Face it Tiger..
Banned
Taking $10 off the purchase & then holding #DC behind the paywall curtain is scummy.
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Buy $50 Driveclub PS+ upgrade, lose access if your PS+ sub lapses
- Thread starter alr1ght
- Start date
No, that's not the issue. It's the idea the lure of a discount for something tied to a subscription in an already confusing system, and counter to how paid purchases have worked to this point. It's a bad precedent regardless of the discount and muddies the waters.
Family Fry
Member
Now we know why it's called driveclub ps+ edition.
The only resolution they could try is, sell the full digital game on store for $10 ps+ discount.
I can't imagine GameStop and all the retail partners being happy with that day one discount though.
Family Fry
Member
I really couldn't believe the video they made and put on the blog, one that told you the difference between the versions and upgrades.
flyinpiranha
Member
Paywall Defense Force. I can't believe you'd use the "I mean, are you even going to be playing it then?" excuse. That's sad.
And it wasn't a mistake. It was intended. And they will change it to benefit us because people complained about a shitty practice.
I'm done. This is just icing on the cake. My personal beef lies with the changing of what was initially offered with PS+ and how they presented it. Now the way they turn this demo+upgrade and hold behind a paywall even after "upgrading" is a joke.
Sucks, it was going to be my hyped game for Morpheus next year, but by then maybe I'll see it on PS+ as the free game and I won't have to pay a dime for it. At least then I won't mind it being tied to my PS+ account.
I meant the Plus Upgrade goes away when your PS+ sub expries.
If this upgrade was, say, $30 or something... maybe this approach to the "PS+ Edition" wouldn't go over so poorly.
As it stands, it feels like they didn't question the business model well enough here. The PS+ sales design where you purchase and get to keep a game is where they should've gone if they were going to go with a $50 price tag.
As it stands, it feels like they didn't question the business model well enough here. The PS+ sales design where you purchase and get to keep a game is where they should've gone if they were going to go with a $50 price tag.
Neuromancer
Member
If it's a great game? Of course I will. I still play Dirt 1 every once in a while and that game came out 7 years ago. And (not a racing game) I recently played through Doom again, from a CD-ROM I bought in the mid 90's.
Don't make the mistake of thinking everyone treats games as disposable as you do.
I don't know, I feel like you're essentially saying the same thing than I do, with a negative twist. I mean it's not like they kept quiet and people found out after buying the game.
If a big electronics store offers me to buy a $1,000 TV that I can actually pay for in 12 instalments, but the contract mentions that I end up paying $1,200, I'm not gonna call for "consumer abuse". Maybe I'm just jaded, I don't know.
Pyramid head
Banned
I still play many of the games I purchased through Xbox Live over the years. The idea that I wouldn't be able to do that since I became a lowly Silver member peasant is pretty abhorrent to me.
Depends whether such a business model was considered successful I suppose.
Family Fry
Member
Oh I agree with the original quote, was just saying the video also highlighted you required ps+ for the upgrade BUT there was another option, you could buy it from store OR digitally, for more!
A bad idea gone wrong, on all levels from Sony.
Yea they kinda got stuck in the middle. They didn't want to go and call the PS+ edition a "demo" and they seemingly don't want to change the ecosystem to support the ability to actually own a certain PS+ game once you buy a particular dlc bundle for it or buy it outright for a discount.
I will be interesting to see how they respond to the backlash.
The dirrenece here is that you spend $930 dollars upfront and pay $900 dollar installments every year to keep the TV. Sure the $900 dollars get you other bonuses, but those bonuses were meant to include things you payed for while you were a member.
deranged_666
Member
In the other thread a couple of weeks back, where it was discussed what the free PS+ Edition of the game would include, I stuck up for Evolution/Sony, and I still genuinely believe that anyone complaining about the amount of content in a free PS+ release, where it costs nothing to download and play other than the price of a PS+ subscription, is acting a tad entitled.
