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Archer [Mafia] |OT| Wait, I Had Something For This

Wait a minute, am I on the hot list, because I am HOOOOOT FIRE, or because I'm suspicious!!?

Has to be the former, surely.

I am definitely more suspicious of the insta-volunteers now, since Ouro has revealed that the KGB have had a chat going for a couple of days now, I suspect they've agreed to have at least one be put on a mission as soon as possible.

I'm suspicious of Palmer purely because he's been a great player the last two games, and I'll always be suspicious of good players (admittedly he's not been Mafia yet, though he did court the line of truth and deception in Star Wars)

Just to be clear, I'm not judging on role choice or whatever, chances of being a mafia third time round, just purely on the fact that he is skilled in this and that's always something to be aware of in these type of games.

The fact that those people volunteered instantly without any discussion, followed by quite a detailed back and forth on how we choose volunteers, it could be described as anti-town a bit in this context. I'll put that in this post, but I understand the motive of seeing the mission as a 'safe place' and wanting to get on the train early (though where the odds of you dying in the first round are reasonably low, it seems a bit of a mistake)

I'm glad Squidy's here, he and Eze brought AC to life when they came in.

Now that I've complimented him, I can only assume I'll be on his hit list, and anticipate intense apologising/questioning!

Well!

Naturally, I picked you because you are shiny and new! :D

I am also glad for Palmer and squidy and Ezekiel to be with our game, they seem really good and fun to play with :) OUR GAME IS THE SUPERIOR GAME, CLEARLY.

But they also intimidate me a bit with their experience in the field... could,... could it be that they are ODIN level ;____;



Oh, as for our (the royal we) further contributions! A while ago squidy asked about what would be best town player profile and how would each of us approach this game. I now have backtracked and read every post :) some of y'all really make interesting contributions ! (e.g. i like how roytheone seems genuinely concerned about how the night missions' .... and i think he has a point about democratic volunteering, but i think voting focus should remain with the day lynch. logistically speaking)

(anyway, it leads me to start forming some opinions about who may be town in my book.... which are: roytheone, squidy. the rest of you are still blurry to me)

(i may need night vision goggles. i pack poorly :( )

.... where was I

Oh yes, most ideal pro-town profile! For me, it is someone who: 1) generates discussions without derailing / too much fluffiness, and 2) knows how to read fellow players, and most importantly 3) presents deductive reasoning that leads to theories.

.... and if he's also a sexual magnet. Which is a must if one desires to be a top secret international mystery agent of intrigue!

And! As for my approach! I personally would hope to learn from my last game and I want to try to generate heat / pressure more with my voting powers. I was super afraid during my SW game to switch votes. I have learned that my timidity was to the detriment of my play style :( I will try to do better this time, as a townie!

OK :D Hope that gives y'all some additional read on me. I'm still in favour of day 1 lynch, but I can see that we've mostly been concerned about the night missions and volunteering mechanics. Only two votes have been cast so far, but I guess Day 1 is still underway so I'm hoping to see... 1) more discussions and 2) the stragglers who are yet to post..... to post!





Oh, and cabbeh, are you in my time zone??? You start to post pretty late in the day! (I'm on Australian time)
 

Ourobolus

Banned
Ourobolus, I'll be using mobileGAF to keep up with this thread, especially given my time zone. Is there any image use that I should know about or is all the pertinent information in text form?

I'll occasionally post images for flavor, but everything necessary should be in the text.

Maybe I misread that part, but I got the idea that the night-chatters coukd read only the chat of the night they participated in, not the other nights? If you can read the other nights too, that would make the night-chat pretty useless after awhile, since at the end of game I'd presume almost everyone would have access to read it.

Ouroboros, which one is it? Can night-chat people of night 1 also read the chat of night 2, 3 etc, or can they only read night 1? I think this is pretty important to know.
You can only read the chats for the missions you went on. Since volunteers reset every day, you would need to re volunteer in order to get access to the next one.

You maintain read-only access to the ones you have participated in after the night is over.
 

cabot

Member
.... that's somewhat close to russia, right????

lol_vladimir_putin.gif
 

El Topo

Member
All this talk is going to lead us nowhere if there are no stakes, else it's all fluff.

Absolutely no one has any clues. I mean, maybe they were in the dossier, but who reads those?

