Every generation is one with diminishing returns imo. So, we've always been there. The closer you get to realistic graphics/physics/AI, the harder it becomes to make the same leaps. By which i don't mean there can't be obvious improvements. But those improvements are likely to be just as big, if not bigger, from the software side, than the hardware side. Many multiplat xbox - xbox360 titles didn't see that much of a jump (there is an old gamespot comparison article about it) as early 360 titles compared to late 360 titles.
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BOOM, Watch Dogs now listed for Wii U at GameStop's website, I say it's a done deal
- Thread starter Hero of Legend
- Start date
Every generation is one with diminishing returns imo. So, we've always been there. The closer you get to realistic graphics/physics/AI, the harder it becomes to make the same leaps. By which i don't mean there can't be obvious improvements. But those improvements are likely to be just as big, if not bigger, from the software side, than the hardware side. Many multiplat xbox - xbox360 titles didn't see that much of a jump (there is an old gamespot comparison article about it) as early 360 titles compared to late 360 titles.
Ubisoft has this nasty habit of bullshotting their screens and videos. They did the same thing with farcry. You're not going to get the same thing you saw on the PS4 and the 720/PC. Don't fret though. I'm sure it will look pretty enough for fanboys to post gifs of it with all over the place.
Zombie James
Banned
polyh3dron
Banned
yeah this diminishing returns this was bandied about when the current gen started too. I really don't think we're there yet.
in monchi-kun's wise words:
in monchi-kun's wise words:
We're definitely there.
No. It looks like shit because no effort was put into making it look better. And considering how uncertain next gen will be business wise and how well current systems are doing, I'm gonna safely assume Ubisoft will put more effort in the PS360U release than they did on that PS2 port.
BriseFlots
Member
I'm not very surpised.
The all-connected to internet thing showed in E3 was screaming "I'm using WiiU's gamepad". Very good news still. This plus the Legends challenge mode whatever may start to restore my faith in Ubi. Well played guys.
The all-connected to internet thing showed in E3 was screaming "I'm using WiiU's gamepad". Very good news still. This plus the Legends challenge mode whatever may start to restore my faith in Ubi. Well played guys.
I mean I understand some people need to tell themselves that to feel better, but we've already seen tech demos of games utilizing power comparable to what Durango/Orbis will have, we've seen Watch Dogs (which is a super dramatic leap from, say, GTAV), and we have current maxed out PC titles to demonstrate the lie of this.
The jump is super fucking dramatic, in every conceivable way - and that's to say nothing of the probable higher resolutions we'll have and easier ability to hit key stable framerates.
Nothing will ever be as dramatic as 2D -> 3D, or PS1 -> PS2, but the jump is massive.
Of course mainstream titles sell more on consoles if you define mainstream as stuff that sells more on consoles. Any reference to "mainstream" is by definition begging the question. (That's why the word "mainstream" should be bannable in my opinion.)
Well realistically the PC they used for the E3 demo was well ahead of even what orbis and Durango offer. Sure being consoles and being able to code to metal will help a lot but we are talking about serious power divides
Which tech demos were those?
The only demos I've seen we're utilizing GTX 680(s) and high end PC CPUs.
dragonfart28
Banned
Diminishing returns already applies when you look at existing console games vs PC games. It's half the reason the PC isn't as successful a platform for devs that produce high spec games.
polyh3dron
Banned
This can be easily explained by the fact that these games are often designed with the consoles in mind (as well as less powerful PCs) and therefore are not taking full advantage of the higher end CPUs and graphics cards.
Once the Durango and Orbis consoles are released we will most likely see a huge jump in the graphical quality of PC games too since they are no longer being hampered by having to work on PS3 and 360.
First GameStop, then Best Buy, and now Amazon: http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00BGHUS3A/?tag=neogaf0e-20
The Wii U SKU is as good as confirmed, I'd say.
The Wii U SKU is as good as confirmed, I'd say.
bgassassin
Member
Imagine: Watch Dogz
exactly, it is called "diminishing returns", not "no returns"
yes there will be leaps, but not as big as before.
also the term isn't solely tied to graphical fidelity and increases but also profit. the industry is making less money, and studios closing left and right. For the amount of resources and money they are putting into their games to produce higher end graphics they are getting diminish returns in profit.
So at what point does the consumer stop caring about prettier graphics?
frankie_baby
Member
several people who are definitely 'in the know' confirmed it was in the last thread
NEVER!
dragonfart28
Banned
Still doesn't work for games that were made with PC in mind, like Witcher 2. There's just not enough people who are swayed to get it on that platform based on the visuals alone.
Another example could be a game like Planetside 2. It just doesn't have the same kind of pull as something like Halo and people don't really care for the advancement in graphics or scale.
