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1Up Show 10.10 (Tomb Raider Underground, MK vs DC Universe, Killzone 2 multi beta)

Click

Banned
Clinton514 said:
Very good points. On a personal level I just cannot stand the amount of aim-assist in games like COD4, R2 & H3. As someone who started on PC with shooters I like the manual feel. I do understand that with console shooters there is some compensation that needs to be made because of the analog sticks.

I'm just picky like that. :D

I completely understand why people hate auto-aim and excessive lock-on assist in FPSs. In fact, it's one of the few legit gripes I have with R2's Competitive.

However, people should keep in mind, "mainstream" and casual video gamers just aren't very good at FPSs. Even with so much auto-aim/lock-on assist, tons of gamers still get owned by the good players.

I guess the opposing argument is, "well, don't penalize the hardcore players for shitty players' ineptitude." Or "casual players will eventually get better and learn how to play." Developers must find ways to both please the hardcore fans, as well as try and help casuals enjoy the game. Sometimes you alienate the minority, in order to please the majority.
 

sykoex

Lost all credibility.
Wollan said:
Isn't it a question about execution?
No other game replicates weight and controlling a real person as well as KZ2, not remotely. Capture the flag like modes is present in almost all shooters but when did you last carry around speakers spouting recordings with actors like Brian Cox shouting propaganda. I mean that's two examples but every gameplay aspect has that amount of polish to it. People mention heaps of different games where you find these different gameplay features but they're all present in KZ2 and they're brilliantly implemented.
Yeah, the problem is that most of the people trying to argue against the merits of the beta haven't actually played it.
 

~Devil Trigger~

In favor of setting Muslim women on fire
Wollan said:
Isn't it a question about execution?
No other game replicates weight and controlling a real person as well as KZ2, not remotely. Capture the flag like modes is present in almost all shooters but when did you last carry around speakers spouting recordings with actors like Brian Cox shouting propaganda. I mean that's two examples but every gameplay aspect has that amount of polish to it. People mention heaps of different games where you find these different gameplay features but they're all present in KZ2 and they're brilliantly implemented.

Mirror's Edge gives me good weight feel, but its not a shooter so i cant compare really.
 

Kittonwy

Banned
Stoney Mason said:
Not being a smart ass but isn't this essentially like one bomb in halo where it's placed in the middle and you have to fight to get it between the two teams and then plant it on the other side.

It may not be of course but your description didn't exactly do it justice. (You may have been going for brevity)

It's not quite like that but you CAN see the speaker on your map, you have to bring it to a certain spot that only your faction would know while the other team is trying to do the same, and the longer it rests in that spot the more the propaganda builds and the closer your faction is to victory, it's not easy to defend so it makes it much less frustrating for the other team to get the speaker back. The other team can kill your team member while he's carrying the speaker, and take the speaker instead of in CTF where the defending team touches the flag and it respawn back at home then camp the flag.
 

Ploid 3.0

Member
Wollan said:
Isn't it a question about execution?
No other game replicates weight and controlling a real person as well as KZ2, not remotely. Capture the flag like modes is present in almost all shooters but when did you last carry around speakers spouting recordings with actors like Brian Cox shouting propaganda. I mean that's two examples but every gameplay aspect has that amount of polish to it. People mention heaps of different games where you find these different gameplay features but they're all present in KZ2 and they're brilliantly implemented.

I love the propaganda. I remember guarding one, and agreeing with the speaker. It's like a bard giving you hope. Me and my lonely speaker against a .. oh wait two dudes fell into my trap. ♪♫Tinkle♪♫, ♪♫Tinkle♪♫
 

Kittonwy

Banned
Click said:
I completely understand why people hate auto-aim and excessive lock-on assist in FPSs. In fact, it's one of the few legit gripes I have with R2's Competitive.

However, people should keep in mind, "mainstream" and casual video gamers just aren't very good at FPSs. Even with so much auto-aim/lock-on assist, tons of gamers still get owned by the good players.

I guess the opposing argument is, "well, don't penalize the hardcore players for shitty players' ineptitude." Or "casual players will eventually get better and learn how to play." Developers must find ways to both please the hardcore fans, as well as try and help casuals enjoy the game. Sometimes you alienate the minority, in order to please the majority.

