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GFW Radio (97.5 - The Brodeo) 08/27/08

ghst

thanks for the laugh
heroes sounds interesting, but nothing like anything i'd ever want to play. i personally feel that in competitive multilayer, the curve of a players effectiveness should be almost entirely based on developing a players skill rather than granting them new attributes and abilities through any kind of level up/unlock system. the latter being a cheap (in regards to game design), destructive, pale alternative.

take company of heroes for example, i've probably put the hours into that game to compare with many upper level wow players, and the game gives me a rank to signify this. and for every few hours a wow player puts into gaining a level, through battles won or lost and accumulating numerical experience, counted by an in-game ticker - i've put a few hours in coh doing the same, except the experience i have gained is not virtually simulated, its entirely real. like a wow player, it's this experience that sets me apart from those fresh-off-the-install, but its experience i have organically accumulated. i can share, teach, discuss, argue and evaluate this experience with others, something impossible todo with ticker-based virtually simulated experience. its a richer, infinitely more rewarding type of participatory experience. gaining ability for yourself, rather than having it handed to you.

i increasingly feel that the idea of artificial experience is one that the industry should take strides to move away from, and seeing franchises from genres that have previously never been preoccupied which this simulated player growth take to it in an effort to grant depth and longevity to their otherwise shallow game, i see as a troubling sign.

this isnt directed squarely at heroes, i understand dice's angle going into this game which theyve been upfront with from the start. same with mmo's , the nature of these games going back to pen-and-paper, has always used numerical, simulated experience and 'leveling up' at its core. i just feel we have reached a point in the medium where we should be using the technology to create genuine opportunities for depth and player development, rather than what has become the accepted norm of bloated excess with the depth of a spoon and a new lick of paint.
 

dexterslu

Member
madmook said:
What? Is this some other "inside joke" or something?

Its sounds like that community manager Tina.


dude it's chris+tina=christina? totally tina's real name, check out her facebook yo
 

1-D_FTW

Member
ghst said:
heroes sounds interesting, but nothing like anything i'd ever want to play. i personally feel that in competitive multilayer, the curve of a players effectiveness should be almost entirely based on developing a players skill rather than granting them new attributes and abilities through any kind of level up/unlock system. the latter being a cheap (in regards to game design), destructive, pale alternative.

take company of heroes for example, i've probably put the hours into that game to compare with many upper level wow players, and the game gives me a rank to signify this. and for every few hours a wow player puts into gaining a level, through battles won or lost and accumulating numerical experience, counted by an in-game ticker - i've put a few hours in coh doing the same, except the experience i have gained is not virtually simulated, its entirely real. like a wow player, it's this experience that sets me apart from those fresh-off-the-install, but its experience i have organically accumulated. i can share, teach, discuss, argue and evaluate this experience with others, something impossible todo with ticker-based virtually simulated experience. its a richer, infinitely more rewarding type of participatory experience. gaining ability for yourself, rather than having it handed to you.

i increasingly feel that the idea of artificial experience is one that the industry should take strides to move away from, and seeing franchises from genres that have previously never been preoccupied which this simulated player growth take to it in an effort to grant depth and longevity to their otherwise shallow game, i see as a troubling sign.

this isnt directed squarely at heroes, i understand dice's angle going into this game which theyve been upfront with from the start. same with mmo's , the nature of these games going back to pen-and-paper, has always used numerical, simulated experience and 'leveling up' at its core. i just feel we have reached a point in the medium where we should be using the technology to create genuine opportunities for depth and player development, rather than what has become the accepted norm of bloated excess with the depth of a spoon and a new lick of paint.


I'm entirely with you on that one. But I think we're dinosaurs who are in the minority. Seems like it's the future. Hopefully there's never a racing game (with these) that takes off. That's a genre that's momentarily safe.
 

KHarvey16

Member
ghst said:
heroes sounds interesting, but nothing like anything i'd ever want to play. i personally feel that in competitive multilayer, the curve of a players effectiveness should be almost entirely based on developing a players skill rather than granting them new attributes and abilities through any kind of level up/unlock system. the latter being a cheap (in regards to game design), destructive, pale alternative.

take company of heroes for example, i've probably put the hours into that game to compare with many upper level wow players, and the game gives me a rank to signify this. and for every few hours a wow player puts into gaining a level, through battles won or lost and accumulating numerical experience, counted by an in-game ticker - i've put a few hours in coh doing the same, except the experience i have gained is not virtually simulated, its entirely real. like a wow player, it's this experience that sets me apart from those fresh-off-the-install, but its experience i have organically accumulated. i can share, teach, discuss, argue and evaluate this experience with others, something impossible todo with ticker-based virtually simulated experience. its a richer, infinitely more rewarding type of participatory experience. gaining ability for yourself, rather than having it handed to you.

i increasingly feel that the idea of artificial experience is one that the industry should take strides to move away from, and seeing franchises from genres that have previously never been preoccupied which this simulated player growth take to it in an effort to grant depth and longevity to their otherwise shallow game, i see as a troubling sign.

this isnt directed squarely at heroes, i understand dice's angle going into this game which theyve been upfront with from the start. same with mmo's , the nature of these games going back to pen-and-paper, has always used numerical, simulated experience and 'leveling up' at its core. i just feel we have reached a point in the medium where we should be using the technology to create genuine opportunities for depth and player development, rather than what has become the accepted norm of bloated excess with the depth of a spoon and a new lick of paint.

