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[mik83kuu]

You get to choose six skills to use at any one time.

You get to switch them out any time.

BUT YOU HAVE ACCESS TO ALL OF THEM.

So everyone gets every ability.

Which is hot wet garbage.

Hi!

As much as your posts annoy me, you are 100% correct on the bolded statements. Could you, for the sake of this conversation, explain to me how and why this is bad? I am honestly interested in your opinion, not just trying to argue with you

The system in Diablo 2 was used so that people dumped all their points in few abilities and used them exclusively from there onward. This new system actually encourages people to use six spells or abilities instead of the three or four they would normally put points in Diablo 2.

An actual example would be me playing a barbarian and another barbarian pops in my game. Now first of all he's using up to six skills, all customized, when fighting with me. That is way more than in Diablo 2. Just because he has Whirlwind, like I do, it doesn't mean he's using it and if he is, his Whirlwind could be quite a bit different than mine due to customization. Just because he could change his "loadout" to match mine without re-rolling a character or paying a set amount of gold, doesn't make the game any less enjoyable to me. Why would I care if his character is identical to mine, when his actual gameplay isn't and even with identical "loadouts" it wouldn't be any different from identical skill-trees, which people copied from forums and pro-players anyways.

 

[FieryBalrog]

You would with a point system that allowed respecs too.

In fact, the skill system is meaningless with unlimited respecs, which Jay Wilson mentions in the interview.

The solution of course is non-unlimited respecs, but since runes are essentially doing just that, it could work out well.

The D2 system is not flawless. It can be a really bad experience for a newbie to find that his build sucks for Hell difficulty because he didn't save up all his points and scrape by with Fireball until level 30.

The stat system was even worse in that regard. The massive complexity of stats actually boiled down to about two real optimal choices (STR to gear, rest all VIT; or STR to gear, DEX to max block and rest all VIT). And in return, it was super easy to gimp yourself.

 

[J-Rzez]

Didn't realize blizzard lost another 300k "subscribers", totaling close to 1 million "subscribers" within 6 months. They may start cracking that whip finally over there.

 

[Zaptruder]

So lemme get this right...

- 6 hot keys for skills
- 20 skills that you can switch between at any time
- skills are modified via the use of runes


question: you can rerune a skill, but it destroys the rune? Or do you simply pop runes in and out at your behest?

If the former, then you're still kinda 'locked' into a variation of a skill, depending on how it's runed, but the kindness is that you're able to regrind (for a new rune) to change the variation if you desire - still a grind and a punishment for getting it wrong, but not as large a punishment, and still allows for and encourages experimentation.

Which is part of the fun.


I suppose what the system does do though is stop people from rerolling new characters for new builds - which could stifle low/mid level play when the community is more mature. With this sort of a system, is there any incentive for rerolling?

That said, it's kinda the same situation that exists in WoW; so maybe that's the kind of end game they'll go for?

i.e. hit max level, and the second half of the game begins - grinding for the loot that you actually aim to keep.

 

[CarbonatedFalcon]

In fact, the skill system is meaningless with unlimited respecs, which Jay Wilson mentions in the interview.

The solution of course is non-unlimited respecs, but since runes are essentially doing just that, it could work out well.

I'm not sure if you meant this, but it's not clear in either the proposed system or the current system if runestones are consumables (think gems in WoW or Torchlight) where you have to overwrite a runestone with a new one, destroying the old one in the process, or if they have a cost associated with unsocketing them, or they are freely interchangeable. I made a post on the other page that picked up on the implications from the developers that as is, runes are freely interchangeable or changeable with a relatively insignificant cost. If they are indeed destructible, then runes do pretty much serve as a talent point/skill system in the traditional sense, but better.

So lemme get this right...

- 6 hot keys for skills
- 20 skills that you can switch between at any time
- skills are modified via the use of runes


question: you can rerune a skill, but it destroys the rune? Or do you simply pop runes in and out at your behest?

If the former, then you're still kinda 'locked' into a variation of a skill, depending on how it's runed, but the kindness is that you're able to regrind (for a new rune) to change the variation if you desire - still a grind and a punishment for getting it wrong, but not as large a punishment, and still allows for and encourages experimentation.

Which is part of the fun.


I suppose what the system does do though is stop people from rerolling new characters for new builds - which could stifle low/mid level play when the community is more mature. With this sort of a system, is there any incentive for rerolling?

That said, it's kinda the same situation that exists in WoW; so maybe that's the kind of end game they'll go for?

i.e. hit max level, and the second half of the game begins - grinding for the loot that you actually aim to keep.

