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Buy $50 Driveclub PS+ upgrade, lose access if your PS+ sub lapses
- Thread starter alr1ght
- Start date
I'm not going to read through 40 pages of this but I truly don't see the problem with the pricing. If the issue is with the loss of content not being stated up front then I agree on that end, and hopefully it is pretty clear when purchasing the upgrade that access to the discounted version is tied to your PS+ account being active. As far as I'm concerned, if this is stated clearly, SONY shouldn't reverse course on this at all (perhaps offer it at a discounted price maybe, 10 bucks off isn't quite an enticing "lease not own" price).
If they planned to fuck you over, they wouldn't try to inform you 5 months in advance. Putting up a video like that and "hoping" enough people won't notice is so naive that it's unlikely. Gaf has raised hell for much smaller issues and they know it. We can agree that it was a bad move, but is it with malicious intent? That's debatable. Though I disagree with you, feeling that way is your prerogative. As a customer it is your right to accuse them when you honestly feel wronged. As a seller it behooves them to defend themselves and regain your trust. What they do next will help us gauge their motive. Until then, I'd like to presume innocence. But that's just my way of looking at the world
I honestly think the issue has nothing to do with it not being clear and to do with the fact they advertised that if you had PS+ you could get it with a discount. Giving us a discount that is actually worse than just buying the game is insulting and sets a bad precedent. One of the perks of PS+ was to be able to buy games with a PS+ discount. This is moving this away from that. And no, it's not really DLC. DLC would be adding on to the game, not completing a partial game.
Basically, I'm not going to be happy with it and I will vote with my money unless the upgrade is a true discount and you actually get to buy the game (meaning no having a PS+ requirement).
If they planned to fuck you over, they wouldn't try to inform you 5 months in advance. Putting up a video like that and "hoping" enough people won't notice is so naive that it's unlikely. Gaf has raised hell for much smaller issues and they know it. We can agree that it was a bad move, but is it with malicious intent? That's debatable. Though I disagree with you, feeling that way is your prerogative. As a customer it is your right to accuse them when you honestly feel wronged. As a seller it behooves them to defend themselves and regain your trust. What they do next will help us gauge their motive. Until then, I'd like to presume innocence. But that's just my way of looking at the world
What? Yeah they would. They would tell you what an awesome product you're getting, what a great deal, and how amazing it is just being with you.
In order for them to be able to fuck you over they have to at least take those steps. Don't for a second think any of this has anything to do with something other than fucking you. What's the other reason? The great bargain? Really? They want to keep testing shit, and it's getting annoying having to get up in arms over companies who should be fighting to gain us, not both shooting us and asking who's gun hurt more.
LookAtMeGo
Member
Reminds me of when I got banned from PSN for my username and lost all of my PSN purchases. So bloody frustrating.
I think ps+ is a great value but losing any purchases you made when a sub expires is complete bullshit. This is unacceptable.
I think ps+ is a great value but losing any purchases you made when a sub expires is complete bullshit. This is unacceptable.
breakfuss
Member
If they planned to fuck you over, they wouldn't try to inform you 5 months in advance. Putting up a video like that and "hoping" enough people won't notice is so naive that it's unlikely. Gaf has raised hell for much smaller issues and they know it. We can agree that it was a bad move, but is it with malicious intent? That's debatable. Though I disagree with you, feeling that way is your prerogative. As a customer it is your right to accuse them when you honestly feel wronged. As a seller it behooves them to defend themselves and regain your trust. What they do next will help us gauge their motive. Until then, I'd like to presume innocence. But that's just my way of looking at the world
Bingo. I said the same this morning. I think we all can agree this pricing scheme is loony, but beyond that I'll wait before I deem it "anti-consumer". Then again I also didn't believe MS was trying to pull a quick one with the X1.
Erm... I'm not comfortable with the direction this conversation is taking. You are angry. And you have your reasons. I get it. We are on the same side, voicing our criticism together, but from different viewpoints. I don't want to add fuel to this fire. Let's agree to disagree
Laughing Banana
Weeping Pickle
...I must say, "will you still be playing it 2 years down the line" is probably one of the funniest/saddest excuse yet to handwave this whole issue.
It's mind-boggling that anyone can actually possibly conjure up such a reason.
It's mind-boggling that anyone can actually possibly conjure up such a reason.
Hero_of_the_Day
Member
I am literally typing this up in my game room surrounded by hundreds of NES, SNES, N64, GameBoy, Genesis, Sega CD, Master System, PSX, and Dreamcast games.
