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Cherno reacts on Dirt 5 running on XSX ''What can anyone say about this''

Keihart

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welp, the video it's very far from being a hot take and the dude it's pretty self-aware of the reactions too.
 

itsjustJEFF

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I'm a software developer, I am a bit aware of the salaries in the gaming industry. Too much work, very long hours and an unstable position for not enough money. Not for me.

Nevertheless, I've seen some of the videos and he has discussed his career path, he's actually quite a smart cookie given that he joined EA to be part of the engine development group, that's quite an achievement for barely an undergraduate.

I mean, the guy is quite passionate, and about his statement of "all of those teraflops", I don't know how old you are, but gaming companies have sometimes boasted of this spec or that feature that doesn't actually pan out, you have to wait to see the results when actually working on it.

The guy is passionate, has experience and is very qualified to comment, he is not even mean about it. I'm kind of astonished at how fragile, or how important, this console war is to people that some mild criticism reaches this level of accusations and conspiracy theories...over a game that looks quite shitty.

Put down your sword warrior, you need not fight this battle.
It's crazy man. I've been on these forums on and off through the years. Lurked around for a long time. I honestly need a break from forums like this from time to time. It's just too much. The amount of crazy I find in this forums is alarming :messenger_tears_of_joy: I love video games. I'll probably never give up video games... but I sometimes really hate the video game community.
 

oagboghi2

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What? We can't read you. Learn the difference between a game being the problem versus the device being the problem. Your ignorance knows no bounds. But, but, but 3rdPersonStation.
Because 3rd person games are bad now. 🙄

Are xbox owners going to disown 3rd person games now?

It's to bad he could of used the video to show the effect of a third party being spread to thin 8 or so platforms. Being part of EA that should be up his alley. Instead it was some shots at code masters for making a cross generation game not look next generation enough for hIm. People were wondering why no new game play for demo series x out in the wild this video is why. Developers open themselves up to cheap shots to gain followers.
These are just nonsense excuses now.



You're asking him to making pretty large assumptions. Why should he do that, when he can just focus on the video in front of him
 
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The game may not look the best but I don't think it's xbox's fault.

At the end of the day, it's a racing game and it does not need to look the best when the game is paused...
 
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Shaukdotdj

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It's a months old preview build of a game in a video where the creator of said video admitted publicly his capture card messed up and caused tearing, artifacts and only 30fps output.

Cherno did absolutely zero research and instead rushed to title his video "worse than a mobile game" - while disingenuously neglecting to mention it's current gen and continually referencing Series X and Halo despite it literally coming to every platform imaginable.

He's not a Sony fanboy at all, but it's clear he's playing to the crowd for clicks.
Did you miss the part where he was provided with a corrected link literally 2 seconds after that disclaimer was read? Clearly.
 

Codeblew

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Does anybody even have a good argument against what he said? I am a developer myself (not VG industry) and nothing he said seems wrong to me. This game will be ASS on PS5 as well. The problem is, this is the XBSX premier launch title.
 
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ruvikx

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Who is this guy and why should I care about what he thinks about a cross generation game that has been made to run at a mind boggling 120fps on a console on day 1?


Woah when did this happen? When did Dirt 5 become the premier launch title for the Series X?
"Cherno" aka a random unknown guy with 13k subscribers yesterday & now over 14k... thanks to some hungry console warriors.

That's abut it really.
 

AeneaGames

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He's not being honest. He thinks this is a next gen game when it's not. He's so fucking stupid he couldn't even be bothered to check if the game was a next gen game or not. He literally scrolls down and misses the text that it is also coming out on last gen consoles.

And the footage linked to him is from a level that looks awful. He's clearly being trolled and he's falling for it like your grandma falls for political ads.
In one post you defend the devs of this game and I agree with that, in the next you're shitting on Cherno. I'm sorry but that isn't fair either. It is coming out on next gen consoles, MS slapped a optimised for Series X sticker on it so what he's saying is fair.

He asked for XSX footage and he got this, he did check if it was a recent video and says he does not keep up with all the news surrounding the new consoles. To react like this towards him is silly, he's probably the most impartial person out there and actually seems to know his stuff.
Send him a better vid of Dirt 5 or another game.

