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Free to Play Halo Online (Saber, H3 eng) announced, only for Russia [First Info]
- Thread starter ThatsMytrunks
- Start date
Fix up Halo 1, 2, and throw us a bone on Halo 3. Allow modding, and release on Steam/GOG.
This has been my dream for years.
Dictator93
Member
tag quote!
Github page is down ;-; They even got Forge half-working on H3 maps, damn.
Also Grief, I'm starting to suspect we never saw them on Steam because MS decided to pull them to develop this... thing. It was late 2012 we got the first steamDB update? Would make sense it took ~3 years to port all assets/redo the engine.
Also Grief, I'm starting to suspect we never saw them on Steam because MS decided to pull them to develop this... thing. It was late 2012 we got the first steamDB update? Would make sense it took ~3 years to port all assets/redo the engine.
This won't stop anything,
I know, it's just easier for developers to collaborate if there's a communal space. They'll surely find another but progress might well be delayed and I'm chomping at the bit for online play lol.
RandomExpletive
Member
Halo with Steam Workshop integration... almost too good
It's disappointing Microsoft can't see the interest Halo on PC actually has. You port over Halo MCC, go even further with mod tools, community content, colloboration, sharing and a marketplace. Microsoft could do all that and reap the rewards. Not some F2P fleece fest. You want Halo to be even bigger, open it up to the PC community. Can you imagine the Halo games and something like Garrys Mod for all content. Microsoft could build something great that never stops growing. If Microsoft are working on something for PC like this and it's taking time, fair enough but if they aren't how very sad.
I would never play another multiplayer game.
They know there's plenty of interest, they just want you to buy a $350.00 console box, a copy of a $60.00 game, and pay them a $60.00 yearly fee to actually be able to play it online. All that within an ecosystem where they make additional money off of every single purchase you make.
ASSauLTxMasTER
Member
Ah yes, latest release of El Dorito supports Forge, Third Person, gamemodes, and semi-loadouts now.
It just gets better and better
It just gets better and better
Now all we need is MPAh yes, latest release of El Dorito supports Forge, Third Person, gamemodes, and semi-loadouts now.
It just gets better and better
AllIsOneIsNone
Banned
Then I'd be pissed I got an XBone. Microsoft knows what theyre doing.
Tesseract
Banned
Hi guys, I asked this early and was given an answer but new developments have me confused again. How is this not piracy? I've been looking at the definition of piracy just to see if I could understand myself without having to ask you guys but what is happening here fits the description as far as I can see. When I had asked earlier I was told that it wasn't piracy because the files were put up for free on the internet but a quick gloss over the definition again shows that copyright infringement and illegal recreation and distribution falls under the pirate umbrella too. Isn't this illegal recreation and distribution and also copyright infringement? they even issued what looks like a cease and desist (Im not too sure so Im asking you guys). If it isnt illegal recreation and distribution and copyright infringement then how comes? what makes it different? I find this very interesting. Can someone help
It is, ignore those that are just trying to make themselves feel better about it. The game has a model which would allow it to generate money, and that's being deliberately circumvented here. It's not "free" in the way these people are trying to justify it as being.
AzureSkies
Member
They didn't issue a cease and desist at all, they issued a DMCA notice towards the open source software built on the leak. No part of El Dorito's release or source used the files of the original.
I think if Microsoft were going to shutdown anyone, it would be Auracore who are building private server software off of reverse engineering the game's code, and will possibly have micro transactions in.
But then this also confuses me because people who talk about pirating on this site get banned. Pretty quickly too. No one here is banned. I'm wondering if there is some loophole that makes this not piracy and if so why don't they (they being...well...the internet) talk about it more openly? My understanding is that modding is only allowed legally if the dev and publisher allow it. I don't think ms wants this.
Thanks for the response. That clears one art up but still confuses me. How does El dorito's release work. Is it modified code off of the original source? Is it the original source with new code over it? What makes what he is releasing "Halo". I'm not really explaining this too well but I hope you understand what I'm trying to say.