So, I agree.
Haha! And I defended penello when a majority of gaf decided to take a dump on his intentions. You and I are what some people are quick to brand as corporate apologists. Feels good, no?
0ptimusPayne
Member
always wondered what Sony would do IF they released a day 1 game as a PS+ freebie along side the retail copy. Looks like you're better off sticking with the PS+ half game, or buying it full retail. Atleast we have choices honestly...
Looks like we need an update for reasons why people are defending this:
"you can still buy the full game at $60, this is just an option"
"Plus is fantastic anyway, why would you stop your subscription?"
"people just want a $10 discount for the full game that's why they are upset"
"will you really play the game two years down the road anyway?"
"this just applies to this game, to think it will become a new practice is paranoia"
Did I miss any other good ones? I've been a way for most of the day.
"you can still buy the full game at $60, this is just an option"
"Plus is fantastic anyway, why would you stop your subscription?"
"people just want a $10 discount for the full game that's why they are upset"
"will you really play the game two years down the road anyway?"
"this just applies to this game, to think it will become a new practice is paranoia"
Did I miss any other good ones? I've been a way for most of the day.
That's kind of crazy. I didn't even realize Sony had this system in place with DLC. Methinks it is time for Sony to change how they allow people to access purchased content.
If they'd planned to fuck over consumers they wouldn't have told you exactly what happened in the video the other day and in a blog post back in August.
Good luck finding a way to access content to a game that's locked out until you re-sub.
93xfan
Banned
On principle I agree, however due to the online nature of the game, I'm more concerned about the price of the upgrade. Never thought it would be over $40
Those waters seemed too turbulent for me to handle. Looks like you want to carry the torch. Good luck!
Agreed
Nealand Liquor
Member
If they planned to fuck you over, they wouldn't try to inform you 5 months in advance. Putting up a video like that and "hoping" enough people won't notice is so naive that it's unlikely. Gaf has raised hell for much smaller issues and they know it. We can agree that it was a bad move, but is it with malicious intent? That's debatable. Though I disagree with you, feeling that way is your prerogative. As a customer it is your right to accuse them when you honestly feel wronged. As a seller it behooves them to defend themselves and regain your trust. What they do next will help us gauge their motive. Until then, I'd like to presume innocence. But that's just my way of looking at the world
If memory serves me right, when asked if you keep the content after your ps+ sub expires Chris Brown (I believe it was) confirmed this. Apparently this was incorrect and his answer was quickly edited to state you have access to the full version as long as you have an active subscription. The manner in which the news was released gives the impression Sony had to let it be known due to the previous error. In my eyes that is different than giving an impromptu statement revealing the Driveclub ps+ full version paywall.
enanogrande
Member
I think it's a very reasonable restriction actually - unless they were to give you access to the base game, how would you even be able to access the DLC? Also, they don't really bar you from accessing the DLC - if you buy the base game on disc/digital after you PS+ sub expires, the DLC is there for you to use.
Agent X
Member
It's a good thing they did tell us 5 months in advance, then. If they had waited until just a few days/weeks prior to release, then there'd be significantly more complaints. They may have chosen to disclose this information early for one or more of the following reasons:
1. "Testing the waters"--seeing how consumers would react, and if the reaction was strongly negative (as it seems to be now), then they could dial it back and hope people will praise them as being "receptive to their customers' valuable feedback".
2. Compliance with a consumer-oriented law in some state or country where they are required to publicly reveal this type of information at this early stage.
I still think it was wrong of them to try to revise older Internet postings to pretend that they never promised anything different (specifically, that purchasers would own the full game that's not tethered to their PS+ subscriptions). I don't like the notion of them changing their offer in the first place, but they could have been more open and honest about the whole thing. Editing old statements on the Internet reeks of a "cover-up" scheme, and puts the company's honesty into question.
Man, this is bullshit. I mean wtf, Sony? Seems like they ALWAYS find a way to fuck up. Seriously, every time they get the ball rolling they have to be fucking Sony and trip over their own feet. I mean, how could anyone think this would be a good idea?
I don't mind the free edition having a bit less content, at least you can get the Platinum trophy still. But if I pay for something with or without a Plus sub, I fucking paid for it. Treat me like I paid for it damn it..
