/PS4/PSV. MLBs, 07-11 i think it was PS2-PS3-PSP

lol so defending them, the big hitters are gonna be effected by being cross gen. yes Rachel looks awesome and I can’t wait to try it but using the odd game to defend the decision of putting the big hitters being cross gen is pointless

Talking about defending, but look who is so deliberately ignorant.

 

[Guilty_AI]

PS2 had order of magnitude faster loading times in comparison to PS4.
PS2 had 5MB/s drive and 8MB of RAM and PS4 has 80MB/s HDD with 8GB of RAM.

Thats some really backwards next-gen concept then.

Also, i still played ps3 and ps4 era games withouth any of the things you mentioned too.

 

[FatKingBallman]

PS2 had order of magnitude faster loading times in comparison to PS4.
PS2 had 5MB/s drive and 8MB of RAM and PS4 has 80MB/s HDD with 8GB of RAM.

Memory: 32 MB RDRAM(system), 4MB eDRAM(video)

 

[FunkMiller]

Flower, Resogun, Soundshapes were all cross-gen titles. PS4/PS3/PSVita, MLBs PS3/PS4/PSV. MLBs, 07-11 i think it was PS2-PS3-PSP

Hmmm. Okay. I'm not sure those games are quite on the same level of being a major release like God Of War, Horizon or Gran Turismo though, eh? I think I - and many others can be forgiven for forgetting that small games like those (and some baseball shit) were cross gen.

Also, Resogun only came out on other platforms a year after its initial release. Same with Soundshapes. And Flower was originally on the Ps3 and didn't come out on Ps4 until four years later.

...you haven't really helped your argument much here, to be honest.

 

[Dr.D00p]

Lol, DF Direct.

..'Our weekly go at triggering the low hanging fruit of NeoGaf's Sony fanboy army'

 

[rickybooby87]

Just checked out the following:

Gran Turismo 7 - Exclusive PS5 & PS4 Games | PlayStation

Gran Turismo™ 7 brings you the best features from the history of the franchise. Find your line.

www.playstation.com

and it stills shows PS5, no mention of PS4 like their other cross-gen games. How dare they continue to lie to us.

Also, some of the cross gen announcements are not new (09/2020):

Sony Believes in Generations, But Confirmed a Bunch of PS5 Games for PS4

Cross-gen chaos

www.pushsquare.com

Some of you are being ate alive by the 24 hour news cycle of vidja games.

 

[FatKingBallman]

Hmmm. Okay. I'm not sure those games are quite on the same level of being a major release like God Of War, Horizon or Gran Turismo though, eh? I think I - and many others can be forgiven for forgetting that small games like those (and some baseball shit) were cross gen.

Also, Resogun only came out on other platforms a year after its initial release. Same with Soundshapes. And Flower was originally on the Ps3 and didn't come out on Ps4 until four years later.

...you haven't really helped your argument much here, to be honest.

True that, my mistake.

Nevertheless, Sony did it before. MLB counts.

 

[John Wick]

100% agree. Would be dishonest to not do it because they did the same with Xbox about crossgen.


Now, I find strange that gaming media that bash Xbox for crossgen is in silent about Sony crossgen.
Crossgen games are not 100% dedicated softwares to that machine, so PS5 is not using his full potential. Every tech guy know this.

And one last thing, the level of fanboys defending this are impressive. Actually, defending Sony the 'right to make profit'... They're not so different from Nintendo fanboys.

This is the reason why I hate Jim Ryan. He needs to be gone ASAP. Why mention we believe in generations then make all your main games crossgen? He had one job to do which was keep his mouth shut and let the games do the talking.....
After MS said their games were gonna be crossgen Jimbo just couldn't help himself. He had to put his foot in it. Be upfront the games quality would do the rest. They deserve this flak. Just as Good ol Jimbo said why would anyone want to play old games. The guy is out of touch. We need someone with some charisma like Kaz, Jack even Shaun.

 

[KingT731]

PS2 had order of magnitude faster loading times in comparison to PS4.
PS2 had 5MB/s drive and 8MB of RAM and PS4 has 80MB/s HDD with 8GB of RAM.

Exactly. The HDD speeds only got between 15-20x faster while needing to fill 1000x more RAM.

