kaname-san
Member
But they thought life was going to be easy forever! Who are we to deny them their fantasy land?
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Go back to CA: Couples car, house vandalized (Portland, OR)
- Thread starter Dalek
- Start date
White people migrated to that area, and all it shows it that white people are still migrating to that area, just much richer ones who are probably even choosier about their neighbors.
I agree that the proper way forward is to devise a positive plan of action rather than figuring out the correct way to apportion blame. You're the one that brought up blame assignation, however.
As to the actual plan, you can't just extrapolate San Francisco's issues away from that wholly unique situation and ascribe them to other cities. The binary choices you presented are not comprehensive for one, and two, presents a false dichotomy.
fucking wew lad
Typical asshole who thinks they can roll up the carpet for anyone who came after them. You epitomize the "got mine, fuck you" attitude that's so pervasive in the PNW.
t. Puget Sound native
You most certainly can extrapolate San Fran's issues (namely limited areas in which to build and local intransigence to new housing in SFH neighborhoods) to Seattle and Portland. We've got the same issues up here.
This incident is terrible, no excuses, but I understand why people are pissed, and I live in California. People like me who have lived here our whole lives and now are trying to make it on our own, are struggling because of how insanely expensive it is here. So people leave in droves and go to places like Oregon and unfortunately make it hard for people who already live there. All this comes down to the foreign investors who bought/ buying up all the real estate here, using it as banks to stash their money and it fucks over everyone trying to live here. California really needs to be like Canada and start taxing these investors. Then, maybe young people could afford to live here and not have to leave to other states.
That's not real Oregon. You basically live in Northern California.
Did I really need to explicitly say this is sarcasm?
Raven117
Gold Member
Nah, they are just normal folks man. I mean, they aren't taking the Cali. folks out back and beating the sheet out of them. Moreover, its not like we are hearing about the wide-spread persecution of Californians.
So some locals like the way things are and now can identify a group of folks coming to the city that is affecting what they like (cost) about the city....These people aren't idiots. They just like things they way they were. It will be fine. Things change. People beetch. Its the circle of life.
They crushed all that was cool about Austin and made it an insufferable hipster haven...but hey...things change haha!
uncelestial
Member
You're literally a bad person, in your heart. And I say this as someone who lived in the PNW for 13 years and then went in the opposite direction, moving to CA.
If you really want to blame people for existing near you instead of your municipality's inability to handle people, then you're on a dark timeline, breh.
Strangely, it seems like this is quite literally San Francisco's problems becoming other cities problems. Like overpaid and under housed tech workers are fleeing like refugees, that's how bad SF got.
Google Ad game is ON POINT today.
I know how real estate works. I'm not sure that the other poster does, as he's making villains of people who just want a place to live.
It's locals that restrict development via NIMBYism.
"Who needs intelligent growth? Let the next city over GET BIG!!!"
It's locals that go with "Screw you, GOT MINE!"
"Why should we build more housing? I've got my house. The value is only going to GO UP!!!"
And Brexit was all about keeping "the other" out.
"If only those people who got priced out of CA would just stay homeless!!! How dare they move to this awesome place that we've built."
I mean, in the end, real estate boils down to demand. Real estate in high demand areas will always have value. SF is the example everyone uses because it's true. If you make a place desirable, other people will want to come.
Outside of pricing, how do you determine who has the "right" to live in any given place.
America never had birthright land ownership. That was an old, European thing.
I know how real estate works. I'm not sure that the other poster does, as he's making villains of people who just want a place to live.
It's locals that restrict development via NIMBYism.
"Who needs intelligent growth? Let the next city over GET BIG!!!"
It's locals that go with "Screw you, GOT MINE!"
"Why should we build more housing? I've got my house. The value is only going to GO UP!!!"
And Brexit was all about keeping "the other" out.
"If only those people who got priced out of CA would just stay homeless!!! How dare they move to this awesome place that we've built."