To me tho the game looks good, not amazing but good. I love the ice track footage a lot and I will buy this when it comes out and forget about all the silly stuff people bickered over and enjoy the heck out of it
 

Pantz

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Feels like I'm the only one who thinks this game looks good. The environments around the tracks, look cool and expansive. I get the low quality textures and stuff but I'm looking at the overall picture of the game. It has a lot of unique stuff going on that you won't find in some other racers.
 

MrFunSocks

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Feels like I'm the only one who thinks this game looks good. The environments around the tracks, look cool and expansive. I get the low quality textures and stuff but I'm looking at the overall picture of the game. It has a lot of unique stuff going on that you won't find in some other racers.
Looks fine to me too. I'm not buying it, but graphically it looks like a cross gen game that runs at 60fps and 120fps. Not sure what people were expecting - Forza Motorsport 7 type graphics at 120hz?

I have a feelilng that so, so many people are going to have meltdowns this generation and complain about graphics and framerates in the next gen games. People have let their expectations get waaaaaaaaaaaaay out of check thanks to things like all the Cerny Super SSD bullshit.
 
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FranXico

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haha gotcha.

GAF discredits Digital Foundry and their opinions but hot damn, this .....Cherno...... guy really knows his stuff!
Oh, now I get it! The argument of authority (how dare anyone question Richard Leadbetter) now extends to number of subscribers!

How cares that unlike the guru of pixel counting, this "nobody" actually worked on the Frostbite engine?

Going by this twisted logic, PewDiePie is the biggest expert of anything in the world. No education or experience required.
 

AeneaGames

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Better video


It just works- Jeff



Cherno is a dev? More like a asshole who loves creating videos to bait fanboys. What games he worked on? Can someone tell me why Era and Gaf are so fan of this guy? Looks like its very easy to get clicks from Gaf and Era.
EA's Frostbite engine and Need for Speed. What had Jeff Grubb worked on?

Cherno is fair and unbiased and knows his stuff. Granted the title is a bit click-baity and I think it looks better than a mobile game but it's his opinion tho, not sure why that is a bad thing.

It's people like Grubb and some others like him who come across as assholes, but they probably have to otherwise they don't get a free XSX and without it they can make less content and thus get less income. Cherno does not have a stake in any of the consoles, he just likes to make these videos.

(tho to be absolutely honest I am starting to think there is a money reason why he is making these now, the first few were for fun, then he noticed the extra income bit generated.....)
 
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AeneaGames

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He's a guy who posted some positive impressions about Sony software over a series of videos. Now he's quite popular here. Not sure why. Can you figure it out? :)
Didn't know MS Flight Sim is a Sony game! He was gushing over that one!

Funny thing is tho that you and others blame him for saying good things about Sony games more while the obvious reason is completely missed...

The lack of new game footage running on the XSX...

If you guys don't scare him off it he will continue making these and am positive there will be XSX games he will say positive things about...

Send him footage of a good looking cross gen or next gen game running on the XSX and you will see
 
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Digity

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EA's Frostbite engine and Need for Speed. What had Jeff Grubb worked on?

Cherno is fair and unbiased and knows his stuff. Granted the title is a bit click-baity and I think it looks better than a mobile game but it's his opinion tho, not sure why that is a bad thing.

It's people like Grubb and some others like him who come across as assholes, but they probably have to otherwise they don't get a free XSX and without it they can make less content and thus get less income. Cherno does not have a stake in any of the consoles, he just likes to make these videos.

(tho to be absolutely honest I am starting to think there is a money reason why he is making these now, the first few were for fun, then he noticed the extra income bit generated.....)
Seems like a smart thing to do, these videos are certainly easy to put together.
 

kuncol02

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To be fair Bo, part of the reason Driveclub looked so good because it was locked at 30FPS and they were targeting one device. But still I think Sony were very patient with them and let them focus on getting the visual quality spot on.

