Genderfield V: The saga continues

Jun 14, 2018
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Well thats cause you actually play video games for fun.

Most of the folks posting are here are using it as a outlet to basically argue about politics. Its like going to every Gears Of War or Uncharted thread and saying

"all same political message crammed into them (straights, white males, majority) just because how some right wing activist feel about the left wing" =)

So to them, basically anything with about anything must be "agenda", no game can ever have anything in it or its a "agenda"

Gears Of War, oh that is a "alt right agenda"
Uncharted, "alt right agenda"
The Last Of Us...."sjw left agenda"
Forza, GT, Need For Speed, "car agenda," nasty oil companies trying to get us to support their AGENDA, its why I play zero racing games. DAMN IT, I PLAY GAMES TO ESCAPE not have General Motors shoving their AGENDA in my face!
Spyro - "dragon agenda" basically some stupid dragon propaganda to make us care about some fantasy creature so the Dragon party can win mid term elections, NICE TRY! bOyCott!
DMC5 -"disabled agenda" basically made to make us feel sorry about disabled people and to push us to subconsciously support prosthetics by big pharma, WAKE UP PEOPLE!
Yakuza series "Japanese tourism AGENDA"
and many more.

I don't even play games any more, don't want to support agendas, I mean....they look fun, but its best I have zero fun to stop them. /s
Nice review of your wonderful game :)

Oh and tell me, do you play videogames for fun?
 
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Thats not to say someone can't do it in a way that is only revealed when they tell you. If something is put in the work that is completely unknown to its real meaning, unless the person tells you, you are not going to know. SOME things can be understood and deciphered, ALL THINGS CAN'T! I might have the dumbest reason for why a dog is the main character in a book, you can't tell me that YOU KNOW 100% why that is, you can have many theory, you can't actually 100% know exactly why.

Might be the silliest thing I've ever heard someone claim.

" meanings meant to be inferred from writing, otherwise no one would understand the meaning of anyone's story"

Ok, and lets say I make a story in which that one part you don't get and I've made to not understand in the first place, only to say later on Twitter its really suppose to show how I feel about communism?

So I think this whole "agenda" thing is silly and even if someone believed something different then me and put it in the game, so long as the game is fun, I don't care. I never be able to play anything if those were the reasons I played games for lol

Be like "Great, I just found out that the maker of Puzzle Quest really made it to support racist beliefs and the blocks are really about segregation, never playing that game again" /s
What? What sense does this make? Why the hell would anyone write a story that isnt meant to be understood? What sensible writer would do this? This is nonsense.

You can think people acknowledging agendas in games and having an issue with that is silly, and that's alright. However, your reasoning is terrible. You can make the argument that everything has an agenda, as bad an argument as it would be, but if you can't even tell it's there, what relevance does it have?

What the posters here have an issue with here is, overt agendas that you know are there, that are acknowledged by the developers themselves, that they don't try to hide and advertise. People don't want their games to preach down to them, or seem like they're doing so. They like it even less when the people selling the games decide instead of ignoring the outrage, they decide to outright insult their fans.
 
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What? What sense does this make? Why the hell would anyone write a story that isnt meant to be understood? What sensible writer would do this? This is nonsense.

You can think people acknowledging agendas in games and having an issue with that is silly, and that's alright. However, your reasoning is terrible. You can make the argument that everything has an agenda, as bad an argument as it would be, but if you can't even tell it's there, what relevance does it have?

What the posters here have an issue with here is, overt agendas that you know are there, that are acknowledged by the developers themselves, that they don't try to hide and advertise. People don't want their games to preach down to them, or seem like they're doing so. They like it even less when the people selling the games decide instead of ignoring the outrage, they decide to outright insult their fans.
I know. I find him to be completely ignorant.
 
Jan 8, 2018
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Dice themselves said BFV was inspired by WW2 events instead of pandering toward SJW community why don't they create something faithfully to the war history and event? Not only that dismissing the actual criticism such as content and mode lacking in the BFV itself isn't going to help them to push away this controversy.
 
Mar 6, 2018
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Well, they found the one place where no one would dare challenge their opinion. Let them try to make that strawman argument here.