I think you'll like the Killzone 2 MP WAY MOAR than R2 MP competitive, WAY MOAR. The classes, the weapons, the levels, the game mechanics, everything.
Indifferent2.gif
 

Core407

Banned
_tetsuo_ said:
Thats basically whats so great about it. It clusterfucks just about everything thats good about a lot of great shooters, slaps some crazy ass gun handling and silly graphics in there and bam u got a fucking nice game.

Thank you! It basically all around awesomeness. There are no weakness to the MP which creates an experience unseen.
 

mr_nothin

Banned
Halvie said:
like when just walking around the gun just keeps going upward?
NO.
When you look around...when you actually start moving the analogue stick that is on the right side of the dual shock 3 controller (which is for the ps3) in the game known as killzone 2 MP beta phase 2.

Since I have to spell it out for you.
It could have just been like that for me.
But now, I'm "Mr HEADSHOT" baby! I'm #1 in headshots on the whole beta...by a large margin too. I'm also ranked 9th.

You just have to find what controls work for you.
 

Click

Banned
Kittonwy said:
I think you'll like the Killzone 2 MP WAY MOAR than R2 MP competitive, WAY MOAR. The classes, the weapons, the levels, the game mechanics, everything.
Indifferent2.gif

I probably will. But in the meantime, I'm going to enjoy R2 and won't constantly and unfairly bash it on NeoGAF like you, M3, and several others are doing.
 

Clinton514

Member
Wollan said:
Isn't it a question about execution?
No other game replicates weight and controlling a real person as well as KZ2, not remotely. Capture the flag like modes is present in almost all shooters but when did you last carry around speakers spouting recordings with actors like Brian Cox shouting propaganda. I mean that's two examples but every gameplay aspect has that amount of polish to it. People mention heaps of different games where you find these different gameplay features but they're all present in KZ2 and they're brilliantly implemented.
Yup, I like that the multiplayer modes tie into the story/campaign in some way.

Kane & Lynch attempted this but Eidos fell short by just including one simple mode. Well that and a pretty near to broken cover system.

Hopefully more games will borrow from this aspect of KZ2.
 

Haunted

Member
The reaction of Sony fans to the Killzone 2 bit reminds me of the reactions of Nintendo fans to ZP's SSBB review.


just sayin'
 
mr_nothin said:

As strange and seemingly convoluted as this analogy is, it does work. KZ2 as an experience is much different from anything else. I don't think this game set out to reinvent the wheel, just make it better. In the end though, I don't think that second hand impressions will do this game justice because it is very different from any one modern game on the market.

Ellis seems to downplay the game and focus his energies on something that people who have not played the game will be unable to substantiate (controls - something very subjective). Personally, I feel that the controls are amazing in that they fit flawlessly with the world they belong to. Everything has weight, and that weight is not so different from our understanding of weight, so you get used to it quickly and learning is not tedious. This gives things a realistic sense without slowing anything down (you can still respond and get feedback very very fast). You will get used to the controls quickly and, despite Ellis' whining about sniper vs. assault rifle, there will be servers by rank, so you will be up against people on an even playing field until you learn the ropes.

Those few gamers who only want to play the same thing over and over again with the same feel may not get into KZ2, but I don't think the average person who likes FPS games will find the game very immersive and have no trouble getting into the hypnotic rhythm of the game.
 

Ploid 3.0

Member
Haunted said:
The reaction of Sony fans to the Killzone 2 bit reminds me of the reactions of Nintendo fans to ZP's SSBB review.


just sayin'

What did they say about ssbb in the review that was odd?
 

Clinton514

Member
Click said:
I probably will. But in the meantime, I'm going to enjoy R2 and won't constantly and unfairly bash it on NeoGAF like you, M3, and several others are doing.
Word, I'm not a fan of the R2 bashing either. I always told myself based on the first Resistance that I wouldn't mess with the competitive aspect of R2 much but I recently got a chance to put in an hour or so of it and despite my aim-locking gripes, I enjoyed it.
 

Ploid 3.0

Member
Haunted said:
I meant it in terms of how to take criticism.

Thing is, I hope his criticism don't effect the game. Devs tend to take media feedback when they speak like this about their game. Though people say GG won't change a thing, they also have a long time until the game is gold. They might get bored and alter a tad bit for his CoD4 needs.
 
I love the 1up crew, but they bitch too much sometimes. I can't say anything for KZ2 other than I hope that it's a good game, but they were too harsh on MK vs. DC. Overall, the game is good-looking (graphics wise) and fun to play, but just because it isn't VF or SCIV people like to shit all over it.
I know that Shane said that MK vs. DC is a different beast from VF, but he constantly gripes over how it isn't like those games. Also he says "I've never really liked MK games, but I hope they make it Mature the next time around...I mean I don't care really." If you don't care then why do you want them to make it mature the next time? Personally, I'm not arguing over whether the game should be mature or not, I'm just trying to show that sometimes the video game community bitches WAY too much. You see this same kind of shit with the gametrailers review. They mention that the game doesn't have any crappy kart racers or adventure modes, but they wish it had one. WHAT?! You bitch and moan when these games do have these awful add ons and then you bitch and moan when they take it out of the game? Boy, I'm glad I'm not a game designer. It's impossible to make everyone happy. You do one thing, the reviewers say they want it a different way. You fix it, but then the reviewers want the game to stop global warming.
Lastly, I really wish people would stop comparing games. Comparing COD4 and KZ2 seems (I'll emphasize this word since I haven't played the beta) ridiculous. The only similarity between the two is that they are shooters. Of course there will be some people on this form that will point out the less obvious similarities, like classes and whatnot...but those things are pretty standard for most shooters nowadays. Same with MK and VF, SC, and SF. JUST JUDGE THE GAME ON ITS OWN MERITS.

With that said...I still love you Mangod.
 

sykoex

Lost all credibility.
I say from now on we abbreviate Mortal Kombat Vs. DC Universe as MKDC. And yes, I agree they were way too harsh on MKDC.
 

Gantz

Banned
sykoex said:
I say from now on we abreviate Mortal Kombat Vs. DC Universe as MKDC. And yes, I agree they were way too harsh on MKDC.

I dunno from the gameplay video they showed it looked pretty bad. They dumbed down MK for 14 year olds :lol
 

NeoUltima

Member
GAZERK said:
I know that Shane said that MK vs. DC is a different beast from VF, but he constantly gripes over how it isn't like those games. Also he says "I've never really liked MK games, but I hope they make it Mature the next time around...I mean I don't care really." If you don't care then why do you want them to make it mature the next time?

With that said...I still love you Mangod.
I think he said he would want it to be mature because thats what hardcore MK fans have come to expect from the series, and it would make them happy.
 

Halvie

Banned
mr_nothin said:
You're the 1 that started to get smart.
It was just a joke anyways though :p


Wasn't meant to be smart...how many people have actually fired an assault rifle on this board?
 

Yoshichan

And they made him a Lord of Cinder. Not for virtue, but for might. Such is a lord, I suppose. But here I ask. Do we have a sodding chance?
EmCeeGramr said:
I dunno, you could argue that Tribes 1 most of that stuff in 1998, and even allowed you to customize the extent of all of it.
...
 
Seiken said:
Not sure what you're dot-dot-dotting about; it did different movement speeds and recoils based on weapons, classes (both preset and custom), good level design, and many other things that are being cited (like being able to build things like turrets).
 

sykoex

Lost all credibility.
EmCeeGramr said:
Not sure what you're dot-dot-dotting about; it did different movement speeds and recoils based on weapons, classes (both preset and custom), good level design, and many other things that are being cited (like being able to build things like turrets).
Tribes really is one of the greatest MP games ever. It'd be awesome to see a new one that lived up to the legacy.
 