Dictator93
Member
Then we would not have half of any of the mods that exist out there. Regardless of what their intentions are.
Perhaps you should bring your concerns up with a mod.
Zomba13
Member
The way I see it is that it's a F2P game. The game is available free to download and play with the option to pay for added things like guns and bits and all that f2p goodness. Downloading the game and then making a mod or trainer for said game that fucks around with the code and lets you play without going to the servers isn't really piracy.
Now, you could make the argument that it becomes piracy once someone used hacks to acquire items they would need to pay for (like the pay for currency or weapons). But then if you can buy that stuff with a freely available in game currency (like coins in the F2P Pokémon Shuffle as opposed to the limited rewarded/pay for currency of crystals) is it still piracy to use an exploit for them?
Piracy gets confusing with F2P stuff. At the end of the day you could just fall back on stuff like it's illegal to redistribute things from an IP you don't own or something. But if the trainer doesn't do that and people are getting the files from the place MS themselves hosted then is there even a problem? Is it more akin to people use hacks to cheat?
Now, you could make the argument that it becomes piracy once someone used hacks to acquire items they would need to pay for (like the pay for currency or weapons). But then if you can buy that stuff with a freely available in game currency (like coins in the F2P Pokémon Shuffle as opposed to the limited rewarded/pay for currency of crystals) is it still piracy to use an exploit for them?
Piracy gets confusing with F2P stuff. At the end of the day you could just fall back on stuff like it's illegal to redistribute things from an IP you don't own or something. But if the trainer doesn't do that and people are getting the files from the place MS themselves hosted then is there even a problem? Is it more akin to people use hacks to cheat?
AllIsOneIsNone
Banned
If there's anything that would make me question my post or the nature of my being, it's Tesseract saying mhm.
AzureSkies
Member
It requires the leak, it just allows you to load into maps at the moment, activate a couple of cool features (remove hud, godmode etc) and use Forge mode.
It's a dll and exe, no assets are bundled with it at all. If anything, El Dorito shows how desperate western players are to play Halo 3 on PC.
I H8 Memes
Member
Hey when you guys get done with this can you work on spoofing Dota 2 servers so we can all play using any cosmetics we want without paying for them.
Any other new updates or is that it for now?
I agree with this, to be honest. Doesn't seem to be stopping anyone though.
Guess it was bound to happen when you region lock a PC game //shrug
Pops Maellard
Member
Wait, so what has been discussed in this thread is a way to play a fully functional, multiplayer version of Halo Online while also circumventing the payment model?
Because last I checked, people are finding a way booting a noticeably unfinished game, and running around a handful of maps /alone/.
Even in its unfinished state, people are just giving themselves equipment that is part of the game's payment model. The goal is quite clearly to clone the official offering, but not be at the mercy of either the regional locking, or its f2p ecosystem. Unless of course you believe that when it is fully functional everyone's going to then decide to play by the rules out of respect for the official version?
MrGreencastle
Member
Can I buy it? Nope.
Can I play it? Nope.
Not a Russian.
Educational fair use.
Besides, this is PC we're talking about. People will have the entire game gutted within days of the final version releasing and there'll be total conversions, texture mods, offline modes, custom UIs, and everything else under the sun. People remade tons of Halo 3 assets in Halo CE. You can't stop it, and it's only healthy for it in the end I think. Mod communities kept Halo alive on PC well after it's welcome and good for them I say.
I'm not saying there's anything we can do about it. Hell, I'm not even saying I won't give it a try myself when it's actually playable (I've spent countless hours on Schthack's PSO server). I'm just saying that we shouldn't try to claim it's something it isn't.
Regardless of where you get the files from, the effect is the same. It would be a bit like downloading a trial off XBLA and then working out how to unlock it without a purchase. Sure, they gave you all the files willingly, but you know damn well that you're not supposed to be accessing them in that way. I don't even think "not Russian" works a valid excuse either. They're not obligated to provide the service to you (another PSO example here, PSO2). Making it free still devalues it in the areas they are trying to provide it to.
