What the hell, Bayonetta 2 was in development at the same time as Max Anarchy. Not to mention all other Platinums games did far worse, so if anything that would have reinforced them wanting a sequel to Bayonetta.
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DmC Devil May Cry Ships 1 Million Copies; Forecast Lowered To 1.2 Million
- Thread starter BLACK AMERICAN PSYCHO
- Start date
Started playing yesterday, and I prefer it to DMC4 already.
However, the silly notion that westerners will buy games in droves just because they're developed by non-japanese studios, is idiotic. It needs to go away. Japanese devs need to restructure their internal studios and cultivate creativity, rather than outsourcing their IPs left and right.
Nintendo seems to be the only developer that can safely get away with farming out franchises to western studios.
However, the silly notion that westerners will buy games in droves just because they're developed by non-japanese studios, is idiotic. It needs to go away. Japanese devs need to restructure their internal studios and cultivate creativity, rather than outsourcing their IPs left and right.
Nintendo seems to be the only developer that can safely get away with farming out franchises to western studios.
Can Crusher
Banned
I don't seem to understand.
How is DMC4 selling? That game shipped 2 million copies in its first month, in 2008 (let's have some perspective). It was also coming into a new console, and the 360 audience was looking to taste.
4 years later, and DMC4 only sold 2.6 million copies, indicating really poor long term success. This is the exact reason why Capcom wanted to reinvent DmC. The old formula wasn't allowing the franchise to exactly grow at a pace that Capcom wanted.
You can attribute that to genre appeal, but it's also a fact that DMC 1 sold ~3 million copies on PS2.
DMC2 sold 1 million less. No doubt affected by poor word of mouth that slashed its long term success. It lost that extra audience.
DMC3 as a result, became a slow burner. Initially not setting charts on fire, but good word of mouth and a re-release brought faith back.
Because of it DMC4 had a better chance at success, and Xbox 360 brought some new excitement to it, because it was a new audience and DMC was a big PS exclusive. Yet it fizzled, it still didn't manage to sell as much as Devil May Cry 1.
5 years have passed, and interest in the franchise hasn't grown at all despite a reboot that for all intents and purposes brought a new visual flair to the franchise.
Interest is simply low, and the impact of DMC2 is still felt to this day. You also have to understand that the DMC franchise now suffers from identity crysis, because of this failure.
DMC2 was nothing like DMC1. DMC3 was nothing like DMC1 and 2 (off the charts difficult upon release). DMC4 didn't feel like a follow up to DMC3, nor 2, nor 1.
Capcom tried the reboot to "cure" that problem, and it failed. This isn't good news for the franchise at all, and DMC5 won't be the answer to its problems.
What? Where have you seen these numbers?
I love DMC. This is a subpar entry in the DMC franchise.
That's what there is to complain about.
SnakeSlashRO
Banned
DmC is amazing. Theres a thread where some place is selling it for 20 dollars.
But its worth every penny
But its worth every penny
Not really. I absolutely hated the level and boss recycling in DMC4. Yes, you fight some bosses several times in DMC1 as well but it's nowhere near as bad and poorly executed as in DMC4. After forcing you to go through the whole game in reverse, facing the same bosses, they made you fight them again at the very end. That's the lamest attempt at stretching a game's length that I've ever seen. Turned me sour on the whole game. And the new weapons in DMC4 were mostly crap as well. Stupid looking thing that shoots pink crystals into all directions? No thanks! I prefer the shotgun.
DMC1 is really the only excellent game in the series. Nothing feels bloated and unnecessary, everything fits perfectly and the level design is superb (bland level design is why I don't love DMC3 btw).
I thought DMC4 wasn't all that great, and this is a franchise that has produced DMC2 in its mainline games. Let's not get crazy. I don't mind diverging opinions, but there seems to be people that are pissed off that others are enjoying DmC, and that's just silly.
Not sure how one can feel "insulted about a game", however a so called game journalist that largely dismisses valid criticism about a game and outright insults the fanbase is what i take issue with. Pretty sure that kind of thing wasn't done in the days of Next Generation and Diehard Gamefan. But then back in those time the gaming press were hardcore gamers themselves, as opposed to people starving for site hits.
