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[SonicAaron]

I don't understand it.

I played it .... and it was the same game but better looking.

Any other devs get slaughtered for never innovating.

 

[Obliterator]

How shouldn't they post losses, if they are still short 3 Million copies at full price?

Because that shows a flaw in their internal management/ budgeting that's exactly the point.

They are the only member of the big 4 posting losses. That shows there are some serious issues on the business and planning side.

A 5 million units game should not be posting losses and if it is you're doing a terrible job of keeping gaming budgets in check

 

[Simo]

Maybe somebody can explain this, but why does Rockstar need Take Two? Every time I even see that they have a publisher like that I think: this is the biggest game brand in the world and doesn't need some middle man to push it.

Am I crazy? Couldn't Rockstar literally purchase an entire new office of people to handle all publishing duties themselves? I must be missing something.

It's not a question of needing them but Take Two wholly owns Rockstar Games since they acquired them in 1998. They're the parent company.

Related but at least RDR2 is still on track for this fall. lol

 

[Dabanton]

I remember some threads on here pre PS360 release saying that GTA was a dying brand.

It really is the ultimate sandbox game. I try to get on every few days and the amount of content is ridiculous and stuff like the race track maker will keep playing even longer.

The legs on this game will run and run.

 

[Pizza]

Gta online has become a whole new game in the last half-year, there's tons of cool shit now. Hopefully the massive install base encourages them to produce more content for it. I'm especially excited that RDR2 is probably going to take some of the lessons r* learned in gta online and make another great multiplayer experience with legs

 

[CREMSteve]

And I still haven't played it!

 

[JasoNsider]

It's not a question of needing them but Take Two wholly owns Rockstar Games since they acquired them in 1998. They're the parent company.

Aha, there it is. That makes total sense. Thanks for the answer.

 

[jmizzal]

Did they say anything interesting in the conf. Call?

 

[Simo]

I remember some threads on here pre PS360 release saying that GTA was a dying brand.

It really is the ultimate sandbox game. I try to get on every few days and the amount of content is ridiculous and stuff like the race track maker will keep playing even longer.

The legs on this game will run and run.

And nobody surpasses Rockstar for open worlds either. GTA Online has really grown from when it first started and the last year and the new content has been great. Some like to piss and moan about the amount of online support but it honestly makes me excited for Red Dead Online and hopeful it receives continual and steady support even 4 years after release.

 

[HonMirin]

Tetris

When you can be played on a calculator, or a watch, projected and played on the side of a building, and have a song made after you... Then you can be the GOAT.

GTA V is not the GOAT.

 

[GlamFM]

Bought it 3 times.

For 360, the remaster for PS4 and finally the PC version.

Great game.

 

[Akai__]

Because that shows a flaw in their internal management/ budgeting that's exactly the point.

They are the only member of the big 4 posting losses. That shows there are some serious issues on the business and planning side.

A 5 million units game should not be posting losses and if it is you're doing a terrible job of keeping gaming budgets in check

Ah you meant it as in "did happen, but shouldn't happen". I honestly thought you were confused for a second. Sorry.

Yeah, I agree that you shouldn't post losses with those numbers.

 

[dracula_x]

This isn't true at all.

Mafia 3 and NBA 2K 17 both sold huge numbers.

Take Two are the only major publisher in the industry consistently posting losses. All while having huge franchises, well selling games, and large digital margins.

I do not understand how it's possible

Weird, indeed. It's hard to explain that.

except Battleborn, it wasn't a bad year for T2 in terms of releases.

I mean I guess but that game has already shipped 5 million copies. It shouldn't be posting losses.

2K have to have some terrible management / budgeting going on internally. EA, Ubisoft, Activision, etc aren't posting losses.

true, most big publishers in the black now.

 

[Anth0ny]

Tetris, Minecraft and Wii Sports are above this iirc.


Thats my GOAT doing GOAT things.

tetris doesn't fucking count

it's just minecraft and wii sports, and GTA V will pass Wii Sports in the next year.

BTW to debunk the Tetris myth, here's the page Wikipedia sources for that 400m number:

GamesBeat: True. What have you been up to lately? Do you have any updates on Tetris and the kind of reach it's found over the years?

Rogers: We have 425 million total paid mobile downloads. That's all just on mobile. We had 35 million on the original Game Boy. Boxed products, I think altogether we sold something like 70 million.

So there you go. It's right up there, but total paid mobile downloads is a whole different ball game imo. We're talking 99 cents or less here.