Seeing Dice and EA's continual misrepresentation and generalization of anyone who disagrees with them has moved me from "If I ever buy Battlefield V, I'll be buying a used copy" to "I'll likely be buying all my EA games used from now on." With Mass Effect now being a shell of its former self, that'll be easier than ever before.
 
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Well, they found the one place where no one would dare challenge their opinion. Let them try to make that strawman argument here.

Seeing Dice and EA's continual misrepresentation and generalization of anyone who disagrees with them has moved me from "If I ever buy Battlefield V, I'll be buying a used copy" to "I'll likely be buying all my EA games used from now on." With Mass Effect now being a shell of its former self, that'll be easier than ever before.
As usual, blaming the fans and acting like victims. I bet they're sighing because of the low number despite a huge marketing and development cost :messenger_sunglasses: now it's time for them to find an excuse for their incompetence regarding their product failures.
 
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As usual, blaming the fans and acting like victims. I bet they're sighing because of the low number despite a huge marketing and development cost :messenger_sunglasses: now it's time for them to find an excuse for their incompetence regarding their product failures.
You know, people can defend the drop in retail sales and attribute that to online sales, but I have NEVER seen a battlefield game drop to 50% off after it's been out a week, until Battlefield V. I don't think you can argue that something isn't seriously wrong when that happens.
 
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It's okay for video games too far from reality as long as fun and not to feel samey.
It's boring (for me) for nearly all western made and some Japanese (if they got woke by Sony) made video games have all same political message crammed into them (minorities, feminist, LGBTQ, sexist) just because how some left wing activist feel about the right wing who currently in charge of their nation or some famous movie director got caught for sexual crime but whatever as long as it is fun.

And for some people (a lot by judging from the sales) a woman with a prosthetic arm on the western front lines can break the fun in historical WW2 games.
It's not "some" if it's a whole Studio.

I can understand your point of view, because there are people who wants a game to not have external influences in its story to have their fun, but, imo, it's a weird and dumb point of view about videogames.
 
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You know, people can defend drop in retail sales and attribute that to online sales, but I have NEVER seen a battlefield game drop to 50% off after it's been out a week, until Battlefield V. I don't think you can argue that something isn't seriously wrong when that happens.
Yeah, Call of Duty: Black Ops 4 never had the same problem of discount sales a week after release despite physical sales down. No PR talk for BFV is also reinforcing the idea of doing badly in digital sales front while COD is exploding the digital sales.
 
May 22, 2018
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Rewriting the Heavy Water missions performed by Norwegian and British operatives into a single Teenage Girl and her Mother.
Does DICE at any point during the game say the mission is a true story?

Rewriting the French/Senegalese relationships as one far more racist than it was in reality.
Okay so they were still racist, but just.....not AS racist as the game depicts? Well I am so glad the 1930's and 40's racists have you to look out for them man otherwise people might think there was racism in the 30's AND 40's. But that would just be silly right? Seriously though this is such a weird nitpick to make. Its 1940's Europe. I am sure there was plenty of racism to go around and you trying to complain about them being too racist instead of the right amount of racist is just absurd. There are better hills to die on my firend.

Rewriting the SBS as recruiting prisoners/criminals.
Can't really say much here since I am not a historian of the SBS, but if they wanna toss in a wrinkle like that in their story to make it more interesting then I'm fine with it personally.

Game Breaking bugs and glitches
I never said their weren't any bugs or glitches. I just said a few posts ago actually that I have a shitload of complaints about the game. Nice try though.

Developers calling fans "uneducated".

Developers openly mocking their fans at large scale events.
Well when you have "fans" flooding Reddit, Youtube, Twitter and various other outlets with sexist and racist bullshit then yeah I would say they have every fucking right to call those people uneducated and mock them. People like that deserve to be mocked. I highly fucking doubt they are trying to mock the average joes that are complaining about turret speed or bombers getting to nuke the team at the beginning of matches. They are mocking the idiots who are throwing tantrums because there are women in their video game and are trying to use "historical accuracy" as a shield to hide behind when really they just don't want women in the game.

Now am I saying that ALL the people complaining fall under that category? Of course not. But there are ALOT of them and THOSE are the people that DICE is making fun of. "Fans" that post such gems as these for example...










