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[Oveja Negra]

Well, for what it's worth, it's easily the most reputable computer mag in Germany.

Thanks for that info.

I wasn't trying to dismiss what they found, but to state that it would be great if a much more known (globally) site states the same because of the exposure it will achieve.

I'm among the ones who think this move by Apple is an imbecility, so my post it has nothing to do with defending them.

The thing is, sadly the average user is much more interested in having the last phone in vogue and he/she doesn't really care about quality or getting the best sound (in this case).

 

[KHarvey16]

Thanks for that info.

I wasn't trying to dismiss what they found, but to state that it would be great if a much more known (globally) site states the same because of the exposure it will achieve.

I'm among the ones who think this move by Apple is an imbecility, so my post it has nothing to do with defending them.

The thing is, sadly the average user is much more interested in having the last phone in vogue and he/she doesn't really care about quality or getting the best sound (in this case).

This is not a measure of practical sound quality. They are numbers, but they don't impact listening.

 

[Duxxy3]

The average Apple idiot will continue buying it anyhow.

 

[Angelus Errare]

What, like more room to put stuff inside the phone that everyone can use, and not just the minority of customers that use aftermarket 3.5mm earphones?

What exactly is this "stuff" they added?

 

[KHarvey16]

The average Apple idiot will continue buying it anyhow.

I don't understand why these kinds of posts are acceptable.

 

[samn]

What exactly is this "stuff" they added?

waterproofing, 2 hours of battery life, optical image stabilisation on the 7, another camera on the 7 plus, bigger taptic engine that does more stuff.

I'll take that over a headphone jack any day. If others don't, fine, but don't make out that this is Apple being evil or trying to screw everyone over or that iPhone 7 customers are all being hoodwinked. Other phones are available if they are more suited to you.

Also to my embarrassment I can't find any source on how many people use earpods despite me thinking I saw a study on this a couple days ago. So disregard that part of my argument if you haven't already

 

[hydrophilic attack]

#shockingnews

waterproofing, 2 hours of battery life, optical image stabilisation on the 7, another camera on the 7 plus, bigger taptic engine that does more stuff.

I'll take that over a headphone jack any day. If others don't, fine, but don't make out that this is Apple being evil or trying to screw everyone over or that iPhone 7 customers are all being hoodwinked. Other phones are available if they are more suited to you.

Also to my embarrassment I can't find any source on how many people use earpods despite me thinking I saw a study on this a couple days ago. So disregard that part of my argument if you haven't already

Manufacturers like Sony and Samsung have done good battery life and waterproof for years WITH headphone jack

I guess excessive courage makes you a worse engineer

 

[Muppet of a Man]

DRM forced low bit rate. If you want full fidelity buy again and listen with lightening enabled headphones!

 

[stan423321]

seriously though, does the thunderbolt connection function as well as 3.5 jack without the adapter, or are there no thunderbolt headphones, yet?

Lightning =/= Thunderbolt =/= FQASA.

Lightning is fully digital so it all depends on position of DAC and their quality. Possibly, a better third-party jack converter is possible, though it's a completely different story whether one will appear.

There are Lightning headphones already but I know nothing about them.

If you really wanted Thunderbolt information and not Lightning then I'm afraid I know nothing.

 

[Jack Scofield]

I don't understand why these kinds of posts are acceptable.

People get angry when customers defend anti-consumer moves by billion dollar corporations.

 

[KHarvey16]

People get angry when customers defend anti-consumer moves by billion dollar corporations.

So misplaced anger justifies insulting people?

 

[Guess Who]

DRM forced low bit rate. If you want full fidelity buy again and listen with lightening enabled headphones!

While I'm as pissed as anyone about the headphone jack removal, I don't really think Apple gives a shit about DRMing headphones. They just want to sell more Beats and $160 AirPods, and/or lock people into Lightning.

 

[LiquidSword]

People get angry when customers defend anti-consumer moves by billion dollar corporations.

No, see you should be thankful to Apple since now Bluetooth headphones will be better! (maybe...at some point)

 

[zoukka]

Anyone who loves music cares.

 

[exmachina64]

Since we're throwing anecdotal evidence at each other over here, I don't know a single iPhone user who uses Apple's earphones. Their cables all broke at some point so they bought dirt cheap replacements. 3,5mm replacements.

Uh, me? The pair that came with my 6s are still fine. I'm fine with them being a cheap, "disposable" pair I use on the go.

 

[samn]

#shockingnews



Manufacturers like Sony and Samsung have done good battery life and waterproof for years WITH headphone jack

I guess excessive courage makes you a worse engineer

Samsung manages some very dense batteries, yes, at the expense of them occasionally exploding.