 

[jambo]

Exactly. Like, I've never played an Assassin's Creed game in my life except for about 1 hour of the first game. But I could tell you where a lot of them are set. I can tell you the names of the assassins. I could tell you the basic plot and talk about how the fanbase has divided over the years on what AC is all about.

I've never played Skyrim, but I know all about the dovahkiin and fus ro dah and about swearing your allegiance to werewolves or vampires and people hoarding mundane items like cheese or skulls.

Think about something like Overwatch. Or Tomb Raider. Or any of these inescapable characters or series that manage to become commonplace house-hold names, but I couldn't tell you the names of two of the three playable characters in GTAV.

I couldn't tell you much about GTA. I've been into video games for 20 years and have been on forums and part of communities for most of that. GTA just doesn't have the presence that much, much smaller games have.

Like, consider how well-known many elements of Pokémon and Uncharted and Halo are. These brands are microscopic on a game to game basis compared to the likes of GTA. But it's not like you see GTA fan art or memes that help build a sense of popularity. GTA just exists in the background and is somehow the hugest brand in gaming.

It just makes me wonder who all these people are, where they are, and how they feel about GTA. More people should own Grand Theft Auto V right now than any game released in the last ten years. But where are all these people?

And just think, League of Legends has 100 million people playing every month.

 

[meerak]

It seems some of you don't know that Rockstar is just one component of Take Two.

Anyways...

Not bad, GTA. See ya when I see ya..

 

[Greatest Ever]

Went to Walmart to go see if SMT IV: Apocalypse was on sale, saw a mom buy GTA for her notably younger-than-adolescent kid. Five years old, maybe.

Bad game though.

 

[Simo]

Did they say anything interesting in the conf. Call?

For Rockstar? They said Red Dead Redemption sold 8.5 million copies in the first year and 15 million copies overall.

-Mentioned that RDR2 is leading their release slate and fall releases and will be released within fiscal 2018. So anytime from now until March 31st 2018.

-Take Two is extremely excited about Red Dead as well as its online component.

-Strong marketing support with social media still being a key factor.

-They wouldn't reveal any further details and some calls actually came in during the investors conference about RDR2 but Take Two stressed that Rockstar themselves will reveal details "in due course".

 

[The Dear Leader]

tetris doesn't fucking count

it's just minecraft and wii sports, and GTA V will pass Wii Sports in the next year.

BTW to debunk the Tetris myth, here's the page Wikipedia sources for that 400m number:



So there you go. It's right up there, but total paid mobile downloads is a whole different ball game imo. We're talking 99 cents or less here.

A copy sold is a copy sold no matter how you spin it, Minecraft has a mobile version that's counted as should Tetris mobile version.

 

[JasoNsider]

I don't understand it.

I played it .... and it was the same game but better looking.

Any other devs get slaughtered for never innovating.

I'm going to make a very uncharacteristic defense of GTA. Personally, I've never liked the 3D iterations of GTA. They always played like dung. And they also felt like stiff, laughably inaccurate facsimiles of our real world. Like in trying to simulate our real world it became extra clear just how much was being missed.

First booted up GTAV on PS4 and nearly couldn't believe almost every moment in that game. It was no longer a distant approximation. It had crossed some minimum threshold of realism and control to feel good. The PS4 release, especially, came with first person view which handled very well for basic locomotion. You can now change where you're moving on a dime, as you'd expect in other FPS games. Driving also felt good.

What's more is that the game isn't just a comical, satirical world any more (though of course it's still up there). The sense of heightened "realness" and re-created real world places really made someone like me enjoy exploring LA from the comfort of my freezing Canadian home. I felt like other games in the series really hinged incredibly hard on the humor and satire, but I played a really huge chunk of hours in this game just walking around as if I was a tourist in LA before even beginning story stuff. And it held up. The amount of little details are just immense. I would have given this top marks even before I touched any missions on this basis alone.

Anyway, wow, that's too many words to basically say: I disagree, with respect. This one game basically converted me into a fan that cannot wait until GTAVI single player lands. I want to be a virtual tourist again.

 

[GraveRobberX]

I still haven't bought it yet...

 

[Psychological Intellect]

how the hell is take two posting losses?

 

[kuYuri]

I'm still not one of those millions for GTAV. Still waiting for a better sale.

 

[Asd202]

Sold more units in 2016 than in 2015.

Nuts

wat

 

[Maxios]

Exactly. Like, I've never played an Assassin's Creed game in my life except for about 1 hour of the first game. But I could tell you where a lot of them are set. I can tell you the names of the assassins. I could tell you the basic plot and talk about how the fanbase has divided over the years on what AC is all about.

