Support NeoGAF

[DrFunk]

And what about this guy doing blackface?

I'm pretty sure I even saw this being used as an avatar on GAF. Why is this blackface okay? Because it's supposed to be funny? I mean this is even an actor from US for christ's sake.

....it's satire of blackface in a movie. Did you see it?

 

[-Plasma Reus-]

Belgium has some of the most brutal and savage history of colonialism in Africa. I am not surprised there are still traditions like this.

 

[Jackben]

"I will let Belgium decide"

"Cultural context guise, every 1 here is fine with it"

"WHAT ABOUT DIS BLACKFACE CLEARLY USED IN A PARODY FILM?! Checkmate neogaf!!!"

It's amusing that the blackface defense force arguments never approach anything close to intelligent discourse despite being debunked year after year.

Umh no? Only america and canada maybe. Here in europe you see those kind of things regularly and no one ever gave a shit before the internets.

EDIT: same with asian countries. But whatever float your worldviews guys. Continue celebrating columbus day.

lmao @ the bolded. Yes, it's all the internet's fault, ruining your good ole racist traditions.

And no Columbus Day is fucked up too and I protest every year by spreading information about how terrible Columbus was and how the "holiday" should be replaced.

 

[ICKE]

“In other civilised countries his political career wouldn’t survive this, but in Belgium he just continues,” she tweeting, adding that: “Nothing’s changed since the days of Leopold.

I guess the days of Leopold were not that bad then. What a silly statement.

You can make an argument that this is an insensitive tradition but there is really no ill intent behind this phenomenon all things considered. I think one compromise might be to continue this activity while also raising awareness about the negative aspects of African exploration. Even now funds were raised for a good purpose.

Times do change though and society adapts accordingly. In Northern Europe many companies have had to change candy wrappings for example, because minority groups complained about caricatures such as this :

 

[TatteredHat]

I'll leave it up to North Korea to decide what is just and unjust for its own people.

Nice, you should've just gone with a hitler/jew analogy.

 

[Wiktor]

You say that like it's a good thing.

Well.. the black face generally isn't seen as negativelly in Europe or Asia as it lacks as strong cultural context as in America. It's still inapproprieate, and should be changed, but it would be foolish to expect as big outrage for it or demand as severe consequences.

 

[spindashing]

And what about this guy doing blackface?

I'm pretty sure I even saw this being used as an avatar on GAF. Why is this blackface okay? Because it's supposed to be funny? I mean this is even an actor from US for christ's sake.

I don't want to single you out but in every blackface thread on NeoGAF, this is brought up so forgive me if I sound hostile but did you even watch the movie? It is pretty self aware in this portrayal.

 

[Abounder]

That article is supposed to be a send in by Vladimir Putin. Making putin a racist bastard. Not an actual opinion by the magazine.

That and it is racist which is why the so-called progressive newspaper De Morgen apologized. In their apology they stated they had no idea it would be seen as tasteless which is either ignorance to a high degree or simply racist.

Or as you say, nobody in Belgium "gives any fucks":

It is already a big step that De Morgen has apologized. But an apology is just the beginning. De Morgen isn't racist. What is racist is the society that enables acts of racism to thrive with impunity

Black people in Belgium have no political voice, no economic voice, so in a way society forgets that we exist #Belgium

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/...barack-president-racism-racist_n_5020987.html

 

[SURGEdude]

Umh no? Only america and canada maybe. Here in europe you see those kind of things regularly and no one ever gave a shit before the internets.

EDIT: same with asian countries. But whatever float your worldviews guys. Continue celebrating columbus day.

Columbus Day is only a legal holiday in Puerto Rico, the Virgin Islands,some south American countries, Italy and Spain if I remember correctly. So not sure what you are getting at.

Also Asian countries don't have the sort of blood on their hands that the west does with regards to Africa so again I have no clue what you are trying to get at. Well other than excusing this kind of thing of course.

Claim "No one cares in this country" guys and just ignore the fact that there were people mentioned in the story itself criticizing the guy from within Belgium? Come on.

Yeah the generalization about Belgians is pretty nasty in here, about on weight with the apologists.

 

[jimi_dini]

You didn't watch the movie did you?

I watched a review of it. Not my taste at all.
Anyway, it's an "actor playing an actor doing blackface", but it's still blackface. Effectively an actor doing blackface.

 

[AkuMifune]

Nice, you should've just gone with a hitler/jew analogy.

Point remains. It's a global culture/we should be striving for one. We're free to judge the inherent racism/injustice in any culture now. We should be obligated to do it because sometimes it takes other cultures holding up a mirror for them to see their own reflection.