But this whole practice of a $50 purchase being tied to your sub? Completely ridiculous. It does more than just rub me the wrong way...it turns me off almost completely to the game. Not only is this a bad deal for consumers, but I can genuinely see legit confusion surrounding this. Sony has never tied PS Plus discount purchases to the sub, only the free Instant Game Collection. This sets a really bad precedent, and I can't imagine will be any good for selling the game to consumers.
I was honestly so excited for Driveclub. Game has always looked damn gorgeous, and while I was never a huge, rabid fan of the driving genre, the amount of initial goodwill shown by offering an extensive version of the game for free got me interested in supporting the project with my money and time. Now? I can't see myself rewarding this kind of behavior at all with a purchase. How deflating.
But this whole practice of a $50 purchase being tied to your sub? Completely ridiculous. It does more than just rub me the wrong way...it turns me off almost completely to the game. Not only is this a bad deal for consumers, but I can genuinely see legit confusion surrounding this. Sony has never tied PS Plus discount purchases to the sub, only the free Instant Game Collection. This sets a really bad precedent, and I can't imagine will be any good for selling the game to consumers.
I was honestly so excited for Driveclub. Game has always looked damn gorgeous, and while I was never a huge, rabid fan of the driving genre, the amount of initial goodwill shown by offering an extensive version of the game for free got me interested in supporting the project with my money and time. Now? I can't see myself rewarding this kind of behavior at all with a purchase. How deflating.
They can do a few things:
- Nothing.
- Allow people who pay the $50 upgrade fee to keep the game, regardless of PS+ subscription.
- Drop the upgrade fee to $30, keep the PS+ edition restriction.
- Drop the upgrade fee to $40 and let people keep the game after PS+ lapses.
I wonder if their concern is people get a one-week PS+ voucher, buy the game for a reduced price, and then that PS+ incentive is a wash... but they've allowed for countless PS+ sales over the years and that kind of scenario never stopped them.
I normally fall on the side of buyer beware or don't like/don't buy, but in this case ownership of Plus content is already a confusing thing to a lot of people, as is their store online, and this would result in more harm than good by opening the flood gates on this sort of PS+-tied purchase. If they really want to lure people to a full purchase with a discount, there are more straightforward ways to do it.
Hopefully they'll fix it before then. It just seems like they wanted people to get the full game rather than the Plus edition + Upgrade.
Imagine PS+ adding Driveclub, proper, as an instant game collection title a year down the line.
How bad would you feel if you dropped $50 for the PS+ edition at that point?
I'm a big Driveclub, PS+, and Evolution fan, but you have to admit this is a rough decision to sit with.
Eh I think the main problem is, they don't want to update/modify their current system. They want to treat the PS+ version as a full game and are considering the $50 an upgrade and under the current setup, there is no way to keep a PS+ free offering when your membership expires.
It also might not be as easy as just converting the PS+ version as a demo when you consider the game itself and its social interactive features.
The only option Sony can do (outside of revamping the whole PS+ system) under your choices would be 1.nothing or 3.drop the price to $30 and keep the restriction (which won't subdue the backlash, imo)
I totally agree $50 for an addon is an asinine price and I won't be buying it. I might not even buy the full version if I don't like the plus edition. That being said I don't see why they should take it away some people might want it knowing full well they are keeping plus. The best case scenario is they lower the price to $30 and keep it tied or give the full version for $50. Just trying to see if its the price or the tactics that are pissing people off. I think its the price personally.
At 50 dollars I'm still not sure I'd buy it, it depends on how much I enjoy the demo and also what other purchases I need/want to make at the time (it may just not be on my priority list). But I certainly wouldn't make sure not to buy it (as they are doing it now, I refuse to buy any version of it and honestly hope it bites them in the butt).
If it was a miscommunication (and I'm still hoping for this and willing to give them a benefit of a doubt), I'd totally forgive them and be relieved and happy that I just read it wrong. If it was them 180'ing, well, I'm not going to thank them and I might keep a closer eye on them in case they try it again (and if this is a random blip and they didn't try such BS again then I'd forgive them fully) but I would at least consider buying the game in the meantime. But if it wasn't a miscommunication it would have me at least being more wary of them for a little bit. So, yeah it would lose some goodwill. But, they've been doing good and I admit I am biased PS so I'd still be willing to give them a chance before I right them off as getting arrogant again.