Fact is you can't add in all that stuff and keep the headphone jack and keep the phone the same size. It's physically impossible. (and I imagine a water resistant jack requires more internal seals = takes up more volume). If the headphone jack appeals to you more than these other features, then fine, don't buy an iPhone. But don't crow on as if people that do buy them are being scammed or that there is no plausible way that its removal might benefit a user.

Anyone who loves music cares.

Can anyone, music lovers and non-lovers alike, discern the difference in a double blind test? If not, then how is this even a story? At least I held my hands up when I made a statement based on dodgy stats.

 

[Operations]

So what's the consensus headphone GAF recommendation for an iPhone 7 owner? The Bose wireless? Any Sennheisser alternative? Wait for lightning versions?

 

[oti]

Uh, me? The pair that came with my 6s are still fine. I'm fine with them being a cheap, "disposable" pair I use on the go.

By that definition I know a lot of people like you. 😄

The people I mean don't have a "cheap, disposable pair" and a good pair. They just have one pair. Which also means that for them this news is super irrelevant of course.

Samsung manages some very dense batteries, yes, at the expense of them occasionally exploding.

Fact is you can't add in all that stuff and keep the headphone jack and keep the phone the same size. It's physically impossible. (and I imagine a water resistant jack requires more internal seals = takes up more volume). If the headphone jack appeals to you more than these other features, then fine, don't buy an iPhone. But don't crow on as if people that do buy them are being scammed or that there is no plausible way that its removal might benefit a user.



Can anyone, music lovers and non-lovers alike, discern the difference in a double blind test? If not, then how is this even a story? At least I held my hands up when I made a statement based on dodgy stats.

Look, if you don't care about the headphone jack that's fine. If you like your new iPhone that's fine too, seems like a very good phone. But the fact that you just take anything for granted Apple tells you is quite something. It's a company. Next you're telling me Apple will remove the jack in their laptops because they want to fit in 10 more minutes of battery life. Because that makes a lot of sense, doesn't it.

To your last point I agree. Look at the ridicule Tidal gets. I don't see (or hear, haha) a difference here.

 

[Duxxy3]

So what's the consensus headphone GAF recommendation for an iPhone 7 owner? The Bose wireless? Any Sennheisser alternative? Wait for lightning versions?

Audeze has been the first to jump on high end lightning jack headphones.

http://www.apple.com/shop/product/HJYQ2VC/A/audeze-sine-on-ear-headphones-with-lightning-cable

http://appleinsider.com/articles/16...agnetic-phones-with-apple-lightning-connector

 

[Izuna]

 

[Uno Venova]

So misplaced anger justifies insulting people?

Apparently, fascinating seeing the anger directed at strangers for not seeing it their way.

 

[Lord Error]

if people cared about audio quality i don't think they'd be streaming and listening to music on their smartphone with earphones. nobody will care.

Let's not defend degraded products because majority don't care.

It's plain false too, iphones, ever simce 5 have had excelent DAC, and the sound through the 3.5mm port was really good. I listen to the phone through quality IEMs, and I was happy with the sound quality from it. It sucks that they've degraded it.

 

[samn]

Look, if you don't care about the headphone jack that's fine. If you like your new iPhone that's fine too, seems like a very good phone. But the fact that you just take anything for granted Apple tells you is quite something. It's a company. Next you're telling me Apple will remove the jack in their laptops because they want to fit in 10 more minutes of battery life. Because that makes a lot of sense, doesn't it.

To your last point I agree. Look at the ridicule Tidal gets. I don't see (or hear, haha) a difference here.

I can't afford the new iPhone.

We know they couldn't have fit all that stuff in based on teardowns.

I don't think they should remove the jack on their laptops.

I am mainly responding to comments that state either 1. this is a significant decrease in quality that's all part of some grand scheme 2. Apple are evil for doing this and it's all part of some big anti-consumer move

I am not saying that the removal of the headphone jack is not an inconvenience for many people.

 

[KHarvey16]

Let's defend degraded products because majority don't care.

It's plain false too, iphones, ever simce 5 have had excelent DAC, and the sound through the 3.5mm port was really good. I listen to the phone through quality IEMs, and I was happy with the sound quality from it. It sucks that they've degraded it.

It won't sound different to you or anyone (at least as far as the dynamic range reduction is concerned).

 

[Kurdel]

4 decibel difference?

lol how is this a news story?

 

[Massa]

So what's the consensus headphone GAF recommendation for an iPhone 7 owner? The Bose wireless? Any Sennheisser alternative? Wait for lightning versions?

Use the dongle. Bluetooth sound sucks and buying a headphone set that only works on iOS devices is ridiculous.