I watched a review of it. Not my taste at all.
Anyway, it's an "actor playing an actor doing blackface", but it's still blackface. Effectively an actor doing blackface.

It's a parody of blackface.They even go to pains to point out how ridiculous it is. See the movie or your opinion is invalid.

 

[leadbelly]

Well.. the black face generally isn't seen as negativelly in Europe or Asia as it lacks as strong cultural context as in America. It's still inapproprieate, and should be changed, but it would be foolish to expect as big outrage for it or demand as severe consequences.

Yeah. In this day and age, there should be more awareness of it, but the reason it isn't as taboo in Europe as it is in the US is because there is a whole other history behind blackface that isn't really shared with European countries.

 

[Paskil]

I guess the days of Leopold were not that bad then. What a silly statement.

You can make an argument that this is an insensitive tradition but there is really no ill intent behind this phenomenon all things considered. I think a good compromise would be to continue this activity while also raising awareness about the negative aspects of African exploration. Even now funds were raised for a good purpose.

This is basically saying:

"I'll continue to call you a nigg

Spoiler

er

, but I'll be sure to tell everyone why the word is bad and wrong."

And regardless whether the intent is ill or not, it's still very offensive. Stating that I didn't know something was wrong is not a valid defense in court.

 

[ampere]

America seems less bad when I read stories like this

People are capable of being crappy and insensitive anywhere really.

I watched a review of it. Not my taste at all.
Anyway, it's an "actor playing an actor doing blackface", but it's still blackface. Effectively an actor doing blackface.

It was criticizing it... the character was batshit insane. Def did not glorify blackface at all

 

[Simply Sarah]

Umh no? Only america and canada maybe. Here in europe you see those kind of things regularly and no one ever gave a shit before the internets.

EDIT: same with asian countries. But whatever float your worldviews guys. Continue celebrating columbus day.

Just because people happily and eagerly go along with racism/sexism/other sorts of injustice doesn't mean it's not racism/sexism/other sorts of injustice.

 

[NYCmetsfan]

I watched a review of it. Not my taste at all.
Anyway, it's an "actor playing an actor doing blackface", but it's still blackface. Effectively an actor doing blackface.

lol.

Do you have a problem with this too?

 

[spindashing]

I watched a review of it. Not my taste at all.
Anyway, it's an "actor playing an actor doing blackface", but it's still blackface. Effectively an actor doing blackface.

An actor playing blackface, in a story where blackface is seen as wrong and characters do criticize him for it. But he is a "method actor" that tries his best to portray the role nonetheless, albeit his means of acting is silly.

 

[HuskerDutheDu]

Is there a flowchart where everything ends on "don't do blackface?"

 

[Wiktor]

America seems less bad when I read stories like this

People are capable of being crappy and insensitive anywhere really.

European doing blackface is nowhere near as bad from moral standpoint as America doing it. Not even close.

 

[studyguy]

European doing blackface is nowhere near as bad from moral standpoint as America doing it. Not even close.

In what world would this ever be true.

 

[NYCmetsfan]

European doing blackface is nowhere near as bad from moral standpoint as America doing it. Not even close.

How is it any different?

 

[Slayven]

I watched a review of it. Not my taste at all.
Anyway, it's an "actor playing an actor doing blackface", but it's still blackface. Effectively an actor doing blackface.

If you going to try to make a point, try to have all the facts. EVERYBODY in the movie called him out for doing it, and showed he was literally insane.

Watch the movie and then come back and talk about it

 

[Enzom21]

I watched a review of it. Not my taste at all.
Anyway, it's an "actor playing an actor doing blackface", but it's still blackface. Effectively an actor doing blackface.

Are you serious?! You're using a picture of a movie that you've never seen to excuse blackface? I guess you are that dense. Watch the movie or shut up about it.

 

[Paskil]

European doing blackface is nowhere near as bad from moral standpoint as America doing it. Not even close.

Just because we ended slavery more recently doesn't excuse the generations of colonial conquest and slavery that also took place in Europe. I would argue that it should be more offensive in Europe.

 

[Abounder]

European doing blackface is nowhere near as bad from moral standpoint as America doing it. Not even close.

Nonsense especially considering history or futbol chants and throwing bananas on the field

 

[Wiktor]

In what world would this ever be true.

In real world. Where somebody doing bad untintentionally is always far lesser crime than when somebody doing the same with ill will.
In america blackface is widely recognized as racist and if you're doing it that's clearly the intention you have, In europe there still isn't such public knowledge, so in most cases when people put on blackfaces they have no bad intentions, they're just ignorant.