I don't mind the free edition having a bit less content, at least you can get the Platinum trophy still. But if I pay for something with or without a Plus sub, I fucking paid for it. Treat me like I paid for it damn it..
vpance
Member
I'm saying it's likely people won't be misled. It does Sony no benefit sales wise to obfuscate so I'm sure they'll make it clear enough before release. Ok, let's say people were actually tricked and Sony made no effort to distinguish the difference between the DLC and regular version. They'd be pissed! And it's highly likely they'll never buy into anything like this again. That kind of thing would never become the norm which is what I'm getting at. It's not good business and the consumer would figure it out fast.
I don't think it's our job to protect others from being able to spend X amount of money on any game. People spend thousands of dollars on shitty F2P or MMO games that we'd all laugh and point our fingers at and we're not doing anything to stop that from happening. I traded in games for $10 that I spent $60 on. I spent $50 and I don't even own the game anymore, and no one informed me beforehand. And there's many others out there who've done the same. You say you want to protect people from bad deals but it doesn't make sense when you think about it across the board and into everything else we spend our money on day to day. Give people options (and some credit of intelligence) and they will actually figure it out. I'm addressing this towards people who don't even want to see this DLC version available at all in any form at any price.
Let's see how this DLC is officially explained. Market forces will see what flies and what doesn't so I'm not worried of any scary tipping point. If people are tricked continuously and deliberately by this "scheme" Sony would eventually lose all their customers, go bankrupt and everyone will move to Xbox or Nintendo. If $50 DLC PS+ gets so popular it becomes the only option to buy games then somehow the collective market must have voted for this with their dollars. These aren't realistic scenarios but they seem to be what people think will happen.
The offer wasn't changed. This was explicitly mentioned before in August. What has changed is that the individuals who made contradictory statements are now falling in line with the original offer. It still doesn't justify a stealth edit. Who knows what the reasons were. Here's some speculation:
- February - Rushy learnt the error in his original comment and decides to correct all of them
- But he couldn't talk about it back then because Sony had a gag order on the whole project until it was re-revealed. So his statement was corrected, but he couldn't notify anyone. It didn't seem like a big deal because Sony was planning to make a video focused on it anyway. They obviously had no idea there was going to be a backlash back then.
- Video is released as final confirmation of how they planned to implement it. Backlash begins. People find out the edits. All hell breaks loose. They are clueless and want to make sure they do this right. So they've gone completely silent till there is a consensus on next steps.
As I said, this is mere speculation in his defense. I'm not sure what the truth is. It is up to them to explain and apologize for this fiasco. My point is, it all seems horribly devious, but the actual explanation, like most times in real life, could be rather boring.
wapplew
Member
This make me think about MMO like Wow, FF14, we buy the main game plus all the expansion, if you monthly sub lapse, we lost access too,
same goes for Titanfall or PvZ:GF, you lost access of the game if your gold run out.
Just because Driveclub have offline mode, we view the ownership with different standard.
BlackBuzzard
Banned
More then likely planning an official response.
The lesson I learned from reading this thread: A $10 discount isn't deep enough to validate putting retail games behind a pay wall.
Instant Game Collection proves that there is a retail-game-price (in this case $0) that people are willing to settle on in order to stay behind the pay wall (maybe it's free, maybe it's more).
Instant Game Collection proves that there is a retail-game-price (in this case $0) that people are willing to settle on in order to stay behind the pay wall (maybe it's free, maybe it's more).
CambriaRising
Member
Its a personal thing, as usual. I have bought DLC for games I got through PS+. I am fully aware that the DLC will become unusable if I ever unsub unless I buy the game. This case is egregious to a person like me, mostly because its $50 tied up in this purchase, not $5-$15 in DLC.
This is pretty shitty, even thought I don't have any plans to end my PS+ membership anytime soon. If we're able to upgrade our PS+ Free Version to this Faux Full Version for $50, will we be able to upgrade our Faux-upgraded PS+ Free Version to the Real Full Version for $10 or would we have to purchase the entire game to be able to play it?
lemmykoopa
Junior Member
Any word on if it will be possible to look up times and race other players ghosts time trial if you don't have ps plus?
vpance
Member
It just goes to show that the line between what is acceptable and what isn't is subjective and can actually be pretty stupid. Just let people figure it out for themselves.
Everyone has their price
Yes, some people out there will go for the $10 discount. I think I'll get the PS+ version and download maybe $30 worth of DLC. I'm not a huge racing game fan anymore anyways, I don't need to experience every car and track, but I'd still like to play at launch. Previously customers like me would have to wait a while to pick it up used at that price. So Sony got my business and avoided a used game sale.
