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Hillary Clinton Is Getting Surprisingly Little Extra Lift From Blacks and Hispanics
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Yes. There are dozens of polls from the last month with the "cross-tabs", i.e. demographic information. Yes, Hispanic people and Latinos have telephones and respond to polls.
wumster3000
Member
Yeah she's been absolutely terrible lately. She has actually turned me off. I can tell you one thing, she's no Obama. Not by a long shot. We kept telling people to not take Trump lightly. They have and now she has a great chance at losing this election. I hope not, but let's stop kidding ourselves.
Lol
Great chance at losing? All aggregates have her above 60 percent chance of winning, except for 538 which I suppose who has her at 59.4 percent. Let me know when "great chance of losing" is apparently less than half.
By the way, what do you know about the electoral college?
wumster3000
Member
More than the average person. I'm no political scientist but I made an A in Statistics in college and it doesn't take a scientist to know that those stats are falling.
So where are these 'average person' vs Trump statistics from the race that you are using to compare Hillary to?
An A in Statistics in college doesn't give you the data you have to compare the 'average person' to Hillary Clinton, neither does it help you know anything about the electoral college. So I ask again, what do you know about the electoral college?
kame-sennin
Member
Ok, so I was trying to respond in detail, but your post is just kind of blah. Here's the thing; you are really really really condescending (the avatar ain't helping). No one is making an appeal to emotions and no one is exploiting anything (kind of gross of you to say that in this context). I am just a person of color who is genuinely dismayed at seeing another person of color be so comfortable supporting racist politicians. Like, she said something really racist and you're more upset that people are still using it in political debates.
Also, my argument had nothing to do with the election. Not everyone feels that everything has to funnel back into a tactical debate on how to beat the republicans. As for Clinton's record, just read Michelle Alexander. It's a nightmare.
A woman elected is also historic.
Trump elected would also lead to a historical disaster.
googleplex
Member
Nope! You calling Hillary Clinton a racist is nonsense and Fucking garbage of the highest order no matter how many marches you participated in or how many times you've been arrested.
Your statement has no bases in objective reality. Peddle you "blacks supporting a racist" bullshit somewhere else.
Underrated comment.
Aaronology
Member
Michelle Alexander is a very intelligent black woman whose opinions I largely agree with and respect even when I do not. I recognize there are quite a few prominent black thinkers, from Alexander to Ta-Nehisi Coates to Eddie S. Glaude, Jr who reject this cycle's Democratic ticket and that's completely fine. As we often remind others, black people are not a monolith. I do not need to defer to the opinions of Michelle Alexander, et al. concerning this election or specifically on Hillary Clinton's record. I do my own homework, and my stances are aligned with the results I want to see this November and onward. Their viewpoints are objectively on the fringe anyway, and if we are going to engage in appealing to authority allow me to counter cite this popular, well known and intelligent as fuck black dude who thinks Clinton's presidency is our best shot at moving the country forward.
Yeah, kame, I can be condescending as hell. It's a personality flaw I am not always successful in keeping in check, and it embarasses me a little to be honest. I don't mind you calling me out on that score because you aren't wrong and it's a reminder to try harder, but that criticism is a little hollow coming from someone who just attempted to shame me for defending Clinton. I need to learn to love myself, you said? You'll have to forgive me for getting a little sassy in response to that nonsense.
Ultimately, "I am just a person of color who is genuinely dismayed at seeing another person of color" unable to recognize what is at stake this election cycle. A candidate who despises us more openly than any POTUS nominee in modern American history is riding to the White House in a carriage drawn by white supremacy and you're more focused on some weak ass bullshit from 1996. I detailed exactly why I believe the superpredator remark is not indicative of any deep seated racism within Hillary Clinton, and instead of editing out the meat of my reply you could actually respond to it if you're going to keep bringing this up.
And I am sorry if my avatar bothers you.
Monocle
Member
Substance versus Trump's empty braggadocio, decades of political experience against his messy business career and utter lack of knowledge and skills to lead a country, and patriotic optimism to counter Trump's extreme pessimism and me-not-we attitude.
Also: not being a frothing bigot comes up from time to time.
A european strugglewich could win this election, i feel.
Baraka in the White House
2-Terms of Kombat
No energy/charisma, which is even more obvious coming off the heels of Obama's presidency. Doesn't help that Trump is a loudmouth buffoon either, which many people love.
Remember folks, this is the US Presidency. Not American Idol.
A Human Becoming
More than a Member
WaPo posted demographics for earlier in the month that showed her having an 80% advantage with AA (Obama got 86%) and 38% with Hispanics (Obama was 41%). Her Hispanic support was down from 55% in June. Her Hispanic support advantage being below Obama is a head scratcher. I know Hispanic is a broad term, but Trump has been racist in other ways because calling Mexicans rapist, drug dealers and criminals.Do we ever get to see the demographics for polls? I feel like I haven't seen a poll of likely hispanic or african american voters in a while, yet all the polls are spelling doom for Clinton and the country.
Okay, but what populist policy(ies) is she really spearheading that get voters young and old inspired... INSPIRED... not begrudgingly obligated to come out and vote on election day?