I've never played Skyrim, but I know all about the dovahkiin and fus ro dah and about swearing your allegiance to werewolves or vampires and people hoarding mundane items like cheese or skulls.

Think about something like Overwatch. Or Tomb Raider. Or any of these inescapable characters or series that manage to become commonplace house-hold names, but I couldn't tell you the names of two of the three playable characters in GTAV.

I couldn't tell you much about GTA. I've been into video games for 20 years and have been on forums and part of communities for most of that. GTA just doesn't have the presence that much, much smaller games have.

Like, consider how well-known many elements of Pokémon and Uncharted and Halo are. These brands are microscopic on a game to game basis compared to the likes of GTA. But it's not like you see GTA fan art or memes that help build a sense of popularity. GTA just exists in the background and is somehow the hugest brand in gaming.

It just makes me wonder who all these people are, where they are, and how they feel about GTA. More people should own Grand Theft Auto V right now than any game released in the last ten years. But where are all these people?

I think that just boils down to the circles you travel in, or possibly you're seeing quotes from GTA but just not realizing it. Growing up, everyone I knew played and loved GTA and would talk about it on the playground. Before I had even played San Andreas, I already knew about pretty much every character in it and was aware of a lot of the missions. I see memes and quotes from the series on almost every other site I frequent.

I've never seen League of Legends or Skyrim mentioned in a TV show or movie before, but GTA or a GTA-knock off seems to be the go-to. If you mentioned something like FUS RO DAH or jumping into hay piles to my grandmother, for instance, she'd have no idea what you're talking about but she would get a reference to Grand Theft Auto or a wanted rating.

 

[Anth0ny]

A copy sold is a copy sold no matter how you spin it, Minecraft has a mobile version that's counted as should Tetris mobile version.

well then I'm not particularly impressed by tetris' number when you take into account just how many re-releases it's had over the years, on how many platforms and for how cheap it's been sold at

 

[KyanMehwulfe]

I don't understand it.

I played it .... and it was the same game but better looking.

Any other devs get slaughtered for never innovating.

granted, i also wouldn't call it innovative.. instead, i'd say iterative

but it's SP mission production values + customization (e.g. cars) + GTA Online make it a rather transformatively different experience than GTA IV, at least for players that get into it and enjoy the core 'same old, same old' gameplay*

what I mean by that* is if you just play for a few hours and that 'same old same old' gameplay does nothing for you, then the things I listed probably don't make much a difference

but for a lot of folks I guess, the things I do in V on a regular basis, for the most part I wouldn't be able to do the same way in IV. it's very much a different game for me.

 

[Kill3r7]

They are up Year over Year though. Trending in the right direction again. It's mostly Gearbox's mighty failures that dragged things down so badly.

Take Two funds way too many losing projects. They should be far more profitable given some of their AAA portfolio.

 

[Raven117]

Holy shit.

That's incredible.

 

[Mifune]

I'm going to make a very uncharacteristic defense of GTA. Personally, I've never liked the 3D iterations of GTA. They always played like dung. And they also felt like stiff, laughably inaccurate facsimiles of our real world. Like in trying to simulate our real world it became extra clear just how much was being missed.

First booted up GTAV on PS4 and nearly couldn't believe almost every moment in that game. It was no longer a distant approximation. It had crossed some minimum threshold of realism and control to feel good. The PS4 release, especially, came with first person view which handled very well for basic locomotion. You can now change where you're moving on a dime, as you'd expect in other FPS games. Driving also felt good.

What's more is that the game isn't just a comical, satirical world any more (though of course it's still up there). The sense of heightened "realness" and re-created real world places really made someone like me enjoy exploring LA from the comfort of my freezing Canadian home. I felt like other games in the series really hinged incredibly hard on the humor and satire, but I played a really huge chunk of hours in this game just walking around as if I was a tourist in LA before even beginning story stuff. And it held up. The amount of little details are just immense. I would have given this top marks even before I touched any missions on this basis alone.

Anyway, wow, that's too many words to basically say: I disagree, with respect. This one game basically converted me into a fan that cannot wait until GTAVI single player lands. I want to be a virtual tourist again.

Great post.

And yeah, it's a fantastic game that puts to shame pretty much every other open worlder, in my opinion. Whenever I fire it up I see some new wrinkle or mechanic that feels like it teleported in from the PS5 era.

 

[Maxios]

I'm going to make a very uncharacteristic defense of GTA. Personally, I've never liked the 3D iterations of GTA. They always played like dung. And they also felt like stiff, laughably inaccurate facsimiles of our real world. Like in trying to simulate our real world it became extra clear just how much was being missed.