Notice how they all have plenty of upvotes as well despite their content. So you trying to insinuate that DICE is trying to mock their fans doesn't hold water. They are specifically mocking those kinds of people. So no those are not valid complaints.


Pushing for unauthentic clothing/customization (katanas, prosthetic, bright blue face paints and shabby trench coats)

Whoa WHOA WHOA WHOA You are telling me that there is non-regulation weaponry in MY Battlefield game? Well now they have gone too far!!!


I mean I never in all my years would have thought DICE would be so brazen as to put such things into their game!


Oh wait they had a Bipod knife in BF4




Well okay yeah they had a bipod knife, but its not like they ever had any other joke weapons in their games!


Oh wait they had hidden wine bottles in BF1




Okay fine they had joke weapons, but we never got fucking swords before!!!


Oh wait....




Battlefield has ALWAYS had a crazy amount of weird and unorthodox weapons in their game going back over 10 years so you and others suddenly deciding that NOW its time to complain about it as if its never happened before is not gonna work. So just fucking stop.


I am not even going to get into your equally ridiculous "Unauthentic clothing" complaint. All I will say is that its a fucking video game that people play online and DICE needed to find a way to to make money off of Micro's so BOOM. Character customization. It took me a whopping 30secs to realize thats what they were doing.


All that tweet tells me is that they are gonna be just authentic enough to make it somewhat believable, but that they still plan on making the game fun.

They succeeded. Not sure what else you want me to say about that.

All that and more which you fully well know, but you are deciding to ignore and instead boil it all down to a disingenuous strawman claim of "Lol they just hate womynz/minorities".

I'm sorry, but the title of the thread is fucking "Genderfield V: The Saga Continues" and there have been sexist comments like the ones I provided above on pretty much every piece of media DICE has released since this game was announced.


So I am really sorry if I don't believe that BS for one second.
 
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Does DICE at any point during the game say the mission is a true story?
Well they said this

Being a Norwegian and knowing my WW2 history, I can say they didnt treat this with much respect. In addition, the real story is far more exciting, and could have opened for much more exciting gameplay. In reality they managed to get the operation done without killing anyone (or even firing a single shot), but that could have gotten VERY different. Would be nice to see this explored from a gameplay perspective. Maybe with the possibility of completing the entire mission by stealth. Would be a welcome change of pace. And far from the Rambo 14 year old girl thing they put in instead.
 
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Well they said this

Being a Norwegian and knowing my WW2 history, I can say they didnt treat this with much respect. In addition, the real story is far more exciting, and could have opened for much more exciting gameplay. In reality they managed to get the operation done without killing anyone, but that could have gotten VERY different. Would be nice to see this explored from a gameplay perspective.
I respect that and I am not saying that I wouldn't support missions like that in the future.
 
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I respect that and I am not saying that I wouldn't support missions like that in the future.
You can say its just a game. But now, many people playing this game believes thats how it happened. And thats just sad. A movie claiming to treat history with great respect would never have gotten away with this.
 
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You can say its just a game. But now, people playing this game believes thats how it happened. And thats just sad. A movie claiming to treat history with great respect would never have gotten away with this.
Well my counterpoint to that is if someone takes something they see in a video game and believe it to be 100% historically accurate then that person is likely not very bright in the first place. Regardless of what the Dev says.
 
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Well my counterpoint to that is if someone takes something they see in a video game and believe it to be 100% historically accurate then that person is likely not very bright in the first place. Regardless of what the Dev says.
You could say the same about books, or movies. There are games that pride themselves on being 100% accurate also, just like documentaries. Its just another medium. That games cant be, is just a narrative thats been hijacked.

So youre saying, if youre not that bright it doesnt matter if you have a skewed perspective of reality? Doesnt seem that inclusive to me. Reality is, this is first exposure to these stories for many people.
 