Looking back at previous Mafia games, there are certain indications and patterns that may allow us to uncover the enemy.

In addition I have noticed that putting pressure on players is helpful, as is rapidly changing the situation of the game, all of which requires active participation of players. Allow me to demonstrate by abandoning reason and following my gut.

VOTE:roytheone
 

cabot

Member
Also from one of his posts I can see that cabbeh is one of the 'boys from the dwarf' so he gets an ok in my book.

I didn't come here lookin' for trouble.
I just came to do the Red Dwarf Shuffle
he's smart

..

he's smart


I've got a good feeling on YNONOY currently. It's a little thing in a post I saw which makes me think she's Town, but it could be random Archer quoting, I haven't watched the show in a while so the quotes are going over my little head.

I'll be keeping my eyes peeled on those initial volunteers. Nothing else to go on, and I agree with you that there will be one among them that's Mafia. Nothing else anyone has said yet has particularly swayed me. Squidy seems to be acting as he did in the previous game, so that's good so far.
 

Haly

One day I realized that sadness is just another word for not enough coffee.
Since Ouro/Ezekel isn't here I'll do the honors:

squidyj (1)
Mazre

haly (1)
Seath

EzekelRAGE (1)
cabbeh

Roytheone (1)
El Topo

As much as I support a Day 1 lynch, I really need to see more from people to make any kind of guess at all. It's not like Animal Crossing D1 where there was a clear choice I was cockblocked on and I don't want to vote for Seath again.
 
All this talk is going to lead us nowhere if there are no stakes, else it's all fluff.



Looking back at previous Mafia games, there are certain indications and patterns that may allow us to uncover the enemy.

In addition I have noticed that putting pressure on players is helpful, as is rapidly changing the situation of the game, all of which requires active participation of players. Allow me to demonstrate by abandoning reason and following my gut.

VOTE:roytheone


Mmm. I agree. What was I thinking not casting a vote after my biggu post :x

But, tbh I can't quite lean on any name yet, but its 1 AM here now so I will be sure to vote for someone when I'm wide awake in the morning. Hopefully all the stragglers have checked in as well by then.
 

Haly

One day I realized that sadness is just another word for not enough coffee.
For some reason I thought the game started today, sorry for not posting yesterday.

The date was moved up, that's why.

Malory likes to keep her drones on their toes apparently.
 

Zubz

Banned
Looking back at previous Mafia games, there are certain indications and patterns that may allow us to uncover the enemy.

In addition I have noticed that putting pressure on players is helpful, as is rapidly changing the situation of the game, all of which requires active participation of players. Allow me to demonstrate by abandoning reason and following my gut.

VOTE:roytheone

I always distrust people who have this mentality. It never works out for me, as last game showed (Sorry, Castamere!) but it just seems bloodthirsty.

This volunteering lark is obviously going to be some erotic team building exercise. I bet you don't even get paid more. Pfft.

Well, it is called "volunteering," so they might not even get paid at all. Something had to give to pay for that table.

For some reason I thought the game started today, sorry for not posting yesterday.

Hey! It's good to have you back!
 
Good morning! I finished catching up on the thread and here are my suspicious list:
Mazre
Palmer
Arkos
GreatLord

Just like some of you I believe one of them is a KGB agent. From the clarification that Ouro gave on the missions, it seems that the night chat is going to be readable by any of the ones who participated in it. Given the information that can be in there, the KGB team probably planned out days before that they were going to plant a mole in there. As information in this game is key, experienced player such as Mazre and Palmer are more likely to be my guess as KGB since they know how to find good leads thanks to their russian special training.

putinonbear.jpg
 
See I know I'm being accused, but I'm glad a lot of people are having the same line of thinking as me.

Also I'll be on mobile gaf for a good chunk of the day, so might not be able to post as much today.
 
So, just finished reading through the thread and here are some of my thoughts...

Not really sure I'll be volunteering to go on a mission anytime soon, there's no special benefits outside of the chat and the supposed safety.

Squidyj seems to be the most likely rebel (I mean drone) at this point. Got discussion on the topic of who mafia is almost immediately and is challenging posters who aren't contributing anything. Hopefully Krieger is able to protect him during the night.