Monocle
Member
Nothing comes to mind, lol. Which I realize is a problem.
Unfortunately she is a nose-to-the-grindstone intellectual policy wonk, which is a very unsexy thing on TV. She's not gifted with natural charisma, but she is very much the kind of person who'd be an effective if not exactly inspiring leader.
teruterubozu
Member
Hillary can be inspiring like It Takes a Village and her healthcare initiatives, but she hasn't had that kind of fire lately.
Aaronology
Member
Learn more about Hillarys vision for America.
https://www.hillaryclinton.com/issues/
What HRC's bid for the White House stands for is data readily available to anyone with an interest in being informed. Clinton has laid out (and in some cases, been nudged into) the most progressive platform in the Party's history, and has been tirelessly on the circuit getting Americans on board since the DNC. She is not running a "Never Trump" based campaign, and from the convention onward the Democratic Party has been intent on setting the narrative of positivity and what she brings to America in this election.
teruterubozu
Member
Obviously they mean something for the regular Joe. Like a Hope & Change catchphrase. Studying isn't America's strong suit.
Yeah she's obviously campaigning on a lot of issues... But I feel like there's no big theme to her candidacy that sticks in people's heads and gets them excited. For Trump there's stuff like "Build the wall!!!11", which is obviously dumb as hell... But he's successfully captured the narrative that if you're concerned about Islamic terrorism and illegal immigration, you should vote Trump. For Hillary it's more like... If you care about liberal values and dislike Trump, vote for Hillary. Which is something, but it doesn't really get anyone 'pumped'. I suppose presidential elections shouldn't be about making people pumped, it's not American Idol, but that's the way it is.
crackhead_bob
Member
I never understood the mentality that if our candidate is unlikable, that it's somehow better to vote for a fascist, or one who kowtows to a base with fascist tendencies.
Call me an asshole, but it's hard to respect anyone who votes along the line of someone who they feel they could drink a beer with. Am I wrong in feeling this way? Am I alone on this, because I always roll my eyes whenever I hear the drinking buddy barometer bandied about, as if it were a respectable method to base fact on.
Call me an asshole, but it's hard to respect anyone who votes along the line of someone who they feel they could drink a beer with. Am I wrong in feeling this way? Am I alone on this, because I always roll my eyes whenever I hear the drinking buddy barometer bandied about, as if it were a respectable method to base fact on.
YourMaster
Member
Please tell me in one short sentence what the key issue of her campaign is.
Vicetrailia
Member
Did Obama have one in 08? Was it healthcare reform?
excelsiorlef
Member
shinra-bansho
Member
This is a really weird query to me.
Why would you want to be able to boil down someone running for a multifaceted role leading the world's largest economy and most powerful military, where basically every single day will be some new crisis or challenge, to a single key issue for their campaign in a short sentence?
It's not a short sentence job.
Unless you mean like what's her piffle campaign slogan, in which case "Stronger Together."
Angelus Errare
Banned
You have to remember the average American doesn't care about actual issues or policies. 95% of the time when someone asks what a candidate is campaigning on, they're asking "what soundbyte/catchphrase/words of inspiration/slogan is that candidate using that will make me vote for them."
America cares more about showmanship than actual policies or track record on said policies. This is the reason people worship Ronald Reagan, a man who really was a horrible person and President. But he's top 3 if not number 1 because....he made people feel good to be American again (whatever the fuck that means). Trump taps into that same remedial subset of America with his empty statements like "We don't win anymore" and the inverse "We're going to win a lot!"
I realize you largely know all of this, I just wanted to type it out anyway.
crackhead_bob
Member
^This.
It's crazy that sloganeering over details is seen as a detriment. The world faces very complex challenges that can't be summed up in 30 second sound bites. I'm confidant that Clinton will be able to run circles around Trump during the debates, but unless she can belt out clever catch phrases that become repeatable memes, the press will brand her as being dull and uninspired.
Change, hope, that kind of thing. That's more vague than building a wall, sure, but there was a strong sense that Obama was going to be a different sort of president that was really going to shake things up. Does anyone think that of Hillary?
Monocle
Member
I think she's going to save America from a likely descent into fascism, but sadly her campaign can't just come out and say that.
Her charisma problem would make that a hard sell anyway, which is a sad commentary on a race where an eminently polished career politician opposes a blustering cartoon character who slams out several campaign-ending gaffes per week but somehow keeps right on truckin'.
Yeah but that's more about her opponent. Obama's selling point wasn't "We have to stop a McCain presidency!!", or maybe it was a little after Palin was picked as VP.
D
Deleted member 80556
Unconfirmed Member
Really? If elevator pitches for projects are already bad, this is horrible, considering the decision that shape the lives of millions of people is in the balance. The worst of all is that is not an exaggeration.
Do people really want to be willingly ignorant on candidate's positions?
Monocle
Member
True enough. It's such a mismatched contest though.
It's like you've got to choose a birth control method, and your options are an overpriced generic pill or a PURPLE SPOTTED DICKTOPUS WITH EIGHT SQUIGGLY DICKTACLES.