Witcher 2 sold very well on PC. Much more than it did on the Xbox anyway, IIRC.
frankie_baby
Member
you just explained exactly why we are in the point of diminishing returns
SquiddyCracker
Banned
From what I saw in the demo, I could see the tablet being very handy. With the experience they have from zombi u I don't see them half-arsedly doing it either.
That's only because 2D -> 3D was a dimensional shift, which obviously cannot be replicated (until virtual reality?), and because PS1 was people getting used to 3D visuals and what it meant, and PS2 finally giving them the ability to take off with it. Nothing can be as big as those jumps. I think NES -> SNES and PS2 -> 360 and soon 360/PS3 -> Xbox 720/PS4 will all be similar in size, because there are massive differences already we can see. If the Watch Dog demo is accurate, all we have to do is compare it to GTAV and see how big the difference is. It's colossal. There's nothing small about that jump. Virtually every aspect of the visual presentation is better than any open world game we've seen before.
So I don't think 'diminishing returns' is at all accurate. There were REVOLUTIONARY jumps, and those types of jumps can only happen once or twice ever - and then there is the standard jump, which has been what the transition from most gens have been like, and will include the Xbox 720/PS4.
dragonfart28
Banned
It sold 1.5 million on both platforms combined and it wasn't much more on PC.
Perhaps we should wait and see more of Watch_Dogs in a more complete/playable state before we use it as a metric to decide how big of a leap this current generation is going to produce.
Felix Lighter
Member
That's an odd comparison. Planetside 2 is multiplayer only and probably didn't cost a 1/4 of Halo's marketing campaign budget to both develop and market.
GTA5 does not look like GRAW PS2 in comparison.
Do you think it's going to look worse than it did (possible, of course, because it's Ubisoft)? Because next-gen will be capable of games that look even better than Watch Dogs, so. I'm not concerned.
I think the most impressive aspect of what we've seen of Watch Dogs was the animations of NPC's and such. And someone made a very strong case for why that could've all been bullshotted for the presentation.
We'll see.
Neither Durango nor orbis have an i7 with 3xGTX 680s if you're expecting the fidelity of the e3 demo. Certainly the quality of the Wii u sku will be lower than that as well.
Worse might be a loaded term here, but I really doubt it'll look as good as the very guided reveal trailer.
Besides, I really doubt anybody is going to be that willing to put that much effort into early Durango and Orbis games. Much less an open world game like Watch_Dogs.
Neither am I, but I still wouldn't use that specific game as the metric yet.
dragonfart28
Banned
The point is still that the enhancement in graphics and scope did not give the game a natural, competitive advantage.
Isnt the point that even with the visuals of that demo the leap wont be very shocking to the average person?
partyphone
Banned
they're going to be running some flavor of HD7000. games will be written to the metal so devs will be able to get more power out of them than equivalent PC parts but don't act like they're going to be able to do things no one has ever seen before.
Schnozberry
Member
0_0 so 3D Mario + Watch_Dogs + Premium Console less than 1.5 years into the WiiU's life....
I would hate to see the situation and desperation that would pushthem to even consider this.
They're already doing it with ZombiU and Nintendoland for 389.99. Do the same deal with those games.
Wait, you think getting the visual quality of Watch Dogs is going to take 3 GTX 680s with an i7? Oh boy. Let's just say I'm pretty sure that'll be proven wrong within the first year of the systems life.
I don't want to stake that claim on Watch Dogs, if only for the simple fact that Ubisoft bullshots everything, but I am fairly secure that we'll see games that not only look as good as that, but look better.
P.S. I never quote a person's title, and I think it's disrespectful to do that when you have a thoughtful post, but damn I had to restrain myself on this one. That was like candy or some shit
Well now that everybody knows that it is going to be on those trashy last gen consoles and the one current gen console they know that it isn't going to be the amazing proof of concept of the new generation and have reconfigured their expectations accordingly.
prag16
Banned
Yeah, there will absolutely be a jump. But I don't expect it to blow people away to the point that some seem to be expecting.
I think we'll see lots of backpedaling and/or denial and/or damage control around here...
One impressive thing in Watch Dogs is the level of detail in NPCs, I think no one questioning that Orbis/Durango will be capable to do the game, what I really feel is that the cost for it must be insane, and probably no every developer will have the budget to maximize PS4/720 graphic output.
oh wow.. Best Buy too ah?
DeuceGamer
Member
Glad it's coming to Wii U, but unless there are really cool things done with the GamePad I'll probably be picking it up on Orbis/Durango (whichever I pick up Day One) if there is a significant difference in visuals/performance which I expect.
polyh3dron
Banned
Yeah I have a Wii U myself but will undoubtedly be getting the Orbis version. If I have the Orbis console there'd be no reason not to.