Console optimization this gen was basically to limit FOV to ridiculously low levels, make games as linear as possible and throw away any AI achievements we had.
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Agni's Philosophy runs at 60FPS on a GTX 680, uses 1.8GB VRAM. Can next-gen run it?
- Thread starter Horse Armour
- Start date
Console optimization this gen was basically to limit FOV to ridiculously low levels, make games as linear as possible and throw away any AI achievements we had.
iamshadowlark
Banned
This is pretty much non-sense. It provides the same output. AA is AA.
not the old fiew of view thing again?!
Do you have giant wide angle lenses attached to all of your windows?
You trying to make someone name the full set of AA implementations?
That's not always the case. Optimization is about being more efficient for the specific case you're targeting, and often that involves different output.
SquiddyCracker
Banned
... 32GB of RAM?
I'm not a spec boffin, but there's no way in hell it'll run in its current form on either the Orbis, Durango, or Wii U.
The Wii U is outclassed by that PC by hella lot, the Orbis and Durango are even a couple of generations behind.
I'm not a spec boffin, but there's no way in hell it'll run in its current form on either the Orbis, Durango, or Wii U.
The Wii U is outclassed by that PC by hella lot, the Orbis and Durango are even a couple of generations behind.
I wouldn't say that. In general, "software optimizations" are transformations that maintain semantics while improving non-functional parameters (e.g. reducing execution time).
I'd be fine with that
Are you trying to imply that e.g. 4xSGSSAA and FXAA are functionally equivalent?
iamshadowlark
Banned
Lol it's not lowering IQ. AA at its base is an enhancement. The natural rendering pipeline produces aliasing . So to combat that, developers implement an AA algorithm into the pipe. There's no standard algorithm. There are dozens to choose from. GOW3 happen to optomize one based off MLAA and tweak it to there needs. The end.
There's no such thing as "console optimization", its just optimization. There are various paths you can optimize on but it's all one general concept.
mugurumakensei
Member
No, it isn't. Aside from Super Sampling, most AA solutions tend to add blurriness (Loss of Detail) or result in less color saturation(Loss of Color Detail).
Choosing a less effective AA implementation absolutely does affect IQ. Otherwise everyone would just use FXAA on PC.
iamshadowlark
Banned
Again, AA is an enhancement. Its not part of the rendering pipeline, it is added.
iamshadowlark
Banned
There would probably be trade offs. I would think so though. Especially in a turnbased RPG, which wouldn't benefit that much from 60FPS for example.
Square will probably spend alot of money and wow us with a couple games.
Does everything next gen really need to be 60FPS anyway?
Barack Lesnar
Banned
Hopefully not. The obsession with it is baffling to me. Resolution and graphics is all that matters for me personally.
Why SQEX doesn't want to licence this.
It'll end like the Crystal Tool, used by 4 title through the generation.
Paracelsus
Member
If it looks like playable CG then no, if it looks like current high-end pc games then yes.
iamshadowlark
Banned
Oh definitely not. Its a case by case thing.
APZonerunner
Member
Why SQEX doesn't want to licence this.
It'll end like the Crystal Tool, used by 4 title through the generation.
Crystal Tools was an unmitigated disaster - that's why it was used so little. I'm sure we'll see both FF/Japanese games use it but also probably some Eidos studios if this turns out well.
The big question as ever with this engine is how much will be lost once AI etc is running over the top; this stuff alone is exciting but has a ton of caveats attached.
Why SQEX doesn't want to licence this.
Probably because engine is not done, not suitable for anything than RPG's and all of its documentation is in Japanese.
witchedwiz
Member
sure, if you buy ONE..
if you buy say 500.000 graphic card paying CASH from intel/ati i doubt the price will be even REMOTELY close to retail
i'd cut it to 2/3 max, possibly even less
that is glorious
I'm sorry, that's wrong. Real anti-aliasing absolutely is part of the rendering pipeline. The only "AA" methods that are added afterwards are pure post-processing solutions, with some inherent issues.
And even if it were "added", how does this alter my point of inferior AA methods affecting IQ?
PapaJustify
Member
WAT?