 

[EDMIX]

What first party games were cross gen last time? Or the time before? Honestly want to know, as all I hear is a lot of people saying this isn't a strategy Sony have used in the past. I don't remember any major games being cross gen before, but happy to stand corrected.

Yea thats the issue, stop relying on memory alone, in your defense generally speaking the majority of the Gaming Community tends to forget launches when they think back at gaming Generations they think of the biggest generation-defining generational exclusives stuff like a God of war, Assassins Creed or The Last of Us or Grand Theft Auto V or some other exclusive game to a specific generation of systems or something.

So it's not really your fault or anybody else's fault that we think that way about those Generations because I myself completely fucking forgot about so many cross-generational games because to be honest if you're not looking for it it's going to be difficult to remember.

Resogun is easily in my top five most played game on PlayStation 4, stuff like Battlefield 4, Battlefield 5 etc I easily put in the ballpark of 400 to 500 hours... I fucking forgot Resogun also released on PlayStation 3 and Vita, even as a massive fan...I completely forgot that happened.

I also forgot stuff like the crew actually released on 360 or stuff like gun or Tony Hawk Wasteland released on Playstation 2 as well as 360

But I also forgot MLB The Show releasing cross-generation or back when it was just MLB.

Looking closely at just a few examples I realized not a single Playstation system has ever actually released with zero cross-generational titles (outside of PlayStation one but that goes without saying).

So I understand why the community is reacting this way to some degree and I believe it's simply because we're relying on our memories of how fondly we think of this generation but I think a lot of us need to take a step back and remember how this generation and many generations start instead of pretending as if exclusive next-generation content was a normal thing.

So I'll list it all so we can move on.

PS2 MLB series released on both PS1 and PS2.

PS3. MLB The Show released on not only PS2, but PS3 and PSP (this is where lots of community sees the support long term for past systems by Sony as this time they literally supported 3 systems with releases)

PS4. MLB The Show releases on PS4, PS3 and PS Vita for several releases.

PSP Launched with some too and continued to actually have cross generational stuff, that NHL game by Sony released on both PS2 and PSP.

PS Vita is the same deal, stuff like Modnation racers, MLB, Super Star Dust etc.

Just using 1 IP alone I can prove its simply not a new thing by Sony. Titles like Resogun have a PS4,PS3 and Vita version. DC Universe released on PS4, has a PS3 version, at the time that was a Sony IP before they sold it. Even looking at when Sony did the NBA stuff, its also cross generation when new systems release.

 

[FunkMiller]

Nevertheless, Sony did it before. MLB counts.

Okay, but one baseball game doesn't really lend much credence to the argument that Sony have had a cross gen strategy at any other stage before in the Playstation's history. They haven't.

 

[GymWolf]

Edit: meh, it's not worth it to fight for this shit.

 

[Bernd Lauert]

Apparently having one sports game be cross-gen now means Sony has a history of doing first party cross-gen games so it's not a big deal

 

[FatKingBallman]

Okay, but one baseball game doesn't really lend much credence to the argument that Sony have had a cross gen strategy at any other stage before in the Playstation's history. They haven't.

No need to ignore it nor spin it. If they've done it before, then they've done it. They didn't released one baseball game, they've released bunch of them.

Forgot to mention LittleBigPlanet 3 which was PS3/PS4 title.

 

[FunkMiller]

Yea thats the issue, stop relying on memory alone, in your defense generally speaking the majority of the Gaming Community tends to forget launches when they think back at gaming Generations they think of the biggest generation-defining generational exclusives stuff like a God of war, Assassins Creed or The Last of Us or Grand Theft Auto V or some other exclusive game to a specific generation of systems or something.

So it's not really your fault or anybody else's fault that we think that way about those Generations because I myself completely fucking forgot about so many cross-generational games because to be honest if you're not looking for it it's going to be difficult to remember.

Resogun is easily in my top five most played game on PlayStation 4, stuff like Battlefield 4, Battlefield 5 etc I easily put in the ballpark of 400 to 500 hours... I fucking forgot Resogun also released on PlayStation 3 and Vita, even as a massive fan...I completely forgot that happened.

I also forgot stuff like the crew actually released on 360 or stuff like gun or Tony Hawk Wasteland released on Playstation 2 as well as 360

But I also forgot MLB The Show releasing cross-generation or back when it was just MLB.