Dave1988
Member
I think he means the Drednought shield where Dante is surrounded by a shield for a few seconds.
I couldn't care less if people are enjoying it. And yeah, DMC2 sucked. DMC 1,3, and 4 didn't. /shrug
Monocle
Member
Actually, for some time it was unclear whether DmC was a reboot, a prequel, or a story set in an alternate universe. The fan reaction was negative regardless. So no, the analogy does not in fact depend on what kind of story we're talking about. What it highlights is how senseless it is to trash DMC fans for their negative reactions to DmC when their response was totally typical of a fanbase that witnesses the franchise they support being degraded by inept creators.
And yet you're still posting here?
Oh right, lol, I forgot 2 doesn't "exist," shows I've obviously never been much of a DMC fan. I really never could get used to the fixed camera angles in the older DMCs more than anything. DmC's given me an interest in playing them, though. I tried the first the other day, but it's tough. Don't you have a limited number of continues in it?
direct_quote
Member
In DMC3 you do the samething .... It's meant to add an extra challenge to the last couple of levels to refight the bosses (though DMC3 did let you choose what bosses to fight on the chess level).
Jathaine
Member
Ah, right.
That one is nearly useless, so much so that I forgot all about it. Well, not useless if you're in the business of getting hit.
Its one of those things that really loses its luster the better you actually get at the game.
I get that, but be mad at the journalist then. I feel like some people are taking it out on the game and the developers, and that's not fair. NT was given a series, and told to make it more "western". They tried, and produced a damn good game.
You wanted DMC5? Don't be mad at DmC or NT, be mad at the DMC team for making DD, which they seem to be enjoying, and for now making DD2.
Continuity
Member
Ever since DMC3 the series has stopped focusing on general level design and pacing, and focused purely on the combat system. The games are not so much a story-driven experience and more like a playground with a boatload of toys for you to play with, DMC4 Dante has so many abilities that he can literally do anything as long as the player is good enough.
Haunted
Member
Guess we agree to disagree, I like it just as much as the Japanese ones, maybe I'd put 3 ahead of it in terms of gameplay and 4 ahead of it in terms of style and Dante's character, but that's about it.
Now if you'll excuse me, I'm in the RE6 sales thread switching sides, because I don't like that game.
ViewtifulJC
Banned
That's incorrect data. DMC1 is at 2.160m. That's lower than DMC4's 2.7m.
Glass Rebel
Member
DMC4 is the best-selling entry, DMC1 didn't sell ~3m units but ~2.2m.
Guess we agree to disagree, I like it just as much as the Japanese ones, maybe I'd put 3 ahead of it in terms of gameplay and 4 ahead of it in terms of style and Dante's character, but that's about it.
Now if you'll excuse me, I'll be in the RE6 sales thread doing the same thing you're doing in this one because I don't like that game.
Honest question, on which playthrough and on which difficulty are you with DmC?
Duxxy3
Member
You could argue that from day 1 the series has been more about the combat system than it has been about level design, pacing or story.
That's why I bought DMC HD Collection on DmC launch day instead.
Haunted
Member
Finished it once on normal difficulty.
I'm a fan of the character action genre more than the series, specifically. Not quite content tourist levels, but I'm not interested in replaying any of them (which significantly lowered my opinion of DMC4 after a great first half, btw).
Honestly, throw me in the camp that says DMC5 wouldn't have sold as well as DMC4 either. DMC4 came out at a great time for that game, but I just feel that 5 years later, the appeal of that genre has unfortunately waned. Japanese hack n slash adventure games had great popularity among me and my friends. All of us still game to an extent, but I'm the only one that still likes that genre. Everyone else wants more cinematic experiences like GoW.
Absolutely. DMC4 really befitted from being the first entry in the series that is multiplatform as well as the first HD entry in the series. It got a relatively mixed reception when things were all said and done.
Well it actually doesn't except for those regions, of which are what percentage of the total market (and even then we don't know the base sales range for each of the given period).
Hardly definitive, and Capcom would certainly make noise about the HD collection shipping a million.
Well it actually doesn't except for those regions, of which are what percentage of the total market (and even then we don't know the base sales range for each of the given period).
Hardly definitive, and Capcom would certainly make noise about the HD collection shipping a million.