Read my above musings, but basically, it isn't clear. It hasn't been indicated strongly either way whether runes are destructible, but it seems implied so far that they aren't in the current system.

 

[Goldmund]

oh gosh. make it happen. push harder.

That's the thing, isn't it? We don't know which hole it will emerge from. Still hoping for a newborn child with a gloriole (if low-end PCs and consoles can handle that effect).

 

[Instro]

As far as I am aware swapping runestones doesn't cause you to lose the runes, or any other penalties. They have said there will be some sort of small limitation to prevent people from running scripts to auto switch runes super quickly, so you'll probably only be able to switch runes in town or something.

 

[-tetsuo-]

If you enjoy deluding yourself into liking the game half so well as you have deluded yourself about the changes, then you'll be one happy lil' camper.

But everyone gets all of the same skills - they can set them up differently, choose which ones to use, but it's still the same thing for everyone, and it's still nonsense.

Do you have any comprehension whatsoever?

You get to choose six skills to use at any one time.

You get to switch them out any time.

BUT YOU HAVE ACCESS TO ALL OF THEM.

So everyone gets every ability.

Which is hot wet garbage.

Why don't YOU stop spreading the bullshit?

Everyone has every ability as opposed to everyone having the same 4 abilities, copied from a FAQ online. Sounds ok to me.

 

[V_Arnold]

This year just doesn't seem likely. I know the beta won't need to be as long as Starcraft's, but we've only got a few months left in this year. I don't think Activision wants to release this in November where MW3 is, and December is just a weird month. I think January is likely, though.

December was a perfect month for Wrath of The Lich King.
EDIT: Bah, and that was november, lol.

 

[Valnen]

According to what I've read, the current rune system works as follows..assuming I understand it correctly

You socket a colorless rune into a skill. When you attune the rune, it rolls a random color and stat bonus, and becomes attuned to that skill. If you take it out, the rune is still attuned to that skill and has it's current bonus and everything, so you can't just get 1 of every color with decent stat bonuses and be good to go. For example...

Let's say you play a Wizard. You socket a rune into Disintegrate. It becomes an obsidian rune attuned to disintegrate with +10 attack. You don't like this rune, so you decide to take it out. That rune is still a obsidian disintegrate rune with +10 attack in your inventory. You can't use it for anything else now. This makes runes a consumable item, to an extent. You could even trade the rune to another Wizard who wants that specific setup.

This means that people will need to choose which skills they really like before they start experimenting with runes, rather than just swapping out skills whenever. It also makes a market for runes.

This is much more interesting than skill points, as far as I'm concerned. It plays into the loot nature of Diablo really well.

 

[Deleted member 81567]

I think it should stay in development for a little while, gameplay looked mediocre.

 

[Shao Kahn Brewing a Stew]

If it's this year I'm going to rush to build a new PC.

For the love of God, fixed.

I think it should stay in development for a little while, gameplay looked mediocre.

Oh for the love of God, you edited your post!

 

[Valnen]

I think it should stay in development for a little while, gameplay looked mediocre.

Looks a step up from every other ARPG on the market from all the research I've done, honestly.

 

[CarbonatedFalcon]

According to what I've read, the current rune system works as follows..assuming I understand it correctly

You socket a colorless rune into a skill. When you attune the rune, it rolls a random color and stat bonus, and becomes attuned to that skill. If you take it out, the rune is still attuned to that skill and has it's current bonus and everything, so you can't just get 1 of every color with decent stat bonuses and be good to go. For example...

Let's say you play a Wizard. You socket a rune into Disintegrate. It becomes an obsidian rune attuned to disintegrate with +10 attack. You don't like this rune, so you decide to take it out. That rune is still a obsidian disintegrate rune with +10 attack in your inventory. You can't use it for anything else now. This makes runes a consumable item, to an extent. You could even trade the rune to another Wizard who wants that specific setup.

This means that people will need to choose which skills they really like before they start experimenting with runes, rather than just swapping out skills whenever. It also makes a market for runes.

This is much more interesting than skill points, as far as I'm concerned. It plays into the loot nature of Diablo really well.

That's the proposed "theory" system that they intend to test and hopefully implement. If you read my rune dissertation (lol) on the last page, you'll see that I think this is definitely an improvement over the "old" system, but I still think it could be tweaked to make it better. I think the double-randomness of 20% chance for rune you want (unless specific types are weighted more...) and the the chance of getting a decent affix is just too much. Since runes basically are skills points now, it would be annoying to be blowing through or buying (theoretically rare and expensive) level 7 runes to get the build you want. It could work if balanced very carefully, but I think the suggestions I wrote out on the previous page would result in a richer and less frustrating system.