Looking closely at just a few examples I realized not a single Playstation system has ever actually released with zero cross-generational titles (outside of PlayStation one but that goes without saying).

So I understand why the community is reacting this way to some degree and I believe it's simply because we're relying on our memories of how fondly we think of this generation but I think a lot of us need to take a step back and remember how this generation and many generations start instead of pretending as if exclusive next-generation content was a normal thing.

So I'll list it all so we can move on.

PS2 MLB series released on both PS1 and PS2.

PS3. MLB The Show released on not only PS2, but PS3 and PSP (this is where lots of community sees the support long term for past systems by Sony as this time they literally supported 3 systems with releases)

PS4. MLB The Show releases on PS4, PS3 and PS Vita for several releases.

PSP Launched with some too and continued to actually have cross generational stuff, that NHL game by Sony released on both PS2 and PSP.

PS Vita is the same deal, stuff like Modnation racers, MLB, Super Star Dust etc.

Just using 1 IP alone I can prove its simply not a new thing by Sony. Titles like Resogun have a PS4,PS3 and Vita version. DC Universe released on PS4, has a PS3 version, at the time that was a Sony IP before they sold it. Even looking at when Sony did the NBA stuff, its also cross generation when new systems release.

Resogun only came out on Ps3 a year later. This is not the same as God Of War releasing at the same time on Ps4 and Ps5. I'll concede on the MLB games, but one single franchise is not a good enough argument to say that Sony have always had a strategy of cross gen release when a new console is out. And why are you bringing up third party games like DC Universe and Tony Hawk? No point mentioning the handheld games either, as that's not a cross gen thing between two distinct console generations.

 

[FatKingBallman]

Resogun only came out on Ps3 a year later. This is not the same as God Of War releasing at the same time on Ps4 and Ps5. I'll concede on the MLB games, but one single franchise is not a good enough argument to say that Sony have always had a strategy of cross gen release when a new console is out. And why are you bringing up third party games like DC Universe and Tony Hawk?

Please continue to spin it. C'mon, Xbox fans, spin it to the death that Sony didn't release cross-gen games before. MLB games and LittleBigPlanet doesn't counts.

 

[FunkMiller]

Please continue to spin it. C'mon, Xbox fans, spin it to the death that Sony didn't release cross-gen games before.

Fuck me... anyone who doesn't just agree that Sony are wonderful all of the time is an XBox fan? Grow the fuck up.

I've been on this forum for years and have always been a Playstation fan, but I'm big enough and old enough to be able to accept it when they do something bad.

FML, this console war shit is pathetic.

 

[FatKingBallman]

Fuck me... anyone who doesn't just agree that Sony are wonderful all of the time is an XBox fan? Grow the fuck up.

I've been on this forum for years and have always been a Playstation fan, but I'm big enough and old enough to be able to accept it when they do something bad.

FML, this console war shit is pathetic.

If you're a PlayStation fan, then surely you need to know the history of released Sony's cross-gen titles in the past. What is worse, you deliberately continue to ignore it.

Also, regarding Resogun, game was simultaneously released on PS3/PSV.

FunkMiller , i'm sorry for calling you like that.

 

[SLB1904]

I can't find any source about Everwild and Avowed being XOne games. Their trailers don't have info about platforms at all.
Are you suggesting that Obsidian and Rare are lying?

Avowed

avowed.obsidian.net

Rare Games – Everwild

Find out about Rare’s upcoming project in development alongside Sea of Thieves

www.rare.co.uk

XBox page also clearly say it's Series X|S only.

Your post reads like deja vu

 

[SaucyJack]

Well you sure do defend a lot for someone who doesn't care.

As evidenced below

I think it's obvious that these cross gen decisions were made because early profit figuring done before COVID probably concluded that a lot more people would have Ps5s by now, and they're having to completely rejig their approach to compensate. Better gt7 be available on the hugely successful and widely available ps4 and pro than the storage rooms of ten thousand scalpers

Anyone saying this is some kind of deception seems to be forcing the issue a bit


That is the voice of someone who doesn't care according to them.

This. Some people just need to have something to complain and/or war about.

Obviously a major change this generation is the similarity in architecture between PS4 and 5 that easier facilitates cross-gen in a way that, say, PS3-PS4 would not. Hence all the PS3 remasters on PS4 whereas this time we have backwards compatibility and PS5 performance patches.