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Well when you have "fans" flooding Reddit, Youtube, Twitter and various other outlets with sexist and racist bullshit then yeah I would say they have every fucking right to call those people uneducated and mock them. People like that deserve to be mocked. I highly fucking doubt they are trying to mock the average joes that are complaining about turret speed or bombers getting to nuke the team at the beginning of matches. They are mocking the idiots who are throwing tantrums because there are women in their video game and are trying to use "historical accuracy" as a shield to hide behind when really they just don't want women in the game.
While I agree with the rest of your posting and of course, they technically have the right to mock such people, we are talking corporate communication here. It is not just about what is justified on a personal level, but also about which message you send out. If you complain in vague terms about entitled / uneducated fans, you will also insult fans who did not engage in such extreme misogyny as displayed here. That the whole outrage about hitsorical accuracy is more indicative of people being ignorant about how extremely unrealistic and romanticising world war shooters were before already, treating history more like a loose inspiration than something to display faithfully, I absolutely do not want to contest. But insulting your (potential) customers is rarely a good idea.
 
May 22, 2018
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While I agree with the rest of your posting and of course, they technically have the right to mock such people, we are talking corporate communication here. It is not just about what is justified on a personal level, but also about which message you send out. If you complain in vague terms about entitled / uneducated fans, you will also insult fans who did not engage in such extreme misogyny as displayed here. That the whole outrage about hitsorical accuracy is more indicative of people being ignorant about how extremely unrealistic and romanticising world war shooters were before already, treating history more like a loose inspiration than something to display faithfully, I absolutely do not want to contest. But insulting your (potential) customers is rarely a good idea.
I agree that its a bad idea in most cases, but I feel like when your "fans" are openly being sexist assholes for all the world to see I think it important to distance yourselves from them.
 
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Okay so they were still racist, but just.....not AS racist as the game depicts? Well I am so glad the 1930's and 40's racists have you to look out for them man otherwise people might think there was racism in the 30's AND 40's. But that would just be silly right? Seriously though this is such a weird nitpick to make. Its 1940's Europe. I am sure there was plenty of racism to go around and you trying to complain about them being too racist instead of the right amount of racist is just absurd. There are better hills to die on my firend.
Some examples that are being referring to: America segregated their soldiers, France did not. Some white commanders died protecting black soldiers, and were killed because they dared to have blacks in their units. France went along with removing black soldiers from a victory parade, but only because America requested it. All of this is either omitted by the game, or completely misrepresented. Black people are also presented as being used for cannon fodder by tossing them into the war without training, which also isn't true. Black people are also presented as the only ones doing physical labor, which also isn't true.

It all makes the French look worse than they were, which was actually very progressive for that time. So if there was plenty of racism to go around in the 1940s, and I'm sure there was, why did Dice make the French look worse than they were? Why was that needed? Why dishonor people who fought and died along side each other despite race. If anything, they should shit on 1940s America race issues, and praise the French for being better than that.
 
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Did you not see my post above where I posted examples? Or look at the comments on any of their Youtube trailers?
Cherry picking out of millions of comments, ofcourse youre gonna see examples like this and that goes both ways. You calling people assholes is just as bad. Many of these comments are just a reaction/humor to shoehorning in a political agenda...how hard is this to understand really??

How would some people react if we start removing women from key historical events in an AAA game, and put in white men instead. That would not go over well, and you know it. And it shouldnt, because its just as bad.
 
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Those are called jokes. Humor, how does it work?
Oh okay so you are gonna play "lol its just jokes bruh" card lol



Why am I not surprised lol

Cherry picking out of millions of comments, ofcourse youre gonna see examples like this and that goes both ways. You calling people assholes is just as bad.
I am calling sexists assholes.



Because they are assholes.
 
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Those are called jokes. Humor, how does it work?
The jokes build upon the premise that it is an absurd situation to have female soldiers in a world war themed shooter game. The joke are low-effort jabs at menstruation and sexual organs, so I think this is closer to trolling than commedy. Jokes can exhibit misogyny and I think these postings are at least good indicators for it.
 
May 22, 2018
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The jokes build upon the premise that it is an absurd situation to have female soldiers in a world war themed shooter game. The joke are low-effort jabs at menstruation and sexual organs, so I think this is closer to trolling than commedy. Jokes can exhibit misogyny and I think these postings are at least good indicators for it.
Exactly.
 