First booted up GTAV on PS4 and nearly couldn't believe almost every moment in that game. It was no longer a distant approximation. It had crossed some minimum threshold of realism and control to feel good. The PS4 release, especially, came with first person view which handled very well for basic locomotion. You can now change where you're moving on a dime, as you'd expect in other FPS games. Driving also felt good.

What's more is that the game isn't just a comical, satirical world any more (though of course it's still up there). The sense of heightened "realness" and re-created real world places really made someone like me enjoy exploring LA from the comfort of my freezing Canadian home. I felt like other games in the series really hinged incredibly hard on the humor and satire, but I played a really huge chunk of hours in this game just walking around as if I was a tourist in LA before even beginning story stuff. And it held up. The amount of little details are just immense. I would have given this top marks even before I touched any missions on this basis alone.

Anyway, wow, that's too many words to basically say: I disagree, with respect. This one game basically converted me into a fan that cannot wait until GTAVI single player lands. I want to be a virtual tourist again.

As someone who lives in southern California and visits LA on a regular basis, I absolutely agree with you here. It's like a perfect time capsule of Los Angeles in 2010/2011. For instance, there were stores that shut down in 2012 but when I boot up GTA V I can still find them in the game.

 

[Fafalada]

Just how expensive are their games (development + marketing + ongoing support) that they've been losing money despite their enormous sales?

Let's put it like this - the team for the online-portion of the game alone was many times larger than many well known, established AAA studios.

 

[Lord of Castamere]

Though to be honest that'll probably be released next generation. Speaking of which, it'll be the first generation of consoles that won't have a native GTA game since the series' inception. AAA(A) development is way too long nowadays lol

Nah, GTA VI will release on PS4 and PS5. They're not skipping out on that $$$. 5, or 7 systems depending on how you look at it, is better than 3. 2019/20, on PS4/PsPro/Ps5, Xbox One/Scorpio/Xbox Two, and 2020/21 for PC. Shit if it gets delayed enough it might even launch on all of those and the PSPro-est and Aquarius

 

[mattiewheels]

These sales figures always sounded ludicrous to me, like the whole is far more than the sum of its parts. Even if it was the most incredible GTA they could possibly make I couldn't see sales ever reaching the heights that this one has. Is it really just online/streamer culture that's responsible? Because I never pay attention to that world besides one or two streams.

 

[Succinct Verbosity]

This isn't true at all.

Mafia 3 and NBA 2K 17 both sold huge numbers.

Take Two are the only major publisher in the industry consistently posting losses. All while having huge franchises, well selling games, and large digital margins.

I do not understand how it's possible

Mafia 3 had a huge drop off and certainly didn't recoup the costs of creating an entirely new studio and the troubled development that went alongside it. As for NBA... I can see that, but where is the growth potential outside the United States for that franchise?

 

[NastyBook]

They pulled the trigger on PS4 and XB1 and that shit paid off big time

Yup. The game so nice I bought it twice.

 

[SoldierOfLight]

I loved and finished GTA 3, San Andreas, vice city.
I never played this game and must be the only person who doesn't own it. It's surprisingly the only game I've not been able to find a good deal on. All other new games drop to $25 in a week while this one stays around $35

 

[KyanMehwulfe]

The PS4 release, especially, came with first person view which handled very well for basic locomotion. You can now change where you're moving on a dime, as you'd expect in other FPS games.

There were a few things that help this in third-person view, too...

Normally it still has the weight momentum/inertia, the 'turning circles'

But if you half-press Shoot, it removes that, and you can run, spin, strafe, etc on a dime -- no turning circle.

Then, turn up aiming sensitivity, acceleration, and remove the deadzone, and you can run and spin and strife around super fast right on the spot just like a typical arena FPS

(though granted it also makes precision aiming with the analog controller much harder; I like to actually tweak aiming sensitivity down but acceleration way up, so for small analog movements, it's still a bit slow and precise, but soon as you hold it for a second, it accelerates up and spins quickly).

 

[jtb]

I thought NBA 2k outsold Madden in 2016? How is it so low? I would have assumed it cleared 10 million, easy.

 

[Miggy]

Congrats Rockstar!

 

[Dark Cloud]

That's crazy.

It's still crazy they posted a loss though. It tells you all you need to know about them and it doesn't matter how much GTA sells.

 

[Lord of Castamere]

These sales figures always sounded ludicrous to me, like the whole is far more than the sum of its parts. Even if it was the most incredible GTA they could possibly make I couldn't see sales ever reaching the heights that this one has. Is it really just online/streamer culture that's responsible? Because I never pay attention to that world besides one or two streams.