In your heart you know there's only one choice that makes sense, but dammit, responsibility sucks, and who doesn't want to get stuffed arseways by a squiggly wiggly dicktopus if we're honest?
Actually I feel like Obama was pretty clearly about not being Bush. He had policies - Clinton has policies too - but these were largely presented as a contrast with Bush. It was a big deal that he had opposed the invasion of Iraq, for example. The financial crisis was of course a big deal, and making sure Bush was blamed for that was a big deal. There was a lot about rebuilding America's reputation in the world, which was about how Bush had destroyed it. "Change" was in large part about change from Bush. And there were lots of attempts to argue that McCain would be continuing the Bush administration's policies.
Then he ran again on a platform of more of the same.
Now Clinton's running for Obama's third term.
I don't think it's very surprising that a candidate running when the other party holds the presidency talks a lot more about how they're going to do radically different things whereas candidates running for a second term or to succeed a popular president of their own party mostly just promise more of the same.
From my experience, few people around my age group(mid twenties) do not have the patience or desire to read policy and understand what it's trying to do relative to the system it's looking to change/or improve. Instead they get their news from Facebook/Twitter/Instagram. Can only fit so much into memes to post. That and I think this election more so than the last two spirals into the dirt really quickly.
YourMaster
Member
It's not about the job, it's about the election. Just compare how many people will likely vote for each candidate, and compare their qualifications and plans for the job at hand. Notice there's a large discrepancy there that can be explained by having the best person for the job not being as effective in campaigning as the other one.
Personally, not me no. But people don't read two policy programs and weigh which one they believe is the most realistic and net-positive. They get a gut feeling about the candidates, support that and come up with arguments to support the person they've chosen. There are several aspects that determine their gut feeling - like the looks of the candidate and the group of people in support of that candidate - but a single or a few clear and simple plans of what they will focus on in their four years will really help people make their decision. 'Build a wall to keep Mexicans out' is such a plan. 'Making health care and universities free' is such a plan.
Just look at when journalists ask people on the street who they'll vote for and why. They will be able to give a one sentence answer no problem. If Hillary wants to win, it certainly wouldn't hurt her if she'd had a key focus point on what she intends to accomplish in her next few years. 'Making sure Trump isn't elected' is not going to convince anybody to vote for her who wasn't doing so already.
It's not about she being different. You can easily frame it as 'In the last 8 years we've accomplished x, no in the next 4 years why want to get y done.' I don't think either Obama or Hillary is saying they are done and all the country needs now is maintenance and not letting it be fucked up again by the other side. So focus on what is now highest on the todo list.
Not up to me to tell any group of people who's in their best interests, but I will say this, as unrealistic as it was to expect Obama to be able to do many positive things for African Americans under this congress, it is not unrealistic to fret about how horribly Trump and a republican congress could fuck things up for that community and many others in record time.
Look at North Carolina and multiply that by a Trump tilted Supreme Court.
I can imagine horrors.
Look at North Carolina and multiply that by a Trump tilted Supreme Court.
I can imagine horrors.
BoosterDuck
Banned
Every Hillary thread is always the same 'SHE'S A CROOK' 'THEY'RE BOTH THE SAME' 'I CAN'T HAVE A BEER WITH HER' drive-by's. Goddamn, Fox News is the real deal when it comes to propaganda.
I wish it was November 9th already so we can actually start arguing on her policies.
I wish it was November 9th already so we can actually start arguing on her policies.
Irony is, this is a "complaining about other people's posts" drive-by that's just as lacking in substance.
LOL, I guess everyone else's poo stinks. It's human nature.
BoosterDuck
Banned
I already posted in this thread. And I'm not driving by, I'm still here.
so go ahead tell me she's a crook or you don't trust her whatever blah blah blah
My post on this page is actually my first in this thread. I do think she's corrupt and there were troubling aspects of her behavior as secretary of state. Anyway, I've said that already in the past and won't rehash. What shall happen will happen and I'm kind of ready for it to be over now myself
Aaronology
Member
Who are you voting for this November, Diffense?
Ash Sparrow
Banned
500 people have been killed in my city, over 3000 shot under democratic rule. Honestly asking could things be much worst under Trump? And how so
exmachina64
Banned
Are you black? Trump considers you sub-human and there's a very real chance you could be swept up in his internment camps.
Trump's not going to stop at deporting illegal immigrants. He believes racial profiling works and that white police officers could stop the "thug" gun problem within twenty-four hours after he takes office. The people he can't outright kill or deport are going to be rounded up and sent to internment camps.
If Republicans maintain their majorities in Congress, in state legislatures, and governorships, you can kiss the Voting Rights Act, the Civil Rights Act, same-sex marriage, rights for women, freedom of religion, freedom of speech, and freedom of assembly goodbye.
Is Hillary the best candidate for which we could hope? No.
Is the alternative a significant threat to roughly forty percent of the country? Yes.
If Trump isn't defeated, if the Democrats can't make inroads in Congress and across the country, Republicans will control the courts and elected offices for decades.
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