MrGreencastle
Member
No they aren't. But releasing it on an open platform and then crying foul when people tinker is silly. Like amateur hour PC developer stuff. Embrace it or get caught with your pants down when everyone flocks over to the version people will actually want to play. $10, Forge won't even be part of this game. $20, people will be unlocking Forge with mods and spending hours upon hours making that "perfect" variant of "Riverworld" (Valhalla) for Zombies customs on private servers. I say it's adding value.
RandomExpletive
Member
I'm sure someone'll abuse the mods and mess with the official servers, unlocking guns/equipment and messing with people, but I hope the main focus of this effort is on creating a way to play Halo 3 on PC.
As long as Halo 3's weapons/vehicles/equipment/etc aren't behind a paywall, and the modders bring those together with some re-balancing to get us Halo 3 PC, I wouldn't have a problem with that.
I'd rather have Halo 3 officially on Steam, but I honestly don't see MS making that happen
As long as Halo 3's weapons/vehicles/equipment/etc aren't behind a paywall, and the modders bring those together with some re-balancing to get us Halo 3 PC, I wouldn't have a problem with that.
I'd rather have Halo 3 officially on Steam, but I honestly don't see MS making that happen
Well, to be fair, they don't appear to have said a whole lot about it at all. They're just requesting takedowns. No reason for them to help the version that'd eat their lunch arrive sooner, before they even get to do their test run. Which btw is a pretty important distinction between this and the community extending the life of Halo CE. You'd already have paid for Halo CE prior to using these mods. They didn't somehow prevent Halo CE making money in the first place.
I'd buy the "it's adding value" argument if it that value wasn't being added only to a bootleg version of the software. It's not adding any value for legitimate users in the way something like Counter Strike did to Half-Life.
But yea, you're right... they probably should have seen it coming. So I guess next time someone wants to whip out that list of broken Microsoft PC promises, they may want to consider why the company is hesitant to put valuable software on the platform.
Does that really matter to this discussion though? There could be any number of reason why they decided against that, from resources required, to localising what may be a pretty rough initial ecosystem, etc.
What they chose to do is largely unimportant. Basically the message being sent is that if they don't simply give us exactly what we want, when we want, then we'll just take it. Not in our region? We'll make it. Not entirely free? We'll make it, etc.
MrGreencastle
Member
Pretty much the PC platform to a T. They don't want that, then they can release it on their controlled platform.
Right now though, there are no legitimate users, since the software is unreleased and people will tinker to see what's possible until it can be obtained officially - if ever.
Yea, and that's what they've been doing. Which is a shame as I'd like to have access to their games without the limitations of the console.. but I guess unless they can make something more secure like the Windows Store a viable route, then it's probably not in their best interests.
If I felt like this was something people would simply play around with in the absence of the official game, then I'd have no problems with it. However, I expect that it'll probably just make the official version not very viable as a result of people simply opting for the "free" alternative. Maybe Halo Online could have been followed by a Forza Online or something similar, and they're currently scratching that off their to-do list right now lol.
Its called knowing your market, which somehow M$ hasn't figured out for gaming it appears. They had the full choice to not release a PC Halo yet if they didn't have resources, couldn't bear localizing costs, didn't have infrastructure in place, etc... They could have also opened the beta to other regions but have the server structure in Russia (laggy. but still could have)
PC gaming is a global market. PC software in general is.
When I was in Mongolia and my PC died I had to get a new Laptop for a project, they asked me what version of Windows I wanted installed on it, yep full English Windows with NA key. And if MS would not have let that Mongolian retailer sell a US retail version of Windows, he would have put a cracked US version on it for free (yep he asked me too). Its they way of the Market, you have to adapt, just as they did for their windows product (and got a sale in a territory they might not have).
Modernize or stay out.
I H8 Memes
Member
How do you know its not coming to the EU/US? it most likely is, its just debuting in Russia.