Do current High-End PC games run in 60fps? On PCs that are not Ultra Extreme High-End?
Absolutely.
PapaJustify
Member
Like what for example?
Betta Lines
Member
I have a pretty average 560Ti and an older i7 870, and I generally play everything at 60fps, 1920x1200 or 1680x1050. Many games I pretty much max out, others require a bit of tuning.
iamshadowlark
Banned
SIGH.
Please tell me which part of a standard vanilla DX or OpenGL pipe AA resides in. Don't worry, I'll wait.
Stallion Free
Cock Encumbered
I'm not sure you understand how MSAA works.
Why would you be talking about the rendering pipeline in terms of APIs? That just obfuscates the issue. In any case, I'm not your 3D programming teacher.
You don't seem interested in genuine discussion, just in going further and further away from the original issue, which is your (plainly incorrect) statement that choosing a less effective AA implementation does not lower IQ. Do you still maintain that this is the case?
As long as you have the right hardware, pretty much any games can run at 60fps. For obvious reasons you will need some serious horsepower to run the best looking games at 60fps.
mugurumakensei
Member
You make your rendering buffer higher resolution than your output buffer and choose a method for interpolation during downsampling. All these things you do in OpenGL or DX.
Krauser Kat
Member
For sure. Its all depends on what you want it to look like. If we wanted our games to run at 200fps we would turn it down to less then 720p with no aa and shitty textures. So we up the ante till we get to an fps that is good enough to play but pretty enough to jack off too.
Provided they have yet to scrap that project. I imagine it would be a daunting task to update the numerous assets to next gen fidelity. It is the gift that keeps on giving.
PapaJustify
Member
Yeah I know, but he was talking about "current High-End PC games" which in my understanding is the top of the notch (like Crysis 3 for example or Assassin's Creed 3). You don't or only barely get 60fps on machines that are equal to what we know about the Next-Gen consoles.
So the next-gen consoles might still have some tricks up their sleeves, but I do not expect many games to run at 60fps.
If they make the game with 60fps in mind, like they did in the DC/PS2/XBOX/GC era then it's possible.
sechsterangriff
Member
If they did it for FFXIV, I won't be surprised if they do the same with Versus.
Crysis 2 despite how good it looks, is last gen.
The graphical ceiling goes up with the next generation games, what was easy to run in 60fps prior won't be so easy without a serious hardware upgrade.
iamshadowlark
Banned
Because some 98% of computer graphics reside in these APIs, or some form? The rendering pipeline resides mostly in the APIs, Mr 3D Programming Professor. There are distinct fundamental differences between OGL and D3D. That was always the original issue.
As far as the AA thing, lower IQ from what. Lower IQ of the raw graphics output or lower IQ vs a more robust form of AA?
I have said this before, but it wouldn't be the first time they've scrapped entire parts of the game. In fact, around March last year Nomura admitted they scrapped some real time work in favor of switching them to CGI scenes.
I'll stop the "pipeline" tangent here, since clearly you're not interested in learning, and I'm not interested in having my qualifications "cleverly" questioned by you.
If I may quote the (utterly wrong, but presented with much conviction, like most of your posts) original statement that sparked the debate:
Of course compared to another AA method.
If I may quote the (utterly wrong, but presented with much conviction, like most of your posts) original statement that sparked the debate:
iamshadowlark said:
iamshadowlark
Banned
So you're trying to tell me that this is a natural progression in a vanilla scene, or...?
Ah, I was unaware of this. Thanks. It will be intriguing nonetheless to see if the first Final Fantasy title for next gen will be Versus or not and if so whether it will be based on Luminous Engine or one of the external engines they have licensed.
Betta Lines
Member
I don't expect many games to run 60fps either, but I think your comparison to PCs is irrelevant. If they can do really pretty things at 30fps and responsiveness is slightly lower priority (most action games, most RPGs, most 'cinematic experience' games), they will do 30. If responsiveness is higher priority (sims, most competitive shooters, most sports games), they'll do 60. Simple as that.
Yep. Offline software interpolation>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Whatever you see currently on HDTVs.
iamshadowlark
Banned
Maybe I should have said a little more than "its the same output" but I think I laid my point out here: