Archer [Mafia] |OT| Wait, I Had Something For This

Oh yeah, forgot about the volunteering process. Ignore my last couple of posts everyone.

On another note, are all of the current volunteers willing to de-volunteer if that's what the majority wants?
Mazre
Palmer_v1
Arkos
GreatLord Tiger
Because if they aren't, there's not much point discussing how to decide who goes on missions.
Whatever method we decide on, it would always only be used for day 2 and onward. There isn't enough time to get suggestion>decide on a system and use it on the same day. That would be way to hard.
 

Haly

One day I realized that sadness is just another word for not enough coffee.
I don't agree roy, but I'd like to get it cleared today anyway because I don't want to go through with this next Day, or day.
 
I just realized that we could also try sending all the people who we think are KGB out on a mission and if no one dies we'll know who they are. It'll be like that game mindsweeper.
I thought about that and it might be valid in the late game but it's much more difficult to pull off and I think it's likely we have more mafia than we can send on a mission. We'd need to thin their numbers by a few to have a real chance at getting all mafia on a mission.

The other problem with the idea is even if we send the wrong group in this scenario mafia can generate a false positive by simply choosing not to kill anyone (this can be alleviated by not immediately lynching but rather allowing the game to drag out for a few no-kill day phases, generating information and reads and potentially forcing mafia to make a move)
 
For the record, i do not intend to comply with any voting for missions nonsense because it can be more easily abused by the mafia than the drones.

Reasoned and sensible arguments are why we should want specific people to go on a mission. If someone has a valid reason for me not to go, i will listen. If they want me off the mission because of some ridiculous popularity "vote", than you're a fool who is playing into the Mafia's hands.

My currentnreasons for volunteering are far better than most of the stuff ive heard tossed out today.
 
Hi gang! Good morning :D

So, I haven't backtracked but I remember my promise last night about putting my meager voting powers to good use, so here it is!

Vote: Mazre

Reason:
  1. He's the first one to volunteer, right off the gate! Even quicker than Palmer! Who had set an alarm for it! (post #259)
  2. He's the first one to suggest there's four KGB agents, even when squidy began the hot list with five. (post #305)




And now to read read read! YUM~ I love waking up to posts~
 
I don't agree roy, but I'd like to get it cleared today anyway because I don't want to go through with this next Day, or day.
Wait, you don't agree with what? You do think it was possible to implement a system day 1? Because that would be almost impossible to do correctly.
 
Just a couple of things I'm throwing out there. Is there any value in making sure new people go on the mission every night? I know we're trying this strategy of protecting experienced players this way but how long can we go on like that? And what if we actually end up protecting a mafia role the entire game, while ensuring they get as much information from the mission as possible.

My concern is that we're going to make it harder for ourselves as town. What if we just ignore it the entire game, play regular mafia until we actually need to protect someone.
 

Haly

One day I realized that sadness is just another word for not enough coffee.
Wait, you don't agree with what? You do think it was possible to implement a system day 1? Because that would be almost impossible to do correctly.
I think it would be possible yes.

If it was the system I proposed, it's already there, we just need to agree, then move down the list.

If it was the system squidy proposed, then we need to get everyone to list their reads today and tomorrow, then tally the lists on the final day with a caveat that we can't change our lists on the final day.

If it was the idea of voting in it's unformed state, well, probably not, But we have real concrete options now so I think it's possible to implement them if we work together, and if we agree they should be implemented.

But Palmer raises a good point in that we can't really overrule Ourobolus. Unless everyone on the current volunteer list plays along, any discussion of how it should go is moot.

And that's fine too. Because the sooner we establish that we can't change the volunteering whatsoever, the sooner we can move past this as a topic of discussion.
 
Hi gang! Good morning :D

So, I haven't backtracked but I remember my promise last night about putting my meager voting powers to good use, so here it is!

Vote: Mazre

Reason:
  1. He's the first one to volunteer, right off the gate! Even quicker than Palmer! Who had set an alarm for it! (post #259)
  2. He's the first one to suggest there's four KGB agents, even when squidy began the hot list with five. (post #305)




And now to read read read! YUM~ I love waking up to posts~
Excellent points! So this means that it could be him...or it could be you.
 
I'm much less likely to suspect squidy because he was just having a bit of fun with it. It's the correction and back pedaling that makes Mazre ever so slightly more interesting to me.
 
Excellent points! So this means that it could be him...or it could be you.
..... said someone who hasn't contributed very much at all! Gosh it's like pulling a tooth for words with some of you~ (...not like I dislike pulling teeth out.... perks of the job and all that)




COME NOW. Tell us who you like and who you do not like as KGBs! I wants to hear more from the .....quiet ones.
 
I think you're way off base about roy. It feels like he's trying to figure out the game to me and giving pretty good information, a voting solution isn't good but it's a method of control when we need some method of control over the missions and we need to get that out of the way before our next day phase. The last thing we want is to be 6 days into the game and still not be using missions effectively, that'd be disastrous for town.

Vote: Cabbeh[\highlight]

Cabbeh has suggested that if there is a kill on a mission it might be a mistake to lynch the remaining mission members, furthermore he's been suspicious of everyone who volunteered immediately.

I agree with the assessment that mafia would likely not try to send more than one player and It should be clear that from the information we have one of the best ways to save yourself is to be on the mission, if mafia doesn't have a way to overcome the stated restrictions they're not going to want to kill in the mission group, it gives town too much information. Therefore I think Cabbeh's assertion that we should be hunting amongst the early volunteers, given that there are 5 or 6 of them is bad logic, and I think he's trying to promote a mislynch.


There is of course the conspiracy theory that Haly is the mafia candidate and they want to get someone out who's ahead of him on the list so they can get their man in Peruvistan or whatever the fuck the capitol of Peru is.
Ok I'm back from shopping. Couldn't find any archer clothing sadly :(.
you're right I was thinking of GreatLord Tiger. I don't really want to talk about Enker right now though.
Squidyj just for clarification purposes what were you thinking of me about.
 
And that's fine too. Because the sooner we establish that we can't change the volunteering whatsoever, the sooner we can move past this as a topic of discussion.
Yeah. Maybe we just accept that first come first serve is how it's going to work. (I mean that is how it's always going to go no matter what unofficial rules we try to enforce) If we really wanna get someone on/off the mission, as Palmer said, we can discuss it as a group to make it happen

At the end of the day we just need to put this line of discussion behind us, as this is kind of a thing we all need to be somewhat okay on it would be REALLY good to hear from everyone.
 
Hi gang! Good morning :D

So, I haven't backtracked but I remember my promise last night about putting my meager voting powers to good use, so here it is!

Vote: Mazre

Reason:
  1. He's the first one to volunteer, right off the gate! Even quicker than Palmer! Who had set an alarm for it! (post #259)
  2. He's the first one to suggest there's four KGB agents, even when squidy began the hot list with five. (post #305)




And now to read read read! YUM~ I love waking up to posts~
Fair enough for day 1. I'm an enthusiastic mafia player, in my short career (this being game 2) I've decided I want to be an active participant. That post was written on Saturday and yes I was ready to go and happened to refresh just as Ouro put up his post. squidyj simply asked for hot reads (no number specified) and I obliged mostly to humor him and see who else would participate. As stated, my reads were based on nothing, just 3 more numbers from random.org.

I'm much less likely to suspect squidy because he was just having a bit of fun with it. It's the correction and back pedaling that makes Mazre ever so slightly more interesting to me.
Huh? Could you clarify this please?
 
Yeah. Maybe we just accept that first come first serve is how it's going to work. (I mean that is how it's always going to go no matter what unofficial rules we try to enforce) If we really wanna get someone on/off the mission, as Palmer said, we can discuss it as a group to make it happen

At the end of the day we just need to put this line of discussion behind us, as this is kind of a thing we all need to be somewhat okay on it would be REALLY good to hear from everyone.
I agree. We should definitely discuss who goes on missions, and try to coordinate once we have more info, but for now, literally any name is as good as another, and I am definitely not submitting to any arbitrary voting systems.

I'm actually back at my PC finally, so sorry for all the typos previously.
 
I'd like this to be the "gentleman's agreement":

1) We move down the list of volunteers with every day
2) Cannot volunteer while you're on the list (no queueing up multiple days)
3) Same queue rules as was established. If you unvolunteer and revolunteer, you go back to the end of the list

This way people who really want to get on that mission can do so just by being patient. KGB will have a hard time exploiting it for their own ends, nor can they do so without raising suspicion. This will not need to be managed anymore than Ouro is already managing the volunteer list, there's no subjectiveness here, it's plain for all to see.

I'd like for us to settle this issue ASAP. Preferably by the end of today (August 3rd 2015), once everyone has had a chance to check in.
I think this may be the best suggestion I've seen, simple to implement and allows those in less favorable timezones to partake. I'd be all for random (Praise be unto RNGesus), but that would just lead to implementation complications (under the assumption that Ouro would not be aiding us in any way).
 


Vote: TheGoddamn

Inactivity has been common for Mafia in the two games I've played, and even an inactive drone can be more harmful to us than helpful.

For lack of anything else concrete, kill those with the least activity.
 
I'm still catching up on my reading but...

Alright, as long as that's clear then:



I'd like this to be the "gentleman's agreement":

1) We move down the list of volunteers with every day
2) Cannot volunteer while you're on the list (no queueing up multiple days)
3) Same queue rules as was established. If you unvolunteer and revolunteer, you go back to the end of the list

This way people who really want to get on that mission can do so just by being patient. KGB will have a hard time exploiting it for their own ends, nor can they do so without raising suspicion. This will not need to be managed anymore than Ouro is already managing the volunteer list, there's no subjectiveness here, it's plain for all to see.

I'd like for us to settle this issue ASAP. Preferably by the end of today (August 3rd 2015), once everyone has had a chance to check in.
I feel like you deserve a response because you are putting effort into this. I agree that we're wasting time even talking about it, but it's also Day 1. 99% of what has been said today of what is said today will be a waste of time as well. As for the actual idea, it's better thought out than a voting system, but I still wouldn't cooperate with it. We don't need artificial systems inhibiting our ability to use reason to persuade people about who should be on the mission. If we can present good arguments for someone's inclusion, and people don't make space, it provides us a lot more info.
 

Haly

One day I realized that sadness is just another word for not enough coffee.
It's not just the post count but the content although post count is the easiest go through by far.

I'd like to see more concrete stuff from those at the bottom.
 
Shoot. Better up my post count, quick, then.
Nothing but filler posts will also come across suspiciously. It's nothing personal, but we Mafia would have lost both games I was in much quicker if we had been lynching inactive posters.

Quality over Quantity my friend. Just posting a load of filler will gain more suspicion than people who are rarely posting.
It's not just the post count but the content although post count is the easiest go through by far.

I'd like to see more concrete stuff from those at the bottom.
These are true. If you're coming through with good posts, you'll stand out regardless of your post count.
 

Haly

One day I realized that sadness is just another word for not enough coffee.
I feel like you deserve a response because you are putting effort into this. I agree that we're wasting time even talking about it, but it's also Day 1. 99% of what has been said today of what is said today will be a waste of time as well. As for the actual idea, it's better thought out than a voting system, but I still wouldn't cooperate with it. We don't need artificial systems inhibiting our ability to use reason to persuade people about who should be on the mission. If we can present good arguments for someone's inclusion, and people don't make space, it provides us a lot more info.
As long as your stance remains stable on this front, I don't think we need to discuss this anymore. There's no way to implement a voting/queue unless everyone agrees to follow it. If we try to go ahead with some scheme while others refuse to play ball, then this will just lead to conflict and I'd rather not schism the entire thread on day one.

So let's go with this:

First come first serve, but if you want to appeal to volunteer or appeal to take someone off everyone should feel like they're free to do so. I feel like we should've suggested this earlier on instead of taking the volunteering as immutable canon, but you know, tunnel vision. This way, anyone who wants to mess with the mission will single themselves out in the process. Hopefully, this will assuage people's fears of exploitation by the KGB. It is better than arbitrary voting, at least, where KGB can hide among us in the same they can hide among wagons.

(This doesn't mean nobody needs to give reads, just so you know.)
 
Freudian slip!?

Or do I play the odds that it's unlikely you'll land Mafia three times in a row? Hmm. HMMM.
Sort of. I was technically on Mafia side last game without BEING Mafia, and wewon, when we probably should have lost. Raindoc was one of the least active players in that game and should have been policy lynched under normal circumstances.

In the first game, we probably would have won a few days sooner if we had committed to lynching the fairly inactive RNH.
 
Another thing I meant to say, and part of why I wanted to be on this mission so badly, is that I'm a dangerous magnet and trap for power roles. I'm just a drone, but that won't stop people from targeting me, and risk giving info away if there are any mafia Watchers or Trackers this game. I think every time I've been targeted, it's gone awry, either because I was deliberately not using a power(Setre when I wasn't Protecting Raindoc), because I had a power that was a false positive(Sleepwalker), or because other people were also investigating/protecting me(LoC/Ultron in Game 1, Johnny and Hutts in SW Game 2). I really wanted to remove the temptation to waste/risk more actions on me.

If someone is on the mission and can investigate me, it's far less risky tonight than it will be any time I'm not on a mission.
 

Haly

One day I realized that sadness is just another word for not enough coffee.
It's just "Voting" now, Seath. I think it was standardized across games just to avoid this kind of confusion in the future.
 
The Goddamn Batman is in the philippines. his schedule is offset and I feel he's had less posting time than other players at the time of palmer's vote, I think even if you're looking for quiet ones there are better targets than The Goddamn Batman.

I'm actually super serial about my vote on Razmos, this isn't just to provoke discussion or anything the way my cabbeh vote mostly was, he gives me an incredibly strong mafia vibe in that he doesn't post that much, and his posts consist mostly of fluff or commenting on or agreeing with past information. He hasn't offered anything of substance to discussion this game and it gives the definite impression that he is hiding and doesn't want to be noticed.

Razmos needs to die.