This is why people say, in mmo's and the like, that the "real" game begins at the level cap. Once you acquire all of your abilities and skills handed to you by the game, experience and personal ability takes over and work to separate you from the crowd. I'm not sure why you see the two concepts you talk about as being mutually exclusive.
 

pandaeskimo

Neo Member
Thats what always kept me from MMOs though. I don't want to spend tens of hours (hundreds?) to get to the 'real' game. Unlockables do help in forcing you to try one weapon long enough to get a handle for it. COD4 uses the unlockables for weapons, perks, and map types to ease you into what would otherwise be overwhelming.
 

Broseybrose

Member
SO glad you mentioned Adrian Tomine, Shawn... his comics are pure genius. anyone with a soul will appreciate his work.

the last issue of optic nerve i read was back in 04, maybe? i didnt even know he was still drawing. so thanks for reminding me.
 

Twig

Banned
ghst said:
heroes sounds interesting, but nothing like anything i'd ever want to play. i personally feel that in competitive multilayer, the curve of a players effectiveness should be almost entirely based on developing a players skill rather than granting them new attributes and abilities through any kind of level up/unlock system. the latter being a cheap (in regards to game design), destructive, pale alternative.

take company of heroes for example, i've probably put the hours into that game to compare with many upper level wow players, and the game gives me a rank to signify this. and for every few hours a wow player puts into gaining a level, through battles won or lost and accumulating numerical experience, counted by an in-game ticker - i've put a few hours in coh doing the same, except the experience i have gained is not virtually simulated, its entirely real. like a wow player, it's this experience that sets me apart from those fresh-off-the-install, but its experience i have organically accumulated. i can share, teach, discuss, argue and evaluate this experience with others, something impossible todo with ticker-based virtually simulated experience. its a richer, infinitely more rewarding type of participatory experience. gaining ability for yourself, rather than having it handed to you.

i increasingly feel that the idea of artificial experience is one that the industry should take strides to move away from, and seeing franchises from genres that have previously never been preoccupied which this simulated player growth take to it in an effort to grant depth and longevity to their otherwise shallow game, i see as a troubling sign.

this isnt directed squarely at heroes, i understand dice's angle going into this game which theyve been upfront with from the start. same with mmo's , the nature of these games going back to pen-and-paper, has always used numerical, simulated experience and 'leveling up' at its core. i just feel we have reached a point in the medium where we should be using the technology to create genuine opportunities for depth and player development, rather than what has become the accepted norm of bloated excess with the depth of a spoon and a new lick of paint.
I personally like both types of games. I play and enjoy them both, so I'm happy to try out BF:H when it comes out!

(Actually I think I may have a beta invite somewhere deep in my Gmail inbox.)

female-smoker699.jpg
 

LCfiner

Member
Shawn really sticks with that high pitched nerd voice when talking about that Garth Ennis comic. I thought he was gonna drop it a couple times.

Commitment! :lol :lol
 

JeffGreen

97.5: The Brodeo
sikkinixx said:
Billy Madison right?


And what song is that in the background? It's buggin the hell outta me!

Billy Madison, yes. And the song was ELO's "Telephone Line," which is the same song that's played in the same scene in that movie. :)
 

sikkinixx

Member
JeffGreen said:
Billy Madison, yes. And the song was ELO's "Telephone Line," which is the same song that's played in the same scene in that movie. :)


ahh thanks! :D I was debating between ELO and Supertramp.
 

evlcookie

but ever so delicious
^ There was some warhammer talk on legendary thread a week or two ago, Jeff even mentioned it in the previous GFW thread.
 

witness

Member
Mar_ said:
I know. But I avoid all WoW talk like the plague.

Sucks because they have a really good interview on the today's episode with two of the dev's, its great.

Oh and that video Jeff is BRILLIANT :lol
 

Mar

Member
KHarvey16 said:
So you're interested in Warhammer, but talk about WoW is too much for you to handle? Am I missing something?

I played WoW for a year or so and now hate it. Yet I'm interested in WaR impressions and general news about the title. I really don't want to subject myself to WoW talk. Just because they are both MMOs doesn't mean that I should like of all of them in the genre. It's like saying if I wanted to hear about DOOM4, I have to listen to a podcast dedicated to Unreal Tournament. I don't like UT and wouldn't listen to a show dedicated to it just to hear about a game I am interested in.

It's not actually a big deal. I just thought I'd just agree with someone else in this thread that I'd appreciate some talk on the game. But really in the end, it doesn't really matter.
 

sykoex

Lost all credibility.
Johnkers said:
Jeff is that your daughters review of the latest SIMS expansion?
I caught that too. :lol

So will the live 1up yours be uploaded tomorrow? Or will it actually air live through streaming? I can't wait for the Q&A session. :D
 

aeolist

Banned
I'm very interested in Battlefield Heroes now. So long as all the problems are balance related and the game feels good to play I'll be all over it. I like the idea of a more MMO take on the genre.
 

KHarvey16

Member
Mar_ said:
I played WoW for a year or so and now hate it. Yet I'm interested in WaR impressions and general news about the title. I really don't want to subject myself to WoW talk. Just because they are both MMOs doesn't mean that I should like of all of them in the genre. It's like saying if I wanted to hear about DOOM4, I have to listen to a podcast dedicated to Unreal Tournament. I don't like UT and wouldn't listen to a show dedicated to it just to hear about a game I am interested in.

It's not actually a big deal. I just thought I'd just agree with someone else in this thread that I'd appreciate some talk on the game. But really in the end, it doesn't really matter.

Just trying to understand. You can't be bothered to suffer through the unspeakable agony of listening to someone discuss a game you dislike, and you'd like to request they discuss warhammer again in another segment. I mean hey...you've put forth the effort on your part, why shouldn't they? Right?
 
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