As for who I think is KGB...
Arkos
Haly
-Randomly picked two out of the people who volunteered in the first hour of the game.
Mike_Hawk689
Septimus Prime
-Both were extremely quick to reply after being called out for not posting yet.
Don't know if I can be sure that there's more than four KGB agent's since all the other games so far have only had four. I also can't really think of any other people, so I'll leave it there.

Also, after the mislynching on day 1 in the star wars game, I'm going to have a hard time being convinced to vote on anyone today.

I'll also be more active during the evenings since I'm at work during the days.

Hey! It's good to have you back!

You too! I have a good feeling about this game.
 
Sorry guys, thought the game started today. Was lurking on another forum about the Drake/meek stuff lol. Anyway, this has my full attention now. Wish I wouldve got in on the mission, but I'll be sure to get in on the other ones. I looked over the thread and saw I think Squidy's post about picking who you should vote for or something like that.

Atm, I would go with:
Roytheone - Think was one of the first ones to point fingers at people who volunteered saying at least one of them could be KGB. Possible, but could be a case where KGB wanted none of their members to volunteer in case of a situation like that.
cooljeanius - Seems to be posting, but not really saying much, like filler? IDK.

That's all I have atm, obviously nothing damning, just thoughts on things so far.
 

Hobohodo

Member
So I've been thinking about something Mazes said earlier about how we don't want discussing volunteers to overshadow lynching players. My main concern right now is that we will go in to Day 2 still debating over if we use a system to vote volunteers, then spend a lot of time deciding those volunteers and before you know it we have very little time to actually lynch someone. With that said however, today is the day we have the least amount of infomation to work with in regards to who we lynch. Now I'm on the fence about lynching vs no lynching on Day 1 as Star Wars and AC both showed the pros and cons to each strategy last time.

What I do feel will be useful for us to decide today is to try and hash out what we wanna do with volunteers. Do we just have a free for all or do we have a vote of sorts. If we do have a vote how do we do it? How do we ensure we don't waste time focussing on volunteers if we vote? These are all things I feel we should think about during this day phase. For one we don't need to discuss who should volunteer today as they all ready got in but also it actually gives us something to discuss without resorting to random lyncings. Gives us a chance to get a read on each other.
 
So I've been thinking about something Mazes said earlier about how we don't want discussing volunteers to overshadow lynching players. My main concern right now is that we will go in to Day 2 still debating over if we use a system to vote volunteers, then spend a lot of time deciding those volunteers and before you know it we have very little time to actually lynch someone. With that said however, today is the day we have the least amount of infomation to work with in regards to who we lynch. Now I'm on the fence about lynching vs no lynching on Day 1 as Star Wars and AC both showed the pros and cons to each strategy last time.

What I do feel will be useful for us to decide today is to try and hash out what we wanna do with volunteers. Do we just have a free for all or do we have a vote of sorts. If we do have a vote how do we do it? How do we ensure we don't waste time focussing on volunteers if we vote? These are all things I feel we should think about during this day phase. For one we don't need to discuss who should volunteer today as they all ready got in but also it actually gives us something to discuss without resorting to random lyncings. Gives us a chance to get a read on each other.

How about free for all, but you can't go on two missions in a row?

Voting for anything besides lynching during the day period doesn't go well, see the gun vote I had in the Star Wars game.
 

Razmos

Member
I don't really have much to say at this point other that I agree that a "First come, first serve" system for volunteering is a bad idea due to all the different timezones.
 

Arkos

Nose how to spell and rede to
How about free for all, but you can't go on two missions in a row?

Not a bad idea although I think voting on/for volunteers would be ideal. But this could be a compromise at least.

As for who I'm suspicious of, first of all its not me, so I'm looking at the other people who volunteered early. But then again, if the mafia were thinking ahead they might have realized that volunteering immediately would be an easy way to attract unwanted attention. But, it's the only real lead there is so ill keep my eye on those people.

As far as people thinking me, if I would have thought about that maybe I would have held off on volunteering. I was thinking about playing a random card and deception, but I kind of forgot that, as a regular drone, I don't have anything to hide/ can't hide anything from anybody that I would care to hide it from. So, again, my volunteering is the result of not thinking and not understanding. And that would be a pretty elaborate explanation for a mafioso (I kind of wish I had the chance to be that deceptive, but alas).