 

[spindashing]

European doing blackface is nowhere near as bad from moral standpoint as America doing it. Not even close.

It's still the same level of ignorance no matter where it is being done. You expect me to just "accept" that people have forgotten why people have dressed up as black caricatures?

 

[Forkball]

Imagine if you were carrying about your day and you saw these guys coming straight towards you.

 

[AkuMifune]

In real world. Where somebody doing bad untintentionally is always far lesser crime than when somebody doing the same with ill will.
In america blackface is widely recognized as racist and if you're doing it that's clearly the intention you have, In europe there still isn't such public knowledge, so in most cases when people put on blackfaces they have no bad intentions, they're just ignorant.

Ignorance is not an excuse. Just because you don't have as much baggage there over it doesn't make it less insulting.

 

[ampere]

European doing blackface is nowhere near as bad from moral standpoint as America doing it. Not even close.

?

I have a lot of recent ancestors from Europe, but I live in the US so on a scale of 1 - 10 how bad is it if I do blackface?

Can you understand that your statement is ridiculous. An uneducated hick who literally lives in a bubble and is raised by idiots doing blackface would be kind of sad perpetuation of racism, but for any educated person to do it is disgusting and awful.

 

[Simply Sarah]

In real world. Where somebody doing bad untintentionally is always far lesser crime than when somebody doing the same with ill will.
In america blackface is widely recognized as racist and if you're doing it that's clearly the intention you have, In europe there still isn't such public knowledge, so in most cases when people put on blackfaces they have no bad intentions, they're just ignorant.

Willful ignorance, which any ignorance here would be, is not really any better or different than accepting something as true and ignoring it anyway.

 

[NYCmetsfan]

In real world. Where somebody doing bad untintentionally is always far lesser crime than when somebody doing the same with ill will.
In america blackface is widely recognized as racist and if you're doing it that's clearly the intention you have, In europe there still isn't such public knowledge, so in most cases when people put on blackfaces they have no bad intentions, they're just ignorant.

Because Europe is ignorant of his brutal and racist colonial history you expect people to think its better?

These traditions began during the colonial period when Europe was profiting off the backs of millions of Africans, treating them horribly and decimating their land. These traditions such as this were brought back as a kind of amusement by those that were committing those crimes.

This was less than 100 years ago this stuff. This isn't a long time ago. I don't use intentional cultural amnesisia as an excuse. There things have been criticized since their inception by Africans and other minority groups in Europe but because they're ignored and marginalized (go to a zwart pete thread) its ok?

edit: that was quick

 

[Rembrandt]

I haven't read all of the posts, but do we already have the people claiming this isn't racist or its a part of some weird tradition, like how almost all topics about racism goes in countries like this.


Edit: yup, lmao. Not surprised.

This is racist regardless.

 

[bishoptl]

A few folks now have additional time on their hands to work on their ignorance.

 

[Violet_0]

someone ought to stick a little warning at the beginning of every Zwarte Piet/ Noirauds thread, just to see if people actually read it

 

[Lovely Salsa]

I dunno, I've never felt much racism here in Belgium against black people. Most of the racism here seems geared towards Islam and the Muslim community as in almost every other European country.

So what ethnicities experience racism there?

 

[spindashing]

I understand things being omitted from history books. As a black man living in the US, I understand that very well. To this day, I am still learning of atrocities committed not even that long ago that was not even touched up upon during my schooling.

For things like this, when people actually dress up as offensive black caricatures... It is a fucking shame that things have gone to the point where people have forgotten the origins of such a thing when the information is out there for their disposal.

But what do I know? I'm just a guy living in 2015 with people around me telling me to "let go" and "forget" about things like slavery and racism.

 

[Rembrandt]

I understand things being omitted from history books. As a black man living in the US, I understand that very well. To this day, I am still learning of atrocities committed not even that long ago that was not even touched up upon during my schooling.

For things like this, when people actually dress up as offensive black caricatures... It is a fucking shame that things have gone to the point where people have forgotten the origins of such a thing when the information is out there for their disposal.

But what do I know? I'm just a guy living in 2015 with people around me being told to "let go" and "forget" about things like slavery and racism.

Can you really be surprised when a poll has shown white people feel racism discrimination towards them is worse than it is for us? Sadly, these attitudes are so commonplace on an era where an influx of info about racism can be found, but is still denied. It's truly sad as fuck.

It's even worse on sites like this where I assume even the worst posters are somewhat more educated than your average poster on other sites, but idk, man.

 

[ampere]

So what ethnicities experience racism there?