That's a little different. MS had plenty of uproar before they announced the policies from the rumors. THey had plenty of time to listen to the gamers. They didn't and tried their policies anyways. They didn't listen, they were forced to 180 by the point they did a 180. In this case Sony is just now getting the uproar as people just learned of this so they still have time to actually listen. If Sony persists on doing this and then their sales for DriveClub fails miserabley and then they 180, that's equivelant and I'd agree they didn't listen. As is, if this wasn't a miscommunication (in which point it's completely forgiveable) Sony still did try to pull it off but at least listened and backed off. That would deserve at least a little less trust for a while until they proved they really listened and won't try it again. But it wouldn't deserve as much of a reaction as MS got (if Sony didn't miscommunicate and if Sony listens).
In fact, MS has show that even after they 180'd they didn't listen. They never admitted they were wrong, they kept blaming us for not seeing their vision and they pretty much acted like how they felt, that they were only doing this cause they had to. Not because they thought the fans might have a point or that they cared the fans were upset. They only cared cause they were going to have a failure otherwise. Have they yet once truly said sorry rather than, "Sorry you didn't understand what we were trying to do."? Actions speak louder than words and MS's actions have shown they didn't listen, they just knew they had to 180 or else have a failure.
Yes. If they can't create a separate full-version with $10 Plus discount (technically they can), then take the PS+-tied upgrade away. It causes more issues than its worth for $10 an opens a big can of worms. Put it on sale later on like every other digital title.
can you point out specific examples of this double standard in individual posters? Kind of pointless to just call out a nebulous random set of GAFers
Banning used games is way worse than this.
I really struggle to understand how it can be anything other than 2. Part of me still think this has to be some record in miscommunication, because i don't understand what makes this game different from any other game you buy with a discound as a ps+ member. It's bizarre. What is it they hope to gain? Other than a couple of hundred people reluctantly staying ps+ members sometime down the line because they don't want to lose access to the copy of driveclub they spent 50 euro on... I really don't get it.
And this was supposed to be a game delivering shitloads of goodwill to sony and their ps+ service. Would probably have been better if they never did the ps+ thing at all and just sold it as a regular game from the getgo.
von Stroheim
Member
This whole thing has the look of an EBAY scammer. You know, getting around the rules by selling an item for 1 cent and charging $499 for shipping..... ah, the good old days!
Anyway, Sony needs to get involved and force the jerks into not acting like jerks.
Anyway, Sony needs to get involved and force the jerks into not acting like jerks.
Chaplain
Member
Do you remember this?
MS only reversed the above list after multiple weeks of pressure from the gaming community. They wouldn't fess up, continued to get caught for their double-talk (like X1 being more powerful than PS 4), and even started attacking the gaming community for calling them out. This lasted almost until the end of last year.
Sony, since Feb 2013, has been upfront on everything and listened to the gaming community. Very few problems have come from their side so far. This being one of the first problems.
At least there is still a choice involved in this..you can still buy the full retail version. I would have been perfectly happy if MS kept their plans for digital titles only or gave people the choice if they wanted to tie their disc to the account in exchange for the shared family plan they were trying to push among other benefits but they made it an either/or.
Neuromancer
Member
Go ahead and laugh because what MS tried to do is approximately one million times worse than this.
I could literally drive down the road and rent Driveclub from a redbox for like five bucks. Or buy used for cheap. Or borrow a friend's copy. Yeah...it's not quite the same.
Uno Venova
Banned
The 'content' is the full game, which you used to be able to keep after paying for, and they're trying to change that.
People are still pretty upset at the positive reactions Sony got a year ago.
If you buy DLC for any of your PS+ games you will lose access to that DLC if your sub expires (because the root game is no longer playable). So Sony have already been blocking you from accessing paid content for a couple of years. This is just a particularly large piece of DLC, but I expect it is possible for some people out there to already have >$50 of content spent on DLC across several PS+ games! all of which will be rendered useless if they let their sub lapse.