 

[Durante]

Everyone has every ability as opposed to everyone having the same 4 abilities, copied from a FAQ online. Sounds ok to me.

As one of the people who wrote the FAQs, I greatly enjoyed experimenting with different builds. The fact that there were 30 skills and some time investment was required with each experiment meant that it wasn't possible for everyone to experience every possible build in a few days, which made it more rewarding to discover a new build that works well.

The more I hear about D3 the more I dislike it.

 

[Valnen]

As one of the people who wrote the FAQs, I greatly enjoyed experimenting with different builds. The fact that there were 30 skills and some time investment was required with each experiment meant that it wasn't possible for everyone to experience every possible build in a few days, which made it more rewarding to discover a new build that works well.

The more I hear about D3 the more I dislike it.

This is true, but not everyone liked the old system either. It was too punishing as far as I'm concerned, personally.

 

[Scrow]

believe it when i see it.

blizzard time

 

[V_Arnold]

As one of the people who wrote the FAQs, I greatly enjoyed experimenting with different builds. The fact that there were 30 skills and some time investment was required with each experiment meant that it wasn't possible for everyone to experience every possible build in a few days, which made it more rewarding to discover a new build that works well.

The more I hear about D3 the more I dislike it.

It is not possible in D3 to "experience" every possible build in a few days. Mathematically impossible. But anyways, build testing in D3 will be totally different than in D2, and those who wanna stick to the old ways can simply continue playing D2 Or try this new stuff, where the hard part wont be "getting" that skill (aka putting some points in it).

 

[John_B]

The new skill system will have many more viable builds. The old skill system punished you for combining certain skills. You can combine Fireball with Frozen Orb, but you don't have nearly enough points to upgrade both of them to maximum damage, so it's a weak and useless build. It could have been fun to play, we'll never know...

The new skill system will result in tons of playstyle variety. The old skill system locked you into a certain build. It could be very weak if not planned properly, and at the same time making adjustments or trying out things were also punished. So people went to websites and read guides about strong builds. Diablo 2 is filled with cookie cutter builds that all play exactly the same. A weird result of having so many options.

We want freedom to customize our character. Not just how it looks or how much life/mana/defense/attack it has. In WoW I didn't have one prefered build for my rogue. I had different builds for arena, duels against different classes, battle grounds, raiding, grinding etc. I spend little time using different builds because changing builds came with a penalty.

Players have been indoctrinated with old game design. Nobody has yet to explain why the old skill system was so fun and awesome, they just make these weird forum posts that says they don't like changes.

 

[Deleted member 81567]

For the love of God, fixed.



Oh for the love of God, you edited your post!

I love buying mediocre games.

 

[Valnen]

I love buying mediocre games.

And being a wet blanket for people who are excited for things, apparently.

 

[Deleted member 81567]

And being a wet blanket for people who are excited for things, apparently.

Excited for mediocre things.

 

[Valnen]

Excited for mediocre things.

Awesome things in our opinion, mediocre in your opinion.

 

[Deleted member 81567]

Awesome things in our opinion, mediocre in your opinion.

I forgot we talk in opinions. Sorry bro.

 

[TheChewyWaffles]

That's the thing, isn't it? We don't know which hole it will emerge from. Still hoping for a newborn child with a gloriole (if low-end PCs and consoles can handle that effect).

oh my...lol

 

[Rygar 8 Bit]

stupid smarch weather

 

[54-46!]

I'm thinking late 2012, early 2013.

 

[French]

Yeah, can't wait to not being able to buy the items I want because people will use the real money auction house.

 

[Corky]

I'm thinking late 2012, early 2013.

No, it's coming out 2012, be it january or december it's coming out calendar 2012.

 

[Valnen]

Yeah, can't wait to not being able to buy the items I want because people will use the real money auction house.

You technically don't need to put any money into it to buy things from it if you're smart.

 

[antipod]

Yeah, can't wait to not being able to buy the items I want because people will use the real money auction house.

Well, then, use it yourself?

 

[Ikuu]

Yeah, can't wait to not being able to buy the items I want because people will use the real money auction house.

They wouldn't have sold them for gold either.

 

[Fjord]

Skill system sounds great, similar to Guild Wars. Of course guild wars had hundreds of skills to chose your kit from, but should still be interesting.

 

[MrKnives]

Well, then, use it yourself?

Not everyone wants to use RM. I personally don't.
Still just going to sell stuff I don't need for ebalance and use that to buy stuff I do need. You don't have to use RM to buy stuff from RM AH

 

[Yoshichan]

Just woke up... still says "file is unavailable" when I try to update my beta profile.