And my gut? Squidyj is asking a lot of questions. Too many questions for my taste. Sowing mistrust (although I know "trust no one") and discontent. And I've played fantasy football with Mazre so I definitely don't trust him. But then Mazre voted squidyj so... if squidyj is mafia then Mazre is smart, if Mazre is mafia then he's diabolical, and if they're both mafia then that's quite clever. Those are both just random gut calls though.

I'll hold off on voting for now? I still need to be convinced whether to lynch on day 1 or not I guess. Mislynching would be a bummer and put us in a hole.

With that business out of the way, would anybody like to join me and the choking machine in the lab?
 
As far as volunteering thing goes, honestly, I'd be cool with first come first serve. Honestly I would go each and every time. Even if we voted, how would we decide who is more important to send on a mission, especially this early in the game.
 

Haly

One day I realized that sadness is just another word for not enough coffee.
Mazre was on the dot last game in Day 1. I was going to bandwagon whoever he voted, except squidyj is very valuable as town. Even if he's a KGB covering for himself, discussion is still ultimately pro-town so I decided not to vote for him.

VOTE: roytheone

Reasoning:

1) We're on the brink of voting on whether we should vote for volunteer privileges. If this is not noise, I don't know what is. If you're ISIS, Roy, I know you had our best interests at heart, but so far, this is the most anti-town move I've seen. It's like crowdsourcing fluff generation.

2) We have a three way tie, down from a four way tie. We're not getting anywhere. On the other hand, Danganronpafia has had 4-5 pages of nonstop discussion and voting. We need a majority to move things along.

Unrelated:

Razmos has a point. Some of our players are distinctly disadvantaged from participating in the Volunteer mechanic due to time zones. Unless Ouro switches the day opening time to give others a chance to be the first on the spyplane (i'm against this, it's like moderator favoring), players like YesNo will pretty much never make it on the plane.

Mafia may be not always be fair to players, but it's still a game, and it's a poor thing for a game to exclude people who happen to live in the "wrong" time or place.
 
Ouro could do a thing where he accepts volunteers at some random point in the first real day of the game day phase, not just automatically as a new day begins I guess.
 

Hobohodo

Member
What if we just have some sort of gentlemen's agreement that no one volunteers for the first 24 hours of a day phase? It gives everyone time to say there piece on if they would like to go on their mission andlets us deal with time zones. It's less of a vote that way and instead a way for us to just slow down slightly in regards to players volunteering.
 

Haly

One day I realized that sadness is just another word for not enough coffee.
I immediately regret my decision.
facepalm.gif


Can we set this discussion aside until Ouro comes in to give his opinion? This is precisely what I didn't want to happen. It's easier to establish a "system" with Ouro present, because he gets final decision on rules anyway.

Let's vote and point fingers instead.
 

Razmos

Member
What if we just have some sort of gentlemen's agreement that no one volunteers for the first 24 hours of a day phase? It gives everyone time to say there piece on if they would like to go on their mission andlets us deal with time zones. It's less of a vote that way and instead a way for us to just slow down slightly in regards to players volunteering.
That still leaves the same problem though, just delays it by a day. There's no real difference between someone volunteering straight after the day starts of volunteering as soon as the window of opportunity opens.
 
What if we just have some sort of gentlemen's agreement that no one volunteers for the first 24 hours of a day phase? It gives everyone time to say there piece on if they would like to go on their mission andlets us deal with time zones. It's less of a vote that way and instead a way for us to just slow down slightly in regards to players volunteering.

But then we lose a day of discussion everytime to decide who gets to volunteer. Plus having to give a reason to go on a mission helps the KGB narrow down who is important. I think everyone is exaggerating the importance of going on a mission, especially this early in the game.

How about we have an agreement to start the new list where the old one ended?
 

squidyj

Member
I'm glad Squidy's here, he and Eze brought AC to life when they came in.

Now that I've complimented him, I can only assume I'll be on his hit list, and anticipate intense apologising/questioning!

This is just..... such an incredibly strange thing to say.
 

squidyj

Member
I still really want to see everyone elses hot out the gate picks, just for fun, but fun is ABSOLUTELY MANDATORY.
jk, if you're mafia scum and you're afraid of posting a few names, that's fine too.
 