I mean, in the end, real estate boils down to demand. Real estate in high demand areas will always have value. SF is the example everyone uses because it's true. If you make a place desirable, other people will want to come.
Outside of pricing, how do you determine who has the "right" to live in any given place.
America never had birthright land ownership. That was an old, European thing.
Raven117
Gold Member
Easy killer. Geesh.
HarryDemeanor
Member
Invasion.
Now I've heard everything.
Now I've heard everything.
How very Xtian of you.
They don't hate Californians per se, they hate what some Californians are doing to their city/state ie moving in, gentrifying it, etc.
Really? Construction in Seattle has been breakneck
We factually don't have the same issues of nowhere to build, rent control, and rampant NIMBYism (though it certainly exists in well-established Seattle neighborhoods just as anywhere else, it's not nearly the same crimp on growth that it is in SF).
It's the market at work. There was no incentive for the market to have tens/hundreds of thousands of housing units on-hand awaiting a boom. Seattle simply can't absorb this many people, and blaming it on NIMBYs and da gubmint is not going to change that.
There are commonalities for sure. There are stark differences as well.
I agree with this 100%.
Bobby Roberts
Banned
Let's be crystal fuckin' clear here, though:
While the discussion has moved onto NIMBY-ism, and the provincial attitudes of Portland in general, and provincial attitudes in cities in general, and even more general stereotypical dislike of California
This act of vandalism was due to a case of road rage, more than likely, and said road rager used the shitty provincial attitudes of Portlanders throughout the decades as an excuse to vent their road rage.
There is nothing to "understand" about the sentiment behind this vandalism because the vandalism wasn't really about where this family moved from, it's about some imbalanced shitheads almost getting hit in a car and freaking out disproportionately.
While the discussion has moved onto NIMBY-ism, and the provincial attitudes of Portland in general, and provincial attitudes in cities in general, and even more general stereotypical dislike of California
This act of vandalism was due to a case of road rage, more than likely, and said road rager used the shitty provincial attitudes of Portlanders throughout the decades as an excuse to vent their road rage.
There is nothing to "understand" about the sentiment behind this vandalism because the vandalism wasn't really about where this family moved from, it's about some imbalanced shitheads almost getting hit in a car and freaking out disproportionately.
Raven117
Gold Member
There is no "right" as you said. You are of course correct in how it all plays out in the end. Im just saying you can see how locals...a community that they have been a part of for years...may not be happy with the change imparted by the market forces (as you have pointed out). So what if people bitch about it? It will happen one way or another.
As you stated, its all moot. It will happen anyway. Progress is progress. I just think its a good idea to at least acknowledge and understand some folks who may be a little irked by all this.
Unknown Soldier
Member
Portland has issues guys.
http://www.politico.com/magazine/st...americas-most-politically-violent-city-215322
We don't go toRavenholm Portland anymore.
http://www.politico.com/magazine/st...americas-most-politically-violent-city-215322
We don't go to
No, I mean the people who got fed up with the Bay area are literally moving north and becoming a new problem in other states.
Stumpokapow
listen to the mad man
A reminder that most of Oregon was seized illegally by settlers, and is territory of various indigenous peoples of the area (incl/ Walla Walla, Chinook, Klamath, Ute, etc.) -- they were eliminated by forced conversion, smallpox, and also open war against their peoples, so let's maybe stop pretending that it's a great injustice if Salt and Straw raises the prices on their Double Vegan Chocolate Beet-root Quinoa Yoga cone or whatever. At least with the San Francisco people complaining about Chinese purchases driving up the market, the complaint is people buying houses and not using them.
Bobby Roberts
Banned
Salt & Straw isn't even good ice cream
Like most "issues" with immigrants, there are fears that people coming into Oregon from Cali are bringing their culture and money with them. In particular, realtors will jack up home prices to levels where they think Californians will pay them, which raises rents and prices across the board. At least in Eugene, there isn't enough new housing being created to offset this, so it happens here, too, and not just a big city like Portland.