Turns out collecting vehicles for the 12-25 demographic is almost as addictive as heroin. I'm not really joking either (don't do heroin). It's the same reason Forza releases yearly, and Gran Turismo is one of Sony's top selling franchises. Also Top Gear. There will never be a day in my life where I can personally understand it, but people fucking love cars.

It's an addictive MMO-lite where you are constantly chasing a dragon, that is cars, but cars are added almost monthly and, can be, massively expensive. Plus there's no fast way to make in-game currency, without spending real money so you have to grind to get GTA dollars, but that requires friends who are competent, because the content the game isn't easy to complete. See, they don't want you to make money in game, they want your money. So you get your friends to buy it, which is free marketing for the game. The cycle never ends, because the content never stops coming.

GTA->Online->Cars->Money->Friends->GTA->Online->Cars->Money->Friends etc.

Just wait until the Casino gets added this Fall.

 

[hollomat]

Craziest thing about the GTA V sales to me is that it's sold 5 million just since November 2016. Most games would kill for those sales over their entire lifetime.

It's funny though how GTA V is the only thing keeping take two afloat. Every other franchise of theirs is a bomb or underperforming. Except for NBA.

 

[SolidSnakex]

I'd be astonished if we see a GTAVI this generation to be honest.

It's hard to imagine that Rockstar North would is out an entire generation. Assuming that this doesn't end up being another extended generation, they could probably position this just as they did with GTAV. Where's it's a perfect double dip candidate.

These sales figures always sounded ludicrous to me, like the whole is far more than the sum of its parts. Even if it was the most incredible GTA they could possibly make I couldn't see sales ever reaching the heights that this one has. Is it really just online/streamer culture that's responsible? Because I never pay attention to that world besides one or two streams.

As strange as it may sound because of how big GTA is, a lot of it is just word of mouth. GTAV had already sold more than any previous game in the franchise before it was released on current-gen platforms. So, then you had new people buying those platforms and hearing about it which led to them picking it up when they purchased their consoles. And that's on top of all the people that double dipped. That just all snowballs from there.

 

[Ricky_R]

This isn't true at all.

Mafia 3 and NBA 2K 17 both sold huge numbers.

Take Two are the only major publisher in the industry consistently posting losses. All while having huge franchises, well selling games, and large digital margins.

I do not understand how it's possible

Probably a nasty overhead, among a few other things.

 

[Certinty]

That's insane.

Saying that it's the greatest game I've ever played so is completely well deserved in my eyes.

 

[Kralamoonard]

Hmm why do you think this gen won't get a new GTA? Rockstar aren't gonna pass on more than 140M (by than) users, they will release GTA6 towards the end of this gen and will basically do the same trick as GTA5 with next gen remasters (at 4K ) and a PC release later on, it's the only way for them to reach such numbers again, no way they're gonna skip his gen and release it on a new platform with barely any users on it.

Nah, GTA VI will release on PS4 and PS5. They're not skipping out on that $$$. 5, or 7 systems depending on how you look at it, is better than 3. 2019/20, on PS4/PsPro/Ps5, Xbox One/Scorpio/Xbox Two, and 2020/21 for PC. Shit if it gets delayed enough it might even launch on all of those and the PSPro-est and Aquarius

Sorry guys, I should have clarified. What I meant it'll be the first time where a non-cross gen GTA game will not exist on consoles (e.g. unlike GTAIV, or GTA San Andreas).

Of course this is because of the longer dev cycles, and yes, you guys are right, there'll be a possibility where it'll be like GTAV and have a cross gen release, but what I meant was the above

 

[Quintin DM]

Fuck man that is absolutely insane.

 

[Lord of Castamere]

This isn't true at all.

Mafia 3 and NBA 2K 17 both sold huge numbers.

Take Two are the only major publisher in the industry consistently posting losses. All while having huge franchises, well selling games, and large digital margins.

I do not understand how it's possible

They just spent 250 mil on a company. If that's included in the figure, then it's not really a loss, as the money was put back into the company. I'd assume, at least.

Maybe I'm off here, but I'd rather have a minor "loss" going into a fiscal call versus a major profit, because in the profits case, I'd then have to explain what I'm going to do with the 210 mil gain that's just sitting there. Wherein here, the loss is clearly defined.

 

[plainr_]

Crazy numbers.

I'm responsible for 3 copies. PS3, PS4, and PC. Actually twice for PS3 since I switched to digital.

This is same for at least two of my other friends.