Ourobolus

Banned
My main thinking with the first-come-first-serve was that I want the mechanic to work with as little moderation as possible. I know that time zones are a problem, and also mass voting for four people IN ADDITION to the regular vote is also not ideal.

There are both pros and cons to going on the mission, as I'm sure you all will eventually discover as you play. I was hoping that as the game went along you all would maybe determine a way to send who you want out through discussion, then possible use the Volunteering as the way to communicate that to me.

I get the issues, and I racked my brain for hours before the game ever started trying to think of a fair, non-complicated method of doing this.
 

Hobohodo

Member
Okay I've got a question for everyone.

When reading the rules how many people assumed the volunteer list persisted across days? It seemed obvious to me that it would have to reset as who would put a mechanic into the game, that is going to play a big part over the coming weeks, where the outcome is decided by who can post quickly in the first 5 minutes.

I only bring it up as Mazre asked for clarification, and then Greatlord Tiger decided this was a big piece of information he needed before sharing his hot picks. I didn't think to much of it at the time but looking back now seems odd.
 

Haly

One day I realized that sadness is just another word for not enough coffee.
I was hoping that as the game went along you all would maybe determine a way to send who you want out through discussion, then possible use the Volunteering as the way to communicate that to me.
Alright, as long as that's clear then:

How about we have an agreement to start the new list where the old one ended?

I'd like this to be the "gentleman's agreement":

1) We move down the list of volunteers with every day
2) Cannot volunteer while you're on the list (no queueing up multiple days)
3) Same queue rules as was established. If you unvolunteer and revolunteer, you go back to the end of the list

This way people who really want to get on that mission can do so just by being patient. KGB will have a hard time exploiting it for their own ends, nor can they do so without raising suspicion. This will not need to be managed anymore than Ouro is already managing the volunteer list, there's no subjectiveness here, it's plain for all to see.

I'd like for us to settle this issue ASAP. Preferably by the end of today (August 3rd 2015), once everyone has had a chance to check in.
 
Okay I've got a question for everyone.

When reading the rules how many people assumed the volunteer list persisted across days? It seemed obvious to me that it would have to reset as who would put a mechanic into the game, that is going to play a big part over the coming weeks, where the outcome is decided by who can post quickly in the first 5 minutes.

I only bring it up as Mazre asked for clarification, and then Greatlord Tiger decided this was a big piece of information he needed before sharing his hot picks. I didn't think to much of it at the time but looking back now seems odd.

I wondered about it, but never bothered to ask. Then figured if the volunteer had a read only condition for when he wasn't on a mission, it probably resets each day phase.
 

squidyj

Member
Sorry guys, thought the game started today. Was lurking on another forum about the Drake/meek stuff lol. Anyway, this has my full attention now. Wish I wouldve got in on the mission, but I'll be sure to get in on the other ones. I looked over the thread and saw I think Squidy's post about picking who you should vote for or something like that.

Atm, I would go with:
Roytheone - Think was one of the first ones to point fingers at people who volunteered saying at least one of them could be KGB. Possible, but could be a case where KGB wanted none of their members to volunteer in case of a situation like that.
cooljeanius - Seems to be posting, but not really saying much, like filler? IDK.

That's all I have atm, obviously nothing damning, just thoughts on things so far.

I think roy was after cabbeh?
 

Hobohodo

Member
I'd like this to be the "gentleman's agreement":

1) We move down the list of volunteers with every day
2) Cannot volunteer while you're on the list (no queueing up multiple days)
3) Same queue rules as was established. If you unvolunteer and revolunteer, you go back to the end of the list

This is probably the best balance of making things difficult for the KGB without us needing to spend a chunk of time discussing it each day.
 

squidyj

Member
Mazre was on the dot last game in Day 1. I was going to bandwagon whoever he voted, except squidyj is very valuable as town. Even if he's a KGB covering for himself, discussion is still ultimately pro-town so I decided not to vote for him.

VOTE: roytheone

Reasoning:

1) We're on the brink of voting on whether we should vote for volunteer privileges. If this is not noise, I don't know what is. If you're ISIS, Roy, I know you had our best interests at heart, but so far, this is the most anti-town move I've seen. It's like crowdsourcing fluff generation.

