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Come 2to buttocks. i welcom thee

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Skeff

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Jun 2, 2013
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You realise your last point is pure marketing speak and not really a lie. Its like someone from top gear saying a car takes off like a space shuttle, it's not to be taken literally. I think most sensible people knew that from the get go.
The difference of course is top gear don't make the car, it's a big distinction, how would you feel if toyota told you the new yaris took off like a shuttle?
 

Theecliff

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Jun 22, 2013
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Also guys, don't forger cboat misunderstood Halo at E3 for new PoP.
After that, you can doubt he is working at MS.
This makes no sense at all. If he mistook Halo for PoP at E3, how the hell does that disprove that he works at MS? Doesn't it sort of validate that he does work there if he saw the teaser before any one else, regardless of whether he got it mixed up with something else or not?
 

Majanew

Banned
Nov 12, 2010
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Weeelll, that is kind of true, but actually if one is to believe what MS officially states, it was a lie! They state that they can't release at 21 countries because they need to "localize" the Xbox. Which, if they were telling the truth, means that they never could release at these countries, thus they lied.

So either they have (it is obvious that this is the case) supply problems and lied about that, or they lied about the 21 countries.
Only if they knew when they said 21 countries. The reason they gave is a lie, but not when they announced 21 a couple months ago.
 

Raytow

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Mar 10, 2005
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Arcticle about Xbox One being delayed until 2014 in Euro countries.

Greenberg : "Ha, don't believe everything you read"

Hours later, MS confirms the delay in European countries.

:lol
Holy shit is that true? hahahahaha jesus that is low.
 

medze

Member
Nov 5, 2007
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I think saying they have been deceptive rather than saying they lied is a lot more accurate. While not as bad as directly lying, it still doesn't bode well for their credibility.
 

Metfanant

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Jun 23, 2010
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Let me understand, Finalizer.

So you agree with his complaint about Microsoft lying for having optimized the clock speed of the console?

That user's complaint is not "nitpicky". It is just fabricated around something which is so "low" even to be considered a proper complaint.

Even if you, as a producer, as not aiming for the highest specs possible you would be a perfect IDIOT not to optimize the hardware you actually put in YOUR console.

It's more like:
"Hey Bob, so we can raise the clock speed by 4%"
"Stop it! Someone on NeoGaf could be offended by this!"
again, they didnt OPTIMIZE anything...are you sure you're using the word youre actually looking for?...

even if you want to consider that particular "complaint" as nitpicky, you have once again (what is this like 4 times now) ignored THE REST of the complaints i listed...

Are they really lies? not in my opinion. I don't care enough to argue though so lets just agree to disagree.
yes they are lies...

Question: "Why have this DRM?"
Answer: "its not DRM, its awesome, and its a core part of the OS, you cant just flip a switch and remove it"

LIE

Question: "Why is Kinect required"
Answer: "Because its awesome, and the hardware/software is designed to work with Kinect...the console wont function without it"

LIE

Question: "What are you going to do about the PS4's hardware advantage?"
Answer: "Specs dont matter"

LIE

Question: "Where are you launching?"
Answer: "21 different countries, biggest launch ever"

LIE

Question: "Why do we need to be connected to the internet?"
Answer: "because its a core function of the OS, wont work without it"

LIE

Solid response.

I don't see how a clock speed change isn't considered a spec change. It's like not acknowledging the entire overclocking trend in PC gaming.
exactly...
 

EGM1966

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Aug 5, 2011
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What the point of this thread and sudden leaks?

Looks like shady Sony PR.
Why mention 20% drop in performance, if it is nothing to worry about?
Why all the bad news for Xbox all the sudden?
Why brief mention of PS4 and it is 100% ready to launch?

Reddit answer looks totally legit to me.
Amusing. Some thoughts on your questions:

  • Looks like shady Sony PR. - doesn't really IMHO but that's open to opinion I guess
  • Why mention 20% drop in performance, if it is nothing to worry about? - it's mentioned because the time to fix the performance drop will affect release date and according to CBOAT allow Sony a clear gap at market first : clearly important info if true
  • Why all the bad news for Xbox all the sudden? - all of a sudden? C'mon MS has been covered in a liberal coating of bad news for months now and most of it wasn't down to leaks but their own official presentations and press info
  • Why brief mention of PS4 and it is 100% ready to launch? - because that's the crucial coutnerpoint and the core of the thread : Sony is in control and ready to go and MS is scrabbling to get stuff finished, optimized and launch according to plan - again the core point being it looks like Sony is going to have a smoother and arguably better launch than MS which is a bit of a shocker really after last gen.
 

benny_a

extra source of jiggaflops
Apr 25, 2009
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You realise your last point is pure marketing speak and not really a lie. Its like someone from top gear saying a car takes off like a space shuttle, it's not to be taken literally. I think most sensible people knew that from the get go.
So the infinite power of the cloud is marketing and the 40x as powerful as the Xbox 360 with the cloud and 10x as powerful as the Xbox 360 without the cloud is the actual evaluation of the power of the device?
 

ElTorro

I wanted to dominate the living room. Then I took an ESRAM in the knee.
May 15, 2013
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So the infinite power of the cloud is marketing and the 40x as powerful as the Xbox 360 with the cloud and 10x as powerful as the Xbox 360 without the cloud is the actual evaluation of the power of the device?
They where definitely trying to imply that "power in the cloud" is equivalent to the processing power of local hardware. To me, this is beyond PR speech.
 

TheWanderer

Banned
Aug 6, 2013
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Thing is, even if MS get's outsold from the start with 499$ Kinect Xbox, it could be a real ace in the long run. Everyone has it, developers can/have to implement interestings things (headtracking etc.). But if the drop kinect and make a 399$ SKU , the sales gap will be slim at the beginning but they loose their longterm ace with Kinect which would differentiate them more from the PS4. Everything else will be decided by the games but that will probably be a stalemate with exclusive XY on PS4 side and exclusive XY on Xbox side.

It really depends on the numbers. Say the PS4 outsells the Xbox One 4:1. No way that keeping the Kinect would end up being worth that in the long run, and regardless, I really doubt that the Kinect will be used meaningfully on anything outside of Kinect titles. And the PS Camera does still exist, so for those who want Kinect titles, they will very likely be ported to PS4 as well.
 

Finalizer

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Jul 6, 2013
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But it's been reported that MS will 100 Xbox ones freely available at the show with I assume a variety of games. It makes no sense that the lack of a Video Stream from MS is due problems with an SDK update.
Are those confirmed to be actual Xbones, or will they just be devkits? Maybe even devkits housed inside Xbones? Maybe those could even still be running PC hardware instead of actual Xbone parts. Or maybe they're older, retired devkits being used with older revisions of games. Just taking wild guesses here, since I've no real idea in this regard. I wouldn't put much credit into games being playable on the floor, unless we see genuine Xbones being used there.
 

Metfanant

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Jun 23, 2010
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What?

We didn't know what the specifications were before Microsoft said they upped it. So when Microsoft turned around and said on a podcast, "WE UPPED IT!" after they had said specifications aren't important and not revealing previous numbers all we can really do is take their word for it.
my original point regarding clock speed was that MS said "specs dont matter" then they upped the clock speed...you argued that we didn't know the original clock speed...

we had the leaked specs...saying 800mhz...it was universally accepted as the clock speed...

then in a podcast the MS dude is like "well we upped the GPU clock speed from 800mhz to 853mhz"

that means...

1. we knew the original clock speed (the leak)
2. the upped the clock speed
3. MS confirmed the original clock speed
4. Specs matter
5. you contradicted yourself
 

twobear

sputum-flecked apoplexy
Oct 25, 2011
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I really hope this isn't right. Unfortunately, It's got a horrible ring of truth to it
Not really. Look at the Xbone games we've seen and tell me whether they look like they're targeting specs around twice as powerful as the PS4.
 

benny_a

extra source of jiggaflops
Apr 25, 2009
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What is there to discuss? Metfanant is correct.

Just say you don't give a shit about the outcome, but to insinuate that he isn't correct is blatantly absurd.
 

Pug

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youmustbenewhere.jpg



He specifically points that out that it's why there's no Gamescom livestream from MS. Read the first post.



Leaks are inherently bad news. PR isn't going to hide good news, especially for something in a situation like the Xbone's.



Probably word on MS' end of the grapevine.
Are those confirmed to be actual Xbones, or will they just be devkits? Maybe even devkits housed inside Xbones? Maybe those could even still be running PC hardware instead of actual Xbone parts. Or maybe they're older, retired devkits being used with older revisions of games. Just taking wild guesses here, since I've no real idea in this regard. I wouldn't put much credit into games being playable on the floor, unless we see genuine Xbones being used there.
I don't know, but I'd be shocked if there are 100 plus Xbox one devkits. Further if if they are it still doesn't make sense that the SDK update is the reason is there is no stream. Personally I think that is nonsense.
 

LukasTaves

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Dec 14, 2011
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I believe they said architecture in a whole.
And who wants to show a console thats been hit with 15 to 20% performance ?
It would be the nail.

Edit: maybe its not consoles running but PC again with a gtx680 ?
Then why wouldn't they just use Pcs for the streaming?
 

Feindflug

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Jul 26, 2005
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More bad news for MS? it shouldn't be surprising I guess but still Xbone is one fucked up product with no focus and no planning at all. What the hell were they doing all those years? it's pretty clear that the system wasn't ready to be released at 2013...everything surrounding the system sounds like a mess.

Only good news coming out of this is the Platinum game, especially if it's a project that we wouldn't see without someone funding the project.
 

Skeff

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Only if they knew when they said 21 countries. The reason they gave is a lie, but not when they announced 21 a couple months ago.
We knew it was down to 13 countries back on the 26th July between then and the official announcement, they were lying, when the news broke again on a dutch website, MS exec tweeted to not believe everything you read, literally a few hours before the 21->13 press release.

It may not have been a lie when initially announce but it has been for around a month.
 

GribbleGrunger

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Oct 12, 2012
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I don't know, but I'd be shocked if there are 100 plus Xbox one devkits. Further if if they are it still doesn't make sense that the SDK update is the reason is there is no stream. Personally I think that is nonsense.
The reason is that what you saw at E3 was running on top end PCs and they wouldn't be able to get away with that again, and the last thing they'd want is for the code to chug badly at this point. AC chugged once or twice at the Sony conference but Sony didn't come into E3 with negative press on their backs (which made a refreshing change). This is behind closed doors so that they can pick and choose what they show.
 

Metfanant

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1) Oh. ;)
2) Apparently.
3) Apparently.
4) Obviously.
5) lol

Apparently what?...there is no apparently...MS said they upped the clock speed from 800 to 853...that just IS...no apparently...

as for the "lol"

you originally said...

We don't know for a fact they upped anything. We didn't know what it originally was.
you then said...

As far as I was aware they said, "We upped it from 800 - 853~!" on a podcast before ever announcing it was 800mhz in the first place though.

Perhaps I missed something.
if you dont think thats a contradiction...idk what else to say...
 

Xater

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Jul 28, 2007
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More bad news for MS? it shouldn't be surprising I guess but still Xbone is one fucked up product with no focus and no planning at all. What the hell were they doing all those years? it's pretty clear that the system wasn't ready to be released at 2013...everything surrounding the system sounds like a mess.

Only good news coming out of this is the Platinum game, especially if it's a project that we wouldn't see without someone funding the project.
Don't forget the possible drop of Kinect as a mandatory accessory you have to buy with the box. I'll probably by a Xbone down the line and I will be happy to do so for cheaper and without that thing.
 
Sep 2, 2011
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I don't know, but I'd be shocked if there are 100 plus Xbox one devkits. Further if if they are it still doesn't make sense that the SDK update is the reason is there is no stream. Personally I think that is nonsense.
Considering there are at least 10 Microsoft studios alone around the world, not to mentiom third parties I would bloody well hope there is more than 100 dev kits floating about.
 

Castef

Mambar
Sep 7, 2011
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again, they didnt OPTIMIZE anything...are you sure you're using the word youre actually looking for?...
"Another advantage of beta testing on the final hardware is that it allows Microsoft to move from the theory of how the Xbox One hardware would perform to its reality. Now that Microsoft has settled on the hardware and started to test units internally, the Xbox One team has been able to improve hardware performance, a process he called "tweaking the knobs."

"An example that's actually been really good news for us ... is we've tweaked up our clock speed on the GPU from 800 MHz to 853 MHz," he said. "Just an example of how you really start landing the program as you get closer to launch."


From here.

Use whatever word you'd like to use. "Tweak". "Optimize". The concept won't change: they did not upgrade the hardware, they just adjusted the clock speed to the maximum they could get.

And your complaint is still stretchy and fabricated, just to add another point to that list.

Does not seem honest at all.
 

Pug

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The reason is that what you saw at E3 was running on top end PCs and they wouldn't be able to get away with that again, and the last thing they'd want is for the code to chug badly at this point. AC chugged once or twice at the Sony conference but Sony didn't come into E3 with negative press on their backs (which made a refreshing change). This is behind closed doors so that they can pick and choose what they show.
There is apparently 100 Xbox ones on display and freely open to the public at Gamescom. I assume there will be a range of titles being demoed.
 

Averon

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Aug 27, 2008
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More bad news for MS? it shouldn't be surprising I guess but still Xbone is one fucked up product with no focus and no planning at all. What the hell were they doing all those years? it's pretty clear that the system wasn't ready to be released at 2013...everything surrounding the system sounds like a mess.

Only good news coming out of this is the Platinum game, especially if it's a project that we wouldn't see without someone funding the project.
This is the most shocking aspect to me. What the hell was MS doing all those years? They certainly weren't making 360 exclusives, so where did all that time went? In contrast, it looks like Sony had every intention of launching the PS4 in 2013--all while still pumping out PS3 exclusives. Resource management between Sony and MS are night and day apart.
 

uncharted86

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Jul 31, 2012
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I hope they do. If I ever saw a professional outlet use a Cboat post as their source or as confirmation for anything, I would have a serious case of the facepalms.
Ready your facepalms.

It hasn't stopped Gamereactor DK, the biggest gaming site in Denmark, from reporting on this thread:

[Danish]Rygte: Microsoft klar til Kinect-fri Xbox One næste år

It seems they do like their rumors lately. They were the first to break the Xbox One delay rumors.
 

Metfanant

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Jun 23, 2010
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"Another advantage of beta testing on the final hardware is that it allows Microsoft to move from the theory of how the Xbox One hardware would perform to its reality. Now that Microsoft has settled on the hardware and started to test units internally, the Xbox One team has been able to improve hardware performance, a process he called "tweaking the knobs."

"An example that's actually been really good news for us ... is we've tweaked up our clock speed on the GPU from 800 MHz to 853 MHz," he said. "Just an example of how you really start landing the program as you get closer to launch."


From here.

Use whatever word you'd like to use. "Tweak". "Optimize". The concept won't change: they did not upgrade the hardware, they just adjusted the clock speed to the maximum they could get.

And your complaint is still stretchy and fabricated, just to add another point to that list.

Does not seem honest at all.
I NEVER SAID THEY UPGRADED THE HARDWARE

i said they upped the console's specs...which is 150% TRUE...they went in and changed a value from 800mhz to 853mhz because they realized they could...there was no "optimization" what happened was instead of emulating Xbone specs on other hardware they now had their hands on ACTUAL hardware...and they realized..."oh wow, we can squeeze some extra speed out of this bad boy without it cooking itself"


whats not "honest at all" is just about everything MS has said regarding the Xbone...
 

Finalizer

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Jul 6, 2013
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Use whatever word you'd like to use. "Tweak". "Optimize". The concept won't change: they did not upgrade the hardware, they just adjusted the clock speed to the maximum they could get.
And no matter how you describe it, hardware clocks are specs. Changing the clock speed is changing the system spec. There is no ambiguity here or room for semantic quibbling.
 

twobear

sputum-flecked apoplexy
Oct 25, 2011
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This is the most shocking aspect to me. What the hell was MS doing all those years? They certainly weren't making 360 exclusives, so where did all that time went? In contrast, it looks like Sony had every intention of launching the PS4 in 2013--all while still pumping out PS3 exclusives. Resource management between Sony and MS are like night a day apart.
It's not like MS dragging their feet is new occurrence. Remember Vista's hellish development?
 

benny_a

extra source of jiggaflops
Apr 25, 2009
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Use whatever word you'd like to use. "Tweak". "Optimize". The concept won't change: they did not upgrade the hardware, they just adjusted the clock speed to the maximum they could get.
He said they upgraded the specs. The specs before were 800MHz for the GPU. Now it's 853Mhz.

I think you've exhausted your point.
 

S¡mon

Banned
May 13, 2013
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I NEVER SAID THEY UPGRADED THE HARDWARE

i said they upped the console's specs...which is 150% TRUE...they went in and changed a value from 800mhz to 853mhz because they realized they could...there was no "optimization" what happened was instead of emulating Xbone specs on other hardware they now had their hands on ACTUAL hardware...and they realized..."oh wow, we can squeeze some extra speed out of this bad boy without it cooking itself"
You know, I fully agree with you that they upped the clockspeed and there was an actually improvement...but, I fully disagree with you that the suddenly realized 'wait, what? How could we have not seen that after years of development... we can squeeze out some extra speed!'.

I think, at best, they found out that their cooling fans operated better than expected in the final retail box, or they changed the fans... thus realizing that they could up the clockspeed without any real problems.

(I mean, come on, Microsoft is a multi-billion dollar company... they don't just suddenly find out they can do more with their hardware a few months before launch). So at worst, I think they wanted to close the gap with the PS4 (getting rid of the 'PS4 is 50% more powerful!'-statement) and the cooling fans probably run at a slightly higher rate (thus it will be slightly louder).
 

CoG

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Mar 10, 2007
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This is the most shocking aspect to me. What the hell was MS doing all those years? They certainly weren't making 360 exclusives, so where did all that time went? In contrast it looks like Sony had every intention of launching the PS4 in 2013--all while still pumping out PS3 exclusives.
They gave up on gamers all the way back to the NXE launch back in 2008. Ever since then it's been Kinect the yearly CoD and Halo release for the brawhs. The original focus of the Xbone was following the same trajectory adding TV and football to further differentiate it from yucky gaming consoles. What they didn't anticipate was the tremendous level of backlash they received.

I think they expected some level of backlash but they didn't expect it to float all the way up to mainstream media and affect pre-order sales as it did. Thus the constant stream of backpedaling since E3 which has further diluted their focus. At this point the Xbox is just a more expensive, less-powerful PS4.

Their best strategy at this point is to open the warchest as they did back in 2006 and start moneyhatting every single dev for exclusivity. It's exactly what they were trying to avoid this gen because it's costly and it's going to be even more costly this time around because PS4 will likely have a large unit lead over them from the get-go. Expect massive, massive marketing in the US as well. If you can't beam 'em, market the shit out of it. Worked for Surface. Oh wait, it didn't.
 

Mandoric

Banned
Jan 6, 2005
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I don't think cboat hates MS, but he does leak information that could hurt them. As someone who is attached to his own company (a much smaller one, though), I find it slightly disturbing. Or maybe that's not the word, but I don't think it's a healthy situation.
Someone like Albert Penello, for example, was quite clear that he won't make things harder to his colleagues (of course he's probably higher ranked, and is not hiding his identity like cboat). It makes for less juicy information, but at least you don't get that "stabbed in the back" feeling.
It's not like he's all-out sour on MS. Even this post mentions a must-play exclusive and potential for an SKU that removes the other big core-gamer complaint.

MS is famously byzantine and there's plenty of room to believe the company would be better forced to 180 before launch than after. Or that it's better to telegraph schedule setbacks and explain what's going on, than let them leak out anyway via external devs.
 
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