So basically, after all that, you pretty much just agree with me then. If they opt for "stay out" then it should be no real surprise. There are plenty of services that aren't initially made available worldwide immediately, and that applies to the digital realm as well as physical. When Google Music first launched, it wasn't available for use here in the UK. I can't watch many streaming services that currently cater only to the US etc. It's not reasonable to simply demand any service cater to everyone on the globe right away or you'll steal their shit. Having everyone simply connect to the Russian servers would probably just topple them, and leave nobody able to play like MCC and Driveclub. Halo Online looks to be an experiment atm, and not necessarily one with assured success, so they probably wanted to start out small until they have some idea of what form it would take in a full release. Some projects simply don't the go ahead to go all in without even running a pilot first. That's basically what you're demanding.. and if they're not willing to do that your alternative solution is simply "don't release for PC". So maybe they won't.. and you'll just keep complaining in future Windows 10 threads about not getting your PC Forza.
Ignoring that that's not even close to educational fair use, you're defense against piracy can't just be "it's going to happen anyway."
There is a payment model at play here that people are circumventing to play the product entirely freely. It's piracy.
Pirating a beta? Let's not forget that it still hasn't released 1.0.
MrGreencastle
Member
What is the payment model? As far as I know no one knows exactly that at this point. We know its free to play with aspects that are micro transaction based. If that's the case, one could absolutely play this game entirely freely without paying a cent, ever, like most free to play games. This is all getting a bit sensationalist. What we are talking about here is a program that allows you to walk around maps with a completely uncustomized default character by yourself. That's it. You can't even access a complete menu system. There is no networking. No servers. Nothing of the sort circumventing any payment models at all aside from being able to test out a number of weapons with slightly different textures in an isolated sandboxed environment. It hardly even qualifies as playable. I'm not saying it's going to happen any way with regards to piracy like you're suggesting I'm defending it or something, which I'm not so just stop accusing me of that. I'm talking about this modding tool that received a DMCA takedown notice on github. That people are going to mod the game, anyway. That is expected simply because its a PC game. Oh noes, some people downloaded a free game from their website and are able to spawn themselves by themselves in a custom lobby that's completely disconnected from the game altogether and replace a snipers projectiles with rockets. So evil. Even if you could somehow unlock weapons for yourself in the main game using this tool, which you can't, that's an issue with the game's server side security and it should be fixed for launch. It would be bad if people were able to circumvent the payment model to have an unfair advantage against those that do play, but this isn't even anywhere close to that, yet people are acting like it is just because it might potentially get to that point one day maybe. Right now the reality is that the game is unreleased and people are exploring the content that is in the data files in a way that is not damaging or even affecting anyone that would actually be playing the game as intended. The files were made available for free, and as far as I'm concerned you should be able to do whatever the heck you want with those files once they're on your PC so long as its not at a detriment to the service that will be made available to Russia. And this thing is nowhere near a detriment. You can't just automatically call tinkering and modding piracy because people are playing with a game not as the developer intended. So what? Tough. People are gonna mod, it comes with the platform and Microsoft is more than aware of that since they build Windows. It would be different if you had to pay up front for the files but you don't (or didn't) so this is at most against terms of use. But even then that only applies to their servers and matchmaking systems, not people mucking about in a glitched forge (with no saving or sharing system at all) on guardian offline disconnected from every single system that makes this game tick exclusively in Russia. This is akin to photoshopping a texture file and viewing it in mspaint. Get out of here with this piracy crap.
Yeah, that's the payment model.
Alright, I'll take a step back from my own position in the interest of diplomacy. Yes, playing a beta release with bare functionality harms essentially no one.
My comments on piracy we're mainly directed toward the beginning of your post. You cannot assert "I can't play, I can't pay, ergo I can download and play." That is piracy.
I also think there's an underlying attitude of - and I use this word intentionally knowing what it calls to mind - entitlement. No one is entitled to play Halo on PC; it may be the case that we just don't get to. Even if the release is locked to Russia circumventing their system to play the game free from their payment model is still piracy.