2) We have a three way tie, down from a four way tie. We're not getting anywhere. On the other hand, Danganronpafia has had 4-5 pages of nonstop discussion and voting. We need a majority to move things along.

Unrelated:

Razmos has a point. Some of our players are distinctly disadvantaged from participating in the Volunteer mechanic due to time zones. Unless Ouro switches the day opening time to give others a chance to be the first on the spyplane (i'm against this, it's like moderator favoring), players like YesNo will pretty much never make it on the plane.

Mafia may be not always be fair to players, but it's still a game, and it's a poor thing for a game to exclude people who happen to live in the "wrong" time or place.

I think you're way off base about roy. It feels like he's trying to figure out the game to me and giving pretty good information, a voting solution isn't good but it's a method of control when we need some method of control over the missions and we need to get that out of the way before our next day phase. The last thing we want is to be 6 days into the game and still not be using missions effectively, that'd be disastrous for town.

Vote: Cabbeh[\highlight]

Cabbeh has suggested that if there is a kill on a mission it might be a mistake to lynch the remaining mission members, furthermore he's been suspicious of everyone who volunteered immediately.

I agree with the assessment that mafia would likely not try to send more than one player and It should be clear that from the information we have one of the best ways to save yourself is to be on the mission, if mafia doesn't have a way to overcome the stated restrictions they're not going to want to kill in the mission group, it gives town too much information. Therefore I think Cabbeh's assertion that we should be hunting amongst the early volunteers, given that there are 5 or 6 of them is bad logic, and I think he's trying to promote a mislynch.


There is of course the conspiracy theory that Haly is the mafia candidate and they want to get someone out who's ahead of him on the list so they can get their man in Peruvistan or whatever the fuck the capitol of Peru is.
 

Burbeting

Banned
The issue about volunteering is pretty hard to figure out, since lot of the systems have their ups and downs (the system we have now makes it impossible for some people to ever get to do missions, voting system takes away concentration from the lynch-voting, etc.).

What if we just have some sort of gentlemen's agreement that no one volunteers for the first 24 hours of a day phase? It gives everyone time to say there piece on if they would like to go on their mission andlets us deal with time zones. It's less of a vote that way and instead a way for us to just slow down slightly in regards to players volunteering.

That would take one irl day for people telling if they want to go to mission or not, which would take time off from discussing the lynch itself. And after that 24 hours ends, even though we heard people tell what they think, it would in the end come to speed. So I don't think this is too great of an idea.

Alright, as long as that's clear then:



I'd like this to be the "gentleman's agreement":

1) We move down the list of volunteers with every day
2) Cannot volunteer while you're on the list (no queueing up multiple days)
3) Same queue rules as was established. If you unvolunteer and revolunteer, you go back to the end of the list

This way people who really want to get on that mission can do so just by being patient. KGB will have a hard time exploiting it for their own ends, nor can they do so without raising suspicion. This will not need to be managed anymore than Ouro is already managing the volunteer list, there's no subjectiveness here, it's plain for all to see.

I'd like for us to settle this issue ASAP. Preferably by the end of today (August 3rd 2015), once everyone has had a chance to check in.

This system doesn't sound half-bad, since it does give KGB less room to exploit it, atlhough they can have some power to do so. It also gives more time for the game to center around actual lynch-voting, I think. So if nothing better is proposed, I'd say we could go with this.
 

cabot

Member
I have very little to go on at the moment and that's why I'm currently looking at the early volunteers. If I was in KGB, I'd want to get at least one member in there so theres a scout in the night chat in case anything fruitful comes from it.

First day and all that, I've not seen anything suspicious enough to really take away from this thought.

I think it's only natural to be suspicious of anyone who immediately jumps onto an unknown game mechanic without any discussion, it was literally the only thing they posted at that point.

I haven't promoted any lynch yet, only voted on Ezekel to prod.
 

squidyj

Member
You are viewing the missions as separate from lynching and scumhunting but they're not. they're not at all separate.
 

Hobohodo

Member
everybody gives reads, overall top town go on mission, top scum get fucked.

This being similar to the idea you pushed in AC yeah? At the start of the day we all give our top town/top scum (which we should be doing anyway) and then just average it out to get four people for the mission?
 
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