Kaako

Felium Defensor
sykoex said:
Tribes really is one of the greatest MP games ever. It'd be awesome to see a new one that lived up to the legacy.
AMEN to that! I remember playing the living shit out of the first one with my cousins. I'd say that the muliplayer/team class based gameplay in Tribes 1 is still better than 95% of some current gen fps games. Just seriously thinking about it now, they really had their shit together and everything played beautifully. I miss StarsiegeTribes. :/
MasterCharged said:
wtf?? i just wtch the 1up show and i was like wtf is this fat ass saying lol. the controls are fucking great and i love realistic shooter.

i hate halo/cod4/resistance2/ut3/ any other shooter where when i flank a guy he gets too turn around instantly and damage me. thats bullshit. the game has realistic animtion and movement and recoils. its not like you are going at ut speed and reloading at cod speed. everything flows nicely and people should listen to some noob's opinion who doesnt know how to adapt and play a different kind of shooter.

IM GLAD THIS GAME IS NOT LIKE COD4 cause those COD players have somehow manage to ruin every single online shooter in the past months. they dont take cover, they spam grenades, and they dont really care about the team. ll they want is to increase their kill count so the end product CHAOS.
lol. the controls are fucking great and i love realistic shooter.

i hate halo/cod4/resistance2/ut3/ any other shooter where when i flank a guy he gets too turn around instantly and damage me. thats bullshit. the game has realistic animtion and movement and recoils. its not like you are going at ut speed and reloading at cod speed. everything flows nicely and people should listen to some noob's opinion who doesnt know how to adapt and play a different kind of shooter.

IM GLAD THIS GAME IS NOT LIKE COD4 cause those COD players have somehow manage to ruin every single online shooter in the past months. they dont take cover, they spam grenades, and they dont really care about the team. ll they want is to increase their kill count so the end product CHAOS.
You just lost major credibility in my book by retorting to personal attack. I agree with most of your points, but personal attacks like that is fucking weak man. Just saying.
 
wtf?? i just wtch the 1up show and i was like wtf is this fat ass saying lol. the controls are fucking great and i love realistic shooter.

i hate halo/cod4/resistance2/ut3/ any other shooter where when i flank a guy he gets too turn around instantly and damage me. thats bullshit. the game has realistic animtion and movement and recoils. its not like you are going at ut speed and reloading at cod speed. everything flows nicely and people should listen to some noob's opinion who doesnt know how to adapt and play a different kind of shooter.

IM GLAD THIS GAME IS NOT LIKE COD4 cause those COD players have somehow manage to ruin every single online shooter in the past months. they dont take cover, they spam grenades, and they dont really care about the team. ll they want is to increase their kill count so the end product CHAOS.
 

JB1981

Member
Click said:
I probably will. But in the meantime, I'm going to enjoy R2 and won't constantly and unfairly bash it on NeoGAF like you, M3, and several others are doing.
But it deserves bashing.
 

Puck

Banned
belvedere said:
They pick Ellis to cover KZ2? No one on the planet could create more speculative fiction about the game than this guy and they pick him as one of the two covering it for this episode.
Agreeeed.
He will give it either B+ or B- and say it doesn't live up to expectations and gears, as it is too generic.
 

Crayon

Member
Halvie said:
The guys playing during the time they showed the game were horrible...didn't help sell the game any.


I agree that they showed some tepid examples of gameplay but I accounted for that. Looks bad. I'll give it a shot if I have a chance to play it for free.
 

Oldschoolgamer

The physical form of blasphemy
Gantz said:
I dunno from the gameplay video they showed it looked pretty bad. They dumbed down MK for 14 year olds :lol

The only thing they dumbed down was the graphic content. Everything else was a much needed upgrade. There is a bit of depth in the game, so if you get beat by someone mashing buttons you are a scrub/noob/whatever. The characters seemed to be balanced pretty well (to early to call it) and the combo system feels quite nice, especially with the addition of the pro-moves/just frames. Whether or not it should be taken super serious is one thing, and even then it's to early to call it. You can take it serious enough though and it is much fun.

The people playing in the segment were terrible.

Again, :lol @ button mashers being victorious.
 

dfyb

Banned
tribes 2 is one of my favorite games of all time, but i think KZ2 has a fresh take on classes, and i think the immersive qualities are noteworthy (the argument that tribes had already somehow mastered the feeling of weight to characters/weapons is LOLworthy -- tribes is gamey fun). and while i haven't read about a KZ2 mode that is super innovative or new, i can't say i've played a MP game that makes a point of changes modes on the fly.

i think some of you are really stretching it when you try to discredit KZ2 (of course, this goes the other way as well).
 

zeloe326

Member
I'm proabably late to the discussion regarding David Ellis's Killzone 2 impressions, but I just finished watching the 1UP show and felt the need to leave my input. I absolutey disagree with everything, and I mean everything this guy said about the controls in Killzone 2. Watching this guy (David Ellis) giving his impressions on the controls, made me want to slap myself in the face.