 

[borghe]

Anyone who loves music cares.

not really. anyone who loves music

a) has WAY better options of audio playback than from their phone, and
b) will almost CERTAINLY have additional options to send high fidelity audio out of the 7 to an external pre-amp. obviously not at launch, but it's only a matter of time.

fake edit - actually this shouldn't affect audiophiles at all

http://theroundingsound.com/best-usb-dac-under-200-dollars/

all of those are still compatible with iPhone 7, as is any USB DAC.

the "bu-bu-bu DAC!!!" crowd still doesn't make any sense to me. The DAC inside of the iphone series was never on par with an excellent external DAC. If you are an extreme audiophile, all of the options that previously worked still work just fine. And if you were relying on the DAC inside of the phone (any phone), then stop calling yourself an audiophile as you clearly don't understand what the word means.

 

[inner-G]

Ummm... you know it broke sales records, right?

It isn't the failure you wish it was

 

[Massa]

Ummm... you know it broke sales records, right?

It isn't the failure you wish it was

No it didn't. Apple chose not to disclose its sales numbers so far.

 

[KHarvey16]

No it didn't. Apple chose not to disclose its sales numbers so far.

Carriers did comment, though.

 

[oti]

I can't afford the new iPhone.

We know they couldn't have fit all that stuff in based on teardowns.

I don't think they should remove the jack on their laptops.

Of course they could have done it, by making it slightly bigger for instance. But they didn't. They wanted to get rid of it and they know they have the power to do so. That's ok. That's using their advantages. But it's important for consumers to see through a company's strategic moves like this. You can still like their products, that's not the problem here.

 

[jongkookie]

if people cared about audio quality i don't think they'd be streaming and listening to music on their smartphone with earphones. nobody will care.

This 100%.

I've got expensive audio equipment at home and I do really care about audio quality but if I'm outside of the house, audio quality doesn't mean shit to me.

I'm not gonna carry an external DAC and some expensive headphones just to listen to a 128kbps AAC converted audio file from my iPhone.

I understand why people are mad at Apple for taking out the headphone jack but complaining about audio quality with an iPhone is just gonna fall on deaf ears.

 

[RowdyReverb]

Curiously, while all iPhones (including the 7) sound the same, iPads get a better result with the same adapter. The magazine speculates that the DAC therefore isn't inside the adapter, but the device and the analog signal is transported via Lightning. Which contradicts what I thought I read somewhere, namely that Lightning can't do analog signals. Also, it's a bit weird that an iPhone 6S can do better audio via the 3.5 mm jack than the Lightning adapter if the DA conversion happens on the iPhone.

And of course, this is only the case if you want to use existing "analog" headphones, not Lightning or Bluetooth ones.

I thought I remembered the ability to transmit analog audio as one of the key points when the lightning adapter was first announced and people were concerned about compatibility with their 30-pin accessories

 

[borghe]

No it didn't. Apple chose not to disclose its sales numbers so far.

they outright said they wouldn't disclose numbers due to considerable supply constraints on certain devices (notably Plus models and all Jet Black finishes).

however almost every carrier has already said the phone broke the previous record which was the 6.

so.....

 

[Lord Error]

It won't sound different to you or anyone (at least as far as the dynamic range reduction is concerned).

I'm going by the article saying that the difference should be noticeable even on $100 headphones. That usually means that on quality IEMs it should be very noticeable.

 

[Izayoi]

So what's the consensus headphone GAF recommendation for an iPhone 7 owner? The Bose wireless? Any Sennheisser alternative? Wait for lightning versions?

Get a separate media player with a headphone jack.

The dongle destroys audio quality, and even the best Bluetooth cans aren't as good as mid-range wired sets.

You could look for a lighting DAC, I suppose, but I don't really know much about them.

 

[Gallbaro]

Sadly there is no English version, but here's the German article with the important bits translated:

http://www.heise.de/ct/artikel/iPho...apter-liefert-schlechteren-Sound-3325932.html





Curiously, while all iPhones (including the 7) sound the same, iPads get a better result with the same adapter. The magazine speculates that the DAC therefore isn't inside the adapter, but the device and the analog signal is transported via Lightning. Which contradicts what I thought I read somewhere, namely that Lightning can't do analog signals. Also, it's a bit weird that an iPhone 6S can do better audio via the 3.5 mm jack than the Lightning adapter if the DA conversion happens on the iPhone.

And of course, this is only the case if you want to use existing "analog" headphones, not Lightning or Bluetooth ones.

It is pretty easy to send analog and digital signalling over the same conductors.

if people cared about audio quality i don't think they'd be streaming and listening to music on their smartphone with earphones. nobody will care.

AM radio for life bitch!