Which is why I regard DMC 3 and 4 to be inferior to DMC1. I also think the combat system and choice of weapons in DMC1 was already perfect. DMC3 with its 3 styles felt a little unfocussed to me and DMC4 was straight up bloated with some incredibly lame, unnecessary and gimmicky weapons.
DMC1 was definitely about level design. In my opinion that aspect was just as important for its success as the nigh perfect combat system.
Unspeakable Evil
Member
To be honest I feel this way too.
Can Crusher
Banned
Well my numbers were off there.
Still it's 2.2 on 1 platform vs 2.7 on 2. I still stand by my reasoning, and I see nothing in the history of the franchise that makes me believe that DMC 5 would be the answer to Capcom's problems regarding the franchise.
At this point, they either press through with DmC 2, or they should focus on something new.
Duxxy3
Member
3 platforms, unless they're not counting DMC4 sales on PC.
No Just Guard and Just Release (in the game it's called Royal Guard and Royal Release) are godlike moves. I am talking about this stationary yellow shield he puts up that absorbs projectiles. I mean it's not that bad but when you are highly skilled at the game the move is useless.
I don't even know what it's called, it's mapped to R1 + Back + O.
Also I don't think anyone expected DMC5 to sell as much as DMC4 but it would've sold better than DmC guaranteed. If a next-gen DMC5 is announced, I would bet it will do better than DmC. Fuck it I am calling it now... if DMC5 is announced I am pre-ordering 5 copies and giving them out to random GAFFERS.
ViewtifulJC
Banned
Your reasoning is probably similar to Capcom's reasoning, and I do believe the series will be laid to rest before they go back an do a DMC5 any time soon.
Glass Rebel
Member
Well, that's the "problem" here. To me the game got progressively worse on repeated playthroughs (constant interruptions become more aggravating, more coloured enemies, shortcomings of the combat system become more apparent on higher difficulties). I just went back to DMC4 Bloody Palace and another SoS run.
They are focusing on something new, and that's Dragon's Dogma, which is what the DMC team is working on. They feel that they can achieve some growth with that franchise.
At this point, they should probably let NT make DmC2 on next gen consoles, let word of mouth spread about DmC (like DMC3 did), and see where it goes. The trick, though, is to not take 5 years between iterations.
thesolidshark
Member
I kind of feel that a lot of the DmC criticism has to do not just with the game itself, but with the trend it's a part of - a feel of a decline in the action genre. Franchises that delivered, like NG with 3 or DMC with DmC are underperforming now. Outside of Platinum, there's no guarantees out there. Action fans of old aren't being catered to like they used to. It's not that good can be acknowledged, but it's really sad when greatness was within reach, subjectively of course.
The complaint with the lore from my perspective is that feels abruptly interrupted from 4 to DmC, and still feels somewhat untapped within DmC, like it could bring some all-new things to the table, but doesn't. Like I've mentioned in other posts about DmC, I would at least like to see what the angel side of the lore looks and acts like.
Glass Rebel
Member
DMC4 was pretty early in the beginning of the new generation. Console user-base has roughly doubled by now. And clearly "higher sales" couldn't have been the sole motivation when their initial expectations were less than both DMC1 and DMC4.
They aren't.
Duxxy3
Member
Makes me wonder how well the PC version sold. It was by far the best version.
There were no gimmick weapons in DMC4, each weapon served its purpose. DMC1 had a lot of gimmick weapons (Nightmare Beta) alongside palette swap swords (Force Edge, Alastor, Yamato, Sparda etc).
You are just running down your opinion on the later games... fact of the matter is their weapon selection and combat blows apart anything in DMC1.
pretty much this
Can Crusher
Banned
Grand Theft Auto 4 released in 2008, 2 months after DMC4. 2 years later it had sold 15 million copies.
Size of console install base wasn't a problem for DMC4.
direct_quote
Member
People keep saying Capcom should have tried something new for sales but they tried Dragon's Dogma and it sold poorly aswell...
I am glad that Dragon's Dogma exists. it's one of my favorite games this year, so i am not mad at Itsuno's team for making it.