Help, anyone?

 

[MrKnives]

Just woke up... still says "file is unavailable" when I try to update my beta profile.

Help, anyone?

Change the language setting in the lower part of the page to "English - EU"

 

[Kosma]

Everyone has every ability as opposed to everyone having the same 4 abilities, copied from a FAQ online. Sounds ok to me.

True.

Sometimes change is good, and this is one of them. Of course it was fun to make a shitty build and see where it takes you, but honestly I'd rather experiment around without wasting 20 hours of time in leveling up again and I'm pretty sure I'm not alone.

If anything this will increase the number of people that play with fun wacky skills just for kicks now and then.

 

[Yoshichan]

Change the language setting in the lower part of the page to "English - EU"

Thank you!

 

[MrKnives]

Thank you!

My pleasure.
If you get in and get a extra key "for a friend" you know where to find me ^^

 

[FieryBalrog]

The new skill system will have many more viable builds. The old skill system punished you for combining certain skills. You can combine Fireball with Frozen Orb, but you don't have nearly enough points to upgrade both of them to maximum damage, so it's a weak and useless build. It could have been fun to play, we'll never know...

That's partially because of the synergies. It was much better before 1.10, when very little depended on each other. You had enough points at level 85 or so (where a lot of people would realistically stop, given the ludicrous curve from 86-99) to get four skills up but they could be a lot of combinations. Obviously not everything was viable, and because I only ever played sorceress I actually only had 2 active skills to work with.

However, this system sounds even more open, and that's a good thing.

Players have been indoctrinated with old game design. Nobody has yet to explain why the old skill system was so fun and awesome, they just make these weird forum posts that says they don't like changes.

I think you're not giving the old system enough credit.

 

[Corky]

My pleasure.
If you get in and get a extra key "for a friend" you know where to find me ^^

Ninja please... he knows who he is going to give it to.

( by god yoshi I will turn heaven and earth to find your hiding place! )

 

[Yoshichan]

I'm guaranteed at least one beta key (I have four active accounts), I will definitely share if I manage to get another one ♥

(by god yoshi I will turn heaven and earth to find your hiding place!)

I laughed XD

 

[-tetsuo-]

As one of the people who wrote the FAQs, I greatly enjoyed experimenting with different builds. The fact that there were 30 skills and some time investment was required with each experiment meant that it wasn't possible for everyone to experience every possible build in a few days, which made it more rewarding to discover a new build that works well.

The more I hear about D3 the more I dislike it.

There will still be optimal builds, though. Folks will find stacks of runs on certain abilities that give the best "performance". There will always be min-maxing. It just will be achieved in a different way.

 

[antipod]

Not everyone wants to use RM. I personally don't.
Still just going to sell stuff I don't need for ebalance and use that to buy stuff I do need. You don't have to use RM to buy stuff from RM AH

I know that which is why I asked him why he wouldn't use it himself. Just didn't want to spell it all out, to make him think a bit more.

I'm gonna do like you described. Not that fond of buying items for real money as it takes away the fun of finding items. Trading on the other hand; and by doing as you said the money in the system just becomes more or less an in-game currency. From a personal viewpoint that is, since some people have to add funds to the system in the first place.

 

[fierrotlepou]

Didn't they say the same thing a few months ago? "Driving hard to release this year." Also during a conference call?

 

[John_B]

I think you're not giving the old system enough credit.

It's not so much the skill points I have a problem with. The locking of playstyle/build always seemed very annoying to me in both Diablo 2 and World of Warcraft. It felt like these limitations were put in place to "fix" entirely different issues like replayability or balancing economy. I'm still unable to see the positive effects it had on enjoying the game.

Diablo 2 was/is still awesome. Not because of any one element. Blizzard is messing around with the ingredients and some people are worried they will get served a completely different dish.

 

[Nostalgic Nightmare]

At this point I took what was said as posturing for a 2012 release.
If you assume that Blizzard is going to release when it makes more sense financially for them it's going to be 2012. If they could care less about appeasing shareholders, and really want to get it out to fans, storefronts etc, I would think they would have to announce it really soon for a 2011 release. Who knows, maybe something will come out at Blizzcon.

 

[tokra2003]

I'm guaranteed at least one beta key (I have four active accounts)...

Hmmm sorry to disturb you but your not guaranteed to get one.Yes you have more chance tho

 

[Yoshichan]

Hmmm sorry to disturb you but your not guaranteed to get one.Yes you have more chance tho

Don't worry bro, I'm not disturbed in any way, shape or form.

 

[zlatko]

They should just be pushing to get me the beta this year. I expect this game will launch May of next year at the earliest.