From what I can tell, that seems to be the main issue. So, feel free to come up here, just don't go waving a bunch of money around if you have it?
Earthbound64
Banned
You (or the poster I originally replied to) brought up "blame" by saying they understand people being mad at outsiders. I replied that it is stupid to be mad at people who just want to move somewhere rather than their local government for not reacting to the situation properly.
I chose SF as an example to show you that even places with geographical limitations still have certain policies under their control. Most other cities should be able to deal with the problem EASIER than SF.
And those actually are the comprehensive choices. Anything you do is either to:
1. Create more homes for people to live in or
2. Result in less people living there/wanting to live there
For another example, rent control makes it easier for existing people to live in a city, and harder for new people to move in, so that falls under category two..
friskykillface
Banned
Evan Turner too, take that L Portland
I'd just set up video cameras if I moved from California
Livingskeletons
If I pulled that off, would you die?
Yup it's always been a weird thing out west.
Oregon hates California. Northern California hates Southern California. Southern California doesn't care.
The Jazz Cabbage Master
Member
🙏
Manifest Destiny and American Exceptionalism in 2017.
There's nowhere anywhere that doesn't have at least some assholes and hate.
Vancouver? If you move there you don't have to deal with this kind of attitude, the city's developing land like crazy. You will have to deal with being perennially looked down upon by Portlanders.
shaowebb
Member
It's a thing. It shows up in a lot of articles and vids on pros and cons of moving to Portland. I've been looking at stuff out there and it's pretty documented.
DUFFMCWALIN
Member
Your skeptical of me getting a better opportunity that requires me to move? FUCKING REALLY?
Don't worry, I'm not wealthy at all.
FantasticMrFoxdie
Mumber
OR people reaaaaaly don't like californians from what i've heard.
Years ago it sounded funny, but now thats just stupid. West coast has to stick together in these trying times.
Years ago it sounded funny, but now thats just stupid. West coast has to stick together in these trying times.
I am asking a place that is not full of assholes, cause every thread is about shitty people all over the US.
TheCochese
Banned
It's what our country was founded on.
There's lots of places to get jobs. Make sure to pick a good one that jives with you and your personality.
I wonder if that post is causing consternation because people might read "skepticism" to imply a mutual exclusivity. That was not the intent if it came across like that.
shadowstew
Member
Damn, first Portland steals Austin's Keep Weird slogan and now Austin's irrational hatred towards California transplants.
Can't believe this.
Can't believe this.
kaname-san
Member
Washougal to be precise. I would rather live here in the forest anyway so I don't need to worry about all the angry people.
People being decent human beings rarely makes the news.
sir_kevith
Member
Gotta steal good bbq next
The housing market is pretty rough in Oregon, and in Portland specifically and a few of the surrounding areas like Eugene, OR.
There are a ton of people moving into the state, a large portion of which is from California. And very few people moving out of the state. This is causing a lot of turmoil in the housing market. Eugene, for example, saw a 16% increase from 2016-2017 in housing prices due to demand.
In Portland, for sale signs on houses were being tagged with "No Californians allowed" on them.
n0razi
Member
I saw a lot of this in Texas (Austin and Dallas in particular)... TONS of Californians moving to Dallas right now so median prices of homes in the area have gone from $250k to $400k+ within a year. Also, seen some of this in Seattle but its mostly 'anti mainland Chinese' over there and in Vancouver.
Dr. Feel Good
Banned
Which is odd... downtown Vancouver is like a stone throw away from everything of Portland and it's actually not that bad of an area. Definitely more quiet and seems to cater to families but I didn't mind it the few times I was over there.
That is just what makes for good news stories these days. Everywhere I've been is mostly good people.
Except for maybe the mid Atlantic.
Yeah, Seattle was all about hating Californians in the 80s up through the mid 90s. The "natives" have moved on now to hating Chinese people and Indians. Even though overwhelmingly the people moving here are white Americans. It's pretty fucking gross.