Agent X
Member
Perhaps...but the bottom line is that the offer was changed. They originally promised one thing, and several months later changed it to something else. Whether the declaration of the original offer was done entirely in error is moot.
Agreed, and that's one of the big problems here. If Sony came straight out and said, "We originally planned to do it this way, but for (fill in the blank) reason(s) we had to change our offer", then I don't think the backlash should have been as severe. There would still be some amount of disappointment that the new offer isn't anywhere near as good as the old one, but at least we could appreciate the honest approach. The stealth edits with no subsequent explanation are compounding an already negative situation, and are the reasons why their honesty is now thrown into doubt.
The longer they take the more it'll seem like their pulling a 180 if the all this turns out to be false.
$60 > $50
It's kind of absurd.
I'm primarily an Xbox player. Have had gold the entire time for years. Even I wouldn't take the $10 in savings.
PS+ is awesome psychologically. Some players will be compelled to keep their sub because they can't "afford" to let it lapse. Better to keep paying a little more so you don't lose a whole lot.
It's kind of absurd.
I'm primarily an Xbox player. Have had gold the entire time for years. Even I wouldn't take the $10 in savings.
PS+ is awesome psychologically. Some players will be compelled to keep their sub because they can't "afford" to let it lapse. Better to keep paying a little more so you don't lose a whole lot.
I know right. I got NES,SNES,N64,Gamecube,Master System,Genesis,Saturn,Dreamcast,PS1,PS2,PS4,Xbox,360. And slew of handhelds of Gameboy and a Game gear.
I like to play old video games and collect them from Yardsales and ebay. To say you wont be playing it in 2 years in an insult.
Valid points.
Basically, "Markets are self-correcting, no need to interfere".
I think we've both said what needs to be said. You think market forces should determine the fate of all business decisions. I believe consumer and community feedback can help correct a decision even before market forces come into play, to reduce the damage done on both sides.
Nealand Liquor
Member
Or better yet if you are really bothered by the precedent this "deal" is setting you don't buy anything, and you especially don't give Sony $10 more than you traditionally had to.
I think this is the critical point. Spending $2 on a piece of DLC, you don't really mind if it is tied to your OS+ game subscription (especially as you already had a full game too). Even though you might eventually end up with >$50 of DLC and therefore your absolute exposure is the same, it creeps up on you so you don't notice.
That big one-time $50 purchase really brings it into sharp relief.
It's not DLC people. It's an upgrade.
If you bought DLC for a free game like BF3 on PS3 then gave up your plus sub you could go out and buy a used copy of BF3 for a few $ and have access to your DLC again.
This "offer" let's you upgrade to the full retail game. Not DLC. If you let your sub lapse you lose the full game. If you then go out and buy the retail game, your purchased upgrade doesn't add anything and is redundant.
Of course if the retail game is only $15 and also comes with the same 11 tracks etc and you have to pay $40 or so for DLC packs then there's no issue. However the wording of the press release makes this very unlikely.
Comparing the upgrade to existing DLC is apples to oranges.
If you bought DLC for a free game like BF3 on PS3 then gave up your plus sub you could go out and buy a used copy of BF3 for a few $ and have access to your DLC again.
This "offer" let's you upgrade to the full retail game. Not DLC. If you let your sub lapse you lose the full game. If you then go out and buy the retail game, your purchased upgrade doesn't add anything and is redundant.
Of course if the retail game is only $15 and also comes with the same 11 tracks etc and you have to pay $40 or so for DLC packs then there's no issue. However the wording of the press release makes this very unlikely.
Comparing the upgrade to existing DLC is apples to oranges.
PlayStationEU: UPDATE> If you have #DRIVECLUB PS+ Ed & upgrade, we'll ensure you keep full game access even if your PS Plus runs out http://t.co/RIjDw6Mzzw
https://twitter.com/playstationeu/status/464729448802041856
https://twitter.com/playstationeu/status/464729448802041856
EL CUCO
Member
New thread time!
krimsoncharge
Member
update from PS blog:
Paul Rustchynsky ‏@Rushy33 1m
UPDATE> If you have #DRIVECLUB PS+ Ed & upgrade, we'll ensure you keep full game access even if your PS Plus runs out http://bit.ly/1kWAzqi
new thread needed?
Paul Rustchynsky ‏@Rushy33 1m
UPDATE> If you have #DRIVECLUB PS+ Ed & upgrade, we'll ensure you keep full game access even if your PS Plus runs out http://bit.ly/1kWAzqi
new thread needed?
giancarlo123x
Banned
I guess today apples are oranges.