I am however annoyed that DmC isn't simply a new IP. It doesn't really play like Devil May Cry, the combat is more of a evolution of Heavenly Sword's combat than DMC. This would be fine if it were a new IP. Why wasn't it a new IP? The character names and some weapons are just about all they have in common with the original series, personalities are almost completely different, as are most of their motivations. Dante doesn't even open up a demon hunting shop called Devil May Cry , which is what the series is named for.
So the combat doesn't hold up, nor does the characters( Sorry Donte , but i don't like annoying , edgy , teens in real life, why would i want to play a game as one? ) So why call it Devil May Cry at all? Publishers too afraid of new IP's so they stamp the name of an established franchise onto a completely different game. ( i have the same complaints about Lost Planet 3) Going by sales it didn't work out as planned.
If i am mad at anyone it is Capcom. I don't understand why they thought NT would be a good fit for a DMC game, did they play Heavenly Sword?
call_kotaku
Member
The feel of a fanbase
Glass Rebel
Member
It's a pretty sad state of affairs when 4 (including Yamato) completely different melee weapons are regarded as "bloated".
You're not doing yourself any favours by citing a game which didn't outsell its predecessor.
Or a game in a completely different genre for that matter.
You're not doing yourself any favours by citing a game which didn't outsell its predecessor.
Or a game in a completely different genre for that matter.
Discotheque
Banned
Yes it will but frankly I think the genre peaked with bayonetta and ninja gaiden (and some could argue dmc 3) gameplay wise
everything else is downhill from those
Just pick up the HD Collection instead.
Can Crusher
Banned
Point here?
Because if your point is that since Dragon Dogma sold crap, they should make DMC5...I don't see how you connect those dots.
It sold 25 million copies man. And it started out with a much smaller install base (your own argument)....
Are you trying to make some point? At any point?
Kai Dracon
Writing a dinosaur space opera symphony
I'd say DmC enjoys Nintendo-levels of success in cooperating with a western studio. That's the thing - most of the time, Nintendo doesn't "farm out" games to western studios in the way most people use farm out. They partner with a studio as a subsidiary and there's close oversight of development. As well as sharing resources and expertise. Allegedly, that's what Capcom did with DmC, for all the negativity surrounding the game.
This is nothing new. Capcom "did it right" before, such as working with Blue Castle on Dead Rising 2 and OTR - which worked out so well Capcom acquired the studio.
The truer definition of farming out is what happens with stuff like the console Bionic Commando. From all reports, Capcom did more or less throw the IP at a western developer and couldn't be bothered to work with them hardly at all. And the result was more or less a disaster.
For all that there are arguably conceptual mistakes with DmC - such as rebooting the continuity - the end product proves that east-west partnerships can result in good games.
Japanese companies probably cannot remain isolated, if only because that increasingly isn't how development works for larger scale games. They're becoming global efforts already. It's just that Japan remains relatively isolated. It seems there are still problems with the basic principles involved. Japanese publishers are still often approaching the situation with either "farm it out with no oversight or sharing of resources" or "stick to ourselves and try to imitate western design and production without understanding it". True collaboration seems more productive. But collaboration is still rare.
But that's how it's been with the entire franchise up to this point. It's amazing, but after replaying them, the only game in the mainline series that was actually about Dante was DMC1.
Dante in DMC2 was fucking terrible, barely spoke, and they turned him into Two-Face, where everyone of his actions was determined by a coin flip (why?). DmC Dante had more in common with DMC1 Dante than DMC2 Dante did.
DMC3 Dante was about him, but it's a prequel, and his character acts pretty different, so I felt like they went backwards in Dante's development (I mean, they literally did). There was also a lot in there about Lady, Vergil, etc.
DMC4 was about Nero.
I guess it's why I like DmC's story. Yeah, it may be a reboot, but for the most part, it focused on Dante and his development. I also want DmC2, because for once, I want to see the development of this Dante continue and see where it goes.
The action genre was fantastic last gen, but this gen has just been disappointing. Too many fans seem to be demanding that it become more and more niche was simply focusing on the combat, and not caring at all about level design or pacing. At the same time, the wider audience wants more cinematic experiences, and developers don't know what to do. Some try to achieve a balance and fail miserably on it. Others seem to have just given up on the genre. Ninja Gaiden Black is my favorite in the genre because it got so many things right, but I've yet to play anything that matches it.