Would I prefer that Horizon, God of War and GT7 were next gen only? Yes. Do I feel deceived? Not really. Is my game going to be significantly worse for being cross-gen? Probably not, given dev cycles they were probably started on last Gen kit and engines.

Do Sony “believe in generations”? They clearly do, half of their first party output in the first 6/7 months of the generation has been next gen only and that's a proportion that’s only going to increase.

Have they been opaque over the cross-gen status of certain games? Horizon, no we knew almost from day one that it was cross-gen; God of War, nope as no statement was ever made about it, although people assumed; Gran Turismo, maybe as they did seem to strongly suggest that it was next-gen only.

So maybe one game where they’ve been a bit misleading about cross-gen. Boo them.

 

[phil_t98]

Flower, Resogun, Soundshapes were all cross-gen titles. PS4/PS3/PSVita, MLBs PS3/PS4/PSV. MLBs, 07-11 i think it was PS2-PS3-PSP



Talking about defending, but look who is so deliberately ignorant.

Not at all, i am just going off what Cerny said about game design at the road to the Ps5 and hope that will change because of the PS5 and the power they have with the SSD which couldn’t be done on last gen hardware. Are you saying he is wrong when he said that?

 

[FatKingBallman]

Not at all, i am just going off what Cerny said about game design at the road to the Ps5 and hope that will change because of the PS5 and the power they have with the SSD which couldn’t be done on last gen hardware. Are you saying he is wrong when he said that?

Haven't you referred to that Sony was wrong because DFs comments on cross-gen stance?

Regarding Returnal and Ratchet Cerny wasn't wrong ( some here said he lied, LOL)

 

[Papacheeks]

I'm really trying to stay silent in all this, but at this point listening to literally people who I hold with somewhat respect for their knowledge in technical prowess I have to say my peace.

If there is something to really be angry or disappointed with it would be the PR, and overall communication from SIE to the masses including publications. Even people like Collin Moriarty who I also hold with somewhat high esteem is now acting literally like someone had pissed in his cereal.

Now let me be clear I'm not being sympathetic to SIE, contrary I'm clearing the air to what has transpired and what the reality is of these events.

Thing we know:

• GT 7, GOW, Horizon all started way before anything was available devkits wise to start developing.
• 2017,2018 is when some of these actually started somewhat production
• a lot of the work in animations, mo-cap either you decide to keep and maybe add to and enhance through updated mo-cap software and hand animation to improve, or you throw it away to create all new animation using brand new mo-cap which means cutscenes, in-game animations for characters all get replaced.
• skd's were available from my understanding in 2018, but final devkits did not go out till sometime late 2019-2020
• Knowing this what do you do in 2017,2018 when your game has been shipped and you've already got a gameplan for the next game?
• do you not start production or wait?

• My second part is if they wanted to go next gen, they would still be only able to do so much and actually have to use what they had, and have been waiting for devkits so they could actually test some of their engine tech. So none of these games would have been 2021-2022 titles.

• My other part is Saying they changed their minds, or views on how they are operating their internal studios changed because of 110-115 million PS4 owners is really absurd.
• If games like Ratchet didn't exist which are PS5 only then I would say there's more merit to the cross gen narrative.
• But we are getting ratchet this week which we've seen could really not be done on PS4 without major changes to the game itself in levels, fidelity, and overall operation in how you traverse.
• The PR, and messaging by the higher ups in not being clear is what you should be mad at not the games and their scope which people think are compromised. They started on PS4, it's the nature of putting out games all the way through your entire gen?
• 
  
• Those three titles are just casualties of being consistent. Sony Bend, one of the teams at Naughty Dog, Sucker Punch all are working on PS5 only.
• There are also PS5 only contracted titles coming as well.

My whole response boils down to people should be mad at the messaging, and PR from SIE not the developers or the games. They are doing what they are suppose to do to keep relevant and busy.

It really makes me a little perturbed that alumnus like Collin, John and the rest of people high in their field would be this short sighted and just flat out well stupid in their assessment.

 

[Greggy]

The longer development time can recoup the losses they took from the delays from the pandemic with a new sku.......


Soooooo it makes much more sense as its more money, more people get to play the game and they recoup the money from all those delays......

aka logic.