It's a shame it doesn't have an unlocked framerate mode as Driveclub on PS5 back compat with 60fps would be immense

Same team did Motorstorm as well and those games were audio-visual masterpieces. It's. shame Sony didn't keep them on to focus on things like Wipeout and GT spin-offs.
There is no magic in targeting single device. Driveclub pushes 1/16 of Dirt 5 pixels. To run Driveclub in 120fps 4k you would need almost 20tflop machine and Driveclub in daylight can look IMHO even worse than Dirt looks.
 
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Black_Stride

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that particular video/track looks bad. ive seen the game several times over the past few months. it looks great.



Fuck dat Cherno
Its a multi plat and it actually does look good, hell i still think OnRush is a good looking title.
He seemingly attributes this to the Xbox being the problem....but that doesnt make sense as its a multiplat and looks like this on every platform?
Why single out the Xbox as being the problem?

He spits his clout a ton but he needs to temper his own hype, he worked on a mobile games engine, and didnt even make it, he was a glorified intern
 

Bojanglez

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There is no magic in targeting single device. Driveclub pushes 1/16 of Dirt 5 pixels. To run Driveclub in 120fps 4k you would need almost 20tflop machine and Driveclub in daylight can look IMHO even worse than Dirt looks.
No magic, but it does potentially allow more optimisation to occur for the engine (depending on economics). But yeah me mentioning 30fps was kind of making your point, comparing a game that targeted 30fps to one that is targeting 60-120fps is somewhat unfair. The fact that they then have to optimise and text for about 10 different configurations just makes it harder
 

Michael Hawk

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Being lukewarm to Demon Souls's or any title is irrelevant, we all know what good graphics are and what bad graphics are. Going out of their way to bash a system when its a engine fault is disingenuous and this is what this video was.
I kinda see your point but I also think you're ignoring the reality that he (the Cherno) can't ignore the elephant in the room which is that the supposed most powerful console in the world has yet to produce a single impressive graphical showpiece.

It's really easy to think he's console warring when in fact, he's just stating what everyone that wasn't sent a Series X to promote is thinking. If the consoles were reversed and the PS5 was supposedly the most powerful console in the world, and yet every game shown had the visual fidelity of Bugsnax (no diss, I actually love the idea behind Snaktooth island), I'm 100% confident that he (the Cherno) would go beyond just commenting on the game and actually talk about how the supposed most powerful console is surprisingly incapable of living up to its claim.

Is the Cherno secretly biased with a Mark Cerny shrine in his bedroom closet? I honestly don't know. But it's unrealistic to expect a guy that looks and talks about games and their respective graphics to ignore the fact that the console running those games has a lot of fucking question marks about its supposedly superior graphical capabilities.
 

Elog

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Chemo is a good guy. Dirt looks poorly.

The problems get accentuated by the fact that we hardly have seen anything visually impressive run on the XSX. It starts to be weird - there must have been serious issues with the development environment/kits. Any other explanation does not make sense by now.
 

FranXico

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I think people should keep in mind that he really felt disappointed by the footage. So much so that he even thinks PS fanboys are trolling him with bad looking games to make him hate Xbox.

He knows that the machine can give better looking games.
 
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RobRSG

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Dirt 5 is a multiplatform game. I really don’t understand what is the point of friction here, aside from Chemo wanting to be in the spotlight.
 

Azurro

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Say that sitting there with a tryhard MGS avatar, just because I have an opinion not falling in line with your console warrior BS.

You probably shouldn't bring things like Occam's Razor up when you don't even know the definition or how to use it in context, btw. And point to where I've defended everything about Series X? I criticized the July show, had constructive criticism on the logistics of Series S (until more information was provided), even questioned Gamepass here and there. I also questioned the WB purchasing rumors (and still do; it's not worth it for anyone unless they get rights to the characters as a long-term gain).

Difference with me from people like you is, I'm actually willing to give MS a chance to show me what they have to offer. I'm not living and breathing on the desire to be hostile or negative to a brand just because it isn't Sony. And if I were such a warrior I would never have posted (nor continue to post) positive things about Sony, PS5, or Nintendo. I literally had pretty much good things to say in Bo_Hazem Bo_Hazem 's recent thread and never once tried downplaying Sony or PS5 in that thread. I may've tried clarifying a few things here and there, but the reality doesn't fit your ill-conceived imagination.

Truth is you're a lame console fanboy and having someone tell that to you straight fires you up to no end. But that's not my problem. The immaturity of your response says it all. You can choose to go on carrying as you were, it won't be much worth seeing anyway.



He's a content creator and it's his responsibility to do research into a subject if he wishes to give an opinion on it. Sorry but I'm not excusing laziness from people who do this sort of stuff; even if it's just a hobby in the spare time, if you wish to discuss things in the most-informed light then doing some cross-referencing and due diligence for clarification beyond the bare minimum should be at least partially expected.

Too many people excusing mediocrity when it comes to games journalistic integrity is why we have so many clickbait, half-assed sources of coverage in the first place. Ask for better, cordially, and maybe you will get it. If some other content creator took a bad, low-resolution, half-framerate video of Demon's Souls Remastered or Miles Morales and used it as a critique against the game unfairly (or even worst, used it as a means to stoke console wars), I'd be just as mad. Probably more upset tbh if it were Demon's because that game legit looks fantastic.

But no, go on and assume I'm doing this for "other reasons". My track record speaks otherwise but go on, pretend that doesn't exist 👍
I'm going to skip most of your defence of yourself because you know you love to dabble in fanboy wars and love to spin up FUD against "rival" consoles and you know it, don't play dumb, you love silly console warring. I honestly couldn't care less about MS or Xbox because they don't produce games I'm interested in, they have a good machine in theoretical specs but that's it, I'm happy to let it be in its own corner and for their fans to enjoy it. I only ever get involved because I see people posting dishonest or stupid takes that frankly bring the level of conversion really low and it's mostly Xbox fans flinging shit because they were "oppressed" for a long time or something stupid like that.

Now with that rant, it's kind of baffling how fragile your ego is, how vulnerable it is to some mild criticism of a game that looks like shit on a console you hold a little too close to your heart, which then you take as criticism against your favourite plastic box, which somehow turns into criticism of yourself. You are spinning narratives of "journalistic integrity" when the only requirement is if he is qualified to comment, which in his case yes he is, as he literally wrote components of graphics engines, He's literally more qualified than anyone at DF to talk about this stuff, and yet you mysteriously don't have a problem with them putting out their opinion.

And really, what kind of "laziness" are you talking about? To do research on how not to hurt the feelings of Xbox fanboys if a game that is on Xbox looks bad? It's a reaction video to a trailer willingly put out there by a publisher to be shown to people. The game looks like shit, what do you expect him to say? He is even being nice about it.
 
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Black_Stride

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Oh, now I get it! The argument of authority (how dare anyone question Richard Leadbetter) now extends to number of subscribers!

How cares that unlike the guru of pixel counting, this "nobody" actually worked on the Frostbite engine?

Going by this twisted logic, PewDiePie is the biggest expert of anything in the world. No education or experience required.
He worked on mobile games (mobile engines) and had access to Frostbite because he worked at a satellite studio owned by EA, a studio they eventually forgot they had, he didnt add anything to Frostbite and wasnt in a high enough position to matter......dont believe his own hype.
 

Bo_Hazem

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Say that sitting there with a tryhard MGS avatar, just because I have an opinion not falling in line with your console warrior BS.

You probably shouldn't bring things like Occam's Razor up when you don't even know the definition or how to use it in context, btw. And point to where I've defended everything about Series X? I criticized the July show, had constructive criticism on the logistics of Series S (until more information was provided), even questioned Gamepass here and there. I also questioned the WB purchasing rumors (and still do; it's not worth it for anyone unless they get rights to the characters as a long-term gain).

Difference with me from people like you is, I'm actually willing to give MS a chance to show me what they have to offer. I'm not living and breathing on the desire to be hostile or negative to a brand just because it isn't Sony. And if I were such a warrior I would never have posted (nor continue to post) positive things about Sony, PS5, or Nintendo. I literally had pretty much good things to say in Bo_Hazem Bo_Hazem 's recent thread and never once tried downplaying Sony or PS5 in that thread. I may've tried clarifying a few things here and there, but the reality doesn't fit your ill-conceived imagination.

Truth is you're a lame console fanboy and having someone tell that to you straight fires you up to no end. But that's not my problem. The immaturity of your response says it all. You can choose to go on carrying as you were, it won't be much worth seeing anyway.



He's a content creator and it's his responsibility to do research into a subject if he wishes to give an opinion on it. Sorry but I'm not excusing laziness from people who do this sort of stuff; even if it's just a hobby in the spare time, if you wish to discuss things in the most-informed light then doing some cross-referencing and due diligence for clarification beyond the bare minimum should be at least partially expected.

Too many people excusing mediocrity when it comes to games journalistic integrity is why we have so many clickbait, half-assed sources of coverage in the first place. Ask for better, cordially, and maybe you will get it. If some other content creator took a bad, low-resolution, half-framerate video of Demon's Souls Remastered or Miles Morales and used it as a critique against the game unfairly (or even worst, used it as a means to stoke console wars), I'd be just as mad. Probably more upset tbh if it were Demon's because that game legit looks fantastic.

But no, go on and assume I'm doing this for "other reasons". My track record speaks otherwise but go on, pretend that doesn't exist 👍
But Cherno is probably the most credible youtuber out there compared to any. He even worked on Need For Speed, so he knows a thing or two on car racing. Also worked on Frostbite engine and has his own engine as well that he releases tutorials about.

But overall, we don't need that much expertise to acknowledge how bad Dirt 5 looks, it's a disgrace to next gen graphics for a AAA game. You may accept that for like AA and indies, but not a well-funded AAA game.
 
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I'm not defending the footage of Dirt 5 he is reacting on, but commenting on the way he chose to convey his reaction.
here's a thing about game devs, they are horrible at playing games, and not even them are as updated in the games catalog as we gamers are, he thinks this is an xbox series X showcase, and didnt even noticed its coming in the current gen, he just doesnt search for gaming news, therefore he doesnt know anything about this game other than its being marketed around XSX, its not his fault.
 
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Black_Stride

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But Cherno is probably the most credible youtuber out there compared to any. He even worked on Need For Speed, so he knows a thing or two on car racing. Also worked on Frostbite engine and has his own engine as well that he releases tutorials about.

But overall, we don't need that much expertise to acknowledge how bad Dirt 5 looks, it's a disgrace to next gen graphics for a AAA game. You may accept that for like AA and indies, but not a well-funded AAA game.
Need for Speed No Limits, a mobile game NOT running on Frostbite with a very very very different handling model to any real racing game....so please.

He didnt add anything to Frostbite, DICE are in charge of Frostbite, he worked at a satellite studio in Australia that EA eventually forgot even existed, he puts alot of clout on his resume but this EA job at this satellite studio was his first job out of University.
He hasnt worked at any other company or been part of any big engines.

I havent heard him say or even claim to be an expert on any sort of rendering technology, which odly is what almost all his videos are about rendering.
 

Bo_Hazem

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Need for Speed No Limits, a mobile game NOT running on Frostbite with a very very very different handling model to any real racing game....so please.

He didnt add anything to Frostbite, DICE are in charge of Frostbite, he worked at a satellite studio in Australia that EA eventually forgot even existed, he puts alot of clout on his resume but this EA job at this satellite studio was his first job out of University.
He hasnt worked at any other company or been part of any big engines.

I havent heard him say or even claim to be an expert on any sort of rendering technology, which odly is what almost all his videos are about rendering.
Even though, a casual guy from the street who has played Dirt on current PS4 Pro/XOX, Forza, GT Sport won't take him long before he pukes from the graphics of this so-called next gen game. It's not rocket science, really. You need to be near-blind to not see how bad it looks.
 
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HeresJohnny

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I kind of get it. I mean, they’re trying to get people to buy expensive new hardware and some of the games definitely aren’t making the case well for it.
 

FranXico

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He worked on mobile games (mobile engines) and had access to Frostbite because he worked at a satellite studio owned by EA, a studio they eventually forgot they had, he didnt add anything to Frostbite and wasnt in a high enough position to matter......dont believe his own hype.
Still much more experienced in game development than the assperts everyone listens to without questioning.
 