This problem seems to be because technically this is behaving like DLC. To avoid that, I think they should remove the 'upgrade' and let you just buy the full game with a PS+ discount, like many other games offer.
I think we already had confirmation that saves would move across just fine.
I'm sort of torn. On one hand, If the price was right ($30-$40) I don't see this as a problem. Basically, it's a rental service that does not require you to return the game. But then on the other hand I don't want this to replace the IGC. I can see why this is affecting people especially when Rushy straight edited his post, which is slimy as hell but I also see this as an opportunity to attack Sony.
Fanboys are looking for any reason for Sony to screw up just to pounce. Microsoft has been screwing their customers for over 10 years and no one said a word. They haven't provided any meaningful value in almost 10 years then had the audacity to raise the price without any justification but yet this, out of all things, is being blown out of proportion. It just looks funny to me that this by some people is considered DRM and twitter mobs starting to form and the like. I'm all for being upset over the way this was handled, I just don't think the "customer's" response was warranted
Fanboys are looking for any reason for Sony to screw up just to pounce. Microsoft has been screwing their customers for over 10 years and no one said a word. They haven't provided any meaningful value in almost 10 years then had the audacity to raise the price without any justification but yet this, out of all things, is being blown out of proportion. It just looks funny to me that this by some people is considered DRM and twitter mobs starting to form and the like. I'm all for being upset over the way this was handled, I just don't think the "customer's" response was warranted
You were saying?
The barebones definition of DLC Is literally anything you download via the internet . Balance patch? DLC. Expansion pack? DLC. PS +'s policy states that you won't be able to access DLC for a IGC game you downloaded once your sub lapses and the only way to get access is to renew your sub.
The problem seems to stem from Sony treating DC PS Plus edition as a separate game/entity as the normal retail version and the "full upgrade" counts as "extra DLC."
If they wanted to offer piecemeal, the 11 tracks/10 cars should've been free for everyone and they would've avoided this bad press over something this idiotic.
The problem seems to stem from Sony treating DC PS Plus edition as a separate game/entity as the normal retail version and the "full upgrade" counts as "extra DLC."
If they wanted to offer piecemeal, the 11 tracks/10 cars should've been free for everyone and they would've avoided this bad press over something this idiotic.
Family Fry
Member
Neuromancer
Member
Good thing that game has an offline single player career mode then.
How shady of them to spend millions of dollars on a game then spend more acter a long delay and try and make money their investment. Im not sure how I feel about the deal but I could understand them wanting to prevent people from activating a free 7 day or 14 day ps+ sub ylto get the diwcount then stop the sub. I would rather a system like this in placr then driveclub not make enough money with the possibilty of lay offs at evolution studios.
Are you really playing it or just taking a picture? Will you really play a mediocre driving games when in 5 years you will have 2160p Oculus ones?
Hamster Plugin
Member
If the PS+ Edition savegames are compatible with the full game, they should just axe the upgrade thing and have the full game available on PSN download - price is $50 if you're Plus, $60 if you're not Plus.
Oh, well I agree that it's not exactly super straightforward, but it's also clearly stated what happens if you go the PS+ route.
I'm not quite sure what you mean by "lure" by what would an acceptable deal be then? You can get the full game via the PS+ version for $50 instead of $60 day 1 and that's it?
vpance
Member
I didn't say others shouldn't be free to criticize, just that I wouldn't, in most cases.
I'm trying to point out that what something is worth may not be clear until you step back to see it, and that there may be a market for this strategy. At $50 it might not fly off the digital shelves but as a whole I don't see the idea as something threatening. I'd jump in at $40. At $50 I'm not seeing it making waves either way.
krypt0nian
Banned
Exactly my feelings, and I feel that's what they'll end of doing.
deranged_666
Member
If they end up reversing this policy, no harm done, and yes, I would reverse my stance and buy it. This situation is kind of a unique one, because it can be very easily reversed, rather than being programmed into the core game itself. I'm sure the game itself is going to be as remarkable as we were always lead to believe, it's just this kind of greed and slightly deceptive purchasing options are bad news bears for the future of entertainment content. If Sony/Evolution can get away with it, everyone else will follow suit.