Anecdotal, but when I was riding on a night train from France to Germany while studying abroad, one of my roommates (American guy, ethnically Indian) was seriously harassed by the passport checking crew when we passed through some country. Dark skin = where are your papers!? They stopped when we (three white guys) said he was with us though...

 

[Paskil]

But what do I know? I'm just a guy living in 2015 with people around me telling me to "let go" and "forget" about things like slavery and racism.

Because obviously, we're a post racial society. Rather than being indicative of any larger trend, every time a race related incident occurs, it's just an isolated incident. DUH! Shh, go back to sleep.

 

[adamsappel]

And what about this guy doing blackface?

I'm pretty sure I even saw this being used as an avatar on GAF. Why is this blackface okay? Because it's supposed to be funny? I mean this is even an actor from US for christ's sake.

Never go full blackface.

 

[Übermatik]

Wow, some people's moral compasses are way out in this thread.

Tradition/social outlook does not negate something being racist.

 

[DizzyCrow]

Even with the bullshit excuse that the Belgium people doesn't care, he still is the freaking foreign minister so he should know that most of the civilized world cares.

 

[Simply Sarah]

Because obviously, we're a post racial society. Rather than being indicative of any larger trend, every time a race related incident occurs, it's just an isolated incident. DUH! Shh, go back to sleep.

I was originally responding to this with a highly sarcastic post about how it's "post racial except against white people", but even that was making me angry and sick so I stopped, deleted it, and I'm posting this instead. The idea the we're past racism just because most people are less likely to explicitly say a racial group is sub/not human is ridiculous and painful. So much more effort being put into attempting to justify why something isn't racist instead of, you know, using it to change.

 

[sestrugen]

And what about this guy doing blackface?

I'm pretty sure I even saw this being used as an avatar on GAF. Why is this blackface okay? Because it's supposed to be funny? I mean this is even an actor from US for christ's sake.

The actor is mocked and ridiculed because of his use of blackface, that was the whole point but you would know that if you would have watched the movie instead of trying to find a double standard so you can justify the acts of some ignorant humans.

 

[FartOfWar]

European doing blackface is nowhere near as bad from moral standpoint as America doing it. Not even close.

Oh. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leopold_II_of_Belgium#Exploitation_and_atrocities

 

[Linius]

I'll leave it up to North Korea to decide what is just and unjust for its own people.

That's a pretty bad comparison. The people of Belgium have a right to free speech and are not oppressed by a single leader. If this is a cultural thing (a tradition since 1867 in fact) for them the world can't expect them to change their mindset over night.

Pretty ignorant to compare what's happening in Belgium to people in North Korea living under horrible circumstances with their human rights being violated every day.

 

[Vitten]

So what ethnicities experience racism there?

In Belgium ? Most of the racism here is against the moroccans as they constitute the majority of the islam community and their integration in society isn't always smooth.
Jews are also subject here to racism, there is a large chassidic community which is a very closed group with their own traditions and customs that looks weird to outsiders.

Then there's also some racism againt Eastern Europeans ethnicities: some people think they're only thieves and robbers. ( Doesn't help that papers often have sensational headlines about yet another Romanian thief gang or Albanian Mafia shootings )

.. oh, and there's also lots of 'racist' jokes about the Dutch but that is mostly folklore and part of an ancient rivalry. We joke about the Dutch being greedy and cheap but they consider us dumb and simple so it's all good in the end.

 

[Ahasverus]

This specific instance has a racist and offensive sense. However I sense that people sometimes project their surrounding matters to parts of the world where it doesn't apply. There is a festivity here in a city of Colombia where "light" people (I don't think there is real white people here tbh) paint themselves in blackface.. offensive right? well no, because there is another day for people to paint themselves in white, and it's a predomiantly african descesant population which keeps the festivity as cultural heritage. Look it up http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blacks_and_Whites'_Carnival The whole goal of the festivity is to show how people how ridiculous the notion of race is. But I'm sure people would be up in arms from a passing perspective.
So yes, blackface is terrible, yet it's irresponsible to damn any instance of culturally significant black makeup as blackface.

 

[AkuMifune]

That's a pretty bad comparison. The people of Belgium have a right to free speech and are not oppressed by a single leader. If this is a cultural thing (a tradition since 1867 in fact) for them the world can't expect them to change their mindset over night.

Pretty ignorant to compare what's happening in Belgium to people in North Korea living under horrible circumstances with their human rights being violated every day.

Yeah it was terrible. I was just trying to say that the kind of attitude that we aren't allowed to criticize other cultures is bunk. We're all held to the same standards of human decency now.

Or at least we should be.