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Also I will say what I said earlier again. Battlefield has NEVER been about historical accuracy or realism. That's never been it's goal. Trying to pretend like that matters now is ridiculous.
What are you talking about? I've been playing Battlefield since 1942 and the game always boasted its somewhat historical authenticity. It's always been a game designed to cater to an audience that is interested in historical battles, military and conflict. This is evidenced by the fact that most popular mods for BF 1942 (yes, the game was modding friendly and allowed for private servers) were mods that were focused on the historical accuracy of the base game, like Forgotten Hope and Battlegroup42. The one notable exception was BF 2142 and the BF 1942 expansion "Secret Weapons of WWII" which was less favorably received due to its "Hollywood style exaggerations".

Here's one of the designers of BF 1942, Ola Holmdahl:

Ola Holmdahl: "As a previous designer on BF1942: Battlefield was always designed as an action romp and not as any sort of simulator. BF was basically a push to better structure Codename Eagle using theme and game design, plus a new engine. Historical aspect was spice, not essence or law."

Someone posted: "If it's an action romp, why not design it as alternate history? Why focus on historical locations, accurate weapons, vehicles, and period of time?"

Then in response: "First of: why not use alternative history as setting. Codename Eagle used alternative history (WWI) setting: 1) it didn't do well and 2) it was the ambition of the game concept originator, lead programmer Johan Persson, to make a 3D WWII action game with infantry and vehicles."

"Second: historical accuracy as ambition. For BF1942 (I can't speak for BF2, 3, 4, 2142 or 1) I researched and selected every weapon, vehicle, battleground. It was used as spice: a nice extra, and never allowed to get in the way of the concept. We had long discussions about this."

"There's no-one with more authority than me when it comes to how the WWII theme was applied to BF1942 - the first Battlefield game. Visual realism (accurate tanks, guns) - yes. Conceptual realism to some extent -combined arms warfare was the macro theme, like WWII. Historical? No."
While nobody expects complete historical accuracy in an action focused game, historical authenticity still played a major role in the development of these games. It's what made BF 1942 so much more successful than its predecessor Codename Eagle. There are lots of historical inaccuracies in the original game, especially in relation to weapon usage, but the visual realism and believable setting still played a huge part in the development and success of these games. It's the added historical "spice" that made these games so popular. BF owes its success to that "spice".

The reason why they didn't go for an "alternate history setting" is because they knew from experience, that these games are less popular with their audience. This clearly shows that history is important for a lot of BF players. Unfortunately DICE wanted to have it both ways: Boast the historical authenticity of its games in order to please their core audience, while catering to the militant social justice crowd that favors political correctness over historical facts. Quite evidently, they ended up pleasing no one.

And then, there's also this:



So don't come waltzing in here claiming that historical authenticity never mattered for Battlefield players. If you ever played BF 1942 you know that what you're saying is not true. In fact, the historical setting combined with the fresh gameplay (for that time) is what attracted the core audience responsible for keeping the game alive since 2002. Unfortunately for them, DICE decided to throw their core audience under the bus in order to tap a new demographic that isn't all that interested in military games anyway.
 
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Now am I saying that ALL the people complaining fall under that category? Of course not. But there are ALOT of them and THOSE are the people that DICE is making fun of. "Fans" that post such gems as these for example...










Notice how they all have plenty of upvotes as well despite their content. So you trying to insinuate that DICE is trying to mock their fans doesn't hold water. They are specifically mocking those kinds of people. So no those are not valid complaints.
Dude, why would anyone ever take these tweets as anything other than really lame jokes?

Who even cares how many upvotes they get? It's just people having a less than 280 character laugh at the games expense.

I swear, nerd interests have just become WAY too serious recently.

I am sure you and I could have a good interesting chat about the rights and wrongs of Battlefield V but if I decided to call it "Genderfield" or "V for Vagina" then I wouldn't expect you to flip out on me.

Dice should mock these people if they want. I think it's kind of petty but OK.

The problem I am seeing here is that Dice are trying to tie any and all criticism to some daft comments on Twitter.

I think there is room for serious discussion about how games could or should portray historical events AND also room for some riffing on the situation with jokes.

I'm not sure why this gets taken SO seriously?
 