 

[Fuchsdh]

Since we're throwing anecdotal evidence at each other over here, I don't know a single iPhone user who uses Apple's earphones. Their cables all broke at some point so they bought dirt cheap replacements. 3,5mm replacements.

Then they'll survive with the adapter, since their dirt cheap headphones won't register any difference.

The DACs in Apple's iOS devices have always been just decent (if you're incredibly nerdy there are apparently certain iPod models that have better DACs, but in aggregate it holds.) If you care that much about audio quality, you aren't using an iPhone in the first place, because it can't do more than 48KHz. This is a non-issue. If you truly care that much about audio quality, you aren't listening on an iPhone in the first place. It's basically concern trolling.

 

[NOLA_Gaffer]

As someone that doesn't participate in "Phone Warz" it's always fascinating to me see people on either side cheering on the apparent failure of a product.

 

[KHarvey16]

I'm going by the article saying that the difference should be noticeable even on $100 headphones. That usually means that on quality IEMs it should be very noticeable.

The article is is just parroting normal audiophile misconceptions about bit depth and audio quality. 5 dB at 24 bits is meaningless to human beings. It's like a light being worse because it's less bright at a frequency invisible to human eyes.

 

[borghe]

Get a separate media player with a headphone jack.

The dongle destroys audio quality, and even the best Bluetooth cans aren't as good as mid-range wired sets.

You could look for a lighting DAC, I suppose, but I don't really know much about them.

as I linked above, there is no "lightning DAC". It's any USB DAC, carrying the same considerations (USB power draw)

 

[Kinyou]

waterproofing, 2 hours of battery life, optical image stabilisation on the 7, another camera on the 7 plus, bigger taptic engine that does more stuff.

I'll take that over a headphone jack any day. If others don't, fine, but don't make out that this is Apple being evil or trying to screw everyone over or that iPhone 7 customers are all being hoodwinked. Other phones are available if they are more suited to you.

Also to my embarrassment I can't find any source on how many people use earpods despite me thinking I saw a study on this a couple days ago. So disregard that part of my argument if you haven't already

Is the taptic engine really so important? Reading some of those teardowns it sounds like the larger engine was the biggest reason for the headphone jack removal.

 

[Izuna]

As someone that doesn't participate in "Phone Warz" it's always fascinating to me see people on either side cheering on the apparent failure of a product.

If there was any statement to take from the launch of the iPhone 7, it would be that the removal of the headphone port isn't something people want. But I wasn't making a statement, I was posting a gif that was relevant to thread subject.

I don't know what Phone Warz are, I use a Windows Phone...

 

[Muzicfreq]

Was there even any physical benefits in the 7 from removing it? Hilarious. Y'all iPhone faithful getting hoodwinked.

they have been since day 1.

 

[Jarmel]

Then they'll survive with the adapter, since their dirt cheap headphones won't register any difference.

The DACs in Apple's iOS devices have always been just decent (if you're incredibly nerdy there are apparently certain iPod models that have better DACs, but in aggregate it holds.) If you care that much about audio quality, you aren't using an iPhone in the first place, because it can't do more than 48KHz. This is a non-issue. If you truly care that much about audio quality, you aren't listening on an iPhone in the first place. It's basically concern trolling.

The DAC in the 6 was notably stellar.

 

[moltonasty]

THANKS APPLE

 

[Glass Shark]

DRM forced low bit rate. If you want full fidelity buy again and listen with lightening enabled headphones!

Don't spread bullshit like this

 

[KHarvey16]

they have been since day 1.

Yeah they're all too dumb to buy the objectively better phone as defined by your own personal subjective criteria.

 

[acheron_xl]

Is the taptic engine really so important? Reading some of those teardowns it sounds like the larger engine was the biggest reason for the headphone jack removal.

It gives the 'click' for the now not-a-button home button. Seems reasonably important for that use.

 

[Fuchsdh]

Is the taptic engine really so important? Reading some of those teardowns it sounds like the larger engine was the biggest reason for the headphone jack removal.

It's larger to replace the physical home button, which improves durability (physical home buttons are apparently one of the big points of failures on the phones) and waterproofing. Presumably at some point they're going to get rid of the home button entirely, if they want to shrink the dimensions of the phone.

Even with the larger taptic engine the phones get better battery life than their predecessors, which breaks Apple's trend of keeping battery life constant.

So like any product, there are some distinct tradeoffs. I'm inclined to believe that people's phones not getting destroyed by an accidental dunk in the pool is worth more to more people than the headphone jack. As much anecdotes as we can throw around, I'm sure Apple knows exactly how many people use 3.5mm headphones, and they seem fine with dropping it (when they debuted the EarPods they mentioned the majority of phone users never used anything besides the bundled earbuds, so it seems likely this is a fringe issue.)