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This is one reason why I think MS' focus on 120fps was a mistake.
I think that they just noticed it was happening with many of the games they were showing off, so they decided to use it... Forgetting very few people have 120hz TVs (we just got our 4k HDR sets).
 

Black_Stride

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Even though, a casual guy from the street who has played Dirt on current PS4 Pro/XOX, Forza, GT Sport won't take him long before he pukes from the graphics of this so-called next gen game. It's not rocket science, really. You need to be near-blind to not see how bad it looks.
Im not denying DIRT5 is NOT a nextgen graphical showcase.
Im denying the clout people put on Cherno and him clearly playing into the console war for clicks...I mean its working but its still snakey shit.
Hes musing with pinning Dirt 5 looking bad on the Series X, he knows what hes doing when i says those things, especially when he can see this is a crossgen multiplat.....but there must be something going wrong at Xbox.....you dont see him pandering to you with his comments?


Full disclosure I actually dont think Dirt 5 is butt ugly, but it certainly aint a title I would use to show off a nextgen machine, even the 120fps mode.
 

Black_Stride

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Still much more experienced in game development than the assperts everyone listens to without questioning.
Game development, he was a basically an intern not actually adding much to a mobile game engine?

What expertise does he have in rendering technologies for him to be an expert in talking about how games look?
You could have the most badass CS graduate who easily gets trumped in rendering work by some who finished a PBR workflow course at a community college.
Yeah he probably knows a little something about how to make a mobile game, but he knows very little about AAA game development and rendering.....but as long as he is on the Sony side or bashing the Xbox then hehas all the experience we need.
 
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Bo_Hazem

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Im not denying DIRT5 is NOT a nextgen graphical showcase.
Im denying the clout people put on Cherno and him clearly playing into the console war for clicks...I mean its working but its still snakey shit.
Hes musing with pinning Dirt 5 looking bad on the Series X, he knows what hes doing when i says those things, especially when he can see this is a crossgen multiplat.....but there must be something going wrong at Xbox.....you dont see him pandering to you with his comments?


Full disclosure I actually dont think Dirt 5 is butt ugly, but it certainly aint a title I would use to show off a nextgen machine, even the 120fps mode.
All his comments are 100% facts, just watch even a graphical masterpiece like Horizon Forbidden West and he brought negative stuff there that no one else pointed out. Watch all his videos first before jumping into conclusions, and HFW and Spiderman MM are crossgen as well, and Halo is 1st party crossgen as well. If there is someone to blame it is Xbox Division and them alone.

What you'll say then after he sees Yakuza on XSX? That'll get tortured even further as even at 4K looks like crap. Just deal with it, if Xbox Division are empty-handed don't throw the blame on others.
 
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Relativ9

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There is no magic in targeting single device. Driveclub pushes 1/16 of Dirt 5 pixels. To run Driveclub in 120fps 4k you would need almost 20tflop machine and Driveclub in daylight can look IMHO even worse than Dirt looks.
The video linked was from the 4k PS4 Pro version of the game (dynamic 4k but still) with HDR. Not native 4k 120fps mind you, but I don't think that it's unreasonable to expect that if they did a native 4k port on PS5 they could achieve 60fps at least easily. The point was more that it was a 7 year old game that looked better than a yet to be released game, aesthetically if not technically. And while daylight/sunny races aren't as impressive the extreme weather ones, in my opinion it still looks better than most things released these days (except possibly Forza), but a lot of this is due to art design and going for fantastical vistas with amazing skyboxes and lighting over "normal/realistic" map design.
 

Bo_Hazem

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For those around there, there is a list of plenty of vidoes teaching you about game engines and his own engine while at it. It's funny to take journos work over his, and even journos are shitting on this garbage:

(This is his main channel, as some of his followers complained about console stuff being thrown into the mix so he made the second channel)

 
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Zathalus

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I would have respected his opinion more if it was based on better footage of the game. The IGN video feed is terrible. The devs have reached out to him on Twitter requesting he takes a second look at the game based on better footage, so let's see if he will be up to it.

Before anyone tells me the game is still bad looking, it is still clearly better looking then the IGN feed. Personally when the weather effects kick in, I think it looks pretty good.
 
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