The controls in Killzone 2 is far from being bad. I immediately learned the controls after no more than 3 minutes of playing. Sensistivity is the only thing that might need tweeking. Fortunately the developer made this option available. I don't understand how much more simpler, you would want the controls. For the COD4 fanatics, there is even an "Alternate 2" control scheme available, which resembles the controls in COD4. The only difference is the iron sight is toggled based.

His comments about the game feeling too realistic, is actually a super positive thing, but he said it in such a negative way. I totally disagree with him that it makes the game less fun. I actually thought that very statement was the most retarded thing he said about the controls, second being the fact that you can't do a quick 180. The levels are design in such, that if you suspect someone was on your tail you can run for cover, or to find a way back around and maybe getting the 1up on the guy. I also love the fact that the guns feel real, they have weight, and moving around with the different weapons feel so visceral its scary.

In addition, he complains about not being able to get a great shot against a sniper when using your default weapon, which was so ridiculous it made me cringe. First of all, a sniper is a much more precise and accurate weapon, and it would explain why a sniper would have an advantage on someone who possessed a less effecient weapon. With that said, I have taken out snipers many times with my default weapon, and never did I feel like the snipers where to overpowered. That tells me that this guy is not good at the game. And him saying on 1up yours that he wish the rectical was a little bit more "sticky," like in COD4 just confirms my observations. He speaks as if because he is bad at the game the game is actually doing something wrong. Well, I say "NO my friend mr Ellis, " you are actually doing something wrong, not the game.

Then the most destructive line was that he hasn't seen if this game is going to be worth it yet, because he hasn't gotten a grasp of the controls. So basically, he is telling me the "viewer/consumer/gamer" whatever you want to call it, that because "I David Ellis cannot get the controls in KZ2, the game isn't worth playing." What a scumbag.
 

Kaako

Felium Defensor
dfyb said:
tribes 2 is one of my favorite games of all time, but i think KZ2 has a fresh take on classes, and i think the immersive qualities are noteworthy (the argument that tribes had already somehow mastered the feeling of weight to characters/weapons is LOLworthy -- tribes is gamey fun). and while i haven't read about a KZ2 mode that is super innovative or new, i can't say i've played a MP game that makes a point of changes modes on the fly.

i think some of you are really stretching it when you try to discredit KZ2 (of course, this goes the other way as well).
I personally preferred Tribes 1 over 2 and as for KZ2, judging by the beta alone, it feels and plays better than any fps game I've played this gen. I personally prefer that style of gameplay with weight being a key aspect to the game. Also the game just flows for me and flanking works like a charm, so far. I can totally see myself sinking tons of hours into clan matches and such when the game hits store shelves early next year. The only fps that was like that for me this year was Team Fortress 2 on PC.
 
dfyb said:
tribes 2 is one of my favorite games of all time, but i think KZ2 has a fresh take on classes, and i think the immersive qualities are noteworthy (the argument that tribes had already somehow mastered the feeling of weight to characters/weapons is LOLworthy -- tribes is gamey fun). and while i haven't read about a KZ2 mode that is super innovative or new, i can't say i've played a MP game that makes a point of changes modes on the fly.

i think some of you are really stretching it when you try to discredit KZ2 (of course, this goes the other way as well).
Oh, I'm not saying it mastered the feeling of weight. That's a feeling I've long felt as being poorly neglected in games and needs to be utilized as a mechanic. If KZ2 really does it that well, I'd love to be able to try it for myself, though unfortunately I don't own a PS3.
 

bbyybb

CGI bullshit is the death knell of cinema
I have been playing the beta for quite some time now and i dont get the hate on the controls? i mean there are other control configurations other than standard.

I just used the default and got used to it.

*Shrugs*
 
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