FunkMiller "Not for first party" False.

Can you name me 1 PS system after PS1 that did not have any cross gen titles at or around launch or at all?

So...I think you greatly need to think about this, read the thread and look it up. Shit, I'm a massive PS fan and even I forgot just how much Sony supported their past systems when they launched new systems. This is not new for Sony. Like I said, look this up first.

There's clearly a U-turn by Sony on next gen following Jim Ryan's "we believe in generations" interview, but it's ok if you don't want to see it.

 

[DeepEnigma]

Yeah it is ridiculous but as long as we have fans and journalists acting like free employees to the big 3, we will get nothing out of it. They’ll spin everything.

The above is straight up false advertising.

You should sue.

oops I mean,

You should sue

 

[EDMIX]

Okay, but one baseball game doesn't really lend much credence to the argument that Sony have had a cross gen strategy at any other stage before in the Playstation's history. They haven't.

Why just focus on that though? They did the same things with NHL and NBA too, are you going to tell me now that "okay, but sports games doesn't really lend" or? Come on man.

You asked, you got an answer. You literally stated "not for first party". We are merely showing you that is factually false. I don't even know how you can say they didn't have a strategy to do something ,that you clearly can see them doing. So if I say the MMO stuff you going to then say "okay, but that MMO game, those sports games, doesn't really" lol

Resogun, Soundshapes, Modnation Races, Super Star Dusk, all that will be ignored too to goal post or? Your original comment says nothing about the degree of cross gen releases, it simply states "Not for first party" and also "What first party games were cross gen". I see zero reason to ignore all of this just because this time its Spiderman and Horizon or something.

Fact of the matter is, they have released cross gen titles in the past on EVERY PS system following PS1. The tech has advanced to allow for scaling for them to do bigger AAA titles as even MS is doing this, which means the tech has a lot to do with it as they are not as limited as they were generations prior.

Resogun only came out on Ps3 a year later.

Doesn't matter. Its still a cross generational title.

I'll concede on the MLB games, but one single franchise is not a good enough

Yes it is bud, it is as your official statement was as follows.

Not for first party.

Yes with first party...here is a list of first party titles tha did it. Coming from 1 IP is irrelevant, you question states not with first party, not "not with 43 IP" or something lol

Just for lolz sake, we can name off other IP that are cross gen besides MLB, ie NBA when they had that license, NHL, Little Big Planet, Modnation Racers, oh yea the ATV series had both PSP and PS2 titles, Motorstorm also released on Both PSP and PS2. So just stop, I gave you 1 IP simply because your question can be answered by 1. Its not a degree of, you just state "not for first party" and ask what titles. It doesn't need to be some magic number as your post doesn't really state you are speaking about a degree of, or significate number or an exact amount etc.

What first party games were cross gen

As in...you are stating NOT with first party and asking what titles. You are not asking a degree of, you are not questioning HOW MUCH did Sony do or anything like that, you are simply stating Not With First Party and asking with what.

Asked and answered. The rest of your post are goal post to keep moving this shit further and further the more you are proven wrong on this. I don't mind the debate, but shit man stick with a point instead of this goal post shit lol I understand we all forgot or don't remember all generations 100% from day 1 or something and I even took deep consideration in that, but no reason to then put on this whole thing trying to fight all comments that keep showing your comment was wrong. It factually is a wrong comment...

There's clearly a U-turn by Sony on next gen

Theres not. Sorry man. Prove it. Looking back at PS2, PSP, PS3, PS4 etc the more I look at those early titles, the more this just looks like a classic PS generation in terms of some cross gen stuff. What are you going to tell me next? MLB being on Both PS4 and PS5 is a massive U-turn or? lol....are you sure about that? I just don't see enough real massive difference here to say some massive U-turn is happening. His interview is just him saying they want next gen titles in terms of those features, but shit thats pretty much the same shit that went on with PS3 ie motion controls lol So I don't see shit here man. You need to prove th difference and show us some radical thing is going on that has never gone on before, cause cross gen games by Sony isn't it.

 

[FatKingBallman]

There's clearly a U-turn by Sony on next gen following Jim Ryan's "we believe in generations" interview, but it's ok if you don't want to see it.

Talking about who didn't saw Jim Ryans interview. He was very clear in that interview.