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May 22, 2018
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What are you talking about? I've been playing Battlefield since 1942 and the game always boasted its somewhat historical authenticity. It's always been a game designed to cater to an audience that is interested in historical battles, military and conflict. This is evidenced by the fact that most popular mods for BF 1942 (yes, the game was modding friendly and allowed for private servers) were mods that were focused on the historical accuracy of the base game, like Forgotten Hope and Battlegroup42. The one notable exception was BF 2142 and the BF 1942 expansion "Secret Weapons of WWII" which was less favorably received due to its "Hollywood style exaggerations".

Here's one of the designers of BF 1942, Ola Holmdahl:



While nobody expects complete historical accuracy in an action focused game, historical authenticity still played a major role in the development of these games. It's what made BF 1942 so much more successful than its predecessor Codename Eagle. There are lots of historical inaccuracies in the original game, especially in relation to weapon usage, but the visual realism and believable setting still played a huge part in the development and success of these games. It's the added historical "spice" that made these games so popular. BF owes its success to that "spice".

The reason why they didn't go for an "alternate history setting" is because they knew from experience, that these games are less popular with their audience. This clearly shows that history is important for a lot of BF players. Unfortunately DICE wanted to have it both ways: Boast the historical authenticity of its games in order to please their core audience, while catering to the militant social justice crowd to which political correctness is more important than historical facts. Quite evidently, they ended up pleasing no one.

And then, there's also this:



So don't come waltzing in here claiming that historical authenticity never mattered for Battlefield players. If you ever played BF 1942 you know that what you're saying is not true. In fact, the historical setting combined with the fresh gameplay (for that time) is what attracted the core audience responsible for keeping the game alive since 2002. Unfortunately for them, DICE decided to throw their core audience under the bus in order to tap a new demographic that isn't all that interested in military games anyway.
People keep using that tweet like it means something and that its some golden gun against criticism and I already addressed it in a previous post.


"So don't come waltzing in here" and start throwing stones until you at least bother reading everything I have already said.
 
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The jokes build upon the premise that it is an absurd situation to have female soldiers in a world war themed shooter game. The joke are low-effort jabs at menstruation and sexual organs, so I think this is closer to trolling than commedy. Jokes can exhibit misogyny and I think these postings are at least good indicators for it.
Ofcourse its absurd, have you any clue about how the world looked like back then?? And it just underlines how brave those women that actually participated were. Its like some of you people are completely detached from reality. Theres a reason reality was what it was.
 
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Ofcourse its absurd, have you any clue about how the world looked like back then?? And it just underlines how brave those women that actually participated were. Its like some of you people are completely detached from reality. Theres a reason reality was what it was.
The only people I see detached from reality are the ones getting genuinely upset and throwing tantrums over the fact that women are represented in an online video game in 2018 or that a video game is taking liberties with historical accuracy.
 
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The only people I see detached from reality are the ones getting genuinely upset and throwing tantrums over the fact that women are represented in an online video game in 2018 or that a video game is taking liberties with historical accuracy.
Nobody is throwing tantrums. We are all just having a laugh at their expense.
 
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The only people I see detached from reality are the ones getting genuinely upset and throwing tantrums over the fact that women are represented in an online video game in 2018 or that a video game is taking liberties with historical accuracy.
Ah, the bliss it must be to live a fictionnal world where everything is so simple. Blessed are the simple-minded !
 
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The only people I see detached from reality are the ones getting genuinely upset and throwing tantrums over the fact that women are represented in an online video game in 2018 or that a video game is taking liberties with historical accuracy.
It maybe that they realize, the history some have no problems taking liberties with, is the very reason we are living the lives we are living now. And appreciate the sacrifices being made.
 
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  • Fuz

    Fuz

You don't need to read the entire thread. Hell, just look back 1-3 pages and you will find repeated explanations. Normally people do some basic research before spouting disingenuous posts.
True, but it would be nice to have a complete, detailed, informative recap of the issue on the OP, so people won't think it's about "women in games".
 
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Says the guy who made a thread called "Genderfield V" lol
Gender is neutral, headline is perfectly fitting.
Oh man I am done lol


If all you guys have left are insults and trolling then there is no reason for me to waste my time here. See you all on the Battlefield.
Dont think you will find many from here on the Battlefield, but have fun :messenger_grinning:
 
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